Nice list this year. It would be hard for me to pick which one will be inducted.

Posted by John R.C. on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 02:02am

Los Lobos are a nice surprise. Didn't see that coming.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 02:33am

Just some early thoughts on the 2016 Nominees:

Absolutely shocked how much the shakeup earlier in the summer really mattered for the 2016 nominations. All the acts' popularities began in 1970s (Spinners were at their peak popularity in the early/mid 1970s). I'm so very happy Chicago finally appeared on the ballot; they will easily take #1 on the fan vote and thus will probably be inducted this year.

Biggest Shocks:
-Chicago!!!!!! (Hell is freezing over at the Rock Hall and I'm happy)
-Heavy Emphasis on Classic Rock (Chicago, Cheap Trick, Deep Purple, Yes, The Cars, Steve Miller) especially compared to last year's batch of nominees
-No Singer-Songwriters
-No 1960s American Acts
-No British Invasion Acts
-No J. Gelis Band (Almost everyone pegged them to be nominated; I'm stunned by this omission. Maybe Stevie Van Zandt lobbied more for Cheap Trick)
-Surprising 1st-Timers (Chicago, Janet Jackson, The Cars, Steve Miller, Cheap Trick)
-Left-Field Picks (The JB's, Los Lobos)
-No 1st-Ballot Nominees (Smashing Pumpkins?)

2 Biggest Questions: Chaka Khan and Steve Miller
I wonder if Chaka Khan's nomination this year is for her solo work or does that also include her work with Rufus (who were nominated back in 2012)? This needs to clarified by the Rock Hall.

Also, the Rock Hall only lists Steve Miller and NOT the Steve Miller Band. If inducted, is it only Steve Miller and not the bandmates? This seems similar to Stevie Ray Vaughan's nomination last year: how can you induct him without Double Trouble? Steve Miller without his band doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm already calling who will be the top 5 fan votes this year: Chicago, Deep Purple, Yes, Janet Jackson, Nine Inch Nails. I think maybe Steve Miller or Cheap Trick might sneak into the top 5 here.

Also, just looking at the ballot, I don't like N.W.A.'s chances this year. This is such a classic rock heavy ballot that I'm afraid they might get lost in the shuffle. The same goes for Chic.

Posted by Nick on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 02:48am

Well there it is the 2016 Rock Hall nominees! I got some early thoughts on the 2016 Nominees.
For one thing I got 5 right. I am sooo Glad I am right about Chicago. Also Deep Purple, Nine Inch Nails, N.W.A. and Yes. I am so very Glad Deep Purple and Yes are in. I'll predict the Inductees later on. I have a good idea but it's early.
You know what I am disappointed once again that there is No Moody Blues. Ok Philip, I think it was you among others that said 3 Prog acts was Unlikely. The Hall has taken Prog into account with Yes. Since Chris Squire passed it was a fair bet they would be nominated. I will say right off the bat that I predict Yes for Induction. I own a lot of Yes albums. They packed arenas in the 70s almost as Much as Zeppelin. I remember when that was happening.
I am so excited about Chicago being nominated. They were a key prediction also. I will predict them Right Now as an Inductee.

I also think Nine Inch Nails is a fair bet as an Inductee since they are the Only 90s act on the Ballot. I am not an NIN fan at all. I barely know any tunes. It's just that the Hall is slowly taking into account the 90s era. That's half the Class I predict right Now. Again it's early.

Besides the Moody Blues omission there is No J Geils Band. I am more shocked about that. The Moody Blues omission happens all the time even though I always Hope. The J Geils Band though is loved by Van Zant.

As for Chic. They are back once again. They were on my Back up. Zuzu you were right. You were dying to know. I had hoped they Rock Hall would give up. Janet Jackson was on my backup list. A no go on Journey or Bon Jovi. They were both on my Back up too.

There is really no 60s acts. The oldest acts here were popular in the 70s. I am aware that Chicago and Deep Purple formed in the 60s. They were not popular until the 70s. This does not mean that the Zombies, Monkees or Turtles never have a chance. Obviously not this year.

Some surprises for me are the Cars and Steve Miller. I never saw the Cars coming. I had Steve Miller on my list but took them off. I felt it wasn't his year. He was on my list(Steve Miller Band actually} because he was key in the 70s. I loved them a lot as a kid in the Mid 70s.

Totally out of Left field is the Jb's and Los Lobos. I would never ever think of those. Totally surprised on those. It happens every year. I will say that I like the Spinners quite a bit. They were on my list early on a couple months ago. I took them off during my Changes. Pleasantly surprised. A good older R&b choice. Chaka Khan is a decent R&B choice. My Sade choice fell flat. Hey Enig. You'll be on here soon enough. So sorry about Moody Blues Duran Duran ELO and Sade not on here. Hey Yes made it! That's it for Now. We will all chat for sure.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 05:16am

So they nominated Rufus with Chaka Khan in 2012, and now they are nominating Chaka Khan solo. What does this mean for Rufus in the future?

They nominated Steve Winwood in 2003, but wasn't inducted. Traffic is inducted in 2004.

Carole King was nominated as a performer in 1989, but was inducted in the non-performers category in 1990 with Gerry Goffin.

The Steve Miller Band is nominated as Steve Miller. Last year they nominated Stevie Ray Vaughan and then it was changed to Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 05:29am

Here is my predictions on what I think the Hall Of Fame Committee will pick

1. Janet Jackson
2. N.W.A.
3. Chic
4. Deep Purple
5. Yes
6. Nine Inch Nails


Here is My Favorite 6

1. The Cars
2. Steve Miller Band
3. Cheap Trick
4. Nine Inch Nails
5. Janet Jackson
6. Yes

Chicago is my 7th favorite on the list

Posted by Kyle on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 06:09am

LOVE this list! Thoughts soon.

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 06:55am

All I can say it's about fricking time. 5 r&b artist - they really are pushing it. They need to start putting in some folk and country. Maybe they will come through with the Carter Family as early influence.

The picks are almost all 70s and 80s. I am disgusted with one entry but other than that I have to say this is the first time I am happy with a ballot. Ben, I was so hoping you were right about Chic. I am so sick with having them shoved down our throats.

I am happy about Steve Miller. I didn't expect him on there for another couple of years. Steve Miller and Steve Miller Band were used interchangeably so I think there is a good chance that his band will be added.

I love Chaka Khan but I am disappointed about Rufus since I think that Hawk Wolinski is also deserves being inducted. They are right that Chaka has a better chance on her own. It is possible but I don't think they will add Rufus.

Cheap Trick being put on the ballot with Chicago is a back handed slap in the face to Chicago. They should have done the decent thing and held off at least till next year.

If Chaka and Chicago gets in maybe They will do Take Me Back to Chicago. Chaka was on the studio version.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 07:34am

Chicago is at # 1 in the official Rock Hall Fan Poll!!! AND IT WILL STAY THAT WAY!!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 07:35am

Chicago is at # 1 in the official Rock Hall Fan Poll!!! AND IT WILL STAY THAT WAY!!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10.8.15 @ 07:35am


You tell them Roy.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 07:52am

Look at that Chicago made it to the Nominee list. It is well Known that they were one of the Best selling American groups of the 70s. Lots of albums lots of Hits. I am disappointed in my Boys Moody Blues but Chicago is fine enough for Now. They were a key Prediction of mine.

I probably will not predict 3 Prog artists at one time again. It probably was pushing to ask for that. I'll go for one a year. Strong chance for Yes. Enig you're out there somewhere. Next year I will predict more R&B since the Hall pushes that.

So I am confident Chicago will be Inducted. If they are their tunes can likely be 25 or 6 to 4 and Take Me Back to Chicago.

I think you are right Zuzu. They will add the band to Steve Miller like they did last year with Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble. I also agree about Chaka Khan. Chaka has a better chance on her Own. Chaka Khan was more popular on her own. So does she count as a 70s artist or 80s? 80s right?

Cheap Trick is a New Wavish choice. That type of music has been avoided quite a bit.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 08:27am

I said it before, and I'll say it again, aside from a monster future inductee like Pearl Jam, The Cars have the best chance of ANYONE of being inducted. There's nobody else on the snubbed list that hits the sweet spot between classic rock favorites, critical support and artist respect that The Cars happens to do and I'll be downright flabbergasted if they somehow come up short.

It's going to be a big classic rock inductee class...I see The Spinners, Chaka Khan and Janet all falling short along with idiosyncratic nominees like The Smiths (unfortunately), Los Lobos and The J.B.'s. By process of elimination, you're basicaly left with Chic, N.W.A. and NIN up against a hell of a lot of classic rock acts with a good chance at being inducted.

I'd wager right now that five of the six inductees will be from the classic rock group of The Cars, Chicago, Steve Miller, Yes, Cheap Trick and Deep Purple. Chic and NIN will come up a little short while N.W.A. benefits from not having similar competition and becoming the sixth inductee. Gun to my head, I'd say Deep Purple is the one that misses out from the classic rock list once again. The influence is there, but not the catalog of hits that the others seem to have.

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 08:50am

4 of the nominees are from Chicago or have a Chicago connection.

Of course Chicago

Chaka Khan is a Southside girl

Steve Miller was born in WI and raised in TX but he did spend time in the Chicago Blues community to learn

Cheap Trick is from Rockford and one of the band did spend time in the Chicago Blues community

Ben I don't think she was more popular but just more well known on her own with the younger crowd. Rufus was 70s. Chaka solo was 80s. Trivia: Peter Cetera and Chaka Khan did a duet called Feels like Heaven. They were on Arsenio together.

Cheap Trick, Deep Purple, Yes and The Cars have passed up Janet and Steve Miller is closing in on her.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 08:55am

I miss the video the hall did a couple years ago to announce the nominees. I thought it was really cool. I was hoping they would bring that back.
For those who don't remember/didn't see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNMp5_vhd0

Posted by Ry Guy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 08:55am

Also I think I know what happened to Singer/Songwriters this year. There is still fans on the Committee but I think this genre was indirectly affected by the Nom Com change. A lot of those artists are from the 70s. As far as I know it was the Oldest ones let go. Now Follow this. I am sure that Genre will return Next Year perhaps. You see following the Change new guys Tom Morello and Quest Love got more power and influence. Morello I am sure supported Deep Purple. Quest Love with Chic Janet Jackson perhaps, NWA. Then of course the older guys like Wenner and Van Zant along with the other older ones went for Cheap Trick Chicago Jbs and Steve Miller. Just be clear Van Zant probably didn't pick Chicago. Other older Guys.

What happened is because of all those picks and others like the Cars Los Lobos and The Smiths there just wasn't room for A singer/Songwriter. So no picks for Carly Simon Gordon Lightfoot or Harry Nilsson. I am sure next year or thereafter they will get a pick. Tell me what you guys think.

Hey Chicago made it that's Cool! Thumbs Up to Yes.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 08:58am

Casper,

Don't underestimate Chicago and under no circumstances would I consider The Cars a monster. I would consider them 2nd or maybe 3rd tier. They just have support on the Nom Com and with some vocal people.

I wouldn't rule out Chaka just yet. The Cubbies are a bit distracted right now and were probably up all night celebrating. Wait until the post season ends to see what happens with her numbers. Also take a look at the number of artist she has worked with.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:14am

Looks like my Baba Booey / Meg Griffin interpretation was correct, 3 of the 5 Baba Booey mentioned (Chicago, Cheap Trick, NWA) are on. I was also correct in Todd Rundgren, New York Dolls, and Warren Zevon not being on based on the conversation.

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:18am

Who I'd like to see get in:

The Cars
Chic
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson
Steve Miller
N.W.A.

Who I expect to get in:

Cheap Trick
Chicago
Janet Jackson
Steve Miller
N.W.A.
Nine Inch Nails

Posted by Ian on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:20am

Ben,

The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominating Committee had switched the venue from Los Angeles to New York. That was quite a surprise. From this list of nominees, I will be easily voting for: Yes, Deep Purple, Chicago, The Cars and Steve Miller.

I am very disappointed that neither The Moody Blues, or the Electric Light Orchestra, or Duran Duran, or Sade, or Carly Simon were even nominated. I do sincerely appreciate your support of those artists, however.

Who do I think will be inducted?

Nine inch Nails
Yes
Chicago
Steve Miller
The Cars
Chaka Khan


I am surprised to

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:24am

I absolutely LOVE this ballot.

I honestly think this is one of the most interesting (and best) ballots that the Hall has put out in a long time. They basically broke the mold of what many of us have stated the nominees ballot are every year.

With the exception of Los Lobos (talk about a left-field pick), N.W.A., Janet Jackson, the Smiths, and Nine Inch Nails, this list is virtually dominated by "classic rock" and classic R&B." And Janet Jackson.

So many traditional spots for nominees on the Hall were left closed this year.

As Tom Lane alluded, there is no solo singer-songwriter, nor really a blues act (though the Steve Miller Band is borderline blues-rock, especially in their early days).

Also, there was no newly eligible nominee (I was stunned to not see the Smashing Pumpkins, or anyone newly eligible for that matter). I think this if the first class since the 2011 class that didn't feature a newly eligible artist get a nomination. Very surprising.

On the rock side, whereas last year was dominated by alternative rock, this year's is dominated by classic rock.

Chicago, Janet Jackson, the Cars, and the Steve Miller Band are such welcome first time nominees, and with the exception of Janet Jackson, I didn't see any of them coming. I know some here were hoping for Chicago to make the ballot and were putting it over like a real possibility, but I just didn't believe it. Congrats and kudos to Zuzu and Ben, and Roy for believing in Chicago.


I'm also ecstatic to see Deep Purple and Yes return to the ballot.


As for Chaka Khan, I'm happy to see her as well. I ultimately predicted Rufus w/ Chaka Khan, but I did bring up the possibility that they might go with Chaka as a solo artist instead to put more full-fledged female representation on the ballot, plus Chaka was a bigger star on her own than with Rufus. So I'm not surprised they went that route.

Apparently I was wrong on Depeche Mode, as I thought that article in Rolling Stone Magazine would be enough to get them on the ballot, but apparently not. Maybe someone did bring them up, but the Committee decided to go with other artists.


I don't think a single person here predicted the J.B.'s (the one nominee I don't agree with) nor Los Lobos. Those were two left-field picks. I usually say almost every year there's a nominee that fits outside the rock and R&B spectrum. Usually a blues, country, jazz artist, or an artist from another genre. I guess Los Lobos fits that spot.


I just did my first vote (won't be my last for sure), and ultimately I voted for Chicago, Deep Purple, Janet Jackson, N.W.A., and Yes (the Spinners would be my 6th choice).


As to how this group of nominees are gonna go and who ends up getting the official nod, I think it's tough to say. The Hall likes to have a diverse group usually, but they very well may have shot themselves in the foot on that, as they have such a strong field of "classic rock" inductees, that realistically, this class of 6 inductees could very well be the 6 classic rock nominees themselves. I could easily see a class of Chicago, Deep Purple, The Cars, Cheap Trick, yes, and the Steve Miller Band. Maybe that's the idea. To have one class that's "classic-rock" centered and that will make a huge dent in the backlog all in one shot, so they can move on to more current forms of music in the future?

Ultimately, I don't think that will happen. I think Janet Jackson and N.W.A. are shoe-ins at this point. Janet is such an iconic superstar that everyone in any form of music knows and that will more than likely get the votes. Even the older baby-boom era voters will probably vote for her. N.W.A., I also feel will finally get over the hump and make it in. That leaves four more spots. Chaka Khan does have a pretty good amount of critical respect as well as respect from artists in the industry, so I could see her making it. Nine Inch Nails, I actually think might possibly get passed over this year in favor of all the older rock bands. Sure there's really no other alt-rock or 90's rock bands in their way (NIN will crush the Smiths when it comes to the voters, right or wrong), but they've got so many 70's bands in their way, I could see them slipping by again. But then again, maybe not. The 70's bands could receive so many votes that they could cancel some of each other out.

Between Deep Purple, Yes, Chicago, the Cars, Cheap Trick, and the Steve Miller Band, I think that Deep Purple and Cheap Trick probably stand the best chances of induction. All of the more recent younger hard rock inductees of the last 7-8 years are gonna probably all vote for Cheap Trick, and Deep Purple both most likely for their influence on hard rock. I'd say the next two are probably the Cars and Yes, as the Cars also had an influence on younger rock artists, and Yes has become pretty beloved as well. I think Steve Miller comes across as "flat" and won't garner the support compared to other classic rock acts. As for Chicago, they were the most successful of all the bands in this group, but are your Tom Morello's and Dave Grohl's gonna look at their soft rock, sappy 80's period and pass on them? That very well could happen? Then again, I thought that very thing would keep them from getting nominated, and sure enough here they are.

I think one other key thing in regards to the classic rock groups is the fan ballot. It's gonna be a battle that's for sure, as you've got some serious fan favorites among these groups. And every year thus far, whichever band has won the fan ballot has been inducted. I don't see that tradition changing, so if Chicago can hold onto the lead they have now, then they'll pretty much automatically be guaranteed to be inducted.

Los Lobos, the J.B.'s, the Smiths, and the Spinners, to me stand almost no chance in getting induction, especially the first two. The Spinners could slide past everyone as a good old fashioned vocal group which usually get in.


Ultimately, for right now, I'll predict the following 6 artists will be inducted....

The Cars
Cheap Trick
Chicago
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson
N.W.A.


If I had the sole power to decide the class, I would go with


Chicago
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson
N.W.A.
The Spinners
Yes

Posted by Donnie on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:25am

Ben,

The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominating Committee had switched the venue from Los Angeles to New York. That was quite a surprise. From this list of nominees, I will be easily voting for: Yes, Deep Purple, Chicago, The Cars and Steve Miller.

I am very disappointed that neither The Moody Blues, or the Electric Light Orchestra, or Duran Duran, or Sade, or Carly Simon were even nominated. I do sincerely appreciate your support of those artists, however.

Who do I think will be inducted?

Nine inch Nails
Yes
Chicago
Steve Miller
The Cars
Chaka Khan


I am most surprised to see Los Lobos on this list and just who are the J.B.'s.?

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:28am

I guess you could say Chicago takes the singer-songwriter spot!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:44am

Janet Jackson has shot up to second place on the fan ballot, right behind Chicago.


Looks like Mike has the troopers in battle this morning, lol.

Posted by Donnie on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:45am

What a list!

If they somehow got Chicago, Deep Purple, Yes, & The Cars all in in one fell swoop - a LOT of longstanding snubs would be cured and many rock and roll purists would be off their case.

The Smiths, the Spinners, Cheap Trick, Steve Miller (BAND), Janet Jackson, N.W.A., & Chic would all be fine choices as well.

I can see the J.B.'s getting the "Musical Excellence" award this year.

Posted by Steve Z on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:46am

Shame no Joe Cocker given his recent passing.

Just Steve Miller? Not the whole band?

Chic again. Just get it over with.

No one from before the sixties.

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:47am

Forgot to mention

Los Lobos? Aren't they only remembered for their cover of La Bamba?

Good to see majority classic rock.

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:49am

I'd be all for the J.B.'s getting the "Musical Excellence" award, as that's exactly what they should get. They definitely deserve recognition. Just not as a "Performer" inductee. That's probably what will end up happening. Good call Steve.

Posted by Donnie on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:51am

More comments:

NWA is likely due to the film

Cheap Trick would finally get a true power pop band in

The Smiths should get in because of Morrissey's diagnosis

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:52am

My personal five winners from this list"

Yes
Deep Purple
Chicago
Cars
Steve Miller

Unfortunately with the success of "Straight Outta Compton", N.W.A. will most likely get inducted. I keep stressing that rap should have its own Hall of Fame and not interfere with this one. Leave this one for the artists that have been around 30-40+ years.

Posted by danny on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 09:53am

Donnie, she is at the top again. The Jackson family must have hired more pros. Are her numbers going down here?

I'm not worried about it. There is a long way to go. They won't be able to keep up.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:08am

Here's my annual rundown of the nominees, with info on how long they've been eligible and what number nomination this is for them. A number of the nominees have been eligible for some time- especially The Spinners.

* The Cars: 13th year of eligibility; first nomination
* Chaka Khan: 13th year of eligibility; first nomination*
* Cheap Trick: 14th year of eligibility; first nomination
* Chic: 14th year of eligibility; 10th nomination
* Chicago: 22nd year of eligibility; first nomination
* Deep Purple: 23rd year of eligibility; third nomination
* The J.B.'s: 21st year of eligibility; first nomination
* Janet Jackson: Ninth year of eligibility; first nomination
* Los Lobos: 13th year of eligibility; first nomination
* N.W.A: Fourth year of eligibility; fourth nomination
* Nine Inch Nails: Second year of eligibility; second nomination
* The Smiths: Eighth year of eligibility; second nomination
* The Spinners: 30th year of eligibility; third nomination
* Steve Miller: 23rd year of eligibility; first nomination
* Yes: 22nd year of eligibility; second nomination

*Rufus & Chaka Khan has been eligible since 1999, and received its first and only (to date) nomination in 2012, its

Posted by JR on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:10am

Donnie,

Thanks for the kudos about Chicago. I could feel the pressure building up over the last few years. RR let them show up as #5 on a weekend poll. Somebody recently put up videos of Peter playing the bass again and videos of him singing some of the 70s Chicago songs. I wonder if that's any indication of what they might play at the induction ceremony.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:15am

7AM here on the West Coast, and I wake up from a sleep riddled with dreams of the nominees being announced, and they're loaded with acts I've never heard of, or barely heard of. Fortunately, that's not the case here.

First off, Enig, if you don't know who the J.B.'s are, that's on you. Do your effin' homework and realize there's more to rock'n'roll than prog. But by all means, DO connect the dots on this ballot and tell us how every nominee on here is indeed connected to prog, art rock, or Rush in a significant way.

I'd be happier with Chicago's nomination if it didn't mean having to listen to Roy's Illuminati Conspiracy Theory for the next four damn months. And the fact that the Cubs are doing this well this year really isn't helping either. Maybe after Chicago gets in, Roy can make a career switch toward predicting the apocalypse: zombie, Zombies, or otherwise.

And yeah, this is classic rock heavy. And so will the inductees. When you've got inductees like Alex Liefson swear they'll only vote for artists who fit the myopic rockist "classic rock" definition, it's gonna perpetuate itself. It's not intentionally racist, it's just the White acts who are there are gonna vote for the acts who inspired and influenced them, which will most likely be other (White) guitar acts, and will be the case forever on forth.

In fact, other than the J.B.'s getting the Award For Musical Excellence induction (which they will, that was my first thought when I saw their names on the ballot), this class will probably be all White acts. Maybe N.W.A. or Janet Jackson can punch through, and maybe the NomCom will tamper with the votes to put Chic in, because shut up, that's why. But the Spinners are just going to be left out again, dammit. Chaka Khan? Not happening. Especially not against Janet.

And Los Lobos? I thought Roy Trakin was one of the people let go from the NomCom. How the hell did they get nominated?

Deep Purple will need 8 nominations to get in. With Chicago, the Cars and Cheap Trick, not only is this year's ballot brought to you by the letter "C", but the three of them could keep Deep Purple buried for another year or two. Hopefully, the same fate will befall Yes. Nine Inch Nails and the Smiths are wild cards at this point and could both work to undermine the classic rock cult's stranglehold on the ballot this year. Steve Miller right now is just a question mark with the whole missing band bit.

Here we go again.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:23am

I was hoping for a special committee inducting all the neglected backing groups, but instead I get another neglected backing group.

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:25am

Chicago's drummer, Danny Seraphine, and David Hawk Wolinski of Rufus and Chaka Khan wrote Street Player for the 1978 Rufus and Chaka Khan Street Player album. Chicago recorded their version of Street Player a year later on Chicago 13. Rufus and Chaka Khan also appeared on a few Chicago albums. It sucks that Seraphine and Wolinski won't be reuniting at the Rock Hall induction ceremony. It also seems a little fishy that Chicago and Chaka Khan are on the same ballot and Rufus is left off after being nominated in 2012 as Rufus with Chaka Khan. Chaka Khan also had a hit single with Peter Cetera in 1992 - Feels Like Heaven, from Peter Cetera's World Falling Down album. There was also a music video for the song.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:27am

Wow. What a slate of nominees. The first draft of my thoughts:

CHICAGO!!!! Other people on this board feel the way I do, but as a long-suffering fan who has attended 9 of their concerts, its just a great thing to have happen. Wasn't sure it would. This might be the only circumstance that could trigger a brief reunion on stage with Peter Cetera and Danny Seraphine.

And lots of other acts the Nom Com has ignored for years. Really odd that The Cars and Cheap Trick both appear on the ballot at the same time. For Classic Rock enthusiasts this ballot is a dream come true- but it will never be enough. Even if we get a Class of 2016 that consists of Chicago, Cheap Trick, The Cars, Steve Miller, Deep Purple, and Yes, people will still complain, unfortunately. Where's ELO? Where's Tull? You just can't make some people happy.

For all of its Classic Rock mojo, this ballot does right by artists in the R&B branch of rock and roll's family tree. 6 African-American artists, and one Hispanic artist. Yet, only 3 female artists: Janet Jackson, Chaka Khan, and the Chic vocalists.

And speaking of-- congrats to #InductJanet. You ran a classy campaign that didn't berate the Hall for ignoring your favorite artist. You sought celebrity help, made persuasive arguments, and got the grassroots motivated. Nice work.

On my list of Top 100 snubs, 13 of them are on this list (everybody but JBs and Los Lobos). In fact, four are in my Top 15 snubs, and 11 (!) are in my top 30.

I reserve the right to change my mind, but in voting, I'd probably go for: Chicago, Janet, The Spinners, Yes, and Steve Miller Band.

I'd predict tentatively that Chicago, Janet, Yes, NWA, NIN, and Cheap Trick would get in.

Posted by AlexVoltaire on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:34am

Roy, Are you sure about who wrote Street Player? I thought it was Danny and Hawk.

Chaka has moved up to the #3 spot.

How long will it be before somebody passes 1 million votes?

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:46am

That's what I said: Danny Seraphine and David Hawk Wolinski wrote Street Player. Wolinski was a member of Rufus, but not an original member.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:49am

Ok. It's later in the day. I have decided who I am predicting for the 2016 Rock N'Roll Hall of Fame. It is a very interesting Ballot. I do agree that it can easily be all Classic Rock. Ultimately, I also don't think that will Happen. I thought it over carefully. Janet Jackson could be a Shoe in. Her Brother Michael was a more sure thing when he went in but I can see it for sure. She was one of my Back ups. However Perhaps NWA are skipped over to still keep in mind the Classic Back log. Chaka Khan I agree has a great amount of Critical respect. She is somewhat mellower than the others. Since there is no actual Singer/Songwriter The Hall could easily go with her. I'm also agreeing that Nine Inch Nails may be passed over again this year in favor of Older Rock bands. They are the only 90s band but they have so many 70s bands in their way.

We need to get Chic off the Ballots. The only way they are out is they get Inducted. That's going to Hurt. No Pain No Gain. You like that. So I'm going with Half Classic Rock and Half R&B. This will make up for a lack of R&B in my Nominee predictions. A key thing with the Classic Rock is the Fan base. A lot of these groups have big Fn Bases.
So here are my Predictions for the 2016 Rock N'Roll Hall of Fame.

The Cars
Chic
Chicago
Janet Jackson
Chaka Khan
Yes

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 10:54am

The only R&B-related nominee that has a chance is Janet Jackson. The RRHOF took all of the Rock-related acts that the fans have been complaining about for years, and put them ALL on the ballot in the SAME YEAR. That move just may shut out ALL the R&B acts.
The only reasons why NWA are back are because 1) their recent bioflick WAS A SUCCESS, AND 2) they need a Rap act.
Chaka Khan should NOT have garnered a second nomination without Rufus. Wonder who made the decision not to include them this time.
Glad the Spinners are back, but I doubt that they'll make it in this year.Too many popular Rock acts.
In recent years, the Rock acts have been getting in , and the R&B acts are being shut out .With the possible exception of Janet, I expect more of the SAME this year.

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:04am

Roy, you also listed Chaka Khan, which is what I was questioning.


Peter Cetera and Steve Miller are both on Amos Galpin's Rock N' Roll Recidivist.

Amos Galpin wrote Big Mistake which Peter Cetera recorded and made a video of.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:21am

All I can say for now is....HOLY CRAP!

This is a classic rock fan's dream ballot for sure. I underestimated how different the shakeup in the NomCom would be. But hey, I'm happy that so many underlooked bands from the 70s and 80s that made a difference are finally on the ballot. There's just too many to mention, and I could write a book about it. I'm sure Eddie Trunk and several die-hard classic rockers are jumping for joy at the moment, even though the 'heavier' acts aren't listed.

This will be the last 'Heinz 57' catchup ballot for awhile when several first-balloters could eventually get in the next few years (PJ, Alanis, Radiohead, Beck, etc). So they better make this one well-worthy. And I'm sure they will. What better way to do it than put a bunch of 70s/80s acts, right?

Which brings me to my next observation: no 50s, 60s acts (not counting the ones that started their careers in the late 60s like Steve Miller and Chicago). I usually b**** and moan about that, but the 70s were an important decade in rock too. I can't say that I am surprised about any of them, except maybe Los Lobos. Not really sure as far as influence (hey guys, remember Sir Douglas Quintet?), but I say give them a go.

Its gonna be difficult predicting this one, as I believe this list can't be pared down to six! (The JBs can be a back-door act for all I care) N.W.A. and Janet Jackson are sure to make it. Gotta keep in mind about the headliners and the $10,000 tables and such. I'm sure all the voters will put Chicago in, and who can blame them? It'll be no surprise for me.

Here's to the next two months of predicting, as I know it will be very, very interesting.

Posted by Jason Voigt on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:22am

They should just put Chic in for "Musical Excellence" and be done with it. It's obvious that they want them in. It's also obvious that the voters will never put them in. It's probably the ONLY way they'll ever GET in.

Chic is simply NOT a group that people think of as being Legendary. The Marvelettes, yes. The Whispers, yes. The Spinners, yes. But not Chic.
Sorry that Gladys, Wanda, Juanita,Georgeanna, and Kathy, The Marvelettes, didn't get a nomination this year. THEY deserve to get in. I hope that the 3 surviving members, Kathy, Wanda, and Juanita live long enough to see it happen.

Only Henry Famborough of the Original Spinners is left alive. Unless they also decide to induct G.C.Cameron and John Edwards, (which they SHOULD DO) I'm afraid that Henry will be taking the stage alone.
I hope that The Spinners get in while AT LEAST HE'S alive.
But it won't happen THIS year.

Bobby Byrd has the potential to possibly be a 3- time inductee. He's already in with The Famous Flames,is nominated this year with The J.B.'s, and also has a page on this site as a solo artist. But he is best known as the founder of The Flames, and as the man who discovered James Brown, so his place in Rock Hall History is already secure.

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:23am

FRL fans & regulars

I had Los Lobos that should be worth 50 pts. Good morning for Zuzu with Chicago and his Chicago area & adjacent bands. This ballot really strong Classic rock. Man, this is a pretty ballot. My dead vs. live artist thing I brought up a few weeks agois interesting. None of the dead signer-songwriters Croce,Nilsson,Zevon made the list or Joe Cocker or Ben E. King.
It's a real commercial and headlining type ballot. Groups like Chicago & Deep Purple sold over 100 million albums and The Cars & Janet Jackson had thereshare of platinum albums. Enig's prog and prog adjacent ballot crashed and burned but YES made
it though. Could see 12 of these artistsinducted.( My be tsguesst bindest) KING

Posted by KING on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:26am

I have a theory why Chic will get inducted in 2016: They will not finish in the fan ballot (as they have in recent years). I doubt anyone will argue The JB's and Los Lobos will finish in the bottom two of the fan ballot. Thus Chic will not finish dead-last, that dramatically increases their chances for an induction; because the Rock Hall can now see there is at least some fan support (no matter how minimal it might be). Plus Chic is long deserving and should be inducted to make way for newer nominees. After all, this is Chic's 10th (!) nomination.

Posted by Nick on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:28am

I have a theory why Chic will get inducted in 2016: They will not finish last in the fan ballot (as they have in recent years). I doubt anyone will argue The JB's and Los Lobos will finish in the bottom two of the fan ballot. Thus Chic will not finish dead-last, that dramatically increases their chances for an induction; because the Rock Hall can now see there is at least some fan support (no matter how minimal it might be). Plus Chic is long deserving and should be inducted to make way for newer nominees. After all, this is Chic's 10th (!) nomination.

Posted by Nick on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:31am

Los Lobos has a new album out and its currently at #153 on this week's chart. Yeah I know, it had nothing to do with the nomination. I just happened to read the Nominees article on Billboard, that's how I know ;)

Posted by Jason Voigt on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:37am

THE 2016 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES WHEN VOTING FOR SENIORITY

01. The Spinners
02. Deep Purple
03. Yes
04. Steve Miller
05. Chicago
06. The J.B.'s

THE 2016 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES WHEN VOTING FOR THE MOST RECENT ACTS

01. Nine Inch Nails
02. N.W.A
03. The Smiths
04. Janet Jackson
05. Chic
06. The Cars

THE REST: IN ORDER OF SENIORITY

01. Chaka Khan
02. Los Lobos
03. Cheap Trick

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:42am

King,

Congratulations on the Los Lobos pick. You know I am happy about my boys.


Zuzu is a Polish variant on a common girl's name. Didn't you ever see It's a Wonderful Life? I know the baseball thing threw you off, but us Sox ladies do understand the game.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:50am

Roy, you also listed Chaka Khan, which is what I was questioning.

Peter Cetera and Steve Miller are both on Amos Galpin's Rock N' Roll Recidivist.

Amos Galpin wrote Big Mistake which Peter Cetera recorded and made a video of.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10.8.15 @ 11:21am

I'll be more clear:

I wrote, David Hawk Wolinski "of" Rufus and Chaka Khan, wrote Street Player with Danny Seraphine.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 11:51am

Chaka Khan sang backup vocals on "Take Me Back to Chicago" which appeared on "Chicago XI" the last album with founding guitarist Terry Kath.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 12:08pm

Chaka Khan sang backup vocals on "Take Me Back to Chicago" which appeared on "Chicago XI" the last album with founding guitarist Terry Kath.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 12:08pm

Roy, I get you now. You were referring to the group and not the person. Thanks for clarifying.


Los Lobos isn't the only possible Latino or Hispanic that could be inducted this year. Laudir de Oliveira is a Brazilian and could possibly be inducted with Chicago.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 12:21pm

Chicago is # 1 in the Rock Hall poll!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 12:48pm

Steve Miller - should be elected if only for lyrics like big ole' Jed had a line-up, tick tock tick do do doo-doo and made up words like pompatus

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 13:08pm

One of the fun things about this day, year after year, is bashing the Nom Com for boneheaded choices. I can't do that this year. I would not be upset if any of these 15 get in. This is one of the best ballots I've seen in years. I do have my preferences, of course, but all are worthy. Quick rundown and then my ballot and then my prediction:

The Cars: YES YES YES YES!! I have been a diehard backer of The Cars getting inducted since I started following this thing. Recall several days ago when I posted my Top 10 snubs, The Cars were there. Didn't really expect this either, which makes me all the more happy. If any of you don't see why The Cars are a Hall of Fame act, ask me and I would be happy to discuss it in detail.

Chaka Khan: I know of her, of course, but I have to say I am probably least familiar with her work out of all of these nominees.

Cheap Trick: I've never been a huge fan, but definitely worthy and a Greatest Hits worth of power pop classics.

Chic: Poor Chic. Mercy. Uncle. Look Rockhall, go ahead and cook the books and get them in already.

Chicago: Has Roy exploded? What is the over under for how many times Roy will check the Fan Poll totals over the next few months? They are worthy, but I won't be voting for them.

Deep Purple: Definitely need to be in there. Along with Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne (solo)...metal is grossly underrepresented in the Hall.

The JB's: I agree with others who have said to go ahead and get them in with another category.

Janet Jackson: Glad to see her finally nominated, and I think she has a great chance of getting in.

Los Lobos: This took everyone (including me) by surprise. Did not see this coming at all. Don't think they will get in this time around, this seems more of a "the honor is the nomination" type of thing. Many people just remember their "La Bamba" cover hit, but this is a great, great band with a deep, rewarding catalogue. Do yourself a favor, if you have never listened to it, go grab a copy of their album KIKO. It is genius.

NWA: I agree with others who say this year is probably their best shot because of the film. Still not sure they'll get in, though. Would be a fun ceremony if they did.

NIN: This is an artist whom I dislike but also agree deserves induction. Won't be voting for Reznor, but I am OK with him getting inducted.

The Smiths: With this crowded ballot, I don't see them getting in, unfortunately. Man they deserve it, though. Like with metal, the 80's has a huge backlog that needs to get in. The Cure, Joy Division/New Order, Duran Duran, Replacements, Sonic Youth, Depeche Mode, Pixies...so many.

The Spinners: Love them. Don't have a chance this year.

Steve Miller: OK, first of all, love that he's nominated. Another one who is associated with some radio hits but actually has a deep, rich catalogue. As for the Steve Miller BAND issue. I don't really know the answer here, because I am not that familiar with the personnel over the years in the Band. (Roy, get on that.) It was so egregious last year with Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble (so bad they fixed it) because his band was a stable line-up that was with him his entire career (well, Wynans joined after the first two records). But has Miller's Band been a rotating door of musicians, or was it stable with the same guys playing with him for years? That would be crucial for me to know before I got upset about it.

Yes: Recall from my Top 10 snubs list, Yes was #1. Any time you have the arguably most important band from a major genre of rock and roll not in the Hall, that is on its face absurd.

My Votes:
The Cars
Yes
The Smiths
Steve Miller
Los Lobos

My Predictions:
Janet Jackson
Deep Purple
The Cars
Yes
Chicago
NWA

I bet they slip JB's in another category, which is fine.

Man, this is hard to really predict. I am shooting in the dark with my predictions.

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 13:46pm

One thing I enjoy every year is reading the OMG I'M MAD posts by "fans" on the Hall's FB page. They never get it. They cry and complain every single year, and yet they come back. Why? Even when a band they like gets a nod, they have to complain about other acts they don't like.

They absolutely lose their minds regardless, and it's rather entertaining.

Posted by dmg on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 13:57pm

Funny. Read the Chicago bio on the Rockhall site and there is no mention of the 80's at all.

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 14:06pm

Difficult year, but I have voted for the following five artists on the Rolling Stone website:

Chic
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson
N.W.A
The Smiths

Yes and Nine Inch Nails were close.

Posted by The_Claw on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 14:40pm

I just want to say that if it were up to me it would be all Classic Rock. Not just half. It can easily be The Cars, Cheap Trick, Chicago, Deep Purple, Steve Miller and Yes. That can easily happen but not likely. There is the Quest Love influence and the Hall's general desire for some Diversity. So that is why Go with Half Classic Rock and Half R&B.

Sadly Chic keep being nominated. I had hoped for the Musical Excellence thing for them but the Hall insists. So I deduce that maybe finally they will. Chaka Khan Is highly respected and Janet Jackson is such a Huge Superstar that everyone knows her.

So I go with The Cars, Chicago and Yes for the Classic Rock. I know someone criticized me for too many White acts. So I redeem that this way by picking 3 African American acts. This has happened before several times.

I say that Inductees will be Classic but not simply Classic Rock. The only one that's unfortunate is Chic. I wanted to be wrong so bad about them. Yet here they are again. So Now I take the other extreme that the Hall will finally take care of this.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 15:29pm

I actually find this to be one of the most boring ballots of all time...a lot of mid-tier classic rock and R&B acts that I could care less for coupled with a nice surprise like The Smiths that have no shot at really getting in. Of those that actually can be inducted, Chic/N.W.A./Nine Inch Nails are all incredibly deserving, but I'm also not much of a fan of any of those artists although I will cop to having that "Chic and related productions" box set from a few years back and I certainly love it.

What would get me excited? More key 80's indie and new wave artists (Depeche Mode, Pixies, Sonic Youth, etc.) More overlooked Motown artists (Marvelettes, Mary Wells). More ignored singer-songwriters (Zevon, Nilsson, Nick Drake, etc.) And especially, not giving short shrift to incredible 90's artists like Smashing Pumpkins and it's truly shameful that they didn't make it onto this ballot.

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 16:35pm

While it's great that this classic rock backlog will likely be dealt with (I see at least four of those six nominees getting in, regardless), it could potentially totally backfire in the Hall's faces. Imagine if Janet Jackson or Chaka Khan make it in while acts like Deep Purple and Yes don't...you'll never hear an end to the grumbling from the rockists out there.

It's not impossible that a lot of those votes cancel each other out and an artist with a nice niche like Janet, N.W.A. or The Smiths make it in over them.

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 16:38pm

Cheap Trick - always seemed like a borderline candidate to me, still do

Steve Miller - several rock classic and millions sold without having an image whatsoever, I'd be ok with him going in

The J.B.'s - come on, admit it, you had to look them up too

Yes - my answer...Yes!

The Cars - about time. Too many good songs to ignore.

Janet Jackson - ugh, if Madonna is in, then they've broken the seal on whatever that genre is, so it's hard to argue against her although I would have preferred Tina Turner or Whitney Houston here

Chicago - and with this, the most egregious non-nominee ever is corrected, I'll let Roy provide the details

The Smiths - I'm glad they've settled on the Smiths as the 80's alt band nominee and not the much speculated Sonic Youth. Love the Smiths, would love to see the shunning of the ceremony shenanigans as well.

N.W.A - whatever

Chic - stop it. Find some way to get Niles Rodgers in on his own and forget Chic, 99 percent of the public has

Nine Inch Nails - will be surprised if they don't go in this year with little direct competition for their genre

The Spinners - I like me some Spinners.

Deep Purple - get them in already, should have been in over a decade ago now

Los Lobos - babababala bamba, awesome, ummmm no

Chaka Khan - chaka khan let me rock ya let me rock ya chaka khan. ummmm no

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 17:10pm

KING - Great guess on Los Lobos (yeah, you deserve bonus points). It'll be interesting to see how they fare considering how well respected they are by their peers.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 17:28pm

Seen two of these nominees live (I'm trying to see as many RRHOFers live as I can, and I'm up to almost 35). I saw NIN a decade ago as I've always liked him. Chicago I saw back in July when they were with Earth, Wind & Fire. I almost saw Cheap Trick at the Illinois State Fair five years ago, but their set was cancelled due to rain. Blondie opened for them. Janet Jackson's coming to my city at the end of the month, so I hope I can still get tix to see her live before (I believe) her eventual induction.

Who's seen any of these bands live and how were they?

Posted by Jason Voigt on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:05pm

Casper,

The correct term is rocker which has been in use since the 70s. Fusion and genre jumpers are ok. The problem is artist in other genres that had nothing to do with rock. Janet is a problem, but Chaka Khan is a different story. She has recorded in several genres and not just r&b. she has worked with: Eric Clapton - Chicago - Tom Jones - Robert Palmer - Joni Mitchell - Rod Stewart - Peter Cetera - Stephen Bishop - Prince - Bruce Hornsby - Steve Winwood - Blood, Sweat & Tears.

I have said it before and I will say it again Janet has no rock cred and Chaka does. Chaka was in high demand for her vocals. She was considered the best. What's Janet known for - dancing?

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:35pm

Good list. Sadly, two of the really deserving ones (NIN and The Smiths) have no chance of induction. By the way, you old time rock fans got a favorable ballot. Happy now?

I actually wonder if this will backfire on the Hall. For example: Deep Purple vs Yes. Two giants of the 70s, both way overdue. The voters could be not at a consensus on which one to vote for, meaning that they split the vote and neither gets in. Same with Chic vs Janet Jackson. The five that I'd vote for:

The Smiths
Chic
Deep Purple
Yes
NWA (I'd to have the genius Trent Reznor get this, but we have to sell tickets)

Who I think will get in:

Janet Jackson or Chic (can't decide which yet)
NWA
The Cars
Yes
Chicago

Posted by Sam on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:42pm

I'm a little miffed at the lack of modern representation, I feel like the voters won't want to vote for acts like Nine Inch Nails or NWA because their peers are there. It's a shame because while Chicago is deserving, I feel like Nine Inch Nails and NWA are even more so.

This has me a little scared for some other 90s big names like The Smashing Pumpkins, Tupac, Beck, Rage Against the Machine (despite Morello being on the committee), Wu-Tang Clan, Weezer, Biggie, Oasis, OutKast, Daft Punk, and maybe even Jay-Z. Basically acts that aren't no-brainers like Pearl Jam, Radiohead, or the Foo Fighters. Don't even get me started on the 2000s, acts like Gorillaz, The Strokes, LCD Soundsystem, Arcade Fire and the Arctic Monkeys don't seem as sure as they once were.

Basically I think while we are finally getting acts like Chicago, Cheap Trick, and The Cars some recognition, it's probably at the cost of never being able to see Soundgarden or Jane's Addiction in. Also I dislike how Steve Miller is listed as a solo artist but maybe that can change.

Posted by dank on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:50pm

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/08/entertainment/rock-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees-feat/index.html

Janet Jackson, N.W.A., Los Lobos among Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:50pm

http://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/n-w-nine-inch-nails-among-rock-roll-hall-fame-n440771

N.W.A., Nine Inch Nails Among Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:51pm

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6722021/janet-jackson-nine-inch-nails-nwa-2016-rock-hall-of-fame

Janet Jackson, Nine Inch Nails, N.W.A Nominated for 2016 Rock Hall of Fame

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 18:58pm

"Sadly, two of the really deserving ones (NIN and The Smiths) have no chance of induction." -Sam

Another way it could play out is that they both have a much clearer path to induction on this ballot while the heroes of classic rock are splitting votes.

I don't think that the VoteComm is going to be tripping over themselves to induct an all rockist approved class.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:09pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbh_SQIuh8Y

Greg Harris on USA TODAY - VIDEO

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:16pm

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/2016-rock-hall-nominees/?trackback=tsmclip

Analyzing the 2016 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:30pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/rock-hall-nominees-janet-jackson-nwa-chicaco-chic-1.3262231

Janet Jackson, N.W.A., Chicago among Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees

Disco-funk band Chic lands 10th nod, setting record for nominations without induction

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:34pm

Janet is now in the #1 spot.

top 5

Janet Jackson
Chicago
The Cars
Yes
Deep Purple

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:40pm

The photo for the Cars on the Rock Hall site got changed. I should make them change the Chicago photo. Every other band got an up-close photo of their faces except for Chicago and J.B.'s.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 19:48pm

Roy,

Did you notice that Jimmy and Bobby are up front and Lea and Walt are in the middle. Terry, Peter and Danny are all the way in the back, the three that are not current members. At least it is a picture of the original band members. On the hand it isn't one of the best pictures I have seen of the band.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:01pm

No Zuzu, "rockist" was the right term to use... it refers to people whose definition of rock 'n' roll is the extremely narrow version that demands full bands that are predominantly guitar-driven. It's just plain wrong. That's only a part of what rock'n'roll is. The music of Janet Jackson is also part of it. Get used to it.

"Another way it could play out is that they both have a much clearer path to induction on this ballot while the heroes of classic rock are splitting votes.

I don't think that the VoteComm is going to be tripping over themselves to induct an all rockist approved class."--DarinRG

Disagree. Aside from NWA (and the JBs getting the AME side-door induction), it'll be five classic rock acts. And contrary to what Tom Lane, Chicago fits in very comfortably with classic rock formats, provided you don't play anything after 1975. Alex Leifson has promised to go straight rockist, pretty sure the members of Metallica will too, and I can't imagine the members of Nirvana and Green Day being any different. Joan Jett might try for a woman or two, but her bandmates? Classic rock. Unless we can get classes that are more than half Black again, this is what's gonna happen every year. Chic will probably be the last non-rap Black act inducted into the Rock Hall for a very long time.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:24pm

THE SMITHS
Nominated last year but not inducted despite Morrissey's diagnosis. The Hall has a spotty history with alternative. Green Day was only a headliner.

CHIC
Nominated what thirteen times now? Just get it over with so more worthy musicians can get nominated.

STEVE MILLER
I hope they alter the ballot to change it to Steve Miller Band like what they did with Stevie Ray Vaughan. You can't just have Steve, you need the whole band.

NWA
A shoe-in due to the film. They're almost obligated to induct them. The film was the reason they even got nominated.

DEEP PURPLE
From what I understand a member of the classic lineup died several years ago due to a long terminal illness. The best they could do would be to include him. I still think Space Truckin' sounds like Enter Sandman.

CHEAP TRICK
The Hall does not have a pure power pop group. Because of their association with Top Gun, they have the eighties revival on their side.

THE CARS
They already have Talking Heads and the Police.

YES
Definitive seventies progressive rock band, but they have little to go on.

THE SPINNERS
I do not know who they are.

THE JB'S
I do not know who they are.

CHAKA KHAN
I do not know who she is.

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:37pm

CHICAGO
They are a good jazz-rock band. That is all I can say.

NINE INCH NAILS
My sister used to love them. That's all I know.

JANET JACKSON
Could be the headliner, although NWA will probably fill that position. Should've been inducted after Michael died.

LOS LOBOS
They had two hits, both of which were Ritchie Valens covers. They're not remembered for much.

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:40pm

I want this to be the year of Classic Rock with Chicago The Cars Cheap Trick Deep Purple Yes and Steve Miller all inducted with NWA as a backup due to the success of their flim I want this to happen so it would open the door to 80s rock bands like Bon Jovi and Def Leppard to follow in the next few years as much as I love Janet Jackson and her music if she wins the fan vote over these Classic Rock Bands I am gonna be pissed shes more of a pop/R&B artist(not a rock artist) and her induction would only open the door for other female pop/R&B artists like Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey to follow in her path and getting inducted in the next few years

Posted by richie on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:50pm

Philip,

Janet Jackson is not rock and roll. Neither is disco. Disco was being used to supplant r&r. Rock and roll and r&b evolved out of the blues. There is some fusion with the two genres over the years but they are separate genres. Remember it is the blues that brings us all together. There is also fusion with folk and country. This does not mean all r&b, folk and country artist did rock fusion. I think it should be pointed out that Elvis said he learned from Blues artists and not r&b artist.

Again rockist is the wrong term. The correct term is rocker. From what I can see, rockist is a derogatory term thought up by r&b enthusiast.

Are you familiar with these post 75 Chicago songs? I would suggest listening to the live version to get the true feel of the song.

Little Miss Lovin
Mississippi Delta City Blues
Take Me Back to Chicago

I would also suggest listening to Peter Cetera Limelight done live by Chicago

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 20:59pm

Janet Jackson IS rock and roll. The rhythmic structures of her songs are closer to the original rhythmic structures of old school rock 'n' roll. Y'know, since music genres are defined by their RHYTHMIC STRUCTURES and not by their lead instruments. But hey, I'm just stating the obvious. And disco is rock and roll too, even in the rockist sense. I'll put the guitar solo from Donna Summer's "Hot Stuff" against the guitar solo from pretty much any Cheap Trick song (nothing against Cheap Trick either, they are rock 'n' roll too). R&B is part of rock'n'roll. Disco is part of rock'n'roll. Metal is part of rock'n'roll. Rock'n'roll ain't noise pollution, and it isn't just guitars wailing either.

And rockist is the right term, BECAUSE it's derogatory for myopic people who think guitar is all that matters in rock'n'roll. The ignorant knuckle-draggers, like Gene Simmons.

And yes, I do know post-75 Chicago songs: You're The Inspiration, If You Leave Me Now, Stay The Night, etc. Honestly, those are to Chicago what "You Don't Bring Me Flowers" was for Neil Diamond: the reason it took so long to get their names on the ballot in the first place. Fwiw, You're The Inspiration had potential to be a blue-eyed soul classic. If a group like Boyz II Men were to cover it with their Motownphilly style, they could do serious improvement to it. The point is: those songs aren't the ones people think of when you say "post-'75 Chicago"... it's the sap. And it dominated and tarnished their image.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 21:34pm

"Again rockist is the wrong term."

"Rockist" is exactly the word that several of us intended to use. Philip explained it pretty well. This site used to be a nice refuge from the rockist mentality that pollutes blogs and comment sections all over the internet. Not so much this year.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 21:53pm

After Chicago .... The Steve Miller Band is the second best selling artist on the nominees list. And for that reason I think Miller along with Chicago are locks for induction.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 21:59pm

Philip,

No she isn't and no what she did was not closer to early r&r. I believe you are confusing r&b for r&r.

Disco and Donna Summer are not r&r. We had that trash shoved down our throats. We puked it up. I saw and heard the following myself and I was more than old enough to understand what they were doing. The talking heads on tv were saying well it looks like rock and roll is dead and disco is here to stay. That is what the were all saying - disco was here to kill rock. We were getting it instead of rock whether we wanted it or not. So no - under no circumstances is disco rock and roll. It is gangbanger music and none of the gangbanger music is rock and roll. Disco sucks came about because idiots in the music industry decided to turn rock stations into disco stations.
Saying any gangbanger music was rock and roll is like saying r&r is blues and that the two never separated.

And all the boo hooing coming from disco artist. They were the ones that started it. I don't exactly consider Cheap Trick a stellar example but where do you get that disco has better guitar playing from. Disco was especially know for it's lack of guitar playing. And speaking of Donna Summer were you aware that she tried to push a disco record off as a rock record?

I am offended as a rocker and no I do not think guitar is the only thing that makes rock - rock. Do not confuse rock with party hardy rock and metal. A rocker likes soft rock and hard rock and rock that is in between. Go back and look at what you wrote - you are using the term as a put down.

Those songs are still post 75. What is wrong with If You Leave Me Now? It is a soft rock song with folk elements. Some of the things Jimmy wrote were worse.

Just for the record - you may not like Chicago's 80 style of rock but there are plenty of people who do. For the record what do you think the Who and the Stones sounded like to those of us that were teens on the 70s? 80s Chicago influenced metal prog and according to Who Sampled, several r&b artist sampled 80's Chicago. Part of the problem is it's hard to find live videos. You can not grade Chicago on the studio version. That is why I suggested Living in the Limelight. The studio version is ok but the live version really rocks.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:15pm

Disco and Janet are much closer to early r&r than acts like Megadeth or REO Speedwagon. R&B and R&R were so strongly intertwined that for awhile, the terms WERE synonymous. Doo-wop IS rock'n'roll. Just as sure as rockabilly, soul, surf, and Chuck Berry.

"The talking heads on tv were saying well it looks like rock and roll is dead and disco is here to stay."--Zuzu

Yes, because if a person on TV said it, it MUST be true. You just can't argue with ironclad logic like that.

"We were getting it instead of rock whether we wanted it or not. So no - under no circumstances is disco rock and roll."-Zuzu

You were getting rock'n'roll, just a different flavor.

"It is gangbanger music and none of the gangbanger music is rock and roll."--Zuzu some more

That is either incredibly racist, or incredibly ironic considering another term for "gangbanger" is PUNK, but either way, it is incredibly stupid.

The blues were always part of rock'n'roll, thriving in the RHYTHM section. Again, a genre is defined by RHYTHMIC structures

Disco had guitars in it... they just weren't the lead instruments. So if r&r isn't just guitars wailing, it must be okay if guitars are not the lead instrument, right? And Donna was right to push her disco records and rock records, because it's part of rock'n'roll.

You're right. I am using the term as a put down. Stop and think about that.

I have no problem with "If You Leave Me Now" personally. The point is, the Hall is not all that favorable in its regard to soft rock: Bread, the Carpenters, Air Supply, the Association, the Vogues... none of whom have even been Considered. I'd even suspect the power ballads of Heart were why it took so long for them to be considered either. Can't prove that, of course, but it's not entirely unfounded as a theory.

Metal prog was largely dead by the '80s, only to be replaced by thrash and hair metal. And I'm sorry, but if a band can't sound good on the record, that should be held against them. It's important for an act to sound awesome both on their recordings AND live. If you don't sound good on the record, you've got no reason to see them live; if they don't sound good live, then there's a stronger chance that it's the production effects that made the song and not the talent of the band.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:45pm

...

gangbanger music?

......

Posted by DC on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:46pm

DarinRG,

As somebody that lived through the 70s I understand exactly what is meant by the term. It refers to those who recognize the split between rock and disco. It is intentionally meant as a put down for the wrong reasons and it is therefore offensive and derogatory.

It is thinking that erroneously supports that r&r developed out of r&b. r&r along with r&b developed out of the blues

Gangbanger music is not rock and roll. Soul, funk, rock, blues, country and folk had a lot of fusion. Disco created a gap. This is why many do not accept hip hop and rap. I have some fusion with rock but a lot of it isn't.

If the hall wanted to include non-rock artist who were only an influence. I would have been alright with it if they had created a separate category. I came across a blog. The guy made a list of who he thought were the greatest rock songwriters. He included LZ and Michael Jackson. The first is on their 8th lawsuit and from what I have read there is between 20 and 30 songs that is stolen material and the second is the first time I heard referred to as a rock artist. Yet the blogger insisted that Johnny Cash was not rock despite several people trying to correct him.

With Janet Jackson I have problems with her beyond r&r designation. I have several people I Know that were molested as children and I realize how hard it is to prove. I am disgusted with behavior of the whole family in what I believe is a cover up of what happened. The only thing I see Janet Jackson has going for her is dancing. I also see her as a female version of her brother and therefore not innovative.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:48pm

What's with all the proud displays of racism? Most rockists at least try to hide it.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:53pm

I will have a lot to say about the past 24 hours. In an ironic twist of fate, these past three days involved me needing to replace my iPhone 6 due to a bad antenna; then having my car be totaled the next day due to accidentally bumping the back of a small school bus; I will not get into the details, just to say I and my family are fine and my family and I purchased a new Toyota today. Incidentally, this has kept me from finding the time to present my ballot for this week's Album and Song Project elections. This will be different next week; I am NOT missing the Revisited/Projected Rock Hall Project election for anything.

Even with all that, there are more important matters of this world to be concerned about,

Lax32

Posted by Lax32 on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:56pm

But in all seriousness, I LOVE that you're going on about a term being offensive while then turning on a dime and flipping off the "gangbangers."

"Then I see your true colors shining through..."

God I miss how this site used to feel.

Posted by DC on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 22:57pm

R & B is part of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame....get used to it! Look at all of the 50s doo wop and 60s Motown groups that were already inducted, sometimes back to the earliest classes from the late 80s. Janet is just a continuation along that line. As someone else mentioned, I thought this site was a bit of a haven from the rockist mentality that shows up all too often, but maybe not any more.

Overall a good ballot, but a little too "classic rock" leaning from the 70s. I was hoping for more 80s alt noms, but that sadly always gets the short end of the stick. Mildly surprised the Pumpkins were left off, but maybe they come on next year with Pearl Jam. Perhaps Billy has ticked off too many lately.

My predictions:
N.W.A.
Janet
Deep Purple
Cheap Trick
Nine Inch Nails
Chicago

The 6 I want in:
The Smiths (even though the Moz will never show up....not sure about Marr)
N.W.A.
Nine Inch Nails
Deep Purple
The Cars
The Spinners

Posted by Boar on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 23:09pm

Philip,

Disco separated from rock and roll - so no she is not rock or rock and roll.

The split between r&r and r&b started in the early 60s and disco created a huge rift. NO IT WAS NOT ROCK AND ROLL of a different flavor and Donna Summer was not I repeat not playing on rock stations.

The term rockist is racist and is therefore derogatory. Gangbangers had nothing to do with punk - it was a term used to define somebody who was in a gang. They were the ones that were into disco. This was in contrast to heads who were the partiers who listened to pardy hardy rock and metal. You are wrong to use the term - think about that.

The hall has a problem with not only those you mentioned but also with the rock crooners from the late 50s and early 60s. They are also remiss with putting in a lot of folk and country artist. Not all r&b, folk and country artist should be considered. This is the problem with going so heavy on r & b and neglecting folk and country - people begin to think that r&b and r&r are interchangeable terms. They aren't. When I went to the record store they were two different sections. Oldies refers to r&r while dusties refers to r&b. These were played on different stations.

Peter Cetera referred to playing the chitlin circuit with the band he was in before Chicago. Marty Grebb mentions that they would listen to WVON. WVON was not the rock station it was the r&b station.

Bread actually had some very good music and David Gates had a pretty good voice. I find it interesting that Elton John is given a pass and he did a Disney song. Paul McCartney, Rod Stewart and Phil Collins are given a pass. Why? Almost every style of music has a hard side and a soft side.

If you are going to have no boundaries then why are so few folk artist included? Every style of music came out of folk. They developed certain characteristics and was defined as another category of music. How many rock artist are in the Blues Hall of Fame? I think it is only 2 - Eric Clapton and one other I can't remember. Do rock artist get BET awards? DownBeat magazine lists only two rock artist on their all time bass player list - Peter Cetera and another I can't remember.

What you describe is like neapolitan ice-cream. Sliced it tastes good with variations. What you want is it all melted together and it does not look and taste as good.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 23:43pm

What's with all the proud displays of racism? Most rockists at least try to hide it.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10.8.15 @ 22:53pm


So you are trying to turn it around to hide your own bigotry. Are you also part of the cheese wiz factory which are also bigots that put down certain cultural elements.



But in all seriousness, I LOVE that you're going on about a term being offensive while then turning on a dime and flipping off the "gangbangers."

"Then I see your true colors shining through..."

God I miss how this site used to feel.

Posted by DC on Thursday, 10.8.15 @ 22:57pm


What you are defining isn't bigotry and jumping to conclusions? Perhaps the true colors you actually see are your own reflection.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 23:58pm

Huh?

Posted by DarinRG on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 00:08am

It is only your opinion that disco separated from rock'n'roll. Disco evolved largely out of soul music. With a more solid backbeat, a more ROCKIN' beat, disco became the powerhouse it was. It is most definitely a part of rock and roll. R&R stayed paired tightly with R&B through the British Invasion (remember, when the British acts first came over, they were playing blues and R&B records when they started. The Rolling Stones maintained a bluesy sound for a large part of their career and did songs that were at home in the discos such as "Miss You" and "Undercover Of The Night." Fusion, not separation.

And early rock'n'roll crooners? Are you perchance referring to throwaway teen idols such as Tommy Sands? Because they've already inducted Ricky Nelson and Gene Pitney, two artists from that period that did a bit of crooning, but also did a fair amount of not-so-soft (for their times) rockers. Because I'm fairly certain you're not talking about soul singers or doo-wop.

Unfortunately, your logic is backwards.... "rockist" IS derogatory, but it's not racist. And certainly not as racist as "gangbangers", who by the way were NOT associated with disco music or discotheques.... too many witnesses for starters.

Folk and country have not been ignored... Bob Dylan and the Byrds, Johnny Cash, and Brenda Lee, etc. And there's really not much objection (at least on this site) if the Hall inducted the Kingston Trio, Joan Baez, Peter Paul And Mary, Willie Nelson, Patsy Cline, Emmylou Harris, etc. So, your accusations of hypocrisy on our part fall hilariously flat.

Those artists DID have a soft side, but they have a hard side as well. Bread had "Let Your Love Go" and "Mother Freedom"... but beyond that, not much of a hard side. The Carpenters didn't have much of a "hard" side, pretty much relegated to "Calling Occupants Of Interplanetary Craft" as their hardest song.

Interesting anecdote about your record store... did they also have separate drinking fountains? I kid... music stores today still separate based on race, only they call them "pop" and "urban." Seriously though, you're confusing marketing with actual musicology. That's a very serious mistake to make because it utterly destroys your argument from under you, and because it's an extremely easy one to make, you've gotta be aware of it.

And it's not so much Neapolitan, as it is like Ben & Jerry's core ice creams... who cares how it looks, and it tastes pretty awesome when it's melted. Actually, so is Neapolitan.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 00:15am

That's why you need to pay attention to Weird Al, Darin... he recorded a song in which he backmasks "Satan eats Cheez Wiz." Clearly evil

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 00:20am

Philip,

Nobody I knew considered disco r&r. Nobody I knew was into the Stones in the 70s. This ties into what I have been saying that the Brits were not doing so well in the 70s. I do not see Missing You as fusion - it is disco - it did not play on rock stations. Do You Think I'm Sexy was not considered fusion. You don't get it. The moment they thought turning a rock station into a disco station was a good idea all bets were off. Before that if you wanted to dance you played r&b and if you wanted listening music you went to rock. Gee I always thought disco developed out of funk not soul. Soul is smooth and funk is more staccato like disco. I wouldn't call what the Brits were doing the Blues. Listen to Muddy Waters sometime. The Brits don't have the vocals. Well maybe Tom Jones and Joe Cocker got the vocals.

There is a point of separation when a style is no longer a subcategory but large enough to be considered a separate entity. Something similar happened in rock too. Prog, Metal and punk were separated from rock. They were viewed more as derivatives.

For rock crooners I was thinking of Paul Anka and Bobby Vinton.

Gangbanger was somebody in a gang and they could be black, white or hispanic. I suppose they could be Asian too. The people in the gangs were the ones that were into disco. Are you thinking of the wealthy coke snorting club goers? That wasn't your typical person. You went to a bar with a dance floor and a jukebox that played disco music if you were an average person. A friend once took me to a Puerto Rican dance club with a band but that wasn't disco. The term heads was a drug term from a question do you have anything for the head meaning something to get high.

If the term rockist refers to only people that are white then it is racist. I sure don't see the term being used for people who object to folk or country.

There isn't much objection? I think you will find that there are comments under Patsy Cline, Kenny Rogers and Arlo Guthrie that contradicts that. As far as the Byrds go I suggest looking at the Old Town School of music. Roger McGuinn was not their star alumni. As far as folk and country how much discussion goes on here about it.

Philip, the problem is that you are trying to make this about race and not about music style. I was talking with this person on the bus once and they told me you notice most r&b bands are all black and most rock bands are all white but most blues bands are both. I realize that it can be hard to separate music style from race when so much of it is divided along racial lines.

I object to Janet Jackson for several reasons one of which is her brother the accused child molester and the way the family dealt with it. I also object to LZ in part because I think some of them should have been put in jail for rape. Also I object of their stealing of material from others and claiming it as their own work. You should read what Willie Dixon's daughter has to say about what they had to go through to get compensation because of statute of limitations. I object to Donna Summer and Chic. I do not object to Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner (I admit I do object to Ike), 5th Dimension or Chaka Khan.

I see an overload of certain eras of r&b and Motown artist. Not everybody should be in. At some point when you oversaturate, you are letting in mediocre artist and bypassing quality artist of another era or style. I also see this with British Invasion and late 60s California sound.

Maybe a better way to define it is: ice-cream, sherbert or frozen yogurt. I have had rainbow sherbert and I have had rainbow ice-cream. They each have defining differences that put them in a different category. There are boundaries. To a certain degree those boundaries evolve and change. The do not jump from one end to another. What is acceptable in one era is not necessarily acceptable in another.

Posted by Zuzu on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 02:30am

Philip
How did you do on your picks? Had 7 nominees cut Chicago & Steve Miller. Could have 9. They brought Chic back for 10th time.
Love this ballot. I would vote for 1.The Spinners2.Chicago 3.Deep Purple 4.Chic 5.Janet Jackson 6. YES. Good to see SteveMiller on the ballot. They will find a way to get Chic inducted. Some late ballots like the military overseas ballots votes you see that mysteriously arrive late election time. Enig's prog groups were YES and I think. You could count Chicago & DeepPurple as Prog Adjacent. Over the moon my Los Lobos pick hit. KING

Posted by KING on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 04:51am

Philip
How did you do on your picks? Had 7 nominees cut Chicago & Steve Miller. Could have 9. They brought Chic back for 10th time.
Love this ballot. I would vote for 1.The Spinners2.Chicago 3.Deep Purple 4.Chic 5.Janet Jackson 6. YES. Good to see SteveMiller on the ballot. They will find a way to get Chic inducted. Some late ballots like the military overseas ballots votes you see that mysteriously arrive late election time. Enig's prog groups were YES and I think. You could count Chicago & DeepPurple as Prog Adjacent. Over the moon my Los Lobos pick hit. KING

Posted by KING on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 04:53am

So I want to talk about the Voting Body for the 2016 Rock Hall. How would Elton John vote for instance. He would vote for ones like Chicago and the Spinners perhaps. There is Older Inductees older than Him that can Vote. I seriously doubt the guys in Lovin Spoonful would Vote for Deep Purple. I know Steve Tyler or the Guys In GnR surely will Vote for Deep Purple but I don't think the guys in Steely Dan or Dr John would. Bill Withers would probably Vote for ones like Chaka Khan and the Spinners.

This will create diversity in the Inductee list. So I'll stay with Half Classic Rock and Half R&B.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 05:41am

I think if Chaka Khan is inducted, the Rock Hall will induct Rufus in the Musical Excellence category and Ashford and Simpson in the non-performers category the same year.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 06:08am

Ben,

Roy used to do this all the time. Decide what certain voters would vote for. I'd be careful doing that if you don't actually know the person. Because basically the assumption then is based on stereotyping, race, etc. I'm guilty too sometimes. In my own criticisms of the voting process, I've said a flaw is that Jerry Lee Lewis is asked to consider the importance of Kraftwerk or The Smiths. Although I seriously doubt it, perhaps Jerry Lee loves himself some Moz.

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 06:12am

C

Cars
Chaka
Cheap
Chic
Chicago

S

Smith
Spinners
Steve

J

J.B.'s
Janet Jackson

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 07:04am

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6722672/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2016-nominees-cheap-trick-chicago-react

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 2016 Nominees: Cheap Trick, Chicago & More React

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 07:54am

Chicago is # 1 in the Rock Hall and FRL polls!! And I only voted once!

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 08:03am

I know it's VERY early but does it seem strange that last year Nine Inch Nails finished second in fan voting, yet as of this post they have fewer votes than The J.B.'s and are in fact dead last??

Posted by Greg on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 09:14am

Ah, Roy you never disappoint. Roy just posted:

C

Cars
Chaka
Cheap
Chic
Chicago

S

Smith
Spinners
Steve

J

J.B.'s
Janet Jackson

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.9.15 @ 07:04am

So Roy, what could this possibly mean? What is the significance, and what does it portend for Chicago? And Enig, can you somehow connect Roy's analysis to Rush?

Posted by Dezmo meannd on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 09:39am

What the hell is going on with Nine Inch Nails in this year's fan ballot??? How could they end up in 2nd place in last year's ballot and dead last as of this writing? Maybe the classic rock acts are taking away votes from Nine Inch Nails but still I'm a little confused. Why aren't the Trent Renzor fans coming in droves in the likes of Chicago, Janet Jackson, Yes and The Cars?? I figured The JB's and Los Lobos would finish last. There goes my theory that they will be in the top 5 for the fan ballot the way things are going.

Posted by Nick on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 10:43am

KING, I only got six sadly. Almost did include Janet, but I figured the campaign would need another year or two finally stir the NomCom into putting her name on the ballot. Chicago is a name we bandied about here on the forum, but it didn't ultimately seem plausible. Cheap Trick, Cars, JBs, Los Lobos, just plain didn't see coming, at least not until Little Steven was tweeting about Cheap Trick. Smiths I figured would be part of the pattern for post-punk acts so far, and the Spinners... I was just afraid to get my hopes up only to have them dashed again.

Dezmond, you're right about that, however, Gene Simmons and Alex Leifson have taken to social media in the past to express their classic-rock-only votes. We heard Hetfield's speech pushing for acts like Deep Purple. They've pretty much shown their hands in those instances.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 12:29pm

LAST YEAR'S FINAL TALLY!

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Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 13:15pm

Actually...


C

Cars
Chaka
Cheap
Chic
Chicago

J

J.B.'s
Janet Jackson

N

Nine Nails
N.W.A

S

Smiths
Spinners
Steve

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 13:24pm

Zuzu,

Your point would be valid except "Missing You" and "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" play very popularly on classic rock radio, now. Not as popular as Zeppelin, maybe, but those songs are part of the catalog of classic rock stations. And quite frankly, it is MUCH more telling that tried-and-true rockers such as the Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart, the Kinks, Wings, Pink Floyd and even Springsteen were dabbling in danceable, disco-tinged songs. In other words, they were FUSING disco with their own established brand of rock. Maybe not long term, but they were doing it. I'm sorry that nobody YOU knew listened to the Stones in the '70s, but the fact remains that their singles and albums were still selling very well for most of the decade. And quite frankly, the Stones are a more authoritative figure on whether or not the Rolling Stones were rock'n'roll during those years than, say, you are.

I'm sorry you still don't get that "danceability" is not a disqualification for being considered "rock'n'roll." In fact, that flat out betrays the history of rock'n'roll. You can dance to Zeppelin, you can dance to prog. Even if it's just swaying, if it's holding the sign of the horns in the air and headbanging, if it's tapping your foot or air drumming/guitaring... it's an intentional movement elicited by the music. It may not be what is widely considered "dancing" as it is used commonly, but it all comes from the same place: movement brought on by the music. Ultimately, it's all the same.

Funk is part of soul. "Soul" is not JUST soft music. It can be upbeat, and it can be gritty. Take Stax/Volt music. Great soul music that gets flat-out nasty sometimes. Great stuff. But early disco, more to the point, came out of songs like "Rock Me Baby" by George McRae, widely considered the first disco record. That's not a really funky thing. Nor is "Bad Luck" by Harold Melvin And The Blue Notes, the song that holds the record for biggest hit of the disco charts. It's a smooth record with a very solid beat behind it.

The Brits were doing covers of Blues records. They were doing them with the traditional blues structure of A-A'-B and other various blues structures. And Blues is not simply in the vocals. I've heard Muddy Waters... not a fan personally, but I've heard him. Just because the Brits didn't sound exactly like him doesn't mean they weren't doing the blues, or even doing them justice.

Joe Cocker's got the vocals of a homeless person; or that broken down, dirty uncle your parents told you they invite to holiday dinners because he's family, but don't tell you that they invited him to also keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't fall of the wagon during the holiday season. I hear Joe Cocker's voice and want to give him a dollar so he can buy a cup of coffee.

"Prog, Metal and punk were separated from rock." So you don't think Yes, Anthrax, or Ramones belong in the Hall either?

Bobby Vinton is not a rock'n'roller. He's a bandleader and traditional style singer, similar to Andy Williams and Steve Lawrence. The higher tone and timbre, plus the fact he recorded under the name "Bobby" instead of "Robert" to appeal to teenagers probably threw you, but he is not a rock'n'roller.

Paul Anka is just inferior-grade. Sure he wrote a lot of stuff, but he's plain awful. I'll take Bobby Rydell or Bobby Vee before Anka.

"Gangbanger was somebody in a gang and they could be black, white or hispanic. I suppose they could be Asian too."

Yes, and Eminem is a white rapper. Seriously, the problem with this all too common defense is that it willfully turns a blind eye to reality, choosing to embrace the strictly hypothetical. Yeah, you have your Latin gangs as well, but stop and think: who are primarily in gangs? No, I'm not confusing "gangbanger" at all. On the contrary, I'm pretty convinced now that you're the one who's confused as to what the term means, at least what it means today.

Rockist isn't racist: it points out the stupidity of people who think rock'n'roll is simply "minimum of two guitars and a drum set." The only reason it isn't being used against people who oppose folk and country is because folk and country acts haven't been getting nominated. If Willie Nelson or the Kingston Trio got nominated, the people who don't want their kind in the Hall would speak up and be called "rockist" too.

When I said "Not much objection", I was mainly referring to the regulars here. Those who contribute to the Rock Hall Revisited/Projected and Album and Song Projects. Again, not much discussion because those acts haven't been getting nominated to stimulate discussion.

You're the one who made it about race when you said "gangbanger."

If unimpeachable character was a requirement for a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, there would be no Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, period. The sooner you drop that from your requirements list, the sooner you can be taken seriously.

Excessive saturation is another topic entirely.

And your rainbow ice cream analogy doesn't work because those boundaries cannot be cleanly determined by the common spoon. Also, all color works on a spectrum and slowly roll and bleed into each other. So it is with Rock And Roll. The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is about recognizing not just the purists' definition of rock'n'roll, but all of its children and pieces of evolution. That includes rap, soul, disco, metal, prog, rockabilly, surf, grunge, doo-wop, etc. They are family, and they are appropriately housed together.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 13:33pm

You all hear that? That's the sound of a mic being dropped by Philip.

Posted by Greg on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 14:35pm

The top vote getter last year had 18 million votes. Chicago is on the verge of crossing 6 million in two days.

Posted by Greg on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 15:30pm

Dezmond,

I am glad somebody at least responded to that. Jerry Lee Lewis is one of the Oldest examples. I was simply saying that the old Inductees would more likely base their Votes on their Upbringing. In the Case of Elton John He could probably Vote for Chicago as well as Chaka Khan and Others like the Spinners. I remember he enjoyed Soul and particularly the Philly sound. I was simply saying its More likely Steve Tyler would Vote for Deep Purple than Lets say the Guys in Steely Dan who I know love Jazz Fusion and Jazz Rock. Anything is possible. Im just taking into account with who may be more likely. That's Why I go with Cars Chicago and Yes as the most likely. In fact I could see the Guys in the Grateful Dead as Voting for Yes. Even though The Yes sound is somewhat further away from what they do. Although Terrapin Station was kinda Prog.

I guess I was stereotyping but Not completely. I was simply about Votes for the various Nominees.
In any Case I figure based on the Voting Body and the Judges it would not just be All Classic Rock since lots and lots of Different Inductees Can Vote.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 15:31pm

Philip is here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and he's all out of bubblegum,

Posted by Gassman on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 16:51pm

Chicago is the all-time best selling act and highest Billboard charting act on this year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ballot. It makes sense that they are number one in the official Rock and Roll Hall of Fame fan poll and the Future Rock Legends poll because this is Chicago!

The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys, The Bee Gees, Chicago!

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 16:54pm

"This will be the last 'Heinz 57' catchup ballot for awhile when several first-balloters could eventually get in the next few years (PJ, Alanis, Radiohead, Beck, etc)."

Pearl Jam and Radiohead, sure. Alanis Morissette? Influential but not innovative one-album wonder who subsequently released increasingly poorly-received copycat albums over time until she was forgotten. She was basically the Boston of the '90s and Boston haven't been considered yet (nor should they be until a lot of others are in). She probably has an edge since the Hall wants to have women on the ballot, but I think they would probably go for a bunch of others first (Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Kate Bush, Sheryl Crow, Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, possibly Liz Phair - also one album wonder but a much bigger critical smash, probably not P.J. Harvey due to lack of mainstream popularity)... And I don't think any of those had the mixture of popularity/critical acclaim to be first ballot. And Beck will get in but he's too offbeat to get in quickly if other acts that also fused many genres and were more popular and more critically acclaimed like the Beastie Boys didn't make it first-ballot either.

If Smashing Pumpkins didn't make the ballot I'm not seeing any first-ballot inductees besides Pearl Jam/Radiohead for a long time.

"Gun to my head, I'd say Deep Purple is the one that misses out from the classic rock list once again. The influence is there, but not the catalog of hits that the others seem to have."

That would be disappointing since they likely have more innovation/influence than any of the other classic rock acts except for maybe The Cars. But they already did miss against Rush and Heart, which was a surprise then.

And rockist a racist term? There are probably people who would support Living Colour or Tracy Chapman (actually I could easily see either of those sneaking in randomly/unexpectedly pretty soon like Los Lobos) who wouldn't support Eminem or whatever. Presumably most rockists would take that position. If they also opposed Living Colour/Tracy Chapman while supporting metal/folk rock acts of maybe a similar tier like The Cult/Suzanne Vega or whatever then and only then would the rockism become racism.

Posted by Sean on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 16:59pm

And I am referring to Alanis as a one-album wonder critically. I know she was still popular after that, but so was Boston, who is also a one-album wonder only critically but had other hit albums after that, so I think the point still stands.

Posted by Sean on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:00pm

As far as The NIN question, after poking around the internet a bit it seems that a large bulk of NIN and Smiths fans don't even know this is happening.

They'll likely pick up over the next few weeks.

Posted by DarinRG on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:10pm

How is Cheap Trick polling at sub 1% when the rest of the classic rock acts are all at 15%? Everybody's just voting for the other five and ignoring them? That's what's blowing my mind more than NIN.

I'd say Steve Miller is probably the worst of the six classic rock acts (although Chicago's worst is way worse than any of the others' worst...) and I expected him to be trailing, relatively. Admittedly, he was more popular than Cheap Trick and Cheap Trick's critical peak (late '70s, when they were not popular) and commercial peak (late '80s, when they had kind of become a joke...I actually like "The Flame" but definitely think it sucks) coming at different times may be hurting them.

Posted by Sean on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:16pm

A Rockist's Wet Dream

THE 2016 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES

01. Chicago
02. The Cars
03. Cheap Trick
04. Deep Purple
05. Yes
06. Steve Miller

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:19pm

I think the thing is that NIN/The Smiths fans don't care. Classic rock fans do.

Anyways actual predictions:
NWA/Nine Inch Nails (either/or unfortunately, even though they should both be no-brainers)
Janet Jackson (huge push for her to get in, and I don't think the voters would be too against if Madonna got in first-ballot)
Yes (Chris Squire's death gives them an edge over the other classic rock acts, not to say they will be the only)
Chicago (*sigh* fan vote, even though there are more deserving acts from that era, I guess it is the hall of FAME. Would prefer Deep Purple or Kraftwerk [even though they aren't nominated])
Cheap Trick (The Van Zandt endorsement will help them I think, at least they aren't the J.Geils Band)

Posted by dank on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:23pm

3 of the 15 nominees for the 2016 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame are in the Top 10 on Future Rock Legends Most Votes list:

02. Janet Jackson
08. Deep Purple
10. Chicago

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:25pm

What are you talking about? Deep Purple is nominated.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:27pm

Yeah, that one is interesting, too. In general Cheap Trick seems to have a broader cross genre appeal than the other 70s nominees, so I'm surprised by the low vote total. It's clearly one demographic hitting the poll hard right away.

Posted by DarinRG on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:28pm

"I think the thing is that NIN/The Smiths fans don't care. Classic rock fans do."

Pretty much.

Posted by DarinRG on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:30pm

I was only referring to Kraftwerk there.

Posted by dank on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 17:37pm

Does anyone remember what year the Rock Hall start the fan poll? Was it 2010 for the 2011 induction, 2011 for the 2012 induction, 2012 for the 2013 induction? If you have images of the final vote tallies please post them.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 20:44pm

2013 ceremony, always remember that was the year Rush swept the fan ballot. Rush, Kiss and Stevie Ray Vaughan all finished first in the fan ballot and was inducted that year. If that trend continues, Chicago will have an even stronger chance getting inducted this year (they are currently #1 on the fan ballot).

Posted by Nick on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 20:55pm

2013 ceremony, always remember that was the year Rush swept the fan ballot. Rush (2013), Kiss (2014) and Stevie Ray Vaughan/Double Trouble (2015) all finished first in the fan ballot and was inducted those years. If that trend continues, Chicago will have an even stronger chance getting inducted this year (they are currently #1 on the fan ballot).

Posted by Nick on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 20:57pm

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Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 20:59pm

Ok, now that the initial excitement is down, can we talk about how stupid it would be to induct Steve Miller without his "band?" Every single one of the albums, including the ones with their biggest or most memorable tracks are listed as "The Steve Miller Band." The only one that did not was 1988's "Born 2 B Blue."

Its not hard to pick the other band members. Hell, based on the amount of albums they've appeared on and which albums specifically (namely, the "bigger" albums hold a bit more weight,) these musicians are all worthy:

Lonnie Turner
Gary Mallaber
Norton Buffalo
Byron Allred
Gerald Johnson
Kenny Lee Lewis
Greg Douglass

Thoughts on this? Maybe if there's enough of an outcry, there can be a switch like last year with SRV & DT.

Posted by Steve Z on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 21:06pm

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Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 21:17pm

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Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 21:56pm

It has been a little under 48 hours since the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee announced the 15 artists/bands that are up for induction for 2016. This does not include who will be honored as Non-Performers, Early Influences or the Award for Musical Excellence. Bear in mind it is possible like last year that the biggest headlining inductee could go in through the back door, if you will. Such is how Ringo Starr got inducted last year. Now, onto my focus on the nominees this year.

Well, I thought I was surprised with how the 2014 and 2015 classes turned out; considering some great artists finally got inducted. But I can honestly say I was not in the least prepared for this bunch of nominees! It will be amazing to see which 7 I think will be inducted. Now before I offer my opinion on these artists, what do I think about the recent shake ups the NomCom and the RRHOF itself has gone through?

I think we at Future Rock legends have a legitimate reason to believe we have greatly influenced the outcomes of the more recent induction classes, particularly since we started the Revisited/Projected Rock Hall Project. One only needs to look at our most recent Revisited/Projected election, when Bill Withers and Lou Reed got inducted into our Hall of Fame a week after the 2015 nominations were announced; and in December both got inducted into the RRHOF! For the most part, we are not the industry nor the experts. What we are though are a collection of fans and amateur historians that truly are well versed in Rock and Roll and recorded music. What are our favorites become favorites of others new to understanding what good music is. We have thus been able to reach a wider audience through this website and frankly the NomCom has taken notice, even if they refuse to admit it.

I also think the RRHOF has come to realize that they cannot just limit themselves to Jann Wenner's personal record collection. It pleases me and others to see artists that years ago would never get to sniff the Hall have now entered their good graces; and yes I did feel a bit of personal validation when my constant badgering of the RRHOF to induct Peter Gabriel ended when Gabriel actually did go in. If anything, we have shifted from inducting artists in Jann Wenner's collection to those in the personal collections of the Houser Brothers (creators of Grand Theft Auto). Now that collection seems more interesting.

So, my look at each nominee and their chances at an induction.

Yes: they are going in. It should have occurred before Chris Squire died; yet this is the best way to honor one of the greatest art-rock bands to have ever existed.

Janet Jackson: she is going in. It has been a long time coming, and honestly it couldn't have occurred a while back. None the less, it is the perfect time for Janet to be honored.

N.W.A.: they will be going in. I expect Dr. Dre to get inducted on his own probably in two or three years from now as well. This though is the best time for N.W.A., amongst the best in their fields, to be included.

Nine Inch Nails: Trent Reznor and/or others will be inducted. They came close last year, and since NIN are effectively the most recent of nominees, a much needed induction will happen.

Chic: this will go one of two ways. Either Chic will be inducted as Performers, or Chic will receive the Award for Musical Excellence. This has gone far enough. Nile Rodgers should not have to wait to join Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson in the afterlife to enjoy this great reward.

Chicago: a personal favorite for myself and my family. I suppose hell has frozen over; already Chicago leads the fan ballot, and it looks like they will lead in the end and will be inducted. About time if it happens.

The Cars: my seventh pick should it go to seven. Easily amongst the more iconic 1980s bands to have gained a second wind with MTV.

Steve Miller: a very versatile artist that I hope one day gets a well deserved induction. I am not too sure this will be the year, what with so many other worthy nominees. Yet, Steve Miller is the most blues-centric artist nominated this year, so anything is possible.

The Smiths: it would be awesome for them to go in. I doubt Morrissey or Johnny Marr would show up (maybe Morrissey), but no reconciliation will ever happen. We can dream though.

Deep Purple: this might happen. Then again, unlike the other bands considered, we know for a fact that the current Deep Purple have major problems with past living members; and yes, that namely means Ritchie Blackmore. I suspect the hesitation for an induction does involve who will show up; and what sort of fighting there may be. We will find out one day, though maybe not this day.

The Spinners: this would be a good time for an induction with only One of the original members still alive. Yet, it might not be this year.

Cheap Trick: I am rather pleased they got nominated. Who knows, perhaps an induction is forthcoming. Yet if that does happen, Robin, Rick and Tom need to reconcile with Bun E. as soon as can be. I doubt this happens.

The J.B.'s: I cannot see them going in as Performers. Maybe the Award for Musical Excellence should Chic actually get inducted through the front door. None the less, we did induct Fred Wesley, Jabo Starks and Clyde Stubblefield as sidemen in our Revisited/Projected elections; so this helps quite a bit.

Chaka Khan: let me point out that I do not have Chaka Khan on my shortlist for Revisited/Projected this year. In any case, I think Janet Jackson's pending induction will suffice this year. Perhaps one day.

Los Lobos: were any of you surprised as I was? Well, perhaps more people will look at Los Lobos more deeply than their late 1980s commercial peak. Having mentioned that, it is an honor for Los Lobos just to be nominated, as I doubt they will get inducted. They are also not on my Revisited/Projected shortlist.

So there you have it. As I mentioned before, I would have posted more earlier, yet life got in the way. Now let us move forward to our Crown Jewel and to give the NomCom some ideas in the days and months ahead. Let me know what you fellow posters think about these opinions. It should be an interesting few weeks to come.

Can someone explain to me the saying "Bye Phelicia"?,

Lax32

Posted by Lax32 on Friday, 10/9/2015 @ 22:31pm

I will Move on very Soon. I just show a few more examples. I am playing Bob Dylan at this moment. It occurred to me who he may Vote for. He is one of the Oldest Inductees. He is personally diverse. It is Hard to say with Good Old Bob. I think perhaps as a Guess. Chicago, The JBs and Steve Miller. He would remember Steve Millers Blues which I know he likes. Older guys like Johnnny Cash rest in Peace have come to know Nine Inch Nails. So that's possible. Now Neil Young another great Old Inductee could Vote for the Cars Chicago and maybe even Deep Purple. He has supported Harder Rock at times. You never know. I don't how many the Voters get to Vote for. It's all speculation. I am saying based on the Voting body Deep Purple may not get enough Votes. Even Neil may Vote for them. I don't think that enough in the Voting Body would Vote for them or Cheap Trick. It's not so likely that the Lovin Spoonful guys James Taylor or Jackson Browne would vote for Deep Purple. There is a lot of Inductees of different types that get to Vote. Ok I'm done with this point.

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 07:52am

Ben, I understand what you are saying. I was just saying to be careful. On Neil Young, for instance, I don't know the man, but he is my favorite artist so I have read a lot about him. I know, for instance, that Neil is a big fan of Kraftwerk. You might not guess that by just listening to his music (other than 'Trans'). But I bet when Kraftwerk was on previous ballots, Neil probably voted for them. I guess I'm just saying don't assume just because a certain artist mostly plays a certain type of music that they would automatically vote for similar sounding artists. That is what Roy had done so maddenly in the past. Fortunately he seems to have backed off that practice.

Posted by Dezmond on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 08:27am

On Los Lobos. They are still a longshot, but not as much of a longshot as many of you think. The casual listeners out there probably just remember "La Bamba." But they actually have a long and deep catalogue. But more importantly, they are very respected in the industry (aka, the voters). They (and separately, the members of Los Lobos) have worked with a lot of artists. That helps too.

Although I can probably guess that Paul Simon will not be voting for them. Los Lobos played on a song on 'Graceland,' and when Simon did not credit them with a co-writing credit, things got nasty. They didn't go to court over it, but Los Lobos has been pretty vocal in the media over the years about Paul Simon ripping them off.

Posted by Dezmond on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 08:32am

Oh no, the Cars have taken over Chicago in the poll!

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 08:55am

The top 5 on the fan vote are probably the most populist acts on the ballot: The Cars, Chicago, Yes, Deep Purple, and Steve Miller (Band). I like these artists so don't get me wrong but this fan ballot is really out-of-hand. It makes sense to me why those would appeal to various classic rock fans but this fan ballot is totally out-of-control and I don't think I get take it seriously this year. Think about it, the top 5 have 12 Million votes each, then the next artist Janet Jackson has 7 Million votes and then the rest of the artists have between 750,000 and 140,000 votes each. People are obviously voting multiple times for their favorite artists and this isn't even close at this point between the top 5 and the other 10 artists. Personally I think it takes the fun and integrity of the fan ballot.

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 10:22am

Roy, I did improve my Point that Bob Dylan could vote for Nine Inch Nails. Seems opposite but they are Revolutionary and he's Revolution. Neil Young could vote for Deep Purple even though most of his Various albums are totally different. He has supported Hard Rock at times. Stevie Nicks could vote for Deep Purple and perhaps the Cars. It doesn't show up in F Mac's music but I think I read she likes some Hard Rock and New Wave herself. Nine Inch Nails may b too extreme for her so less likely.

2 more. Whoever is alive in the Dave Clark Five.
I seem to have read they are not that in touch
with later genres. I read things. Perhaps Chicago and Steve Miller. With them from what I know Steve Miller is stretching. Also Neil Diamond Perhaps Chicago And Steve Miller
THAT'S IT on that. My point on all this is Deep Purple and Cheap Trick may be harder than people think. It's not just up to Tom Morello and guys like Zep and Aerosmith. Votes from Unlikelys like Dave Clark Five and Neil Diamond would have to come to. I am aware Deep Purple did one of his tunes in 68. Don't mean he Loves them

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 10:52am

Nick,

If they wanted to the hall could have limited votes, but it gives an advantage to hackers who know how to get around limits. I think you are missing the point. 20+ years??? It's a message.


Ben,

I think you will get a better idea of who somebody will vote for by looking at who they worked with and who they have made positive comments on. Another thing is who knows who that has a friend.

a couple examples:

Peter Cetera wears a Bauhaus t-shirt in the You're The Inspiration video. Who would have thought?

I have been researching Chicago artists and it's interesting to see subtle connections between artist from Chicago. It is almost like a spider web.

Peter Cetera's high school friend. Marty Grebb, played in Bonnie Raitt's band. Bonnie Raitt played on one of Peter Cetera's albums. Another Chicagoan, John Prine had one of his songs, Make Me an Angel was recorded by Bonnie Raitt and he performed with her on stage. Paul Anka paid for John Prine and Steve Goodman's air fare to go to New York to get more exposure. Petera Cetera sings back-up on one of Paul Anka's songs.

Dezmond,

I am familiar with Los Lobos because of La Bamba. I did come across their version of the classic, Guantanamera. They did a mariachi take on it and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Unfortunately I am not familiar with most of their work, but I have heard them spoken about outside of La Bamba to realize that they were respected.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 12:01pm

Lax32, Donnie and Nick,

You have articulated clearly who you feel deserves to be inducted. Thank you very much for your opinions and analyses, I am still looking forward to reading Philip's, Charles Crossley's, Tom Lane's and of course, the opinions of Pope Charmings.


Meanwhile, I will list my favorite artists from this list of the 2016 Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame nominees from first to last:

01. Yes- yes, absolutely! Yes is second on my list of favorite bands, after Rush. Yes has frequently been referred to as the so-called "high priests" of progressive rock. Their classic songs, 'Roundabout,' 'Your Move/All Good People,' and 'Owner Of A Lonely Heart' are in regular rotation on f.m. And satellite radio. Their classic studio albums: "The Yes Album," "Fragile," "Close To The Edge" and "Going For The One" are loved by millions. As much as I talk about how much I like Rush, I have even more Yes recordings in my collection. Yes has been a seminal influence upon Rush since their earliest days. The late Chris Squire had wanted the members of Rush to induct Yes, perhaps that will happen next year.


02. Deep Purple- yes, absolutely. The recent unfortunate passing of keyboardist Jon Lord in 2012 had probably led to their first nomination in October, 2012. Deep Purple is known for their huge influence upon "hard rock" and "heavy metal." In fact, they are considered to be one of the godfathers of those genres. Originally, Mark I and some of Mark II Deep Purple was "progressive rock." They were also a major influence upon Rush. Mark III Deep Purple had also featured the magnificent vocals of David Coverdale and Glenn Hughes. "Burn" was an extraordinary recording, although Deep Purple is probably better known for "Machine Head" and "Deep Purple In Rock." My personal favorite Deep Purple songs are 'April' and 'Chasing Shadows' from their third album, "Deep Purple" and 'Burn' from "Burn" and 'Perfect Strangers' from "Perfect Strangers," although I do not dislike 'Smoke On The Water.'

03. Chicago- yes, absolutely. Zuzu and Roy must be ecstatic about this particular pick. I have been listening to the music of Chicago for well over 4 decades, due to their presence on the f.m. radio. I did not purchase my first Chicago compilation until 2012, however. I presently have only two studio albums by Chicago: "Chicago Transit Authority" and "Chicago."

04. The Cars- yes, absolutely. I only have "The Car's Greatest Hits." I have never owned any of The Cars' studio albums, unfortunately. My favorite songs by The Cars are: 'Just What I Needed,' 'Drive' and 'You Might Think.'


05. Steve Miller-yes, although I do not own a single studio album by him. I do like the songs, 'Fly Like An Eagle' and 'Abracadabra' however.


06. The Spinners- yes. A colleague of mine from work is very familiar with their catalogue.

07. Chaka Khan- yes. I am not terribly familiar with her songs, except for 'I Feel For You.'

08. Los Lobos- maybe. other than their songs on the "La Bamba" Soundtrack, I am not familiar with their other work.

09. Chic- maybe, due to their influence. Personally, I think that Nile Rodgers should be inducted as a producer and given the Ahmet Ertegun award, instead.

10. The J.B.'s - maybe, due to their connection to the late James Brown.

11. Nine Inch Nails- maybe. Other than Trent Reznor's appearance in "Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage," and his Academy award win, I know almost nothing about 'Nine Inch Nails,' other than their very twisted video of 'Closer.'


12. Cheap Trick- maybe. I am only familiar with 'Dream Police'
and 'Surrender.' There has been a huge number of people who have been touting Cheap Trick for years.

13. The Smiths- no, Morrissey is too whiny! ;-)

14. Janet Jackson- No, absolutely not! One colleague of mine had voted for her induction only because he likes her nipples. Are you kidding me? Outside of her acting ability, I have numerous reasons for disliking Janet Jackson which would probably take me days, months, or possibly even years, to explain. If she had written her own music and her own lyrics, then I would be inclined to vote maybe. However, I really think that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis should be inducted, instead. Since most people are only familiar with her striptease act, her appearance on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine with her boyfriend cupping her breasts and her lip synching in concert, I would be inclined to vote no, definitely not. Nobody that I know, or will admit to purchasing, that I know of, has ever purchased a single album of hers. Personally, her work does not resonate with me in any way, shape, or form. I wonder who had sponsored the huge hype machine surrounding her nomination and induction?


15. N.W.A. - Hell no, absolutely not! actually Injuring, or assaulting any woman is not unacceptable under any circumstances, whatsoever, unless of course, she is trying to kill you and you are in danger of being killed. Then you are entitled to defend your life, but attempting to throw someone down a staircase, pushing them against the wall and hitting them in the back of the head is unforgivable. Physically assaulting anyone should never be supported, nor rewarded, under any circumstances, whatsoever.

Of course, lyrics which espouse hatred, racism, misogyny and homophobia are completely unwarranted also.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 13:17pm

I don't know how to whip up a bot to get Chicago back at # 1.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 13:36pm

Chicago is back at # 1 now!

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 13:39pm

To Nick, Ben and Zuzu

Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, Barry Gibb, The Beach Boys, The Rolling Stones, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Genesis and Earth, Wind & Fire, Rush, Guns 'N Roses will be among the inductees who will vote for Chicago.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 13:59pm

Enigmaticus,

I have big smile on my face for Chicago. I would love to see Chaka Khan get in but I'm not too hopeful. She is from Chicago and I grew up not too far from where she grew up. I think chances for her both solo and with Rufus would have been better if more Chicago area artist were already in.

There are 2 You Tube videos of her appearance with Peter Cetera on the Arsenio Hall show - 1 performing and 1 interview. Also look up her credits on Allmusic. She was highly in demand for her exceptional vocals. Steve Winwood said she was the person everybody wanted to sing with on their songs. She has a ton of Grammies.

I hope that helps you in determining her worthiness and chances for the hall.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 14:08pm

Roy,

Do you have something concrete or are you speculating?

I would also look at possibilities for: David Gilmour, Bonny Raitt, Billy Joel, Abba, Madonna, Joni Mitchell, Prince, Rush and who is still alive from the Dells and Paul Butterfield.

Some other things to consider:

The Exceptions were playing at some of the clubs were celebrities would drop in and perform.

What artist did the Exceptions open for or back up that have been inducted?

Danny, Walt and Terry were part of the Dick Clark traveling show with other bands - were any of them inducted?

Jimmy, Walt and Lee did a lot of studio work for other artist.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 14:44pm

I had need to rewrite this:

14. Janet Jackson- no, absolutely not!

One colleague of mine had voted for her, only because he likes her nipples. Are you kidding me? That has to be the lamest excuse that I have ever head for voting for someone. Outside of her very impressive acting ability, which I actually like, I have numerous reasons for disliking Janet Jackson. These reasons would probably take me days, months, or possibly even years to elucidate fully. If she had written her own lyrics and her own music, then I would be inclined to vote, maybe. However, I think that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis should be inducted, instead. Since most people are only familiar with her badly executed striptease act, her topless appearance on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine with her boyfriend cupping her breasts and her lip synching in concert, I would be inclined to vote no, definitely not. Nobody that I know of, has ever purchased, or will admit to purchasing a single album of hers? So, how did she sell so many recordings? Personally, her body of work does not resonate with me on any level, nor in any way, shape, or form. I definitely wonder who has sponsored the huge hype machine responsible for her nomination and possible induction?

15. N.W.A.- Hell no, absolutely not!

Actually injuring, or assaulting any women is not acceptable under any circumstances whatsoever, unless of course, she is trying to kill you and your life is in danger. Then, in that unlikely instance, you are entitled to defend your life. However, chasing somebody, throwing them against a wall and attempting to throw them down a flight of stairs and then punching them in the back of the head while they are fleeing is totally unforgivable. Physically assaulting anyone should never be supported, nor rewarded under any circumstances, whatsoever.

Of course, writing lyrics which espouse hatred, racism, misogyny and homophobia are completely unwarranted also. I do not care if wealthy white kids like their beat, either. If you think that I dislike Janet, I like AC/DC, a band who I strongly detest, much more than I do N.W.A.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 14:47pm

I'm torn on this. On one hand, I love all the acts that received little or no recognition in the past (Chicago, Deep Purple, etc.) finally showing up here. As others have noted, no singer-songwriters could lead to something pretty interesting.

On the other hand, it shocked me to see no new artists from the current crop show up. Unlike next yr., where you have Pearl Jam, 2-Pac, and a whole lot of long shots, this yr. had all sorts of potential. No Pumpkins, no AIC, no Blur... no anything. It's a real stunner.

Perhaps they've finally woken to the fact that a few of these acts may not be around too much longer, & they really do wish to acknowledge them.

My personal ballot:

The Cars
Chicago
Deep Purple
The Spinners
Steve Miller
Yes

I have nary a clue as to what it really will be.

What would be interesting is if they did elect a heavy, classic-oriented line-up this yr., and then went nearly all modern next yr. Try this for next yrs. ballot:

Pearl Jam
2-Pac
Pumpkins
AIC
Blur
(?) - maybe Janet Jackson ? - The Smiths ?

It would be a pleasant switch, though I doubt it'll turn out this way.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:01pm

Dezmond,
I meant to respond to you Not Roy. I got mixed up
I am looking to end this topic soon. Real soon. So you see I am taking into account some personal taste of the artist. Bob Dylan is about 74 I think. I am a huge fan. I read a Book on him and Own 30 albums of his. So As old as he is I could see him Voting for Nine Inch Nails because he was a revolutionary. He may not but it is possible. He's the Oldest Inductee I could see doing that. The 60s was the first decade to produce revolutionaries. Dylan was revolutionary in the 60s NIN revolutionary in the 90s. I still don't think NIN will garner enough Votes. There is plenty Younger than Old Bob that are probably too conservative for them.

Dezmond and Zuzu,
I think the guys in Queen could Vote for Chic. Another One Bites the Dust was inspired by Good Time. A tune I hate but they like I think. I read about their respect for Nile Rodgers. I mean I am sure they would also Vote for Deep Purple as part of the Hard Rock community they kinda share. So I Totally agree. You get a better idea on Votes on who they worked with and made positive comments about. Queen is a good example.

Let's take David Byrne. He is a revolutionary in his time. Late 70s and early 80s. He is diverse. So I can see him Voting for the Cars and NIN.

Now I think Yes can get plenty of Votes. I want them in Badly. Well there is the guys in Queen perhaps to Vote for them. Genesis Rush Of course and Pink Floyd guys. There is also some other music officianados that Vote. Steely Dan's Becker and Fagan certainly could. Hey you never know Donovan may find Yes mystical and Vote for them. I could see Heart voting for Yes perhaps. Peter Gabriel certainly. There are some possibilities.

Again my point in the beginning is certain Classic Rockers may not get in Now like Deep Purple. The Hall voters are diverse body and the Hall likes diversity. So my list of Inductees stays. This is to say that Janet Jackson may Block some Classic Rock for example. That is unfortunate but probable to Happen. I own nothing of her and Proud of that. Not my Bag at all. I do like Chaka Khan though who I also predict.

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:02pm

To FRL

Quote from the Rock Hall Fan Poll Page:

Vote now – and vote often – for the TOP FIVE nominees you think should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! The fan votes will comprise a fans’ ballot that will be tallied along with the other ballots to choose the 2016 inductees to be announced in December!

This means the 82 million votes makes sense because people were told to vote often.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:04pm

I had definitely needed to rewrite this:

14. Janet Jackson- no, absolutely not! One colleague of mine had voted for her, only because he likes her nipples. Are you kidding me? That has to be the lamest excuse that I have ever heard for voting for someone.

Outside of her very impressive acting ability, which I actually do like, I have numerous reasons for disliking Janet Jackson.

Those reasons would probably take me days, months, or
possibly even years to elucidate fully. If she had written her own lyrics and her own music, then I would be inclined to vote,
maybe. However, I think that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
should be inducted as songwriters instead. Since most people are only familiar with her badly executed striptease act, her topless appearance on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine with her boyfriend cupping her breasts and her lip synching in concert, I would be inclined to vote no, definitely not. Nobody that I know of, has ever purchased, or will admit to ever having purchased a single album of hers? So, how did she sell so many recordings and who purchased them?

Personally, her body of work does not resonate with me on
any level, or in any way, shape, or form. I definitely wonder
who has sponsored the huge hype machine responsible for her nomination and possible induction?

15. N.W.A.- Hell no, absolutely not!

Actually injuring, or assaulting any woman is not acceptable under any circumstances whatsoever, unless of course, she is trying to kill you and your life is in danger. Then, in that unlikely instance, you are entitled to defend your life. However, chasing somebody, throwing them up against a wall and attempting to throw them down a flight of stairs and then punching them in the back of the head while they are fleeing from you, is totally unforgivable. Physically assaulting anyone should never be supported, nor rewarded under any circumstances, whatsoever.

Of course, writing lyrics which espouse hatred, racism, misogyny and homophobia are completely unwarranted also. I do not care if wealthy white kids like their beat, either. If you think that I dislike Janet, I happen to like AC/DC, a band who I strongly detest, much more than I do N.W.A. How much more, you might ask? Try, 10 to the power of a googolplex more.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:05pm

Of the nominees, I'll list them in the order that I like them...

1. Chicago (I'm not as much of a fanatic as Roy and Zuzu on them, but they are my favorite among the nominees)

2. Janet Jackson (huge Janet fan, grew up with her music as a kid in the late 80's and 90's)

3. The Cars (such a great run of hit singles and an innovative sound for their time)

4. Deep Purple (one of the best hard rock bands ever, period)

5. N.W.A. (yeah their lyrics are questionable at times, but their music was great and still sounds fresh today)

6. The Steve Miller Band (another great run of songs in the 70's. Their late 60's work is also underrated)

7. The Spinners (my favorite R&B vocal group of the 1970's with the O'Jays)

8. Yes (the kings of progressive rock, though I'm honestly not a die-hard fan, great band nonetheless).

9. Nine Inch Nails (I like a lot of other 90's rock bands much better, but still NIN are great)

10. Chic (probably the best disco band ever, who had a great run of singles in that era)

11. Chaka Khan (a truly magnificent and gifted singer, either with Rufus or on her own, she's one of the most underrated singers ever, IMO)

12. Cheap Trick (I'm honestly not a major fan, certainly like many other rock enthusiasts are, but I enjoy some of their work, particularly the two songs they did for the Heavy Metal soundtrack in 1981)

13. The J.B.'s (until two days ago I had never heard a single song of theirs, well not knowingly anyway, as I have heard their songs for many years, for as long as I've heard Public Enemy, Eric B. and Rakim, and many other school rap artists. But I actually listened to an album of their on Spotify yesterday, and their work was really bad-ass. Great, underrated group)

14. The Smiths (I'm not really a fan of the Smiths and never have been. "How Soon is Now? and "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" are the only two Smiths songs I really like. I was thoroughly disappointed when I bought the Queen is Dead many years ago, so I can't really say I'm a fan. But they're still one of the greatest bands of the 1980's and a shoe-in for the HOF. Just not my cup of tea.

15. Los Lobos (the band I know the least of, although I like some of the songs on the How Will the Wolf Survive? album, as well as the La Bamba soundtrack. Most of their earlier work is in Spanish, and as much as I hate to say it, I have a hard time enjoying music sung in foreign languages. I know that's bad, but I just can't help it).

Posted by Donnie on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:06pm

The Beach Boys and the Bee Gees sang back-up on a couple of Chicago albums in the 70s.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:07pm

To FRL

Quote from the Rock Hall Fan Poll Page:

Vote now – and vote often – for the TOP FIVE nominees you think should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! The fan votes will comprise a fans’ ballot that will be tallied along with the other ballots to choose the 2016 inductees to be announced in December!

This means the 82 million votes makes sense because people were told to vote often.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10.10.15 @ 15:04pm

So 13 million of Chicago's votes are coming from Roy.

Posted by Dezmond on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:28pm

Alice Cooper has long been advocating for Deep Purple, so I'm pretty he'll throw a vote towards Deep Purple. I also remember back in the early 2000's when VH1 did their 100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock countdown, he talked positively about Yes, so I would assume he would vote for them as well.

He might vote for Nine Inch Nails and Cheap Trick as they're both hard rock bands. I'd assume he'd round out his ballot with the Cars or possibly the Steve Miller, Chicago, or the Spinners.

Posted by Donnie on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:29pm

Zuzu, you missed the point I made before. Right I understand that the masses are "getting their point across" with the top 5 on the ballot, but how can you take this fan ballot seriously now? The point that I made was that the fan ballot loses a lot of integrity when classic rock fanboys are constantly casting vote after vote for the same 5 acts. It isn't even a fair contest giving the differences are now in the millions. It was fun to cast and constantly check how the fan ballot was doing the last couple of years, now it's at a standstill and it seems very, very unlikely any of the other 10 nominees can come close to catch up. This all stems from the Rock Hall not limiting the number of times a person can vote from their device. There are no hackers; rather, it's unlimited voting this year. Maybe the Rock Hall is doing this because the fan ballot really doesn't matter in the long run (just 1 ballot of the 800+ ballots). The 3 previous years they controlled and monitored the number of times someone can vote for the fan ballot. This is just getting ridiculous now. Kudos to FRL for not having such a skewed voting system.

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:42pm

Now wait a minute Dezmond. Don't I get any credit? ;)

I see a very good possibility of over a billion votes. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more artist topped a billion votes. The top 5 are less then 1 percentage point apart. Probably several people are voting for all 5 together. That last week and especially the last day or 2 will be complete mayhem on that site. I hope they make sure they have the capacity to handle the traffic because the site has already crashed a few times.

The hall will pimp it for publicity. They will probably say a record number of over # votes were cast.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 15:51pm

FRL,
Here is a link to a website that gives the playlists on SiriusXM. One of the channels there is "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Radio" (Channel 310). If you look at the playlist since the day the nominations were announced (the last 2-3 days), they have been playing a different 2016 Rock Hall Nominee every 15 minutes until the inductees are revealed in 2 months. The only 2 artists NOT being played so far is Nine Inch Nails and N.W.A. I listen to Rock Hall Radio all the time and last year they played Nine Inch Nails quite a bit when they did the same thing with the 2015 Nominees. I wonder why Rock Hall Radio is not playing either artist (they didn't play N.W.A. since they've been nominated from 2013-now)? Also, they are playing Chicago, Yes, Janet Jackson, The Cars, and Steve Miller (Band) the most.

http://www.dogstarradio.com/search_playlist.php?artist=&title=&channel=310&month=&date=&shour=1&sampm=AM&stz=&ehour=12&eampm=AM

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 16:08pm

15. Los Lobos (the band I know the least of, although I like some of the songs on the How Will the Wolf Survive? album, as well as the La Bamba soundtrack. Most of their earlier work is in Spanish, and as much as I hate to say it, I have a hard time enjoying music sung in foreign languages. I know that's bad, but I just can't help it).

Posted by Donnie on Saturday, 10.10.15 @ 15:06pm

But the funny thing is, the vast majority of Los Lobos' songs are in English. And much of it is straight rock and roll, not just the Hispanic music influence. In fact, several of their albums are very experimental. Again, I refer you all to KIKO. An amazing album. You should all check it out. In my Top 10 albums of all time.

Posted by Dezmond on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 16:13pm

Nick,

This site has limits and yet somebody knows a way around it. A hacker does not need to break into a system. All they need to know is how the system sets limits and what are the means to get around those measures.

The singing competition shows block ip's outside the US. People outside the US get around it by going to sites that give them a US ip address.

I understand your frustration with wanting to see a true idea of what the public wants. The only way you will get that is with a well run survey sample.

Even on this site you have people that have no qualms with artist that have lied cheated and stolen from other artist and claimed it as their own original work and artist that have committed felonies such as rape and child molestation being inducted into the hall. There has been a shift over the decades from lying and cheating being shameful to being expected and cheered on. There are too many people out there that want to be validated and are willing to cheat to get that validation.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 16:18pm

Zuzu, there are no hackers; it's unlimited voting from any device and thus no restrictions. It's just that simple. I did say that FRL has a 1-vote limit per device. I guarantee the Rock Hall is doing this to say they had "x" amount of votes this year; I guarantee it. Why else would they allow it?

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 16:24pm

I'll take that back, maybe there are hackers at play in this year's fan ballot. The Rock Hall needs to address this issue.

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 17:01pm

Nick,

I agree totally that the hall is doing it for the publicity.

There are ways around the limits. I thought the limit was set by ip address. There might be a way around the device thing. A techie would know how to do it. I'm not sure if a shell account would work. I don't know how but I heard from a techie that using a shell can hide things but it may have been from the other direction.

There are companies that specialize in protecting their clients image. They would have the means to insure that surveys went their way.

One single individual could go to a library and go from one computer to another. Somebody that is really obsessed would also go to different libraries.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 17:05pm

Nick,

It is possible that there have been hacks. I saw it occur the other day and it was Janet's numbers that were increasing at a significantly high rate.
Any other increases or decreases have been at a steady rate. It is possible pros are involved where people are hired to run up numbers.

A system crashing can be from traffic but it can also be a sign of a hack. The crashes have not been long. I refresh and I get the page again so it is probably traffic related. It can also be related to the hall doing something to their computers.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 17:47pm

What I'm most surprised about is that there are none of the "recently departed" acts among the nominees. I would not have been surprised to see Lesley Gore, and I am very surprised not to see Joe Cocker and Ben E. King.

Posted by Joe on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 18:20pm

Zuzu,

The top five vote-getters are pulling a hundred votes per second. PER SECOND. These are not fan votes.

They could pull the poll down and re-upload with a Captcha. That would stop the bot problem.

Posted by dmg on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 18:57pm

dmg - I like the captcha idea. There's no point having a fan poll that's so easily rigged. This is truly shameful.

Posted by DarinRG on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 19:29pm

"But the funny thing is, the vast majority of Los Lobos' songs are in English. And much of it is straight rock and roll, not just the Hispanic music influence. In fact, several of their albums are very experimental. Again, I refer you all to KIKO. An amazing album. You should all check it out. In my Top 10 albums of all time." - Dezmond

I'll second the "Kiko" recommendation. Almost everybody is sleeping on Los Lobos, but they have the peer respect factor to potentially pull a Paul Butterfield.

Posted by DarinRG on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 19:33pm

dmg,

They should have done that from the start. The other day when the system was crashing Janet was moving up somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 at a shot. Maybe a bit closer to 2,000. It was going in spurts and would then go back down to a low point and the move up started again. The rhythm to the way her numbers were moving was not normal and now there have been no surges for the last 24 hours. That was pros and not a fan base. A fan base pattern is completely different. What was happening had more of the feel of pros checking in and making corrections and going away.

100 votes a second is nothing. I have seen numbers go up at a faster rate than that and that was with Captcha type entry. It is probably fairly consistent for the top 5 because a large number of people are picking those 5. The pattern to surges among the top 5 follows the normal rhythm.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 19:37pm

Zuzu,

Yes, they should have done that from the start. I agree on that. But it would be a travesty to not fix their mistake.

Also, 100 votes per second is NOT NORMAL, especially when it happens at ALL HOURS. You really think Chicago fans are legitimately voting 100 times a second at 3AM? Come on.

Posted by dmg on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 21:20pm

dmg,

They could do it now. I wish somebody would come up with a different system. Some of those codes are hard to read. Sometimes you can't tell a capital from a lower case letter.

I assume this poll is open world wide. Chicago has devout fans in the Philippines and Japan. The middle of the night is the best time to be on a poll. 100 at a low point is not funny. There were some points were it was going about 400 or 500. A fan base knows how to work a poll. What is abnormal behavior is a fan base gets their person to the top and goes away. You don't sit on the computer to get your person up only to let them drop all the way down. A fan base is just bot going to let that happen. That is what makes it look like hired help and not a fan base.

Have you ever heard the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Why is Chicago being singled out alone of the group of 5. I am sure several people are picking those as their 5 picks. Do you think that all the votes on here for Janet are fans. I am sure the family has hired pros to watch their backs on the internet.

dmg have you ever gotten on a free for all poll. I'm not sure how many of the voters are Sox fans, but they know how to work a poll. They got AJ, the most hated man in baseball voted in for the All-Stars.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/10/2015 @ 21:58pm

http://www.ranthollywood.com/2015/10/08/nominees-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-announced/

Nominees For 2016 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Announced

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 05:32am

http://www.stereogum.com/1836077/rock-hall-2016-nominees-include-the-smiths-nin-n-w-a-janet-jackson/news/

Rock Hall 2016 Nominees Include The Smiths, NIN, N.W.A, Janet Jackson

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 05:33am

http://theyoungfolks.com/music/tyf-discusses-the-2016-rock-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/65110/2

TYF Discusses the 2016 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 05:34am

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6722640/rock-roll-hall-fame-2016-nominees-analysis

Rock Hall of Fame 2016 Nominees: Perfect Timing for N.W.A, Plus 4 More Thoughts (Analysis)

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 05:36am

The last thing I'll say about the Voting Body is I heard that Bill Clinton is one of the Voters. Has anyone heard that. Well. Who will the former President Vote for? This is not political. He is a Music lover. He will most definitely Vote for Chicago. It is very Clear that hands down they should be an Inductee. Clinton may also Vote for Deep Purple and Steve Miller Band. He is an early Baby Boomer. He will probably Vote the way lots of other Bay Boomers do. I mean He could vote for Chaka Khan also from the 70s era into the 80s. I thought I read Voters get to Vote for 3. Not sure.

Soo moving on Chicago with combined force of the Fan Base Vote and the Voting Body I would say are a No Brainer. It's like Roy said the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Genesis Earth Wind & Fire and Rush are among the Inductees who will Vote for Chicago. When I drive in my Car soon I will be listening to Chicago II. I also own 2 Gr Hits. First 2 Volumes not Vol 3. I don't like their 80s. I do like them to some extent on all their stuff through the late 70s.

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 05:38am

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1128

THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME THREAD ON DDD

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 06:08am

http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/1568/The-Rock-And-Roll-Hall-Of-Fame

THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME THREAD ON CCJORHOF

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 06:10am

Roy,
Joe Walsh joined the Eagles in 1975 at the peak of their popularity. Plus he played on Hotel California (album), the biggest and most successful album of the Eagles' career. Walsh's guitar solo on "Hotel California" alone qualifies him as a worthy inductee alongside the Eagles. No debate here on Walsh.

Timothy B. Schmit might be a little more debatable since he joined after Hotel California. He sing lead vocals on "I Can't Tell You Why" but the band broke up in 1980 (only 1 year later).

Posted by Nick on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 09:39am

"I will update my Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction speech for Chicago to include the result of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame official fan poll."--Roy


Roy, we don't take kindly to open threats here.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 10:33am

It doesn't matter. The fan vote only counts as one extra vote for each one of the acts that finishes in the top five. It won't make a difference anyway. Chicago is going to win and it makes sense because they are the highest billboard charting act on this year's nominees list. The Chicago fans are out in full force. Chicago is this year's Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys and Bee Gees.

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 19:42pm

So I have a question. Do all the members go in for these groups. Chicago has had soo many members over the Years. I am certain You can give an opinion on that Zuzu.
Also with Deep Purple should I assume that Rod Evans the original Vocalist will not be Inducted. Is he still alive and Nicky Simper I recall was in the band Originally. What happens to David Coverdale?
Yes Have a similar deal with Members that Have come And Gone. Jeff Downes comes to mind. Also Trevor Rabin. I know the Hall has often gone with Famous line ups

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 20:49pm

FRL Fans & Regular Posters

I've seen some prediction RRHOF lists here over the last few months. Curious to see who is leading the points race. A few lists had 7 or 8 correct.

Pleasantly surprised on Cheap Trick & The Cars. I think this is the best slate of 15 nominees I can remember. Steve Miller clearly deserving.

On My Possible Inductees:1.Chicago-This year's Rush. A energetic and volumous fan base who are dedicated to get Chicago inducted. Sold 100+ million albums. Respected in music world. Deserving of honor.
2.Deep Purple. Influential and innovative. Cited by many hard rock & metal musicians as an influence. Incredible amount of talented singers & musicians. Blackmore,Lord,Coverdale, etc. Smoke On The Water Classic song. Their induction paves the way for Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead.
3.The Spinners. This could be their year. Rubberman Man, I'll Be Around classic songs. Only 1 original Spinner still alive. Like Deep Purple, The Spinners induction should open it up for Kool & The Gang, The Commodores & similar groups.
4.Janet Jackson. A JJ induction would be a good headliner for Ceremony and also a strong female selection. There are always cries for more female representation in the Hall. Control & Rhythm Nation classic albums. I like Black Cat.
5.YES. Should get many votes from Prog & the classic rock voters. One of the biggest snubs I keep hearing. Enig has recited their album list. My FAV song from them probably Owner Of A Lonely Heart.
6.Chic. Somehow, they will be voted in I believe. This is 10x now. N.W.A. or NIN could be the odd man out if this occurs.
You could make the argument for 10 inductees. Should be interesting voting the next few months. KING

Posted by KING on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 21:46pm

KING,

It's good to have you back. Although we do agree on many other artists, we will continue to disagree about Janet Jackson and I have no use whatsoever for N.W.A. However, I do agree with you about Chicago, Deep Purple, Yes and The Spinners. I was very disappointed that my "prog" class has not yet been inducted. Maybe, next year.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Sunday, 10/11/2015 @ 22:59pm

ENIGMATICUS

Always enjoy your Rush & Duran Duran posts to be sure. You know your Prog & Prog Adjacent bands inside and out. Disappointed Duran Duran & Moody Blues were not nominated but there is a strong ballot this year. It seems like Duran Duran was passed over again by the likes of The Smiths. Can't understand that when Duran Duran has greater longevity & volume of work.

On Janet Jackson:Not her biggest fan but like some of the music. Black Cat sounds hard rock or heavy metal to me. I think Control & Rhythm Nation were Classic albums. I'm not big on these singing and dancing groups but JJ has nice choreography and dance numbers. Don't know if being a Jackson helps or hurts. It might have gotten JJ a foot in the door but she made it on her own talent.

Hoping YES is inducted...That will help your prog groups. I would suspect Procol Harum & Moody Blues would be next. You were smart to amend your ballot late. Chicago & Steve Miller helped you pick up some more points. It is possible Queensryche will benefit in the future as prog metal makes more inroads. I like the Rush songs Time Stands Still & Limelight. You were right about Geddy Lee and his voice getting better as the years went by. We are in the month of Rushtober. Thought you would like that. Very happy my Los Lobos pick hit. Probably my best out of the blue pick since Peter Gabriel. KING

Posted by KING on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 03:13am

Enigmaticus,

I enjoy your Posts On Moody Blues as well As Rush and Duran Duran. Also Yes. I just want to say I am disappointed the Moody Blues and ELO are not dominated this year. So I am sorry to say Will only predict one Prog at a time from Now on. Next Year I will predict Moody Blues for the Prog.

The others had a Point that most of the Committee is not a big fan of them even though a bunch of them are from that era. Yes are on the Ballot. I say they will be Inducted due to the Passing of Chris Squire.

I do have to say even Though I am not a fan at all I think Janet Jackson is headed for the Hall. She is unfortunately A no Brainer. Her choreography and being a Jackson will get her in. It will Happen the way Michael the brother went in. I think The Hall wants to get Chic over with already. I hope I'm wrong but if I'm right We never have to worry about Chic again. Chaka Khan is one of the most talented R&B artist on the Ballot. They throw off the Strong Classic Rock but the Hall likes diversity.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 08:19am

So I have a question. Do all the members go in for these groups. Chicago has had soo many members over the Years. I am certain You can give an opinion on that Zuzu.

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 10.11.15 @ 20:49pm

Ben,

I can't speak for who would go in for the other groups but I can speak for Chicago. There is a committee that decides who goes in and who doesn't. The committee is somewhat inconsistent on their decisions so you never know what kind of logic they are going to use in a situation.

Chicago will definitely have the original and I feel that because of the lack of Hispanics and Latinos (they only have Los Lobos) for this years nominees, that Laudir de Oliveira, a Brazilian and Latino, will also be included. After that it gets pretty dicey.

I think the majority of Chicago fans would be happy with this line-up being inducted.

Roy is trying to make an argument for Bill Champlin, Jason Scheff and Tris Imboden. The only one that an argument can be made for is Bill Champlin. A lot of fans would not be happy with Chanplin and Scheff being added because of the rumor circulating that they were the ones that got Danny fired and a number of fans can not stand their vocals. There are some you tube videos were both sound pretty bad. also Champlin is credited for hooking Chicago up with David Foster. David Foster is not very much liked by older fans and a lot of people in general for changes he made to a several artist.

Then you have a couple that are listed as hired hands but were involved with Chicago at points that have some argument for relevance. I do not see Chicago being relevant after Peter Cetera was gone. I can see an argument being made for the 80's since 80's Chicago did influence metal prog and according to Who Sampled has been sampled by some r&b artist.

The important so called hired hands that have any importance are Chris Pinnick, Marty Grebb and Kenny Cetera. There is open question about Pinnick. Marty Grebb roomed with Terry. There are two you tube videos from the Merv Griffen Show where Grebb and Pinnick are introduced as members of the band. Kenny filled in after Laudir de Oliveira left and was involved with Chicago 17. Roy doesn't think so but I think all three involve a deeper look.

From a fan point of view Pinnick would be accepted for his guitar. Personally I would consider him before Champlin. Even if he isn't considered, I personally would love to have Marty Grebb sing for Terry. He is the only one that I have heard that can bring out a similar soulfulness that Terry had. There are videos of Marty Grebb singing Make Me Smile and Colour
My World on You Tube. He sounds better than anyone that has tried to fill in for Terry.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 08:55am

The 6 degrees of Rush separation posts are the best, keep them coming, they always make me smile.

You forgot...
Los Lobos - one of those guys had a mustache, Neil Peart had a mustache for many years, Los Lobos was clearly influenced by Neil's mustache

Posted by Classic Rock on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 09:32am

Thank you KING, Ben and SoTn,

Well, I am extremely disappointed that neither Duran Duran, or The Moody Blues, or the Electric Light Orchestra, or Sade, or Carly Simon were nominated this year; it is somewhat disheartening to say the least. Perhaps "Paper Gods" was too much of a dance album, perhaps the members of Duran Duran need to pull out their secret weapon, "Reportage." Perhaps Duran Duran should release a BluRay of their catalog of most recent videos also.

I certainly hope that Chicago, Deep Purple and Yes are finally inducted next year. I would be okay with an induction of The Spinners also.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 09:34am

The Cars

01. Ric Ocasek (1976–Present: vocals, guitar)
02. Elliot Easton (1976–Present: guitar)
03. Greg Hawkes (1976–Present: keyboards, synthesizer, percussion, saxophone, bass)
04. David Robinson (1976–Present: drums, percussion)
05. Benjamin Orr (1976–2000: vocals, bass)

Cheap Trick

01. Robin Zander (1974-Present: vocals, guitar)
02. Tom Petersson (1974-Present: bass)
03. Rick Nielsen (1974-Present: guitar)
04. Bun E. Carlos (1974-2010: drums)

Deep Purple

01. Rod Evans (1968-1969: vocals)
02. Nick Simper (1968-1969: bass guitar)
03. Ritchie Blackmore (1968-1975; 1984-1993: guitar; Rainbow)
04. Jon Lord (1968-1976; 1984-2002: organ, keyboards; Whitesnake)
05. Ian Paice (1968-1976; 1984-Present: drums, percussion; Whitesnake)
06. Ian Gillan (1969-1973; 1984-1989; 1992-Present: vocals, harmonica, percussion; Episode Six)
07. Roger Glover (1969-1973; 1984-Present: bass guitar; Episode Six, Rainbow)
08. David Coverdale (1973-1976: vocals; Whitesnake)
09. Glenn Hughes (1973-1976: bass guitar)
10. Steve Morse (1994-Present: guitars, vocals; Dixie Dregs, Kansas)

Yes

01. Jon Anderson (1968-2004: vocals, guitar)
02. Peter Banks (1968-1970: guitar)
03. Chris Squire (1968-2015: bass)
04. Tony Kaye (1968-1971; 1982-1994: keyboards)
05. Bill Bruford (1968-1972; 1990-1992: drums, King Crimson)
06. Steve Howe (1970-1981; 1990-1992; 1995-2004; 2008-Present: guitar; Asia, GTR)
07. Rick Wakeman (1971-1974; 1976-1980; 1990-1992; 1995-1997; 2002-2004: keyboards)
08. Alan White (1972-1981; 1982-2004; 2008–present: drums)
09. Patrick Moraz (1974-1976: keyboards, The Moody Blues)
10. Trevor Rabin (1982-1994: guitar, keyboards)

The Spinners

01. Henry Fambrough (1961-Present: vocals)
02. Bobbie Smith (1961-2013: vocals)
03. Pervis Jackson (1961-2008: vocals)
04. Billy Henderson (1961-2004: vocals)
05. George Cameron (1967-1972; 2000-2003: vocals)
06. Philippe Wynne (1972-1977: vocals)
07. John Edwards (1977-2000: vocals)

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 09:40am

Radio.com is in error about Peter Cetera singing the lead on Wishing You Were Here. Peter Cetera sang the bridge and backround harmonies with Beach Boy members. It was Terry that sang the lead on this song.

Hawk Wolinksi of Rufus played the moog on the studio version of this song. He is responsible for the sound of waves at the beginning of the song.

I am a bit disappointed in Chaka Khan is not even mentioned. I would love to see her perform Take Me Back to Chicago with Chicago since she was on the studio version. I would also like to see Chaka Khan and Peter Cetera perform their duet Feels Like Heaven. There are a couple of videos of them doing this song on the Arsenio Hall Show and the interview that followed.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 10:09am

Zuzu,

Which album is Wishing You Were Here on? I forget. I think it's On Chicago VII. Also How is that Album? I think Happy Man is on the same one. I've heard most of the first 10. That's the best ones to me. That's further than A lot go. A lot say first 3 and that's it. I think they had good stuff for most of the 70s. I've only owned Gr Hits albums for Years. I owned a bunch of the first 10 on Vinyl.

It makes sense for Chaka Khan to be inducted at the same time. She is recognized as a Talent too. Also I have never thought of her as Disco. I know that was discussed. There was both disco and Regular R&B in the late 70s. The Hall likes annoying us with Chic. So at least Chaka Khan makes things better.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 10:24am

Ben,

It's on VII. Happy Man is on that one as is Searchin So Long. It's not one of my personal favorite albums but a lot of people who are into Chicago's jazz elements like this one too. I personally think VIII is underrated. Several people like Brand New Love Affair Parts 1 & 2. This album also has: Anyway You Want, Hideaway, Oh, Thank You Great Spirit, Ain't It Blue and Old Days.

I prefer the live albums in most cases. The best one is the 72 Japan concert. The Toronto Bootleg isn't bad either. One of the best songs is Sing a Mean Tune Kid from Carnegie Hall. Peter Cetera's vocals are phenomenal on that one. You have to hear one that isn't digitally remastered because Peter Cetera's vocals do not sound right on those.

The three I would love to have inducted out of this group are Chicago (of Course :) ), Chaka Khan and Steve Miller. You have to look up Chaka on allmusic. If you check out her credits you will see how many artist wanted her to sing on their recordings. She sing across several genres. To me this show depth to her ability. I love how Peter Cetera said on the Arsenio Hall Show that they had to get a special mike because her powerful vocals would break the regular ones. He said she could belt it out one right after another all day. She is an immense vocal talent and I would be very disappointed to see somebody I consider undeserving get inducted instead.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 10:55am

I am going to start off by saying there is no way in hell The J.B.'s, Los Lobos or the Smiths are getting inducted in 2016. Chicago is definitely going to be inducted in 2016. Chicago is this year's Beatles, Rolling Stones, and Beach Boys on the ballot. Chicago is the top selling and highest Billboard charting act on the nominees list this year. They will win the Rock Hall's fan poll and win the votes of the Rock Hall committee and past inductees. Here are my 6 predictions for the 2016 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction ceremony:


Scenario 1: A Pre-1980s All Rock/R&B Bands/Groups Ceremony

01. Chicago
02. The Cars
03. Cheap Trick
04. Deep Purple
05. Yes
06. The Spinners

Scenario 2: If Voters Continue To Ignore Chic, The Spinners, Deep Purple and Yes, and prefer solo acts over bands; this has happened before recently

01. Chicago
02. Steve Miller
03. Chaka Khan
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

Scenario 3: The Future Rock Legends Poll

01. Chicago
02. Deep Purple
03. Yes
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

Scenario 4: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Fan Poll

01. Chicago
02. Deep Purple
03. Yes
04. The Cars
05. Steve Miller
06. Janet Jackson

Scenario 5: Steven Van Zandt

01. Chicago
02. Cheap Trick
03. The Cars
04. Steve Miller
05. Chaka Khan
06. Janet Jackson

Scenario 6: If All Else Fails

01. Chicago
02. Chic
03. The Spinners
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

I am leaning towards scenarios 2 and 5. I won't make my final prediction yet.

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 12:51pm

Only nominated acts we have not inducted into our Rock Hall Revisited/Projected are

Los Lobos
Chaka Khan
the J.B.s

Posted by Paul in KY on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 12:53pm

Zuzu,

Thanks for the Chicago Info. They are doing well across the Board. The Voting Body will know them very Well. Chaka Khan is very deserving. I know something about her Back up singing experience. I predict Both.

She is not too deserving but Janet Jackson will probably mess things up for some of the other Classic Rock candidates. She is after all a Jackson. This may be the year for the Annoying Chic. They were annoying when they were originally out.

Those are some thoughts Right Now.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 13:59pm

http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2015/10/08/Who-should-get-into-Rock-and-Roll-Hall-of-Fame-Post-Gazette-music-critic-makes-his-picks/stories/201510080200

Who should get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's next class? Make your picks

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 15:19pm

Ben,

I keep going back and forth on whether Janet gets in. A tid bit I came across is the Michael had left the rights to the Beatles songs to Paul and that the Jackson family is fighting him on this one. So how does that play out - is it blackmail for support or does it go against Janet because Paul isn't happy. Does she really have the respect of the voting body? I could be wrong because they voted Kiss in. Are enough Motown artist still alive? I think that may have played into her brothers getting in.

Another thing to remember is that her brothers got in before it started coming out that there were molestation accusations against Michael. That could play against her. I know there is media hype but does that honestly reflect how the general public feels about her and the Jackson family.

Then it's back to what has she done to deserve being nominated let alone inducted? She is only known for her dancing. She isn't a great vocalist and I don't see anything exceptional about her music. She isn't innovative and in many ways she is nothing more than a female version of her brother. With all the cosmetic surgery the two went through she could easily pass for her brother in drag before he started getting some wonky stuff done to his face.

Basically, I really think it could go either way despite all the hype.


I don't need to have an all classical rock induction. I do think that that with the exception of Chaka Khan some very poor choices were made for r&b. The Spinners weren't bad but they weren't exceptional either. NWA may be liked by the younger crowd but I don't think they go over well with too many people over 40. The JB's would probably be better as sideman. Chic - I just don't think so.

There are some people complaining about the lack of representation of African Americans. But what kind of representation have Hispanics had? I mean look only Los Lobos. There are earlier choices such as Joan Baez and Herb Albert and the Tijuana Brass. I grew up in a neighborhood that had a number of Mexican Americans and many of the young adults were into Herb Albert when I was a kid. I heard about him as much as I heard about Paul Butterfield.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 16:30pm

Chic and Chicago in the same year! I had a feeling this was going to happen!

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 16:58pm

I was wrong about Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass being Hispanic. They did help create other Latin acts.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 17:05pm

Michael Jackson was first accused of child molestation in 1993. The Jackson Five were inducted in '97. TheHall of Fame doesn't careabout this sort of thing. They inducted a guy who married his 13 year old niece in its first class, for crying out loud. I would be highly surprised if they won't pick Janet for the behavior of her brother, who has been inducted twice and practically has been deified since his death.

Janet cemented her place in music history. Not innovative? Her music is practically the starting point for contemporary R&B.

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 19:04pm

So I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I anm not a fan at all. I question her innovativeness but the Hall will feel she is and plus she is part of the Jackson family. So for those reasons I think she'll be Inducted. I do think Chaka Khan will be inducted too and she is Innovative and is a talented Vocalist. These 2 will block some Classic Rock. As a result it won't be All Classic Rock.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 20:27pm

If we get an all Classic Rock class with Chicago The Cars Cheap Trick Deep Purple Yes and Steve Miller would it that open the door to other Classic Rock acts like ELO Jethro Tull The Moody Blues.etc or heavy metal bands like Iron Maiden Judas Priest.etc or Arena Rock/80s Hair-metal bands like Journey Bon Jovi Def Leppard.etc or 80s rock bands like The Cure Duran Duran Depeche Mode.etc
Also If both Janet Jackson and Chaka Khan get inducted in place of 2-3 Classic Rock bands would it that open the door to other R&B/Soul female artists like Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey
If NWA gets inducted in place of 2-3 Classic Rock Bands would it that open the door to an LL Cool J induction or with the Superstars of 90s Rap becoming eligble soon NWA`s induction would open the door for it

Posted by richie on Monday, 10/12/2015 @ 21:11pm

Philip

You are a good evaluator of music. Do you think this is the Best 15 RRHOF Nominees list that you can remember? You can make a case 10 or 12 groups could get voted in. Enig's Prog list thought Moody Blues would make nomination. The Moody Blues will be good bet in 2016-2017 if Chicago, Deep Purple, YES, all get inducted. I thought NIN & N.W.A. would be sure things but this list of nominees is so good. Steve Miller or The Spinners could slide and take a spot away. Just love this list. KING

Posted by KING on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 01:29am

****The SPINNERS****

The Spinners WERE certainly exceptional. It's just that the Rockists don't want them to get in because they want an All-Classic Rock Inductees' list this year. I hear them extolling the virtues of all of the Rock acts, while blasting the R&B acts. That, Sir, is Rockism.

The Spinners have waited the longest of any act on this year's ballot.They have paid their dues....and THEN some. One or two 70's or Eighties acts could wait a year or two to let these guys in . Henry Fambrough is 76 years old. All of the other Original Spinners are DEAD.
If NWA gets in before the legendary SPINNERS , just because they released a movie, there id NO JUSTICE in this world.
*****Let's get THE SPINNERS into the Rock Hall for 2016 !!!****

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 02:33am

Thank you KING, Ben and SoTn,

Well, I am extremely disappointed that neither Duran Duran, nor The Moody Blues, nor the Electric Light Orchestra, nor Sade, nor Carly Simon were nominated this year; it is somewhat disheartening to say the least. Perhaps "Paper Gods" was too much of a dance oriented album, perhaps the members of Duran Duran need to pull out their secret weapon, their unreleased masterpiece, "Reportage." Perhaps Duran Duran should release a BluRay of their catalog of most recent videos also, including 'Girl Panic.'

I certainly hope that Chicago, Deep Purple and Yes are finally inducted next year. I would certainly be okay with an induction of The Spinners also.


Who should be inducted, in my opinion:

01. Chicago
02. Yes
03. Deep Purple
04. The Cars
05. The Spinners
06. Chaka Khan

Posted by Enigmaticus on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 02:55am

Ben,

The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominating Committee had switched the venue from Los Angeles to New York. That was quite a surprise. From this list of nominees, I will be easily voting for: Yes, Deep Purple, Chicago, The Cars and The Spinners.

I am very disappointed that neither The Moody Blues, nor the Electric Light Orchestra, nor Duran Duran, nor Sade, nor Carly Simon were even nominated. I do sincerely appreciate your support of those artists, however.

Who do I think will be inducted?

Nine inch Nails
Yes
Chicago
The Spinners
The Cars
Chaka Khan

I am extremely surprised to see Los Lobos on this list.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 03:03am

(sigh) I really am not looking forward to posting this since predicting a class from this list is going to suck, but...here we go:

1-5 Minimum:

1. N.W.A (The Hall didn't induct the Moody Blues or King Crimson in time, and the subsequent prog rock backlog got worse and worse. The Hall didn't induct T. Rex or Roxy Music in time, and the subsequent post-British Invasion alternative backlog got worse and worse. The Hall didn't induct Kraftwerk or Depeche Mode in time, and the subsequent electronic music backlog got worse and worse. Failing to induct N.W.A will result in immediate issues with 2Pac becoming eligible next year, and the resulting backlog will include bigger snubs like 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G., Jay-Z, Eminem, Dr. Dre solo, Kanye West, and possibly OutKast and Missy Elliot. Even with their newfound popularity, this is still a bitter pill, but the Hall needs to swallow it NOW.)

2. Chicago (With a plethora of classic rock bands coming in fresh this year, it's nigh on impossible to imagine a ballot with none of them on it, so of the possible candidates, Chicago may easily be the best possible pick of the bunch, not only because it would be a solid 70s pick, but because of the prospect of Peter Cetera reuniting with them for the subsequent induction.)

3. Yes (On the subject of prog rock, not inducting Yes while Chris Squire was alive is one of the biggest black eyes the Hall has going into this year, especially considering how badly they've handled prog rock. Look for a Squire tribute and possibly even Geddy Lee (if not the whole of Rush) performing with a reunited Yes line-up (something Squire wanted before he died) to sweeten the pot. No doubt Enigmaticus would be pleased.)

4. Deep Purple (If the shake-up in the committees translates to a shake-up of the voting block, then Deep Purple is going in. Like with N.W.A and Yes, Blackmore reuniting with them would help the idea of their induction, and it may win some favor back from the metal heads whom the Hall had fallen out of favor of.)

5. Los Lobos (I was simply not prepared for them being nominated, and neither was anyone else not named KING. That being said, the wiser money would be to say they aren't getting in, but between their great reviews, their strong resume, and their still-going relevance, I have a feeling an upset is in the cards.)

The sixth inductee:

6. Janet Jackson (Even with the Hall actively against her it seems, the amount of people who may give her the time of day is out of the Hall's hands, and with a range of people who give her props from Tom Morello to Joni Mitchell to Beyonce and Jay-Z to P!nk, Janet's going to have a solid groundswell of support, and with the backing of #InductJanet, that may be more than enough.

7-8 (The hall's max number, but likely not getting in yet):

7. Nine Inch Nails (As much as I can imagine a Stevie Ray Vaughn/Paul Butterfield situation causing fans of both NIN and the Smiths to pool together and get them both in, there's a small doubt for me that they'll get it. If the retool of the Hall of Fame leads to more than six inductees, NIN would be the seventh.

8. The Smiths (I'd want to say Chic, but this list is horrifying for them - competing with Chaka Khan AND the Spinners? I don't wish that on anyone. That being said...)

Of a special note:

X. The J.B.'s (It's almost too easy to imagine the Hall trying to backdoor them through as a sidemen inductee, because if Chic can't pull an induction, how are they going to?)

Posted by SotN on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 04:21am

So I guess I'm not a Rockist altogether anyway. I like the Spinners quite a bit. I have their Gr Hits. I was playing it in the Car. I play all the nominees I own after an announcement.

I don't predict them to go in though. I would love them too. I think Janet Jackson and Chaka Khan will get more Votes. True some of the Older Voters will Vote for the Spinners. Overall though they may fall short.

Zuzu,
You said Somewhere that the Spinners are good but real great. Could It be I'm Falling and One of a Kind Love Affair are great but there is also tunes like Love Don't Love Nobody. What is that? I like their Top Ten Hits. So based on hearing the Whole Gr Hits I know they aren't perfect. They did some great tunes and they did some bad tunes. Many artists are like that true. I'm just saying it indicates a weaker Catalog than others. It's just my opinion of their tunes as far as the Spinners.

So Zuzu can you suggest any Chaka Khan to listen to. That means that you are not a Rockist. My Fav bands are Rock. That don't mean I'm a Rockist. By the way that disco craze was out of control back in the 70s. I did like some fine R&B like Earth Wind and Fire and recall some Chaka Khan and there is some Teddy Pendergrass that I didn't mind. This is from a guy that loves his Neil Young Eric Clapton and Allman Brothers stuff. My fav band is the Who. A Brit band. Sorry. I dig plenty of Americans. My focus here is R&B

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 05:34am

Ben,

What I was trying to say about the Spinners was that their music was not bad. They were doing something similar to what a lot of other vocal groups had been doing. They were still doing in the 70s what had been done in the 60s. They didn't do anything that made them stand out from the crowd.

Isn't that what an artist should do to be considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They should stand out from the crowd and not blend in.

I don't object to r&b artist but I think the ideology that r&r came out of r&b instead of the blues and that r&b equals r&r is completely off base. The anything goes philosophy is wrong. None of the genres do it. Somebody is doing something wrong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

By the way my first slow dance was to Betcha By Golly Wog which is r&b.

I think there is an oversaturation r&b and Motown. When you get to that point you are no longer putting in the best. you are now putting in mediocre artist. I think this is one of two main reasons that r&b artist are not getting the votes. The other is that some of them have absolutely no connection to r&r.

I'm not opposed to the Brits. I'm just sick and tired of their glorification while the North American bands are getting bashed.

I know Chaka Khan from singles. She did I'm Every Woman and Feel for You. There is the duet with Peter Cetera, Feels Like Heaven and she was also featured on Steve Winwood's Higher Love.

I do like some r&b but I am not really into it. I am more into rock, outlaw country, folk and blues. (I'm from Chicago - you either like the blues here or go crazy.) I also like music that merges elements of any or all of those 4. I also get into a lot of various ethnic folk.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 06:34am

The Claw,

You are thinking of the Chandler case which occurred in 93 and never went to trial. I am referring to the Arvizo case which did go to trial. There was the documentary which included Arvizo where Jackson talked about sleeping inthe same bed as children. The trial had witnesses that talked about several different children. Macaulay Culkin testified on Jackson's behalf. After the trial it made Jackson look more suspicious when he left the country.

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old 2nd cousin - not his niece. Loretta Lynn was married at 15. The Roosevelts were 5th cousins. Although we look at it differently today, what Lewis did was completely legal and not uncommon for that area or time. I actually met somebody that was married when they were 13 around the same time as the Lewis marriage. Michael Jackson was brought to trial for a serious crime - the rape of a child.

Micheal Jackson revered or did the family spend enough money trying to clean up history. The Voice tried having something about Michael Jackson a couple of years ago. It really didn't go over very well. Maybe the Jackson family is not as well thought of as you think. media hype is not the same as the mood of the general public.

I know of only 2 artists that cite Janet Jackson as an influence and that is for dancing. I see a lot of the contestants do songs by r&b female artist but none of them are Janet Jackson's. If anything I would say Whitney Houston is the most revered.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 08:02am

http://fox8.com/2015/10/08/nominees-announced-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction/

Chicago is winning the FOX NEWS Cleveland poll too!! Greg Harris interview.

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 08:15am

Why would the Rock Hall have a list of 15 potential nominees to only induct 5 performers? This makes NO sense given this will only create a back catalogue of artists that will be continually be snubbed. Go back to 6, if not 7 performers for the 2016 ceremony. This seems troubling given this is a classic rock heavy ballot; this would only allow maybe 2-3 of them to have a fair shot. I think Yes and Chicago are foregone conclusions this year for classic rock. I think the 3rd shot could be Cheap Trick or Steve Miller (Band). Janet Jackson, N.W.A./Chic (one of the two), Janet Jackson and Nine Inch Nails have a better shot than the others this year.

Posted by Nick on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 11:43am

Who will be nominated in 2017?
we all know that Pearl Jam is certain to be Nominated and inducted next year
if Chicago The Cars Cheap Trick Deep Purple Yes and Steve Miller all get inducted this year I could see a repeat nomination for either Bon Jovi or The Cure or a first-time nomination for someone like The Moody Blues or ELO
if Chaka Khan and Janet Jackson both get inducted this year I could see a first-time nomination for either Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey or a female rocker like Pat Benatar
If NWA gets inducted this year it will open the door for 2Pac getting a first-year nomination though I could see another nomination for LL Cool
J
if Nine Inch Nails get inducted this year it will open the door for Pearl Jam next year and Radiohead in 2018 though I could see first-time nominations for Soundgarden Jane`s Addiction Alice In Chains and The Smashing Pumpkins in the next few years

Posted by richie on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 13:13pm

The fact that they have already stated that they will only induct 5 performers makes me think that they already have a Ringo type back door induction ready to go this year. Who will get the honor of the inside back door induction (or 2nd induction) like Ringo did?

Posted by Classic Rock on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 13:30pm

Classic Rock,

He said 5 and if it shades close then possibly a little bit higher. at about the 2:20 mark on the Fox 8 Cleveland interview.

To me it sounds like it could be maybe 6 or 7 if the numbers are close. Maybe the problem is that they are not putting up nominations that generate enough close votes.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 13:55pm

Maybe they're gonna actually induct 6, with the 5 top vote getters, plus Chic (who we all know isn't gonna have the votes to beat out the likes of Janet Jackson, N.W.A., Chicago, Deep Purple, and Cheap Trick.

That may be why they're only "gonna induct 5."


Although Greg Harris did say that if it's a close call in the votes, they might induct more than 5. I really hope that's the case, because I think it would be an epic disaster for the Hall to go back to only inducting 5 artists per year again. That's who they built up such a huge backlog. And it would be unfathomable to go back that route, especially this year with such a strong ballot of nominees.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 14:13pm

There is a HUGE backlog of deserving Classic R&B acts, too. Just as much as in other genres in fact...and more than in most.

I don't have to go through the list again...but I will...just to prove to you I'm not lying.

DIONNE WARWICK
JR.WALKER & THE ALL STARS
THE DOMIMOES
MARY WELLS
THE MARVELETTES
THE POINTER SISTERS
GENE CHANDLER
JOHNNIE TAYLOR
JOE SIMON
BARRY WHITE
LOU RAWLS
THE SPINNERS
THE WHISPERS
THE DRAMATICS (they were recently INTERVIEWED at the Rock Hall, the interview is on YouTube....but no nomination
CHUCK JACKSON
HAROLD MELVIN & THE BLUE NOTES
JERRY BUTLER
BEN E. KING
THE INTRUDERS
THE STYLISTICS
DON CORNELIUS
THE CHI-LITES
THE DELFONICS
ASHFORD & SIMPSON
WHITFIELD & STRONG
THE ORIGINAL JAMES BROWN BAND (NOT JUST THE LATER UNIT, THE J.B.'s)
NATALIE COLE
WHITNEY HOUSTON
THE FUNK BROTHERS
THE BLOSSOMS (not just Darlene Love)
THE BELMONTS (Doo-Wop)

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 16:13pm

@ Bill G.

If you want to go into 80's R&B, I'd also say that Luther Vandross, Anita Baker, and Sade (if they count as R&B) are pretty big snubs too.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 16:16pm

Zuzu,

I just want to correct myself and clarify. I think You said the Spinners are Good but NOT real great. I agree with You that a bunch of their Music was not bad. Although I've heard some clunkers. I agree that they don't stand out from the Crowd. Of course that don't seem to bother the Hall anymore. I do think They'll fall short on Votes though as compared to Janet Jackson for instance. I see an induction for Chaka Khan too. I only Own I Feel For You. That's why asked about other tunes.

Just like you I like some R&B but I am much more into Rock. I own every cd from The Who. I own most of the ones from Neil Young and Lots and lots of Eric Clapton. I own hundreds of cds from So many Rock artists. I have a very small R&B collection in contrast. I do like Chicago a lot. I have spoken about the Moody Blues. I like all the Classic Rock artists in some way this year. A bit less on Cheap Trick.

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 18:20pm

Ben,

I never did get the adoration for Cheap Trick. I don't see why they are considered so influential either. Rockford isn't that far from Chicago and when I see or read about local reaction to Chicago, all I can do is shake my head. I really don't hear anything locally. Part of it could be that most of the other local artist came on the scene a lot earlier than they did.

I'm very well versed on folk. It comes from all the time I spent at camp and day camp. My grade school friends were into rock and some were into r&b. Most of my high school friends were into rock - Beatles, Elton John and Chicago. A few of them were in competition to see who had the most complete collections.

Personally I like Chicago, Reo, Fleetwood Mac, Styx, John Mellancamp, Muddy Waters, Steve Goodman, James Taylor and Melanie. There are several others that I like too.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 20:04pm

http://www.nbcchicago.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Janet-Jackson-Chicago-The-Cars-Nominated-Rock-Hall-331197962.html

NBC NEWS 5 CHICAGO

Janet Jackson, Chicago, The Cars Nominated for Rock Hall

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 20:11pm

Bill G.

Right on The Spinners. They deserve to be inducted. These guys made some of the classic 70's songs. Rubberband Man, I'll Be Around, Could it be...etc. This is such an amazing ballot. Chicago would be a lock with their number of hits, love of the voters,and ravenous fan base. I'm hoping Deep Purple too. Love listening to Burn and Hush again this week. You wonder if The Cars & Cheap Trick cancel each other out. They arrived about the same time. Had great early success in late 1970's and early 80's. Will continue to monitor this. Steve Miller probably a Wild Card since his longevity spans 1960's to today. Will pick up votes from a variety of artists. I thought Nine Inch Nails would be a lock this year. This amazing 2015 list will make it difficult for NIN to make it. KING

Posted by KING on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 21:28pm

Zuzu,

That's why said a bit less on Cheap Trick. I only Own Budokhan. No use for the Others. I have great doubt they will get enough Votes. When You think of great Rock bands they are not the first band you think of. Nor are they one of those great Under rated bands. There are just there.
I'm confused what You said. Did you mean Local reaction to Cheap Trick?

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 22:22pm

"Philip

You are a good evaluator of music. Do you think this is the Best 15 RRHOF Nominees list that you can remember? You can make a case 10 or 12 groups could get voted in. Enig's Prog list thought Moody Blues would make nomination. The Moody Blues will be good bet in 2016-2017 if Chicago, Deep Purple, YES, all get inducted. I thought NIN & N.W.A. would be sure things but this list of nominees is so good. Steve Miller or The Spinners could slide and take a spot away. Just love this list. KING"

KING,

It really depends on your metric. For my personal taste, I'm okay to pretty good with this one. Other than Yes, there's no act on here that I really hate (though I'm not fully researched on a couple), and other than the Spinners, none that I absolutely love. As far as merits go, I've been kind of considering it, but I've got a lot of personal issues on my plate right now. Just a sample of that plate: the little lady's grandfather passed away after a 4 month or so battle with cancer. So, yeah. You'll excuse me if I don't give this hobby the full weight that you guys are right now.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 23:23pm

Those who are saying that The Spinners are not exceptional are, by their own admission, not R&B fans anyway, so I don't expect you to give an unbiased neutral opinion.
And that's OK.
Because everybody is not going to be a fan of every genre of music.
I myself, am not, for the most part, a fan of Rock, either. I didn't grow up with it ,nor did most of my friends and peers. I was not a fan of it, and I pretty much thought that self-contained bands were boring.
I relished vocal groups . tight harmonies. Exciting choreography. Great showmanship. THAT was my thing, and as a singer in numerous vocal groups myself,THAT was my cup of tea, what I aspired to. I thought that guitars and other instruments just slowed you down.
What a lot of you don't realize is that many of the members of classic R&B groups boast members that are exceptional instrumentalists...that are proficient in many different musicial instruments.
they simply DIDN'T WANT TO play them onstage. Why? because it would detract from THE EXPERIENCE.
Example: James Brown was a multi-instrumentalist...and a very good one . But , do you really think people would prefer seeing him onstage playing the guitar, drums, or keyboards ? Or doing his dymanic singing and dancing with The Famous Flames ?
I rest my case.
My point is this: everybody has their thing: the type of music and genre of artists that they like better that other styles of music and artists.
So, I don't expect people who grew up with Rock to like , or feel the same way that I do about R&B. I grew up with it . I was a part of that era . The Spinners and other Classic R&B artists were what I GREW UP ON, AND LEARNED TO SING TO.
Just because you DIDN'T grow up on it, or happen to like it ,doesn't mean it doesn't have merit .
...Because, a LOT of people DO like The Spinners and their music...and happen to think that they're quite exceptional, indeed. And , this may SHOCK you...but many of their fans are White, as well as Black. You don't HAVE to like them. But give them their props. They deserve it.
And, remember this...It's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
NOT the ROCK Hall of Fame.
...there's a difference.
R&B is a legitimate branch of Rock and Roll. In fact (as I've said many times before) It's one of its PROGENITORS.
R&B Artists such as The Spinners definitely belong in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame
Whether you may personally LIKE them...
or NOT.

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 03:20am

Ben,

Local reaction is twofold. I haven't found much in my research on local groups but like I said Cheap Trick came later. Everybody in Chicago is so interconnected. According to Joe Mantegna everybody knew everybody. This is a large part of the reason Chicago was influential before they recorded a record. Some of this guys lived pretty close to each other to boot.

Everybody I knew cared about Chicago. One of the kids I went to high school with lived in the same neighborhood as Peter Cetera. You mentioned Chicago and they were bouncing off the walls with excitement. Two of the kids I hung around with lived to the neighborhood to the west. Nobody talked about Cheap Trick.

Skip Haynes coyly mentions CTA being one of the bands they saw at the clubs. All of the garage bands seem to keep in touch and support each other. I find no interaction for Cheap Trick. Pretty much the same goes for Smashing Pumpkins. So I don't see how either can be thought of as more influential than Chicago.

Just a note:

Joe Mantegna was in a local band called The Apocryphals. he was also in a couple of rock musicals, Hair and Godspell. I saw him in Godspell when I was in high school.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 07:53am

Well said Bill G.!

Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 10:19am

Many Thanks, Donnie .

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 11:18am

Bill G,

I do not see anyway that you and I can ever see eye to eye on what genre r&r developed out of. I I feel that you are as solidly entrenched in the ideology that r&r developed out of r&b as I am that both r&r and r&b developed out of the blues and had influences on each other. Over the decades they have had times they were almost melded together and times they were cut off from each other. It is the blues that brings us all together.



By your own admission you know little about rock and are only an r&b enthusiast. You don't think that makes you biased? To some degree or another all of us have biases. Not one of us knows everything. All of us have a different perspective and bring different bits of info to the table. Nobody knows it all.


I have nothing against vocal groups. If you knew more about 70s rock you might be aware that better musicianship was not the only driving force. It was not all about hard rock and guitar solos. You had influence and fusion coming from folk and country. Both used harmonies and that influence showed up in a lot of 70s rock. The early 70s had a lot of r&b connections. It was with disco that there was a huge severance of ways.

For the record I personally would love to see

Chicago
Chaka Khan
Steve Miller
Nine Inch Nails
Los Lobos

Out of the r&b artists this year the Spinners would be second on my list. I'm not cheering for them but considering the nominees this year, I would be ok with them being one of the r&b artist to be nominated.

When I say they don't stand out I was talking about standing out from other vocal groups. I had to look them up to see what songs they recorded. By comparison I didn't need to look up 5th Dimension songs. I remembered their songs and I remember that they were the ones that sang those songs. There music was a part of my preteen and teen years. Add to that i have read that Marilynn McCoo was well regarded as a vocalist.

When I bring up Steve Goodman I can back it up with over 80 artist have covered one of his songs, 5 at least in a language other than English. I can bring up people who say he was an influence, people he worked with and people that have covered his music. I can point out that artist from different genres, Etta James and Trisha Yearwood have both covered A Lover Is Forever, a song he co-wrote with Fred Knobloch.

I am open to hearing arguments for the Spinners. Like I said nobody knows it all. I just need to have something substantive to change my mind. A rant about how much you enjoy them or a statement that can't be backed up or check is not going to convince me.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 11:47am

With all due respect, Zuzu, I would hypothesize the reason you had to look up the Spinners' songs is because you aren't such an R&B enthusiast, by your own admission. Also, if you listened to Oldies stations, you were going to hear the Fifth Dimension more than the Spinners, as they were happy to trot out that overplayed horse "Aquarius" way too much, and MAYBE "Up, Up, And Away." Fwiw, I prefer Spanky And Our Gang to the Fifth Dimension. Their vocal harmonic structures are similar, but their style was preferable to me.

Oldies stations were always a little shy with vocal R&B in the '70s. Living in Michigan, our Oldies stations laid on the Motown waaaaaayyyyy too heavy and left no room for other R&B... even Aretha and James didn't get a whole lot of love (Seriously, when I lived in Lansing, there were some hours of programming where literally every other song was Motown). And when they did have '70s soul, it was usually the O'Jays. By the mid '00's, when Oldies stations went much more '70s, you definitely started hearing the Spinners more... "It's A Shame," "I'll Be Around," even "Cupid" and "Working My Way Back To You" started getting programmed. Now, Sirius is the only place you'll hear Oldies.

Point being, if you're not into it to begin with, you weren't going to be passively bombarded by them, but that doesn't mean they aren't worthy of the Hall. As for "standing out," I'll repeat, they did stand out inasmuch they didn't sound like other R&B groups of that time. With their bass-thumping, rhythmic grooves, they clearly did not sound like the Delfonics, the Stylistics, Chi-Lites, Moments, Dramatics, Persuaders, etc.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 13:20pm

Philip,

With all due respect, I didn't need a history lesson to know who the 5th Dimension was and what their music was. I was listening to the radio when their music came out.

If you wanted to listen to 60s r&b you listened to a dusties station, not a oldies station in the 70s. We had both here in Chicago.

What part of VOCAL GROUP do you not understand? I said nothing about r&b in general. What part of give me something substantive and not rants did you not comprehend?

Chi-Lites are a Chicago group so I am familiar with them and know a couple of their songs. I remember Oh Girl and Have You Seen Her playing on the top 40s stations when they came out.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 13:40pm

I'm not trying to change your mind about anything, I'm just saying you had to look them up because you didn't care for that general style anyway. You know who the 5D are mainly because of "Aquarius."

Also, your Chicagoan status is also a big hindrance for you. Just as being a Michigander means Motown was unavoidable, it also meant other stuff didn't filter through as well. The first thing that needs to go is the subjectivity of your life experiences and local color.

Again, not making any argument or lecture. Just observations.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 13:49pm

I didn't need to look it to know and have heard the following 5th Dimension songs when it came out.

Go Where You Wanna Go
Up, Up and Away
Stoned Soul Picnic
Wedding Bell Blues
I Didn't Get to Sleep at All
One Less Bell to Answer

And of course Aquarius


They were on TV quite a bit in the late 60s and early 70s as well as on the radio.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 13:52pm

Philip

Put up or shut up.

Give me info or don't bother me. That is what I asked for. Your rants do not make you look good.

All I can gather is that you just happen to like the Spinners and have nothing to back-up your mouth.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 13:58pm

And the Spinners rose to prominence after most of those songs had pretty much faded away to "dusties" stations.

Although, I would argue that just because you had to look them up shouldn't necessarily be a handicap either. When Jersey Boys took to Broadway, one of the most common reactions when journalists interviewed people coming out of the theater was along the lines of, "I never realized the Four Seasons recorded so many songs I know and love!" If you know and love the songs, that's what it's about, honoring artists for their music.

And if you didn't know the songs, well, then it's just an experience you haven't had yet. Just because you had to make it happen rather than you being able to sit back and have it happen to you (not to be taken out of context, thank you), doesn't necessarily diminish an artist's worth either. Just ask any advocate of '80's post-punk, lol.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 14:07pm

Zuzu,

I'm not ranting, I'm not arguing (all that much anyway), and I'm not trying to be a teacher. I told you: these are just observations I'm making. Stop taking it so personal. I'm not trying to do anything right now, other than kill some time discussing music. Chill.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 14:15pm

A few thoughts:

Ben, Cheap Trick is an awesome rock group who often gets overlooked. I’m glad to see them finally get the Rock Hall ballot and receive a nomination. I think they might be a dark horse for induction this year because they are garnering a lot of support. It helps that Stevie Van Zandt lobbied for them. Also, Cheap Trick, IMO, is one of the best live rock groups and one of the reasons why they are so respected in the rock community. Listen to their live albums and you'll understand why they are a very Rock Hall worthy band.

Bill G, thanks for supporting the Spinners and R&B/Soul in general. It is nice you are the voice of reason in a message board filled with sometimes ridiculous observations. The Spinners are one of the great soul acts of the 1970s and super influential. Besides the O’Jays who were inducted back in 2005, the Spinners personified the Philadelphia Sound. What I find more troubling is that the last couple of years, the Rock Hall has nominated a slew of worthy soul artists who stand little chance to bigger-named rock acts. As much as I like the Spinners, I don’t see them having much a chance this year. I really want to be wrong here but I’m being realistic. Anyone denying the Spinners’ legacy is only fooling themselves.

Zuzu, read Bill G’s comments on various boards here, he KNOWS what he’s talking about and he backs that up with evidence almost every time. He can school any of us who doubts the influence soul/R&B had on the development of rock music. On a side note, we’re all bias when we talk about our favorite artists and genres. I prefer rock music but I greatly enjoy and appreciate soul/R&B music. To be quite honest Zuzu I’m not really sure what you’re point is on The Spinners. You’re asking Phillip to elaborate on something that I’m still puzzled about its meaning.

Posted by Nick on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 14:28pm

Thanks very much for the kind words, Nick !!

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:18pm

"I am open to hearing arguments for the Spinners. Like I said nobody knows it all. I just need to have something substantive to change my mind. A rant about how much you enjoy them or a statement that can't be backed up or check is not going to convince me."
I am not trying to convince you of anything . I am simply saying that you should show some respect to the favorites and opinions of others that may not necessarily agree with yours.
The fact that you don't KNOW much about The Spinners doesn't mean that they are not worthy.
They are a long lasting and highly respected vocal group that are very deserving of induction.
If they weren't, they wouldn't have been nominated THREE TIMES .
I don't claim to be a expert on Rock...but you don't see me going around on this site , bashing other people's likes and choices. I defer to those who have greater knowledge about other groups and artists, and respect their opinions.
How can you bash a group that you know nothing about ? So you like classic Rock and you don't like R&B. that's fine.
But bashing other people's choices and favorite genres is childish.
Numerous times on this site,I have said that, if you don't know about an artist, LEARN ABOUT THEM.
...and try to respect the opinions of those who do. If you don't know about a group,how can you criticize and be so vocal about them not being deserving ?
Neil has posted Wikipedia links to every artist on this site. Use it.
Also go to Charles Crossley's excellent "Top Of The Charts" page on the Spinners. You'll learn even more.Or even to the "SoulWalking UK" page on the Spinners. It is also quite good.
Several years ago, I kept hearing from people on this site that RUSH was deserving of induction.
I had never even HEARD of Rush.
But not once did I post on this site that, because I didn't know anything about them, then they could possibly be worthy.
Instead, I made it my business to click on their Wikipedia link and READ ABOUT THEIR HISTORY.
And, once I did, I added my voice to others who said they deserved to be in the Rock Hall.
Maybe you should consider doing the same for the Spinners.You claim that you're open to hearing arguments about the Spinners...but you really aren't . People here are talking ...but You're not listening. So I guess you're really not that open to hearing arguments.
So do your own research. You either will or you won't . It's up to you.But if you really don't want to....Then don't bash or try to influence the opinions of those who did...
That KNOW The Spinners deserve induction.

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:19pm

No Hall for The 5th Dimension, but Marilyn McCoo can flat out sing like an angel.

The Spinners were much bigger (on radio) back in 70s than the 5th Dimension ever were. That's generally because they had better songs.

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:29pm

http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/1736/The-Spinners?page=1
From Charles Crossley's "Top Of The Charts" page on The Spinners:
"The Spinners have been cited as an influence by, have had their songs covered or sampled by, and have collaborated with the following:

Eric Clapton, the Supremes, David Bowie, Elton John, the Four Tops, Public Enemy, James Taylor, Elvis Costello, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, Dionne Warwick, Rakim of Eric B. & Rakim, Todd Rundgren, LL Cool J, Doobie Brothers, Hall & Oates, 2Pac, Charles Mingus, Boyz II Men, Jay-Z, Lionel Richie, Bobby Brown, John Hiatt, R. Kelly, Atlantic Starr, Phyllis Hyman, Afghan Whigs, Regina Belle, William Bell, Earl Klugh, Ween, DMX, D'Angelo, Youssou N'Dour, Otis Clay, Mobb Deep, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Lisa Stansfield, Ray Parker, Jr., Phil Perry, Debarge, CeCe Peniston, Freddie Jackson, Rebbie Jackson, Will Downing, Lupe Fiasco, Joan Osborne, Talib Kweli, Monie Love, Full Force, the Family, Tony Orlando & Dawn and Jeffrey Osborne among many others."

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:30pm

Tell em, Bill!

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:32pm

First of all, I think its great having someone like Bill G. or Enigmaticus on our forum. It's like having our own little subcommittees for certain genres during our Rock Hall Projected voting process.

I've used this site (and the knowledge of my peers here) to learn about a LOT of musicians that I had been unfamiliar with, among them being Joy Division, whom have over the years become one of my all-time favorite groups.

Zuzu, if you're interested in learning about the Spinners, you can use the comments left on their page here, as well as the songs chosen to be in the song project (although sometimes there are artists that are grossly underrepresented, but that's another matter.) If you decide that they're still not worthy after doing your research, then that's all good! Its ultimately beneficial that we all have differing opinions on this site. Having a hive mind on everything would be boring.

I, personally, think that the Spinners are worthy, although I also think that Chicago, Deep Purple, & Yes are among the biggest snubs ever made by the hall. I also don't think Janet Jackson is this giant snub that everyone is making her out to be, especially against the likes of all the artists I've just previously mentioned or uninducted female solo acts like Connie Francis, Lesley Gore, Petula Clark, or Kate Bush. But I understand that a lot of people like her and I know how successful she's been, so I'll live with the fact that she'll probably get in before or at the same time as all those listed above.

I also support the Fifth Dimension, by the way, and while Aquarius may be their most recognizable, (Last Night) I Didn't Get to Sleep at All and Wedding Bell Blues are staples as well. If anyone is looking for an R&B pick for the upcoming Projected vote this week, these guys would be a great pick and I'm totally down for support.

Posted by Steve Z on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 15:57pm

Thanks, Paul, Steve, and Philip.

I think that's it's very important to keep this site positive and focusing on ALL different artists and subdivisions of Rock and Roll....not just one.
...it's only fair.

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 16:39pm

I have advocated the Spinners in the past. I actually thought they would be Inducted last Year. I was wrong last Year. The Hall went with Bill Withers as an Old R&B choice. Some of their songs are great. My Fav is Could It Be I'm Falling. I do however feel that Janet Jackson And Chaka Khan will get more Votes. There is of course that pathetic Chic thing. The Spinners are wayyyy better than them.

I'm not a huge Fan. I own their Gr Hits. Some are clunkers like Sadie. Other tunes I love. I feel they will get in but in a different Year. There's a lot of Classic Rock and the other R&B I said. It's a matter of Votes. Other Nominees will get more Votes I think. I own the Gr Hits so clearly I like them somewhat. I feel they will be passed up as a prediction. I happen to like them more than Janet Jackson. I would never desire to own an album by her.

Posted by Ben on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 18:01pm

I agree its pathetic, Chic should have been in a decade ago.

Posted by Gassman on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 18:13pm

Exactly. It's pathetic how they are treating a genius like Nile Rodgers.

Posted by The_Claw on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 18:29pm

My favorite song by each of the nominees:

The Cars - Touch and Go
Chaka Khan - I'm Every Woman
Cheap Trick - Dream Police
Chic - Good Times
Chicago - Beginnings
Deep Purple - Knocking At Your Back Door
The J.B.'s - Take away James Brown songs and no idea
Janet Jackson - The Pleasure Principle
Los Lobos - La Bamba (by default)
N.W.A - ?
Nine Inch Nails - Hurt
The Smiths - There is a Light That Never Goes Out
The Spinners - I'll Be Around
Steve Miller - Swingtown
Yes - And You And I

Posted by Classic Rock on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 18:36pm

Classic Rock says his favorite Los Lobos song is "La Bamba" (by default), as if that is all to choose from? This is a band that has been playing and releasing music consistently for over three decades. They have released around a dozen albums, several of which are outstanding. KIKO is genius. It is only "by default" because you have chosen not to explore the rest of this rich, diverse, experimental catalogue.

Initially i was happy they got the nomination, and that wpuld enough. But the more people blow their legacy off, the more i hope they actually get in.

Posted by Dezmond on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 19:55pm

I stopped caring about the RRHOF a while ago, but I feel compelled to join the "Name your favorite songs by the nominees" game. Here are my choices:

The Cars - Good God, how do I choose one song when The Cars are in my top 10 favorite musical acts of all time? Nope, can't do it, so I'll just list my top five favorites in no particular order: Up and Down, A Dream Away, Moving in Stereo, Why Can't I Have You, and Double Life (I love their hits, but as a hardcore Cars fan, I find their deep cuts even more satisfying)

Chaka Khan: I Feel for You

The Spinners: One of A Kind (Love Affair)

Yes: Owner of A Lonely Heart (The 12" extended version, not the original single)

Steve Miller Band: Fly Like An Eagle (I'm not crazy about SMB, but I always liked this song)

The Smiths: How Soon Is Now? (I consider the Smiths fairly overrated, but I do like some of their songs. HSIN is their crowning jewel for me)

Nine Inch Nails: N/A (I need to listen to more of their work before I can make a decision)

The JB's: N/A (Attention Bill G: What songs of theirs not featuring James Brown should I seek out?)

Cheap Trick: Dream Police

Janet Jackson: Nasty (The 12" extended Summer Mix)

Deep Purple: N/A (Not a fan)

NWA: N/A (Ditto, although I actively despise NWA and gangsta rap as a whole)

Chic: N/A (Need to listen to more of their catalog)

Chicago: Questions 67 and 68

Los Lobos: N/A (I may eventually check out some of their non-La Bamba material, but not for a long time. I'm too busy focusing on different 1980s new wave/synth-pop/dark wave/post-punk, 1900s-1920s pop/jazz/cabaret/ragtime, 1970s/'80s soul/funk, and other acts that don't fit into any of the aforementioned genres/styles like Dionne Warwick).

Posted by Zach on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 20:22pm

Zach, nice call on "A Dream Away" for The Cars. Always one of my favorites as well. As I've suggested to others, give the Los Lobos album 'Kiko' a shot. One of my Top 10 favorite albums of all time. It is bursting with creativity and fresh ideas.

Posted by Dezmond on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 21:04pm

Bill G.
Love The Spinners comments. Definitely deserving for sure.

Philip
Sorry to hear about the grandfather passing. Lost my Dad and grandmother in short span. King prayer to you.

Zach
Some of the best songs by nominees. Cheap Trick-Probably Surrender although I like The Flame & Tonight It's You. Steve Miller-Many hits...I would say Abracadabra. Cool for it's time. Deep Purple-I like Burn. Love the drumming in that one. Love the fast pace in that one. The Cars-Something off the early albums. Just What I Needed fits the bill. Chicago-So many I would probably go with Saturday In The Park. Janet Jackson-Black Cat! That rocks could be metal. I'll do one more. YES-Owner Of A Lonely Heart A brilliant song. KING

Posted by KING on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 21:22pm

The Cars - Too many to list. Probably You're All I've Got Tonight though. Their recent Sad Song is great too.

Chaka Khan: Gotta look more into her

The Spinners: Rubberband Man

Yes: Owner of A Lonely Heart probably. Yours is No Disgrace is great too.

Steve Miller Band: Jungle Love or Jet Airliner.

The Smiths: Bigmouth Strikes Again. Love Asleep, These Things Take Time, and many more.

Nine Inch Nails: Hurt as of now. Maybe Terrible Lie on other days

The JB's: No idea, open to suggestions

Cheap Trick: Surrender

Janet Jackson: Rhythm Nation

Deep Purple: Probably Hush or Smoke on the Water. Burn is climbing up though, as is Knocking on your Back Door.

NWA: Straight Outta Compton

Chic: Probably Good Times

Chicago: 25 or 6 to 4, but I like a lot of their work.

Los Lobos: Viking (it was featured in an episode of the Sopranos too, by the way)

Posted by Steve Z on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 22:38pm

I’ll Play This Game Too although I’ll admit it’s hard to limit myself to one song per artist:

Chaka Khan: Tell Me Something Good (with Rufus)

Cheap Trick: I Want You to Want Me

Chic: Good Times

Chicago: 25 or 6 to 4

Deep Purple: Highway Star

Janet Jackson: Love Will Never Do (Without You)

Los Lobos: Set Me Free (Rosa Lee)

N.W.A.: Straight Outta Compton

Nine Inch Nails: Head Like a Hole

Steve Miller Band: Jungle Love

The Cars: Moving In Stereo

The J.B.’s: Pass the Peas

The Smiths: Panic

The Spinners: I’ll Be Around

Yes: Long Distance Runaround

Posted by Nick on Wednesday, 10/14/2015 @ 23:31pm

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/blog_files/Unusual_Voting_Rock_Hall_Fan_Poll.html

Unusual Voting Activity in the Official Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Fan Poll

(throw it out and start over)

Posted by FRL on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 00:46am

Although I agree that the Rock Hall should abandon the current fan ballot in leu for another one, this won't happen mainly because that would be a PR nightmare for the Rock Hall. Can you imagine if they restarted? The top 5 fans of those bands would lead to an outage and that would then lead to tons of complaining from classic rock fans. My take is to leave the fan ballot as if, and hopefully the Rock Hall learns from their mistakes in future fan ballots.

Posted by Nick on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 01:01am

Ok, I'll play.

The Cars: this is tough. Zach used my "A Dream Away," so I'll go with "Nightspots"

Cheap Trick: "Surrender", it encapsulates what they do best

Chic: "Good Times" works, although I admit to only knowing their hits.

Chaka Khan: "Ain't Nobody"

Deep Purple: "Woman From Tokyo"

Chicago: Anything from Chicago 17. Kidding. I'll go with "Saturday in the Park"

Janet Jackson: "That's the Way Love Goes"

JBs: Juat picked up a hirs collection of theirs and really like it, but not familiar enough to pick a favorite

Los Lobos: "Peace", or the entire Kiko record

NWA:" Straight Outta Compton"

Steve Miller: Since it is just him does it have to be off the ONE album not billed as Steve Miller Band? Kidding. Sorta. "Take the Money and Run"

NIN: Don't have one. I guess "Hurt," but mainly because of what Johnny Cash did with it

Spinners: "I'll be Around", there is a great live version on the When We Were Kings soundtrack

Smiths: "Shoplifters of the World"

Yes: "Changes"

On the poll thing. I don't think it can be fixed this late into it. Fix it for next year. I hope they don't just drop it completely though. It has little impact, but even the token participation for the fan is nice.

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 03:36am

"The top 5 fans of those bands would lead to an outage and that would then lead to tons of complaining from classic rock fans."

Maybe that might distract them from complaining about all them colored folk on the ballot for a little while.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 06:33am

Favorite Songs Game:

The Cars: Moving in Stereo

Chaka Khan: I'm Every Woman

Cheap Trick: Reach Out

Chic: Good Times

Chicago: Old Days

Deep Purple: Space Truckin'

Janet Jackson: Rhythm Nation

The J.B.'s: The Grunt, Pt. 1

Los Lobos- A Matter of Time

Nine Inch Nails: The Hand That Feeds

N.W.A.: Straight Outta Compton

The Smiths: How Soon is Now?

The Spinners: I'll Be Around

Steve Miller Band: Threshold/Jet Airliner

Yes: Roundabout

Posted by Donnie on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 06:40am

Now as far as Cheap Trick goes I think They may fall short as far as Votes. I personally like some Cheap Trick. I must admit I don't know their albums too Well. I like and Own Live at Budokhan. I am aware that Steve Van Zant has lobbied for them. It has taken time for Steve Van Zant Bands to go in sometimes. J Geils Band still haven't. I am staying with my prediction of Half Rock and Half R&B. If I'm doing that then I don't feel Cheap Trick will be one of the Inductees. I see the Rock acts this tear being Cars, Chicago and Yes. I see Cheap Trick getting inducted next year or some other year. It's a matter of Votes. A lot of members of the Voting Body nay not agree they have influence as compared to other Rock acts this year.

Deep Purple is an interesting Case. I want to say that I love Deep Purple a lot. I favor the line up with Ian Gillan. Some of the stuff with David Coverdale is Ok. I am so Glad they are back on the Ballot. I think before later Hard Rock bands go in they should. The thing is people like myself are not one of the Voters. I have said that a lot of the later Inductees will likely Vote for them like Steve Tyler and Alice Cooper. The problem is you need Votes of Other kinds of Inductees too. I say Deep Purple have tremendous influence. The thing is it took Black Sabbath many nominations before getting in.

If you consider the R&B thing I say that would block Deep Purple. I'm not putting much in the Fan base poll in the Rock Hall. It seems bogus at this point. I would say sadly Janet Jackson may get in before Deep Purple. Chaka Khan I predict too and she deserves an induction. My full support of Deep Purple does not hinder my Predictions. I may seem Rockist with my support of them as compared to Deep Purple nonetheless. So I am saying that I'm fine and pleased with an Induction of Chaka Khan.

It's like I said I feel The Inductees will be all Classic but not just Rock. You may notice I don't think NWA go in this year. That's because there is so Much Classic Rock and Classic R&B this year. By the was I won't play the Song game because I'm not into every single artist this year. I'll give 4. The Cars-Dangerous Type Chicago-Make Me Smile Deep Purple-Highway Star Yes- Yours is No Disgrace. I am undecided or don't know the other artists enough.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 06:56am

As a classic rock fan I am surprised by this amount of bias towards classic rock on the official fan poll I can see a band like Chicago getting a lot of fan support for all of the obvious reasons (large fan base, long list of hit albums and singles) but Steve Miller Band with more than double the vote total of Janet Jackson? Something's wrong with that.

Personally I'll admit that I've voted often in the fan poll (about once a day) but unlike the current totals I've put forth an ecumenical (SAT word of the day) ballot. After a lot of hemming and hawing I voted for Chicago and Yes because they are two of my favorite bands of all time that aren't already in the Hall. However I also voted for The Spinners, N.W.A., and Janet Jackson because they need to be in the Hall. These five would be perfect for this year's class as it would satisfy fanbases of multiple genres as follows:

Chicago- Classic Rock
Janet Jackson- Modern R&B and Dance pop
N.W.A.- Rap (they need to get the ball rolling before the major 90's acts show up to the party)
The Spinners- Classic R&B/Soul
Yes-Prog Rock (and would probably make some Hard Rock fans happy too)

I'll have more thoughts on this year's nominees list in a few days.

Posted by Tom H. on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 07:15am

Phillip, very sorry to hear of your Grandfather's passing.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 07:34am

List of my favorite songs:

The Cars: My Best Friend's Girlfriend
Chaka Khan: N/A (need to get familiar with her)
Cheap Trick: Surrender
Chic: Good Times
Chicago: 25 or 6 to 4
Deep Purple: A Gypsey's Kiss
The JBs: N/A (need to get familiar with them)
Janet Jackson: Rhythm Nation
Los Lobos: N/A (need to get familiar with them)
NWA: F*ck Da Police
Nine Inch Nails: Head Like a Hole
The Smiths: Bigmouth Strikes Again
The Spinners: They Just Can’t Stop it, the (Games People Play)
Steve Miller: The Joker
Yes: Long Distance Runaround

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 07:54am

Bill G.,


Thank you for voting for Rush those many years ago. On the official ballot, I had voted for The Spinners, The Cars, and of course, the three prog acts (Yes, Chicago and Deep Purple).

Tom H.,

I am glad that you had voted for Yes, Chicago and The Spinners.

Philip,

I am so sorry to hear that you hate Yes. Probably, not nearly as much as I detest AC/DC, or N.W.A., or even as much as I dislike Janet Jackson, as a "pop star." As I have said previously, I do not dislike her acting ability, however.

KING and Philip,

My late grandmother and father had passed away within less than two months of each other. So, I know how just painful losing two family members during the same year is. My most sincere condolences. My only living grandfather had passed away while I was attending the University of Arizona, when I was 19.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 09:01am

Here would be my choices.

The Cars: My Best Friend's Girlfriend
Chaka Khan: Feels Like Heaven (What? Is it cheating to include a duet with Peter Cetera?)
Cheap Trick: I Want You to Want Me
Chic: Everybody Dance
Chicago: Questions 67 & 68
Deep Purple: Child in Time
The JBs: Pass the Peas (I've been saying for years, we need to give peas a chance.)
Janet Jackson: Runaway
Los Lobos: Will the Wolf Survive?
NWA: Express Yourself
Nine Inch Nails: Closer
The Smiths: There Is a Light That Never Goes Out
The Spinners: Rubberband Man
Steve Miller: Swingtown
Yes: Close to the Edge

Posted by PopeCharming on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 09:04am

My favorites from the nominees:

The Cars: Moving in Stereo
Chaka Khan: I Feel For You
Chicago: Does Anybody Really What Time It Is
Cheap Trick: Voices
Deep Purple: Smoke on the Water
Chic: Real People
The J.B.'s: N/A
Janet Jackson: Just a Little While
Los Lobos: La Bamba
NWA: F@$& Tha Police
Nine Inch Nails: The Hand That Feeds
The Smiths: That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore
The Spinners: Could It Be I'm Falling in Love
Steve Miller: Fly Like An Eagle
Yes: The Gates of Delirium

Posted by Greg F on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 09:42am

Paul, Enig, KING, Pope, everyone really:

Thanks for the kind words. Just to clarify, he wasn't my grandfather, he was my fiance's grandfather. I wasn't especially close to him, seeing him really only on the important holidays, but he was the first member of her family to not treat me with suspicion or as a burden. He treated me like a welcome member before just about anyone else in her family. So, that does mean something special to me. But most of the strain and exasperation has been trying to be there for HER. It was about a four month decline (can't really call it a struggle as he pretty much accepted it right away) from bone cancer, and while that's relatively brief, it's a long time for a family who's watching it happen to their loved one. The funeral is tomorrow. Meanwhile, we're trying to keep everything else in life in a proper balance too, because this isn't the only thing on our plates, and the world ain't gonna stop for us. In some ways, keeping up with all of this (including writing a blog entry or two) has been a welcome respite from the anguish for both of us. I do fully intend to comment on the favorite songs bit, but I'll probably do THAT when I do the Personal Taste evaluation of the nominees on RHM.

Again, thanks for all your kind words, thoughts, and prayers.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 10:15am

Chicago will perform Beginnings, Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is, Saturday In The Park or 25 Or 6 To 4 at the induction ceremony. Or maybe they should just perform the 13-minute Ballet For A Girl In Buchannon instead.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 12:03pm

Any chance Janet Jackson and Chicago won't be inducted in 2016? Chicago would be the first act to win the Rock Hall fan poll, but not be inducted.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 12:05pm

To FRL

It's not true. You can still vote in the Rock Hall fan poll. You just have to keep pressing on the place your vote icon at the bottom of the page until the results show.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 12:34pm

Who the hell is Troy Smith and why does he think this could be Chicago's last chance at induction?

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 12:47pm

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/10/chicago_and_yes_fans_produce_r.html

Chicago and Yes fans produce record numbers for 2016 Rock Hall Fan Vote

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 14:04pm

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/10/rock_hall_2016_is_it_now_or_ne.html

Rock Hall 2016: Is it now or never for Chicago?

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 14:09pm

Bill G,

I did intend to offend you and apologize that what I said did. I did go to Wiki. That is where I found their songs listed. I realize from my own research on Chicago and other Chicago area artist that actually finding info can take some work and time to dig up something useful. Thank you for the info and leads.

Paul in KY,

We both could be right about which played more. Where you lived in the 70s could make a difference. Forgotten Hits will sometimes put up radio surveys from different cities for the same week. It is interesting to see how different they could be. Also it could make a difference if you were listening to a top 40s station vs a r&b station. If you look on wiki you will see. that sometimes the pop #s are higher than the r&b #s. According to Wiki 5th Dimension appeared on TV about 15 times in 4 years. Based on my personal experience I heard them more on the radio. Your experiences were obviously different.

Steve Z,

Thanks for the additional source.

You may want to also consider Patsy Cline for your list of long snubbed women. She broke barriers for women across all genres by being a headliner in a era when women needed a man to cosign to get a loan. About 40 years after her death she made the Guiness Book of World Records by having the longest run on the charts for an album by a women.

I came across a tidbit on an album by the 5th Dimension. Magic Garden was considered a concept album. Their music is also described as having elements of pop, r&b, soul, jazz, light opera and Broadway. Maybe Enigmaticus could let us know if they could be considered prog adjacent.

I also remembered another song of theirs I liked, Love's Lines, Angles and Rhymes.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 14:14pm

Zusu,

Agree The 5th Dimension were on TV more. Good point about what station you listened to.

Enig would think 5th Dimension were Prog. they did have some proggy outfits they wore.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 14:42pm

Now you have to wait 24 hours between each vote you place.

Thanks for voting! You can vote again in 24 hours for your favorite 2016 nominees!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 15:55pm

Since we were on the Subject of R&B I will mention some Past R&B Inductees I like and Own things from. I don't l like them as much as Most Rock Artists but I do own some. Stevie Wonder, Temptations, Isley Brothers, Sam & Dave, Al Green, Earth Wind & Fire. Those are some. I like the Spinners to a degree but not as much as Those. I am not sure if they are as Influential as those. I do know they will get in at some point. They do have some memorable tunes. I think they may fall short this year. It's up to the Voters. I am a Rock Fan. That is not bad for a Rock fan

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 16:05pm

Bill G.,

That should read I did not intend to offend you.

Paul,

Ben and I had been talking about that. Alliotta, Haynes and Jeremiah's Lake Shore Drive was huge around here. It wasn't until recently that I found out that it was only a regional hit. I think a lot of the garage bands were regional too, since there were several I had never heard of.

So their outfits are proggy huh. Just when I think I got I don't.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 17:25pm

FRL Fans & Regulars

I'm curious who you would say are the best 5 singers in this 2015 RRHOF Nominee class. My dad use to sing on the corner with friends in the 50's when the Doo Wop sound was big. He liked Sha Boom by the Crew Cuts. I'm Big vocalist fan of The Association and those vocal groups. Tough to pick a FAV but Robin Zander Cheap Trick underrated. Always enjoyed David Coverdale's power and range. Like his Whitesnake songs. Is This Love? In The Still Of The Night. Can't forget Peter Cetera. Excellent voice! Steve Miller could sing as well. FRL fans...Who are your FAV vocalists from this nominee class? I've always believed a great singer enhances a band. Most of the RRHOF bands had dynamic front men who were excellent singers. KING

Posted by KING on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 18:34pm

I'm partial to Coverdale, Jon Anderson of Yes and Trent Reznor in this list of nominees.

Posted by dmg on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 19:27pm

Chaka Khan has one hell of a voice. When they were on Arsenio Hall to promote their duet Feels Like Heaven, Peter Cetera said that had to get a special mike for her. She would blow the mike when she was belting it out.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 19:34pm

Yeah, Chaka's voice is amazing. I'm also partial to Morrissey, but I know that everything about him, including his voice, is polarizing. I like this strange recent cover choice of his:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1KKhZ80GDQ

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 20:00pm

Who would Los Lobos hurt? Who would have to not be inducted in order for Los Lobos to be inducted? Do you think the voters will continue to pass on N.W.A, Nine Inch Nails, Deep Purple, Yes, Chic, The Spinners?

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:05pm

Coverdale and Hughes will be inducted with Deep Purple. They are mentioned in the Rock Hall bio.

Best 5 Singers on the Ballot

01. Peter Cetera
02. Chaka Khan
03. Robin Zander
04. Ric Ocasek
05. Robert Lamm

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:12pm

Los Lobos = this year's Jimmy Cliff??

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:34pm

From this year's 15 nominees there are only two who are definitely going to be inducted in 2016, and those would be Chicago and Janet Jackson.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:39pm

I was thinking Paul Butterfield Blues Band, but Jimmy Cliff works too.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:39pm

That's a compliment, by the way.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:45pm

The voters passed on Rufus with Chaka Khan. Will they pass on Chaka Khan?

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 21:46pm

Roy: My opinion on who Los Lobos being inducted would hurt?

I'd say Nine Inch Nails. While the other options are weakened either by vote-split (Chic and the Spinners), by competing against a whole genre (Janet Jackson) or by their own music (N.W.A), NIN has the worst situation: they already got pushed back a year and don't have the protection of being a first-ballot inductee (even though they should have been), are competing against the Smiths who are not equal enough to cause a guaranteed Stevie Ray Vaughn/Paul Butterfield situation but not minor enough to avoid vote-split, and unlike N.W.A who can lead to a big situation down the line (competing against a plethora of artists inspired by them, including one of their own members), Nine Inch Nails doesn't have as much competition down the line (Radiohead would be the most likely one, and I can see NIN getting in with Pearl Jam before that has a chance to happen, whereas N.W.A would have to wait longer), so they could be seen as briefly expendable.

Posted by SotN on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 22:07pm

The voters have passed in the past on the Spinners, Chic, Deep Purple, Yes, Chaka Khan, The Smiths, N.W.A, and Nine Inch Nails. If this continues, then ladies and gentlemen…

THE 2016 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES

01. Chicago
02. Janet Jackson
03. Steve Miller
04. Los Lobos
05. Cheap Trick
06. The Cars

But wait a minute, the Paul Butterfield Blues Band was passed on three time before they were inducted on their fourth try. Could that happen to Los Lobos? What about Deep Purple and Yes? Are the American voters on the rock hall committee tired of bands from the British invasion? If not, then ladies and gentlemen

THE 2016 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES

01. Chicago
02. Janet Jackson
03. Steve Miller
04. Los Lobos
05. Deep Purple
06. Yes

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 22:11pm

I am up to 8 predictions now for the 2016 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony

Scenario 1: A Pre-1980s All Rock/R&B Bands/Groups Ceremony

01. Chicago
02. The Cars
03. Cheap Trick
04. Deep Purple
05. Yes
06. The Spinners

Scenario 2: If Voters Continue To Ignore Chic, The Spinners, Deep Purple and Yes, and prefer solo acts over bands; this has happened before recently

01. Chicago
02. Steve Miller
03. Chaka Khan
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

Scenario 3: The Future Rock Legends Poll

01. Chicago
02. Deep Purple
03. Yes
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

Scenario 4: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Fan Poll

01. Chicago
02. Deep Purple
03. Yes
04. The Cars
05. Steve Miller
06. Janet Jackson

Scenario 5: Steven Van Zandt

01. Chicago
02. Cheap Trick
03. The Cars
04. Steve Miller
05. Chaka Khan
06. Janet Jackson

Scenario 6: If All Else Fails

01. Chicago
02. Chic
03. The Spinners
04. Janet Jackson
05. Nine Inch Nails
06. N.W.A

Scenario 7: If voters continue to pass on the Spinners, Chic, Deep Purple, Yes, Chaka Khan, The Smiths, N.W.A, and Nine Inch Nails

01. Chicago
02. Janet Jackson
03. Steve Miller
04. Los Lobos
05. Cheap Trick
06. The Cars

Scenario 8: Hating on The Cars and Cheap Trick

01. Chicago
02. Janet Jackson
03. Steve Miller
04. Los Lobos
05. Deep Purple
06. Yes

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 22:38pm

Roy, do you acknowledge any scenario where Chicago is not inducted?

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 22:52pm

"Roy, do you acknowledge any scenario where Chicago is not inducted?"

I'd like to see that, too. If I had to put money on whether Chicago makes it or not this year, I'd bet in favor of it, but we've seen plenty of "sure things" not make it first time around. Add to that that their post-Terry Kath work is seen as a giant black mark against them by a lot of people.

It'll probably happen, but to not even consider a scenario where it doesn't is delusional.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/15/2015 @ 23:58pm

Mixing together my rankings of the nominees, some brief analysis/opinion, and my favorite song.

1. Deep Purple - Should have been inducted a long time ago. Arguably the most influential group nominated. There greatest innovation was bridging the gap been the Psychedelic 60s and the Hard rock/Heavy Metal of the early 70s. (Highway Star)

2. N.W.A. - Hopefully the 4th time is a charm, especially with their extremely successful biopic taking over the summer. Along with Public Enemy, N.W.A. was the most important Hip-Hop group in transitioning the genre from its relatively safe nature of the early 80's into one that was willing to take chances and challenge the status quo.(F**k Tha Police)

3. The Smiths - Arguably the most important and popular British group of the 80s. British Alt from the 80s is the most snubbed genre for the Rock Hall right now and The Smiths would be a great step in rectifying that void. The Smiths incorporated almost every alternative British music scene in the early 80s (Post-Punk, New Wave, Synthpop, Goth, etc) and was able to create there own sound that would influence every British musician, and countless worldwide, there after. (How Soon Is Now?)

4. Nine Inch Nails - Simply enough they brought Industrial Music to the masses. David Bowie compared Trent Reznor's impact to that of The Velvet Underground. So much of the music created in the 90's, 00's and today take a direct influence from NIN. (Head Like A Hole)

5. The Spinners - One of the biggest R&B hit-making groups to currently be on the outside looking in to the Hall of Fame. To me there are just way to many hits to be ignored. Their induction would be the second "Philly Soul" group to be inducted after The O'Jays (even though The Spinners are from Detroit and started off at Motown). (The Rubberband Man)

6. Yes - The definition of a Progressive Rock band and therefore should be inducted into the Hall of Fame at some point. Five years ago or so they would have been in the top two for me, but my once love for Progressive Rock has waned a bit. Yet it has not totally died and I do recognize the innovation, pure genius of musical skill, and influence on current Prog Rockers that they have provided. (Close To The Edge)

7. Chic - No one can create a groove better than Nile Rodgers can. This is an indisputable fact that cannot be argued! ;) While I only have them at 7th on my list, they should have been voted in years ago and I really hope they get in soon. They truly are the last Disco act that deserves recognition. (Everybody Dance)

8. Cheap Trick - A personal favorite band that still produces some pretty decent music today (catch out "Sick Man Of Europe" if you think I'm kidding) and has been influencing bands throughout the 80s, 90s, 00's, and today. Their only negative is that their innovation isn't as clear as other groups, even though they did help continue the Power Pop legacy of Big Star and The Raspberries. (Hello There)

9. The Cars - I have always argued that the "80s" as a musical decade began in 1978 when The Cars released their eponymous debut album. The album was years a head of its time and would have not have felt out of place in the mid-80s. The innovation is there, but the reason they aren't at the top is that I feel like they got a bit cheesy as the 80s progressed and that I don't feel as if there influence is still felt today as other groups listed above have. (My Best Friend's Girl)

10. Janet Jackson - In many ways there is Female R&B before Miss Jackson and there is R&B after her. For good and bad, every female R&B artist since has incorporated part of her sound. The influence and innovation is totally there, but unfortunately personal preference is pushing her down a bit on my list. That being said I would be 100% fine with her induction this year. (Nasty)


11. Chicago - Like Yes, I would have been going nuts about this nomination 5 years ago. However my tastes and opinions on music have changed since then. The 70s version of the band is still excellent in my opinion and extremely innovative in their continual use of a horn section. However their ventures into Adult Contemporary in the 80s was extremely cheesy and you really don't hear their influence in bands that came afterwards. However I would still be pleased if they were inducted as they should be in already, its just a really strong class to put them any higher. (25 Of 6 To 4)

12. Steve Miller - I feel really bad putting him so far down the list as a fellow Wisconsinite, but this is a really strong group of nominations. So many great sounds scattered throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s. You can't turn on a Classic Rock station without hearing one of his great song. The reason he's down this low is I really don't see the influence or innovation. That being said I would be trilled if he was inducted. (Swingtown)

13. Los Lobos - I really need to give them a better look before I can have a clear and valid opinion on them, but early examination has shown me that they are worthy of their nomination and even a possible induction. The more diversity and differing languages in the Hall of Fame the better. (Anselma)

14. Chaka Khan - This is one of the few nominations that I don't know is truly worthy. I don't see the innovation or influence, especially compared to Janet Jackson who will be her main competition on the ballot. If It took Donna Summer as long as it did to get inducted, I don't she Chaka Khan making this year. (I'm Every Woman)

15. The J.B.'s. - Like others I unfortunately had to look up this group when they nominations were announced and my first reaction was that they are going to get in trough the Musical Excellence route. I have no issue with this as this band's work with James Brown and their own music is totally deserving, but they shouldn't have taken a nomination spot from an artist that could have been voted in as a Performer. (The Grunt Pt. 1)

Overall this is a great group of nominations as there is really only 1-2 that I don't see as true Hall of Fame material. The nominating committee really did good work here!

Posted by Gassman on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 01:01am

Steve Z.,

Thank you for the compliment?

Philip,

You are very welcome. It is always difficult to lose someone who cares about you, even if they are not a blood relative.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 02:08am

Steve Z.,

Thank you for the compliment. It's always nice to hear that one's efforts are appreciated.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 02:16am

Best 5 Singers on the Ballot

01. Peter Cetera
02. Chaka Khan
03. Robin Zander
04. Ric Ocasek
05. Robert Lamm

Posted by Roy

What about Bobby Smith and Phillippe Wynne of The Spinners ?

Posted by Bill G. on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 03:55am

"Bill G,

I did intend to offend you and apologize that what I said did. I did go to Wiki. That is where I found their songs listed. I realize from my own research on Chicago and other Chicago area artist that actually finding info can take some work and time to dig up something useful. Thank you for the info and leads."

Bill G.,

That should read I did not intend to offend you.

Posted by Zuzu

Apology accepted,Zuzu .

Also, thanks for checking Wikipedia. There would be far less misinformation and a much better understanding of the merits of R&B artists and their industry accomplishments if more people did the same .

Posted by Bill G. on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 04:07am

About the 2016 Nominees, Bill G. wrote:

Best 5 Singers on the Ballot

01. Peter Cetera
02. Chaka Khan
03. Robin Zander
04. Ric Ocasek
05. Robert Lamm

Posted by Roy

What about Bobby Smith and Phillippe Wynne of The Spinners ?

Friday, 10.16.15 @ 03:55am

I was responding to KING. I thought it was about a scenario at next year's all-star jam? Bobby Smith and Phillirre Wynne are both dead. I would put them ahead or Robert Lamm and Ric Ocasek.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 04:54am

I just want mention some of the less talked about Nominees. I've talked about the Rock and The R&B, Those are the ones more talked about. I want to share that I do know About Los Lobos. I definitely know more than La Bamba. Don't Worry Baby may be my favorite. I also know Corrido #1 and This Time. I also some cuts from Kiko. I don't know them Well but I know them. I still don't think They will be Inducted. There is often left field Nominees. It's just that are so many Big Names on this list.

There is the JBs. I know James Brown but Not Them one of his back Up Bands. Another left field Choice. Some of the Older Voters may know them but I don't see a lot of Votes. No Way.

Nine Inch Nails is an interesting choice. They are the only 90s choice this year. I expected them but also Smashing Pumpkins. I want everyone to know I expect big 90s names at this point like these but I am not into these 2 at all. I will say at 50 that not every 50 Year old likes these. I do have a friend that is 51 and loves these 2 along with many others like Korn. I assume they will come. So as far as NIN despite it not being my Bag at all I predicted them to Be inducted before I saw the great Classic nominees that were Nominated. You know what I think It will be Classic this year and more Modern ones next year, This would mean Pearl Jam and NIN at the same time. The 25th Ann of a Big change in Music. That is exactly when bands like Def Leppard and Cinderella stopped being real Hip replaced in the Limelight By the Alt bands.

NWA is the one rap Group this year. Just as I say about Alt. I am no way into Gangster Rap but I accept that Rap will be at the Rock Hall. Not this year though due to all the Classic acts. This is where I got my theory of Classic Rock and Classic R&B. Now does this mean 2 Rap acts next year then. I don't like him but 2PAc is a No Brainer next year. I know he was very popular. I worked at Music stores in the 90s. He sold well.

The last I'll mention is the Smiths. Every year lately a Brit alt band is nominated and fails. I think That will happen again. This is especially due to all the Big Names. I mean you got big names like Chicago Deep Purple Yes as well as Janet Jackson. The Smiths just can't compete with that. That's it for now.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 05:16am

Roy, do you acknowledge any scenario where Chicago is not inducted?

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 10.15.15 @ 22:52pm

No I don't because of Chicago's status as being the # 4 all-time charting rock and roll band on Billboard behind the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and the Beach Boys, and being followed by the Bee Gees. The voters know this. Chicago belongs with that group. Chicago is a shoe-in for 2016.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 07:44am

Are you going to be OK when it doesn't happen?

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 13:22pm

I can easily Back Roy on this. Chicago is the most Sure thing going. They had a Long career with Lots of hits. They are a more sure thing than my beloved Moody Blues. After all Moodys were not nominated. This is not about the Moodys. That's for another time. I do believe Roy is correct about them being the #4 all time charting R N R band. Also they had innovative albums in the beginning at least. The only that weakens them is their later Pop. I don't like that stuff. However I may point out that without even the strength of Key innovative albums Hall & Oates went in. I say that if Hall & Oates can go in then surely Chicago will. Chicago have the key early albums plus the Pop hits that came later.

I do agree that You're the Inspiration and those other 80s hits are not too great. Certainly not like the early stuff. Come on Hall & Oates went in even though they did Maneater and those others. I'm not trying to bash Hall & Oates totally. I'm just saying that pop Hits didn't hurt them.

Also Chicago will get the Votes. All kinds of Voters can place a Vote for them. They are sort of a Household Name. At least for those over 35.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 17:28pm

So I listened to Kiko online last night Dezmond, and I have ambivalent feelings regarding the album. On the positive side, there's a fascinating and seamless blend of different instruments, which is always going to impress me. Tracks that stood out to me include Dream in Blue (I love the subtle organ and hard-sounding saxes), That Train Don't Stop Here (Dig the bluesy rhythm and guitar solos), Kiko and the Lavender Moon (Haunting piano in the background, jazzy bass), Arizona Skies (A nice guitar showcase that blends flamenco, Hawaiian, and Tejano styles), Just A Man (Moody piano, solid blues-style guitar, and a haunting build-up), and Wicked Rain (A solid groovy beat, supplemented by melodic Latin saxes, driving drumming, and that subtle yet appealing organ). On the opposite end of the spectrum, there's a too much folk/roots-rock-sounding material like Saint Behind the Glass (It's too vocally/lyrically driven, and what music there is primarily consists of a too mellow-sounding guitar), Reva's House (Rather standard-sounding guitar-based roots rock, although not as painful to my ears as the atrocious Tom Petty album Full Moon Fever), When the Circus Comes to Town (Again, not enough solos and too many vocals for my liking), Short Side of Nothing (Another filler track, IMHO), and Whiskey Trail (The guitar solo uses too much distortion, which I prefer in moderation rather than in excess). The usage of guitar distortion effects can be overwhelming at times, but when used sparingly, it does shine on this album. My feelings on folk/roots rock are well-known around these parts, so I'm not going to recapitulate why I don't enjoy those styles. Overall, Kiko has gotten me interested enough in exploring more of Los Lobos' discography, provided there's more material that is in the vein of what I find most appealing about LL already. I'll rate it about 3 out of 5, because it is a good album with some unique musical ideas and a mesmerizing blend of diverse instruments, but the presence of some filler material and a little too much folky/roots rock keep it from entering my top albums.

I sincerely hope you do not find my critique to be overly harsh in the missives because I generally trust your musical judgments (Neil Young and Lindsey Buckingham notwithstanding) and did find much to admire about Kiko. That's why I stated at the outside that my overall opinion of the album is very much a shade of a grey as opposed to being too black-and-white. I eagerly await your response.

Posted by Zach on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 18:00pm

I have to back Roy on Chicago too. I can not see Chicago not getting inducted this year. From what I see they have the respect of their peers. How many of the critics of their 80s era have a vote for who gets inducted? Those are the people whose opinions really matter - not us arm chair critics.

There are several artist whose earlier work was more appreciated than their later work. Rod Stewart, David Bowie and Mick Jagger were made fun of in a derogatory manner because their later work was looked down upon. They got in with no problem.

The Bee Gees were banned from rock radio because of Saturday Fever and they are in. Saturday Night Fever and the fallout gave Chicago problems because horns were associated with r&b and at that time everything r&b and not just disco was a problem for a lot of rockers. The fact that Peter Cetera included the Bee Gees in the recording of Little Miss Lovin should actually be seen for the bold move that it was, especially at a time when they were trying to regroup from the loss of Terry.

Posted by Zuzu on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 18:10pm

What are people smoking?
The 6 nominees that should be in are:
Deep Purple
Chicago
Yes
Steve Miller (as well as his backing band)
Cheap Trick
and The Cars
If they also could squeeze in a 7th with Chic, that'd be a huge rock and roll hall of fame ceremony.

Posted by DioRainbkw on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 18:20pm

"What are people smoking?"

Most people don't live in a classic rock fanboy bubble.

Posted by DarinRG on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 18:44pm

Zach, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to check Kiko out. From your review you obviously gave it your full attention. We can disagree on certain things about the record (you are right in that if you not like roots/folk elements, then some of Kiko will not appeal to you). I'm not sure what else to recommend by them, because several of their other best albums are even more in the roots rock/ folk vein (like the By the Light of the Moon album, which I love but you probably wouldn't).

Anyway, you are awesome for checking it out.

Did I ever tell you that I really got into Gary Numan after your recommendation on this site awhile back? That is something cool about this site, we argue and disagree because we all feel strongly about this stuff, but we can also share great music suggestions and open each others ears to some new sounds.

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 18:45pm

Thanks for your reply, Dezmond. I will generally give something new a fair chance. I got sick of hearing Los Lobos's cover of La Bama, so when I saw your recommendation, I figured I'd better give Kiko a listen. I do plan to save the tracks I enjoyed to my iTunes and skip the ones I disliked. I suppose I'll check some samples of Los Lobos's other work and see if anything else strikes the right chord with me.

I do recall reading that my advocacy of Gary Numan turned you on to him. I'm glad his music endeared himself to you. Which albums have you listened to? I have The Pleasure Principle and Telekon, plus some of his singles from the 1997 comp Premier Hits (which also includes some of his work with Tubeway Army, the band he played in before going solo). Much like Los Lobos, Numan is unfairly remembered by the mainstream for 1 song (In GN's case, it's Cars). I can't tell you how many times I've brought his name up in musical conversation (both in real life and online) and not had the other person recognize him until I quoted a few lines or hummed a chorus from Cars. Quite frustrating for this Numanite. I really enjoy his dark take on synthpop and how he blends synthesizers with more traditional instruments. He explores a lot of musical ground in Telekon, including classical strings and violins on The Joy Circuit, piano-driven tracks like Photograph (There's a piano-only version of Down on the Park on the 1998 CD release that is absolutely gorgeous), the funk=styled Remind Me to Smile, and even a synthesized rendition of Trois Gymnopedies (First Movement) that adds a new layer of mystique to this classical standard). I'd give Telekon a shot if you haven't heard it.

I too agree on the nature of having passionate agreements and disagreements that can lead to inspired, informative discussion.. While I've lost interest in tracking the Hall of Fame, I do enjoy my conversations with you.

Posted by Zach on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 19:24pm

Hello, all,

It's been a long time since I've posted a comment on this site, but with the recent nominees for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame announced, I felt that I should post my thought on who I think should get in.

Deep Purple: Just them let in already!
The Cars: Took them long enough.
Janet Jackson: Amazingly talented. Hopefully, she'll get in this year.
NWA: I haven't seen "Straight Outta Compton" yet, but it should provide NWA with some much needed leverage to get into the Hall.
Nine Inch Nails: It's a shame that they weren't inducted this year, so it would be nice if they would get in next year.
Yes: Should've been inducted years ago.

These are just my picks, but what are your guys' opinions on my picks. Feel free to let me know.

Posted by Andrew on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 19:37pm

About the 2016 Nominees, Dezmond wrote:
Are you going to be OK when it doesn't happen?
Friday, 10.16.15 @ 13:22pm

It's going to happen. The Rock Hall wants it to happen. Obama is President. The Chicago Blackhawks are winning Stanley Cups. The Chicago Cubs are going to win the World Series this year and Chicago is going to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2016.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 19:41pm

Two other points I want to add to our discussion, Dezmond:

1. You probably noticed that one of my chief complaints with Kiko is that vocals are emphasized over the actual musicianship in some of the songs. You already know I despise political proselytizing in music, but I also don't care for music where vocals and lyrics (any kind) are emphasized over the instrumentation and musicianship. I do appreciate fine singers of the ilk of Nat King Cole, Freddie Mercury, Billy Eckstine, and Howlin' Wolf, to name some I admire, but I listen to music for the music. I've always found it peculiar, even strange, that anyone would value songwriting or singing over the actual musical content. I find this narrow view akin to someone who would watch movies to listen to dialogue, thus missing the visual elements like cinematography, set design, costumes, physical acting, and use of color. Film is a visual artform and should accordingly be judged as such (People are free to study dialogue all they want, but it's not an essential component to film. Just look at the silent era). I have trained my ears to pick up on instrumental solos, chord changes, interplay between musicians (such as trading solos and how different instruments drive the rhythm, melody, or harmony) and virtuosity first and foremost. When listening to a singer, I pay more attention to how the vocalist phrases words and utilizes vocal techniques (especially in jazz with scat and vocalese). This is why I find favor with such genres as jazz, blues (electric/post-WWII, I loathe the earlier acoustic stuff which isn't as musically complex or adventurous), synthpop/electronic, classical, instrumental rock, and funk, as well as why I despise singer-songwriter, folk, and punk. I simply have no tolerance for mediocre musicianship and demand at least some competency to be able to enjoy music. I may not be a musician or have studied music theory, but my ears are well-trained and can tell what sounds pleasing or offensive.

2. In order of preference, I find these instruments the most satisfying and enriching to hear:

1. Piano
2. Saxophone
3. Trumpet/Cornet
4. Harmonicas
5. Synthesizers
6. Drums/Drum Machines
7. Blues/Jazz/Classical Guitar
8. Miscellaneous: Clarinet, Violin, Fiddle, Bass, Trombone, Jazz Banjo, Tuba, Slide Whistle, and Cymbals.

Posted by Zach on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 20:31pm

Zuzu,

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. What Chicago did in the 80s and after doesn't matter. They had already made their Mark. Some said that could be a Hindrance. It didn't hurt over half the Artists in the Hall. We totally agree. Rod Stewart made his mark with his material before 1975. He is a good example of a long career that went bad later. He was Inducted based on Early albums not Infatuation or Something. There's so many examples like that. Same thing with Chicago,

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 21:06pm

Part of me would really love to see Chicago not make it in just to shut Roy up as well his "Illuminati <3 Windy City In The '10s" conspiracy theory. But at this point, unless the Hall decides to proactively punish the people who bot-attacked the fan ballot by ejecting Chicago from the official count, they're in.

Just as long as their effin' football team doesn't win the Superbowl before the HAWAIIAN president leaves office.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10/16/2015 @ 23:59pm

So just to continue I happen to feel that there are a lot of artists in the Hall who did not have great Material later on if they had a long Career. David Bowie is another example for sure. The early albums like Ziggy Stardust and Alladin Sane made him Very worthy but an album like Tonight Not so much. I do like some of his later.

Other Inductees like the Bee Gees, Fleetwood Mac Billy Joel and certainly Traffic. In the case of the Bee Gees they were Inducted with their Early career in Mind as well when they did tunes like New York Mining Disaster. A lot of People just may not have realized. I know you did Zuzu. Their 60s early 70s stuff. They went in despite the Night Fever stuff. I mean Fleetwood Mac. Even if we say they were highly regarded passed Rumours. They were not Regarded as Favorably after Mirage. This includes Gypsy as great Stuff.

The Point is that Chicago would not be Ruined by 80s Hits like You're My Inspiration. They were a best selling 70s artist just like the ones I said. I know you agree Zuzu. The ones above are in so as we move ahead Chicago is a key seller that's Left Plus they had key albums in the Beginning like those others. Roy and Zuzu we totally agree

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 06:48am

About the 2016 Nominees, Philip wrote:

Part of me would really love to see Chicago not make it in just to shut Roy up as well his "Illuminati <3 Windy City In The '10s" conspiracy theory. But at this point, unless the Hall decides to proactively punish the people who bot-attacked the fan ballot by ejecting Chicago from the official count, they're in.

Just as long as their effin' football team doesn't win the Superbowl before the HAWAIIAN president leaves office.

Friday, 10.16.15 @ 23:59pm

Punish the people who bot-attacked the fan ballot? It only counts as one vote! So what! We were told to vote often. Plus, you better hope Chicago is inducted in 2016, or I will never shut up! Also, Barack Obama will be in office until mid-January 2017. The 2016-2017 NHL, NBA and NFL seasons will have started before President Obama leaves office. So if any of the Chicago teams win championships in 2017 you will still hear about it from me. After 2017 I am never going to post anything again on Future Rock Legends unless someone from Chicago dies, Elton John dies or Bernie Taupin gets inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or dies. My job here will be done.

Chicago will be inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in 2016! It's done! Tom Morello wore a CTA cap at the ceremony last year.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 06:55am

What if Bernie Taupin and Chicago are both inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in 2016, and Chaka Khan too? Bernie Taupin wrote the lyrics for Dip Your Wings, a song from Peter Cetera's 1992 album, World Falling Down, which also included a duet with Chaka Khan (Feels Like Heaven).

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 07:11am

I'm afraid the post-If You Leave Me Now period could still be an obstacle, because I have the feeling that this is what they are ultimately best remembered for. When people think about Fleetwood Mac, they will first think of Rumours. Billy Joel is and always will be the Piano Man. But when people think of Chicago, they will sooner think about You're the Inspiration and Hard to Say I' Sorry than about 25 or 6 to 4.

The Bee Gees are a special case. I can imagine that some people voted for their induction despite of Saturday Night Fever, but others voted because of that album.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 07:13am

The nominees for the 2017 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame will be announced while President Barack Obama is still in office. The 2017 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction ceremony though, will be held after Barack Obama has left office.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 07:25am

This is False. Chicago is very well Remembered for those early album. Even if masses of people remember You're My Inspiration there is the Hall & Oates thing. They got in and some of their most Known hits are Kiss on my List and Maneater. If you then say there is the early albums the same applies to Chicago. Chicago's early stuff is Much more know than Hall & Oates.

I stick With Roy and Zuzu. Guys I need your Help especially you Zuzu. It don't matter about the cheesy later hits even if they are more known. Guys like Hall & Oates got in.

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 07:40am

The difference between Chicago's 80s pop and the Hall & Oates 80s pop, is that the Hall & Oates 80s pop was better. Private Eyes is considered one of the best pop albums ever produced. Rolling Stone magazine gave Private Eyes 5 STARS. Chicago 16, 17, 18, and 19 all got 1 STAR each.

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 08:27am

Chicago is more remembered for their 70s songs. They are the ones that are more requested. The only 80s song that gets a lot of requests is You're the Inspiration. 25 Or 6 To 4, Saturday In the Park, Beginnings, Does Anybody Know What Time It Is and of course If You Leave Me Now. If You Leave Me Now had been covered by over 100 artist. It was #1 worldwide for 2 weeks. Saturday In the Park is a 4th of July staple. A lot of the 70s songs are still being played by marching bands. Peter Cetera's audiences get excited when he does the 70s Chicago songs. Somebody remembers that Peter Cetera played bass. Chicago's signature song is still 25 Or
6 To 4. The kids know it.

Roy, do you think RS's ranking of Chicago albums should be taken seriously?

I take Chicago 80s comments for exactly what it is - anti-Chicago propaganda. There are too many artist that are in the hall that have songs of a similar vein. Doesn't anybody remember Just Another Silly Love Song?

Bee Gees are remembered for one thing and one thing only - Saturday Night Fever and that falsetto. Anyone that thinks this was a good reason to put them in the hall really needs to read up on John Travolta. The songs and the movie were pushed down our throats. A lot of the disco songs that came out afterwards were considered the low end of disco. A lot of people that were into disco say that you need to hear the songs before the disco craze to understand that it could be good. They are no exception. If you asked them I think you will find that that most people who lived through that era and the overplay of those songs do not want to hear it ever again. It was overdone

Ben, I wouldn't call 80s Chicago cheesy. That is their word and what is interesting is songs in a similar vein that they don't use the word for. I believe it is very telling.

It does not matter what people with an anti-Chicago agenda think. It matters what their peers think. Unless a significant number of people in the voting body are known to be planning not to vote for Chicago because of their 80s material there is really no reason to bring it up. On the other hand I can look at the number of artist that are in the hall and have covered or sampled a Chicago song, claim Chicago as an influence or have worked with Chicago or individual members.

Chicago is just too much an important part of Rock history to be passed over. They were the little engine that could. Their record company was promoting BST and ignoring them. They got noticed because of a grassroots effort. BST faded away in a few years. Chicago stayed relevant and became the dominating rock group of the 70s.

I remember the rumors that were going around in the 70s that they were getting the raw end of the deal from the record company and their manager. Danny said that after the first tour several members of the group still owed money. In order to get those double albums they had to agree to cut their take in half. Then add in that they were twice as big as most rock bands of that era. They were also getting worn out from a grueling schedule. Their manager and record company were playing head games with them to keep them in line. This is probably the major reason that Terry accidentally shot and killed himself.

The 70s were the start of the money makers taking over the music business. Lawyers were running the music business instead of musicians. Artist were being pushed into a money making niche and variety was frowned upon. Don't for get that despite the depth of your album work, The general public knew an artist by the singles that were being played on the radio. Guess who controlled which songs were released as singles. If you want to understand what was happening to 70s artist, I would suggest looking up what Melanie has to say about what was going on in the 70s. She has some pretty insightful things to say.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 11:14am

Would you say Deep Purple was the most influential band of these nominees? I always hear that Deep Purple was 1 of the trinity with Zeppelin & Sabbath. I knows Lars talks about his affection for Deep Purple and several artists have cited them as influences. Roy & Zuzu have made impassioned posts about Chicago getting inducted. Chicago sure has momentum getting inducted with many 70's hits. I'm thinking Chicago and Deep Purple are 2 bands that will be inducted. A Deep Purple induction would move Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, & Motorhead to the top of the line. KING

Posted by KING on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 13:32pm

Zuzu,

Thank you for your help. You are better at explaining these things. Sorry for the word cheesy. The Sum up is forget the 80s stuff of Chicago. We'll just drop it. The Voters will remember their Earlier hits and albums. 25 or 6 to 4 and Saturday in the Park are 2 of their signature tunes. I do agree about Blood, Sweat & tears. Also a fine group but they faded after a few years. Nobody Cared about B,S & T by 1976. People still loved Chicago. I Remember that from when I was a kid.

So Chicago is one of the No Brainers to me. I want to talk about some of the other Classic Rock Choices. Some are more popular than others

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 13:53pm

Ben,

The the descriptions used, cheesy, syrupy and similar terms mean nothing more than too girly. To me that is sexist thinking. The ladies have as just as much right as the guys to have an opinion on what is good and what is bad. Being a woman, I am more in tune to what the term really means - so no problem.

I'm sensitive to this because I feel that who gets in to the hall is pretty much still a boy's club. The important thing is not about more women getting in. It is about having our opinion respected.

Most people speak of music in terms of decades. I think that is misleading. A switch seems to occur every five years. You see a phasing out of the older style and a newer style coming in. The people I knew in the 70s considered the Who and the Stones as old news, British Invasion groups from the 60s.

It still all come down to not what we or our friends think. It matters what those who can vote think. We can make some guesses based on actions and words from the voting body. I still see the number of artist in the hall that have connections or have said positive things about Chicago. These are the ones I know about. I am sure that there are more that have not been mentioned but hinted about.

I would like to add that Government's cover of Chicago's Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? is included on Deep Purple's 2002 Listen Learn Read On set. They must have thought enough of Chicago to include it in their album in 2002.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 14:36pm

Zuzu,

I withdraw the term Cheesy and apologize. Also out of respect for my lovely girlfriend. She loves Pop. She wouldn't even Know the early great albums. She is an avid Pop fan. She however as a pop Fan loves their 70s and 80s Hits. She is my Age which is about 50. She loves hits like Saturday in the Park and Just You n' Me but also hits like Will You Still Love Me.

However the point remains that Chicago have songs for every one. Therefore an easy winner for the Rock Hall. She knows of the Rock Hall. I told her Chicago were nominated. She responded finally and felt they would get in. I would love to take My Girl friend to see Chicago. We would both like it. She doesn't like Hard Rock. She would never see Van Halen for instance. She enjoys Pop. Older Pop mostly like Carly Simon, Barry Manilow and James Taylor.

I would like to cover other Inductees. Particularly some the Classic Rock ones. How do chances look for the Cars and Yes?

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 15:07pm

Ben,

Sweet Baby James - music for the soul. I think of him more rock - folk fusion than pop. You are both about the same age as my younger siblings.

Steve Miller - I read that a lot of his songs get sampled. He also spent time in Chicago's Blues community. Did he make connections there that can translate into votes? It's his first time up. I suspect he will be inducted.

I'm taking these two together. Yes and Deep Purple - These are the 2 Brits that have been nominated before. The question is why didn't they get the votes to be inducted. Both have quite a few samplings. Both have a following.
Has their influence been overestimated in comparison to other artist of the era? I think what has been holding them back is that their influence is more narrow band in comparison to other contemporaries. Several of their contemporaries have a more wide band appeal. I find it hard to say if they get in this time or not. I think it could go either way.

Cheap Trick and the Cars are hard for me to evaluate. They are both going into an era where I wasn't too crazy about the changes that were happening in rock so it is hard for me to give a fair evaluation. I see listings for influence and covers or samples. Which I could see can support their getting in. Then I have to go back to what I feel instinctively that they are narrow band compared to other contemporaries that had a wider scope. I know this doesn't help but I have to go with it could go either way with these two.

When I say narrow band and wide scope I am talking about who they appeal to in age and style and gender and across genres. I look at who says something about them - Is older artist, contemporaries or younger artist. Do artist in other styles talk about them or do you hear from artist that are only of a similar style. Do artist in other talk about them with respect or consider them an influence? I feel the wider the range an artist covers the higher are that artist chances are of getting the votes.

I realize that a lot of people support these artist and that is why I am saying that it could go either way. I think one or two will get in but I would have to think about which ones it would be.

I like some hard rock. I'm not that into Van Halen which I see as Californiazed version of REO. I See Eddie Van Halen as a hot dogger. It could be the age thing though. I realize that most people would disagree with me. My taste in hard rock goes more towards BIO and Def Leppard.

I love BTO's Let It Ride. To me it has the quintessential rock growl.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 16:54pm

ENIG

Would you consider The Spinners Prog Adjacent with their use of strings and orchestration in Could It Be I'm Falling In Love? I'll Be Around and some other hits. I voted for The Spinners this year too. Tough ballot but they could get votes from R&B and some of the older voters. Who of the RRHOF voters would vote for The Spinners? Sounds like Roy research.

ROY-Great comment on the best singers. I think Zander is criminally underrated as singer. Cetera one of the best as well. KING

Posted by KING on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 17:56pm

"Punish the people who bot-attacked the fan ballot? It only counts as one vote! So what! We were told to vote often."--Roy

Yes you were, but if bot-attacks skewed the fan ballot that badly, this is exactly the power-tripping kind of move the Rock Hall could pull to assert their elitist dominance over us, the people they deign to amuse by even allowing a fan ballot in the first place. I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past them to do it, regardless of how the professionals' votes turn out.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 20:33pm

Other favs of my girl friend Include Donna Summer, Madonna, Billy Joel and Olivia Newton John. So she is very different in Taste to me. A key indication of James Taylor as a Rock Folk fusion is that I like him. I am not into Olivia Newton John. That's pure pop that never did anything for me. Oh and my girl friend loves Lionel Richie. When I say Pop it means she likes only the Pop hits. Clearly Billy Joel is also Rock. Actually in his case she knows some albums.

As for me. I love my Rock and some Folk. I totally agree on Let it Ride. That is one of my Fav Rock tunes. I also like Def Leppard quite a bit.

I think Yes may get in while Deep Purple fall short. I think Yes are slightly more popular and will therefore get more Votes. It's not as clear Cut as Chicago. Yes just had the Loss of Chris Squire. This could be known by the Voting Body.
That's it or now

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/17/2015 @ 20:50pm

I would love to see Janet Jackson make to the 2016 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She is an icon and most of these young artists today get their inspiration from her.

Posted by Jennifer Davis on Sunday, 10/18/2015 @ 09:16am

Rick

Tough luck with ELO this year. It played out like I thought with different genres taking the slots leaving ELO without a chair. Things looking good for ELO 2016 Nominations. Chicago, Deep Purple, YES might all be inducted this year. That should open a spot for ELO in 2016-2017. My FAV ELO song probably Evil Woman. Rick, who are you hoping to get inducted in 2016? KING

Posted by KING on Sunday, 10/18/2015 @ 18:22pm

Roy,

It was touch luck on ELO. It made sense for them to be Nominated. It seems like the Hall will include Prog slowly but will be slower than I thought. I predicted 3 prog groups this Year. Next year I am only predicting the Moody Blues in this area. I think the Hall will only nominate one Prog group at a time. I am realizing that reality. So I'll go with Moody Blues.

Totally different people like Gordon Lightfoot, Harry Nilsson and the Meters may get nominated next year. No way I'm predicting a lot for next Year right Now. I'm saying people like those may shut ELO out again.

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 10/18/2015 @ 20:45pm

Ben,

I think that the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame wants to remain enigmatic. They probably do not want us to figure out what they are doing. Since only six of my nominees made the list, I will simply move my nominees list to 2017, instead.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Sunday, 10/18/2015 @ 21:03pm

Enigmaticus: You're a good authority on progressive rock, so I figured I'd ask you: what do you know about the band Aphrodites Child? I know them for the most part as being the band that Vangelis got his start with.

Posted by SotN on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 05:03am

SotN,

I'm not sure about Enig. I have heard of Aphrodite's Child. I am not nearly as Prog as Enig but I have heard of them. I can tell you why that is. I worked at a Used Record shop I the late 80s with a Hippie Boss. He mentioned FM artists of the late 60s and early 70s everyday, You should ask the expert Enig. I just thought I'd throw that in. You see that boss was not listening to average Hits. He was listening to FM in NY back in the early 70s. I don't know much about them. They were quite obscure. Obscure stuff was Common on FM radio in the early 70s.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 05:32am

No what I was saying is I think ELO will mis next year too. I mean this year the Hall only nominated Yes in the Prog bunch. I'm assuming that Yes will be Inducted. They were one of the Most popular of all Prog groups. This will free up the Moody Blues and others.

I am only going to predict One prog at a time moving forward in an effort to be more right. The Hall doesn't want us to figure out what it's doing. They probably don't. I do know that a lot of them involved in the Hall don't like Prog but they seem to be loosening Up very slightly. I am then figuring one nominee of prog at a time. I tried for 3. It didn't work.

SO as a result Others like Gordon Lightfoot, Harry Nilsson, the Meters and the Commodores would be Nominated instead along with the Moody Blues. I am figuring Singer/Songwriters will make a comeback and more R&B. I don't want to get into predicting Next Year. I'll stick with this Year.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 05:54am

King,

I meant to respond to you about ELO. I mix Names up sometimes. Sorry About that. In any Case it was Tough luck with ELO not being nominated. I am now going with 1 Prog Nom a year from Now on. I'll go with the Moody Blues. Logic dictates that after Yes they work on them. I was a prediction experiment this Year. It didn't work. I think Singer/ Songwriters will make a return I think and there may be a bunch of R&B like the Meters and perhaps the Commodores. Also more 90s next year.

I'm assuming Yes will be Inducted. They have a previous nomination going for them and also Chris Squire Passed. I'll stick with this Year as I said. This year's Prog choice is Yes. I do think Chicago Will be Inducted too. The Cars I predict also which makes 3 Classic Rock artists. The other 3 I think will be R&B. Janet Jackson whether we like it or Not seems like a No Brainer. I am not a fan at all but she is so Famous. The Madonna is and she went in.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 08:15am

I agree with most of what Ben says. I also see ELO being pushed back. They are one of the few Brit prog bands to have hits in the US and that is a plus. But...

I think ELO might have a similar problem to Boston. When I take each song individually I would give them high marks. Then I look at their work as a whole and this is where I have a problem. I find that too many of their songs are too similar. It is almost as if it was a slight variation on one song. I can see this being a negative for them in regards to depth. Maybe it's just me because I haven't seen anybody else bring it up.

I am now going to look at this as who would have a better chance of getting support from the voting body. I still think that at this point in time American Prog bands, Kansas and Styx have a better chance of getting in. Out of the Brit prog bands the 2 I see as having the greatest shot at induction are ELP and Moody Blues.

I think that because when you step outside of prog enthusiasts, that Kansas and Styx are better known to the general public. I think that could help them. Kansas and Styx were talked about in the 70s and 80s. I think both hit some core Heartland mythos. I think you will also find that there is some crossover between Heartland mythos and Southern mythos.

Maybe Ben you can give your input on what you remember your boss saying. The reason I would give higher emphasis to ELP and Moody Blues is for exact same reason I knew Butterfield Blues band was important even though I don't recall any of their music. People that were older than me talked about them. These were people who went to college. ELP had a lot more of a buzz about them than either of the other two.

I pretty much agree with Ben about not more than one prog group at a time. There are too many backlogs in North American 70s rock groups, folk, country, singer/songwriters and there are still some upper tier artist from the 60s missing. The only way I can see multiple prog artist being nominated is if some of the backlog in other areas gets caught up a bit. I diverge from Ben in that until the catch up on some of the other variety of artist that they also need to dial back a bit on the number of r&b artist nominated each year down to 3 or 4. I also think they need to keep numbers low on the numbers of Eastern Seaboard, California and Brit artist until backlog areas are brought up to the sane level. It would help some to have higher numbers inducted.

At the rate they are going, artist that should have been inducted already will not get inducted for another 20 or 30 years. The nom com created this problem. Right now I see what they are doing as being too little too late. There are too many relevant 70s artist that have been backlogged too long. I see having another super induction as just adding salt to the wound. It would be seen as diluting their importance when less important artist have been let in with bigger pomp.

Ben, I think that the Commodores might not get in except as sidemen behind a Lionel Richie induction. I think what he has done solo will eclipse what the Commodores have done. Although Brick House was an anthem - so it is possible that may help them in sticking out. Lionel Richie's album Tuskegee went to #1 when it came out in 2012. He redid several songs with guest country artist. How many r&b artist have made any waves on the country charts?

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 10:56am

http://fox8.com/2015/10/08/nominees-announced-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction/

" target="_blank" title="http://fox8.com/2015/10/08/nominees-announced-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction/[/img]">http://fox8.com/2015/10/08/nominees-announced-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction/[/img]

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 14:47pm

http://fox8.com/2015/10/08/nominees-announced-for-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction/

" target="_blank" title="https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12108300_10101223417643365_8441540499849196050_n.jpg?oh=f47d3921ad0218af32532dfd2ee0790c&oe=56CA5E75[/img]">https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12108300_10101223417643365_8441540499849196050_n.jpg?oh=f47d3921ad0218af32532dfd2ee0790c&oe=56CA5E75[/img]

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 14:48pm

Zuzu,

Excellent response. You are absolutely right. After Yes the standouts for British Prog are Moody Blues and ELP. I figure you were talking about Prog groups being nominated after Yes. I feel very strongly that they will be inducted Now.

I certainly Can give my Input on what my FM Hippie Boss said. He used to talk in fact about How the Paul Butterfield Blues Bad were important. He spoke a lot about the Moody Blues. He spoke even more about them. He loved their first 5 Albums. He said they were dynamite and were one of the most talked about Bands out of Britain in 1968 and 69. He stopped listening to Rock in 1973 he said. He felt His FM heyday was ending. He didn't listen too much to ELP.

However, there was an employee like me 8 years younger than him that was in High School in the Mid 70s. He was much more of a 70s guy. This employee was a teenager in the Mid 70s as opposed to late 60s like the Boss. That employee loved ELP. The employee said ELP were very important and saw them in 74 or something. Not the Boss though. That employee was a little older than me. He also loved Yes, Rush and Jethro Tull. He dug early Kansas and other early arena Rock as it's called. That employee also loved Atlanta Rhythm Section and other Americans like that.

Now just getting back to Upper tier of the 60s. Would we include Steppenwolf as one of those? The Hippie boss told me they were huge and important. Not as key as the 60s people Inducted but known.


I agree on the backlog of North American 70s Rock as well as Folk and Singer/Songwriters. Good possibilities in the next couple years are Kansas, Styx and Journey. Joe Walsh solo is somebody to consider. He has made appearances at Rock Hall ceremonies. I'm going to refrain from predicting nominees specifically for 2017. I mentioned several. Enough said.

As far as Folk and Singer/Songwriters I agree with your choice of Gordon Lightfoot. There is a buzz on Harry Nilsson. Joan Baez is a possibility. This is even with the Nom Com change. Only the oldest are gone. Joan Baez was notable in the 60s and 70s. I'm sure there are some left that know and dig her. Jon Landau perhaps.

I was guessing as far as Commodores for R&B. Probably not so fast on that one. A better choice is War. They have been nominated before.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 14:55pm

" target="_blank" title="https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12108300_10101223417643365_8441540499849196050_n.jpg?oh=f47d3921ad0218af32532dfd2ee0790c&oe=56CA5E75[/img]">https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12108300_10101223417643365_8441540499849196050_n.jpg?oh=f47d3921ad0218af32532dfd2ee0790c&oe=56CA5E75[/img]

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 14:58pm

Ben,

I think I need to define how my tier system works. It goes from tier 1 - no brainer should be in the hall 1st year eligible, through tier 10 - are you kidding - not even after everybody else is in. There is no one group of tiers. I keep separate tiers for genre and to some degree will break it down to sub-genres.

I don't believe in one ranking. I think anything should first be ranked according to style break downs. I hate a ranking such as best guitarist or vocalist that doesn't break it down to sub groups first. I've seen too many lists that are almost all metal or hard rock.

My 60s top tiers are Patsy Cline, Chubby Checker and Joan Baez. Patsy Cline - maybe you need to be a female from that era to understand the breakthroughs she made. Chubby Checker - The twist was so big when I was little. The game Twister comes from the dance as well as an exercise device called the Twister. It was done at all the parties when there was a live band for a long time. Joan Baez - do you realize how many people she helped. One of them was Bob Dylan.

Steppenwolf I would rank at about 3 or 4. The had some good songs and if they had come out with more in that vein I would rank them higher. I think they were really relevant for about a year or two. I think that pulls them down.

As far as my next up for 70's bands, I would say it is a toss up between the Guess Who and Journey. I would give the edge to the Guess Who because they were relevant earlier. Journey didn't have their break out till Steve Perry joined and they released Infinity. Infinity is probably their most underrated album. I like their 80s stuff but I really enjoy the contrast between Greg Rollie's and Steve Perry's vocals.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 16:12pm

Zuzu and Ben,

More important than any of the prog bands you have been discussing as far as influence and innovation is King Crimson. In a just world, Crimson would have been the first prog band inducted.

Posted by Dezmond on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 20:45pm

Dezmond

You must be happy to see The Cars on the ballot this year. I remember groups like Blondie, Talking Heads, The Pretenders, Elvis Costello making it pretty much 1st ballot. My feeling is The Cars would make it this year but Chicago, Deep Purple, YES strong contenders. With your music knowledge, who of the new wave and classic rock voters would vote for The Cars? Enter Roy with a list. What would your Top 5 The Cars songs be? Love this ballot of nominees. Can't find any fault with it other than no Duran Duran or Moody Blues. KING

Posted by KING on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 21:56pm

Dezmond,

Greg Lake was in both bands
ELP was the first band to travel with a moog.

Along with Keith Emerson being one of the moog pioneers, Dennis DeYoung of Styx is also considered a moog pioneer. Due to the increased popularity of electronic music I see both ELP and Styx having a wider potential for influence.

Outside of prog how much of the general public is going to be familiar with King Crimson. I never heard of them back in the 70s. I did hear a lot of people talk about ELP. I do realize that you are more familiar with prog so how influential is King Crimson outside of prog?

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/19/2015 @ 22:48pm

I can definitely say some things about this. Unlike my Hippie Boss I was listening to FM in the late 70s early 80s. ELP was still played a whole lot. King Crimson were not. Greg Lake was indeed in both bands. He is much more known for ELP. When I came along as a Rock Listener ELP were on the last tour of their Heyday. Just like Zuzu I did not hear of King Crimson in the 70s. Even when I was 13 I heard of ELP.

ELP were known for some big Tours. The 70s Employee at the shop named Kevin saw them a couple times. He didn't mention King Crimson. I came to hear them but prefer ELP.

Enig should chime in here. Where are you? Well in the meantime I will say I totally agree with Zuzu, That is right on the button. I am not nearly so focused on Prog as Enig but I can tell you I bought a lot of ELP albums not King Crimson. That's me. So Outside of Prog how much of the General Public is going to be familiar with King Crimson. Prog is having enough trouble in the Hall.

So if you consider how gradual Prog is even being nominated it will probably be over 10 years before King Crimson is even nominated. Longer at this rate. I don't even think ELP will make it to ballots until about 2019 or 2020. ELP were very successful with their albums and that's what I see for them.

It always comes back to the Moody Blues. They are known by the general Public. My Girl friend even knows about the Moody Blues and she is into Pop and Mainstream Rock. She certainly don't know prog. People like Billy Joel Carly Simon and Olivia Newton John are her Usual speed. Yet she knows about the Moody Blues. That's why I am always predicting them. Moody Blues besides Prog also make a good 60s choice. Late 60s early 70s is what I say.

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 04:56am

If the Rock Hall starts picking nominees/inductees based on who people remember hearing about when they were younger, what their boss listened to or what the average person thinks, they should just stop. None of those things matter.

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 07:54am

I thought the point was to figure out which artist should be picked. Asking why an artist was not known or why didn't people want to buy their music are very valid questions. So is why were people talking about one artist and not talking about another.

Not sure where you get that hall is picking on this criteria or should.

One of the possible reasons we have come up with for why there was a buzz about ELP is because they were the first band to use a moog in concert. I believe that is a fairly important point to show that an artist was influential. So now the question is did King Crimson influence artist that were not prog.

You didn't happen to know did you?

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 08:31am

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/10/rock_hall_fan_vote_stirs_contr.html

Cleveland.com: Has this year's Rock Hall Fan Vote been hijacked by computer hackers?

Posted by FRL on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 09:33am

First there is the direct influence on Progressive Rock bands of their era such as Genesis, ELP Yes, etc. They were also directly influential to later Prog groups like Tool, Dream Theater, and Porcupine Tree. Also with their album Red they helped create a more hard rock/heavy metal version of Prog Rock that would influence bands like Rush, Mastodon, Opeth, etc. Even Kurt Cobain has mentioned that the album Red was very influential to him. You also have other random bands like Iron Maiden and Bad Religion that have stated them as an influence. Also many of their songs have been sampled in Hip-Hop and Techno/House recordings, most famously "21st Century Schizoid Man" on Kanye West's "Power."

Lastly, bandleader Robert Fripp was directly influential to both the New Wave and Art Pop/Rock scenes of the 70's and 80's as he played on numerous albums by David Bowie, Blondie, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel, and Brian Eno. Incorporating his band's sounds into their albums. Also King Crimson's album Discipline totally fits in with those artists.

Also what made King Crimson great is they didn't keep trying to make the same album over and over again. Days of Future Passed by The Moody Blues is an amazing album, but every album afterwards to me feels like an attempt to recreate it and most of the time they fall sort. King Crimson was constantly evolving and changing. Going from pure-Progressive Rock, to Jazz Fusion, to a Hard Rock/Metal Prog, to New Wave/Art Rock. They never sit still and keep doing the same thing. That in itself is influential to many bands.

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 10:31am

Wow, just checked in and saw this conversation unfolding. Great stuff. Thanks Gassman, you made most of the King Crimson arguments for me.

It really doesn't matter how popular they were or how big the tours were. Please refer back to the criteria that the Rockhall themselves claim they use. "Musical Excellence," where factors such as "Influence," "Innovation" and musical skill are considered. Nowhere in there is "sales" or how often they are played on the radio mentioned.

Now, it may be a different discussion if we talk about what the criteria "should be." I actually do believe that popularity and sales should be part of the equation, as this is a "popular" music that we are enshrining. But only part of the equation, and not the most important. That aside, the fact is that it is not part of the currently listed criteria.

So, let's take the Rockhall's own criteria regarding King Crimson. Influence? Influence is not about how many people bought their records or remember hearing them on the radio. Influence is musical influence on other musicians. And as Gassman rightfully discusses, Crimson's influence was massive. You could argue they were really ground zero for Progressive Rock as we know it, and just as importantly (also as Gassman pointed out), they stayed relevant longer than any other progressive rock band.

They didn't try and retread the same ground. Ever. Always evolving. That leads right into innovation. Nobody was more innovative in rock and roll. Nobody. Through daring improvisation, through pioneering the use of certain instruments (the Bass Stick, the mellotron, etc.)

They were one of the first to lay the groundwork for progressive rock eschewing the blues/r&b roots of almost every other genre of rock, instead using European influences and jazz.

The musicians to go through Crimson are a who's who of influential musicians on other musicians: Robert Fripp, Greg Lake, Bill Bruford, Tony Levin, Adrian Belew, Mel Collins, etc.

Musical Excellence and Innovation? Always evolving. Their debut is often considered the first great progressive rock record. We can argue that, of course. The trilogy of early to mid-70's records stretched rock improvisation to its absolute limits, more jazz and experimental classical than rock and roll. 'Red' brought elements of metal to prog. The trilogy of early 80's records seamlessly combined New Wave conciseness and sounds with experimental textures. 'Discipline' will blow you away if you listen to what they are doing. The 90's work, as Gassman said, influenced Tool and NIN.

Why I say King Crimson should have been the first progressive rock band in the Hall is because from them sprung so much of everything else. That, combined with a consistency. There is no really bad Crimson album. And more than a handful are absolute genius.

So, you are right in that they would probably not be voted in for a long time. They do not have the popular name recognition. That does not matter. Rockhall criteria: Innovation, Influence, Musical Excellence, Musical Skill...it is a no brainer.

Your turn.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 13:34pm

And Zuzu, I'm sorry, but to say that Styx has the potential to me more influential than King Crimson is patently absurd.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 13:38pm

KING, thanks for asking re: The Cars. Yes, I was quite excited to see The Cars finally nominated. You know they have always been near the top of my personal snubs lists.

Top five songs would be very hard. I know I'd put "Night Spots" and "A Dream Away" in there. I've also always loved the song "Heartbeat City." Man, so many. "Blue Tip" off their latest is up there with their best.

As far as who would vote for them, as I have criticized people like Roy for so long for being presumptuous enough to know how others will vote, I can't really go down that road. I just hope they get in.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 13:42pm

Thanks for the info. From what I was finding on allmusic and who sampled King Crimson only had slightly more credits than ELP.

I have so far only found general and not specific artist concerning ELP's influence due to moog.

I've found that Keith Emerson worked closely with Bob Moog in the 70s and that Moog recreated Keith Emerson's modular synthesizer. It sounds like Bob Moog thought Emerson had a lot to do with the popularity of his synthesizer.

I have found that ELP is also an influence for Dream Theater. Some of the other ones for ELP that I have found are Kansas, Spock's Beard, Asia and Triumverait.

For Emerson I found credits for John Mayall, Rod Stewart, Spinal Tap, California Transit Authority, Refugee, Pink Floyd, Ringo Star, Peter Tork and Marc Bonilla.

For Lake I found credits for The Who, Ringo Star, Parliment, Ozzy Osbourne, Yes, Lizard, April Wine and Diana Ross.

For Palmer I found credits for Roger Daltrey, John Wetton, Ringo Starr, Atomic Rooster and Mike Oldfield.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 14:31pm

What do you mean "credits"? That is not influence. that is simply other artists who E, L or P played on some of their material. Palmer did not influence Roger Daltrey, but played drums on some of his solo material. Greg Lake did not influence The Who (actually, Townshend was influenced by Lake-era King Crimson, so I take that back!), but Lake played bass on two latterday Who songs after John Entwistle died. That isn't really influence.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 17:12pm

Dezmond,

just from doing a quick check on Allmusic I am coming up with over 60 credits listed for Dennis DeYoung and Tommy Shaw. I want to double check these since I am coming up with names like Asia, Alice Cooper, Edgar Winter, Pink Floyd. Aerosmith,Warren Zevon and Van Morison under Tommy Shaw and I want to make certain that some of these are not related to Damm Yankees. So I might be a day or two getting back with proof.


There are several listed criteria for getting in the hall and they are constantly adjusting it and at times the non com and voting body quite frankly throw it out the window. You might not like it and I might not like it but popularity with the public and those who put artist in the hall plays a part in who gets in and who doesn't.

I once had an art teacher say that great art is universal. To me that says that the art is going to speak to a wide variety of people. As a general rule of thumb, if an artist has quality work then people will want to listen to and buy their music. There are exceptions both ways and there are other things to look at rule out or include these exceptions.

The truth is that they are not going to fill the hall with lesser known artist. They will put some in but they are to put in more of the known artist.

I am not trying to judge who is more influential. I am trying to figure out who is most likely to get in the prog category. the artist that are more well known both by the public and the nom com and voting body are more likely to get in the hall. If a lesser known artist is not well known by the nom com or voting body they are not going to get in. Part of the truth of the process is that the most important is not always the one to get in first.

Kansas' Dust In The Wind And Wayward Son are covered quite a bit. Some of the artist that cover them are Scorpions,Melanie, Crosby Stills and Nash, Steve Walsh and Butterfield Blues Band.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 17:26pm

This idea of Popularity can be ignored sure. King Crimson it may be true should have gone in first or early for Prog. That is assuming that there are huge prog fans in the Hall committee. Unfortunately there isn't. That's why In the case of Prog They would go with the popular first. It's only because it's a genre that the Hall finds hard to grasp.

Just to confuse things a little Tom Waits went in without the benefit of much Commercial success. The difference is the Hall is biased to what they like. Certainly Dr John had very little commercial success but was inducted. These are artists the Hall regards much better. They are weak with Prog and that's why they would go with the most popular.

In genres they like the Hall goes all out on Cult artists and artists with Little or no Commercial success. A recent example is Paul Butterfield. He certainly didn't have much Sales. They are weak when it comes to Prog. I am not an authority on Prog Rock like Enig. My knowledge of King Crimson is limited. All things being equal King Crimson perhaps should have gone in just as easily as let's say Patti Smith or Tom Waits.

I am simply predicting. That is not how it should be. By the way I like Paul Butterfield. They are an artist someone like Steve VAn Zant goes for. He doesn't like Prog. I have come to know that

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 17:37pm

Actually credits can be a variety of types. It can be playing or singing on a recording or a variety of other things that are done in the production of a recording. Artist are also given credit when their songs are covered or significantly sampled and that is a sign of being an influence.

It isn't just about influence. There are different criteria that is considered. It is also about other artist respecting your work. That shows that artist is considered to have musical excellence. They are not going to work with somebody they do not respect. Don't you think that they will probably vote for that artist?

Dezmond it is about will this artist vote for you. Do You think that members of the Who would vote for either ELP or King Crimson?

"We shall consider factors such as an artist's musical influence on other artists, length and depth of career and the body of work, innovation and superiority in style and technique, but musical excellence shall be the essential qualification of induction." from the hall site

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 17:55pm

By quoting the Hall's criteria you proved my point. I am not predicting Crimson will be inducted any time soon. Maybe never. But I am saying what should happen, and based on their own criteria. True, they don't always follow their own criteria.

Again, "credits" are not influence. But if you want to play that game, Zuzu, check out Robert Fripp's credits. And don't just count the number, look at the quality too of who he has worked with. It is most impressive. Then check out Tony Levin's credits. Adrian Belew. Bill Bruford. And include Greg Lake too. Mel Collins. All Crimson alums.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 19:02pm

And even though I hate playing the game of who will vote for who, I imagine the members of The Who would vote for both. Townshend has said Crimson was an influence on him and once called Crimson's debut an "uncanny masterpiece." They would also probably vote for ELP because Greg Lake is a friend of their's.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 19:13pm

Ok, I did it for you. Going to Allmusic and counting Robert Fripp's credits I counted about 600. I stopped counting about 300 in and was about half way through, so give or take, around 600. People he's worked with? David Bowie, Talking Heads, Kanye West (sample), Peter Gabriel, etc. ELP was actually listed several times too.

Try Tony Levin and Bill Bruford you will see a similar story. Adrian Belew and Mel Collins will be in the hundreds too, I would guess.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 19:44pm

One other thing. The intro paragraph to Fripp's entry on Allmusic states: "Experimental guitar virtuoso who pushed rock boundaries with King Crimson and later became an electronic and avant-garde innovator."

That tracks the Rockhall criteria rather remarkably, doesn't it? Innovation. Influence. Musical excellence. Skill and style. All there rather nicely in a single sentence. You could say similar things about 4 or 5 other past members of Crimson. Hell, Tony Levin actually helped invent a new instrument that is used fairly regularly now.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 20:06pm

Dezmond,

I only count each name once and I don't count their own group. I came up with about 215 different ones on Robert Fripp. Only a handful of those names are already in the hall. That is a respectable total. I also check for big names too. Some of the artist are missing credits. I had found one that was better but I didn't bookmark it. It is only one thing I look at. You are going to have lower numbers for somebody that doesn't write their own material.

I'm not sure why you don't consider somebody covering or sampling a song as an indicator of influence. Don't you think it says something about an artist when their peers want to work with them. For example Chaka Khan has a lot of credits for vocals on other peoples albums. There are a number of big names and she sings for a variety of styles and genres. To me that shows depth of talent. Steve Winwood Said she was the one everybody wanted to sing with. You don't think that says something about her vocal abilities?

Look at the problem with Yes and Deep Purple getting in. Sometimes you need to get in some of the people that will support an artist first before they will get in.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 20:49pm

Dezmond

It seems King Crimson could use a strong advocate. There are plenty of knowledgeable FRL Regulars and Music lovers like Enig, Philip, Rick, Zuzu yourself etc. That would be excellent if the FRL Regulars could throw support or weight around a particular artist or artists. Suppose through writing and e-mails and other medium. It would be a strong year campaign for King Crimson and Moody Blues or another group. It's something to consider. There was a late push for The Cars. Maybe, that helped them over the top. KING

Posted by KING on Tuesday, 10/20/2015 @ 21:07pm

"I'm not sure why you don't consider somebody covering or sampling a song as an indicator of influence. Don't you think it says something about an artist when their peers want to work with them. For example Chaka Khan has a lot of credits for vocals on other peoples albums. There are a number of big names and she sings for a variety of styles and genres. To me that shows depth of talent. Steve Winwood Said she was the one everybody wanted to sing with. You don't think that says something about her vocal abilities?"--Zuzu

Zuzu,

We've actually had this discussion before, and I dare say this is not the last time we'll have this conversation, either.

Covering and sampling CAN be an indicator of influence, but you have to be very careful when gauging that level of influence. It really has to be multiple artists and multiple songs. A song could be covered just because it's a huge smash and someone else wants to cash in on it with their take, which was an extremely common thing to do pre-Rock era. It could also be to have a song people know for album filler, which was an extremely common practice during the 60's. A song could be sample because it's got a great beat, hook, or moment in a song that makes a great loop to a song (classic example: the Winstons' "Amen, Brother")

Also, there's a difference between liking a song and liking an artist. Recent, personal example, I was browsing around on YouTube and came across Europop artist, Axelle Red. I was hooked by the first song I encountered, "Kennedy Boulevard"; however, looking for more songs, I was disappointed by the selection of other songs by her--bad ballads that were vastly different. Now that's not a perfect analogy, but just because you like one song by the artist doesn't mean you like the artist as a whole, nor find yourself influenced by them.

So, while you are correct in saying covering and sampling can be indicators of influence, they're not the most reliable indicators.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 00:22am

King Crimson's debut album, "In The Court Of The Crimson King" was a major influence on many nascent progressive rock bands. However, "Days Of Future Passed" by The Moody Blues was even more ubiquitous.

If King Crimson does happen to garner a nomination for Rock & Roll Induction, I will definitely support them.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 02:35am

I am so glad you chimed in Enig. I really don't know King Crimson enough. I know ELP very well. I would simply say that since those running the Hall know less about Prog than any of us chatting they wouldn't be smart enough for King Crimson right Now. Although I will add that Enig is far smarter on King Crimson than me.

From now on as I said I predict one Prog artist a year. I will stick with the Moody Blues. I thought it was an interesting point that in other genres the Hall has sometimes gone for artists with Little or No Sales like DR John and Tom Waits. However, When it comes to Prog the few that have gone in are the Most Popular. Genesis and Rush for instance. I don't see a whole bunch of Prog fans joining the Committee so Unfortunately that's How it goes. Yes seem to be next. I hope so personally.

I just want to Clarify I make predictions not what the Hall should do. In other Genres my Predictions can prove right. Singer/Songwriters and R&B. I will only predict one per year Now as a Nominee.

Posted by Ben on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 05:33am

Ben, I think that the Commodores might not get in except as sidemen behind a Lionel Richie induction.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10.19.15 @ 10:56am

Now you are talking crazy!!! The Commodores will be nominated and inducted in the main performers category and Lionel Ritchie will be included in the induction as a Commodore. I'm sure Questlove will push for them eventually. The Commodores are like Genesis, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Earth, Wind & Fire. The Commodores are not like The Meters and the J.B.'s.

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 09:46am

Roy,

You hit it on the Button. I was looking to discuss another Genre right Now. Excellent new Topic. In their Time The Commodores were more than Sideman. Sorry to disagree Zuzu. The Hall wouldn't just go by How they are looked on Now. I am not a big fan of the Commodores. I like a few songs. The fact is every year The Hall Nominates R&B choices. Questlove would push for them. Brick House is my Fav.

The Commodores seem like a logical choice in R&B. They are not like the Meters and JBs. So if those can get nominated then surely these guys. I may lean much more to Rock but it don't mean I won't predict R&B. I made the mistake of Predicting too Many White acts this year. So How about Commodores, Meters and War next Year. I don't want to dwell on 2017. Again I'll stick with this Year.

Posted by Ben on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 10:49am

I think the FRL voters have the 5 inductees right:
NWA
NIN
Chicago
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson

I think if we get a #6 it will be a mercy entry for Chic. Of course, they could back door the J.B.s in another category.

Posted by Classic Rock on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 11:05am

Ben,

I'm not saying I think they should do this. I saying I think they may try to do it like several think they are going to do with Chaka Khan and Steve Miller.

On one hand you have Lionel Richie's solo work eclipsing the Commodores by a very large scale. As a solo artist Lionel Richie is recognized as a performer, songwriter and producer. Lionel Richie is a songwriter in the true sense. Artist not only covered his songs, they actually went up to him and asked him to write a song specifically for them.

On the other hand Brick House might help the Commodores buck the trend. That song was an anthem.

Whether the Commodores get in or not, will not make a difference on any question of Lionel Richie getting in as a solo artist.


Roy, Cubs are 0-3 against the Mets. They need to win the next 4 games to play in the World Series.

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 12:22pm

On this small issue I think the Hall will try the Commodores first. If that doesn't work they'll try Lionel Richie solo. I don't like Lionel Richie but this is not about me. As you said what they tried with Rufus

Posted by Ben on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 18:55pm

I personally think that The Commodores should be inducted as a GROUP....Not Lionel Richie solo.
It was the Commodores that MADE Lionel Richie...not the other way around. Seeing as how 2 of their biggest, most well remembered signature hits, "BRICK HOUSE" and the Grammy-winning "NIGHT SHIFT" weren't even led by Lionel Richie, but by the group's OTHER lead singer, Walter "Clyde" Orange...that kinda kills the idea of Richie getting in alone.
Besides,Lionel Richie changed his style drastically after he left the Commodores to that of a Pop crooner , with very little R&B or Funk leanings... he went almost all Pop...so much so, in fact, that he was given the moniker "The Black Barry Manilow".
...Is Barry Manilow in the Hall ?
(see my point ?)
Since all of the guys wrote big hits, several of which, like "Machine Gun" ,"Slippery When Wet",and "Lady (You Bring Me Up)" weren't even WRITTEN by Richie, it makes no sense to simply induct him solo...and leave out William King, Tommy Mc Cleary, Walter "Clyde" Orange, Ron LaPread , and the late Milan Williams...since ALL OF THEM contributed in a BIG way, to the group's success .
The Commodores were always a GROUP effort.
...as a GROUP is how they should be inducted.

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10/21/2015 @ 20:43pm

Bill G.

I do see your point. I already said they would try the Commodores first, I didn't stop to think about just How Pop Lionel Richie is. I don't like Lionel Richie. So that would please me personally. That's why I must Have said Commodores as a group. I'm planning on a bunch of predictions of R&b next year. It will make up for this year. I only predicted 1 or 2. I was focuses on other genres a lot.

There will be plenty of Rock Nominated I figure but a bunch of R&B. The only thing is to get the Chic thing over with.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 05:07am

I would prefer Commodores to go in, rather than Lionel Ritchie solo. This from a person who saw Mr. Ritchie last year at Bonnaroo & was blown away by his set (one of the top 4 I saw that weekend).

I will say he's a hell of a lot better than Barry Manilow.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 07:11am

I couldn't agree More. The Commodores are very feasible as a Nominee. As soon as next Year. Perhaps the Hall is waiting for the Chic thing to be done. Lionel Richie not as likely as due him being so Pop. My Very Pop girlfriend loves both Barry Manilow and Mr. Richie solo.

I know Michael Jackson and Madonna both went in. Those are Pop Icons that worked with Rock Musicians. That as far as I know is not as evident with Mr. Richie. I have not checked his Credits. I wasn't planning to. He did I suppose but not too Much.

Commodores is more Clearly R&B than Mr. Richie. They had a whole bunch of Pop hits but also lots of R&B albums. It's another R&B choice to consider. This comes from a Rock fan such as myself. The Hall does also like R&B. The Commodores are not too shabby.

Posted by Ben on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 08:24am

Interesting fact that I learned in my Black Music History Class in undergrad was that Lionel Richie got his start in Country Music before joining The Commodores. Would explain Mr. Richie's solo career being less R&B than The Commodores.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 09:40am

Still, Three Times a Lady and Easy were done by the Commodores. All Night Long Was Recorded by Lionel Richie. Endless Love was a duet done by Lionel Richie and Diane Ross.

They also tried to tag Melanie as the female Barry Manilow. Well they were also trying to push her into doing a Barry Manilow song. She didn't budge. Neither sounds anything like Barry Manilow.

Another good place for info on Lionel Richie is his entry in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 10:48am

http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/2215/Heywhat-about-The-COMMODORES
*****The COMMODORES*****
For more info on THE COMMODORES, check out my blog on them on Charles Crossley's "Top of The Charts Forum on the above link .

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10/22/2015 @ 14:13pm

So now I return to chats of this Year. I feel the Cars, Chicago and Yes stand the best chance. IT's a Matter of Votes. I love Deep Purple but as Zuzu often points out How doe the General Public and in fact the Voters feel about them? When You say the Voters do you also mean the Voters. You probably are since some Voters are people like Van Morrison and Martha Reeves. I also believe Bill Clinton is a Voter.

I'm taking into account the R&B thing this year. Janet Jackson for instance seems like a really good Bet and I don't think her Nipplegate makes a difference. There is plenty of Rock Stars in that had controversy. There is a long list. I have mentioned that the Chic thing may be solved this year. I know there is sooo much Classic Rock Nominees However even though I don't like Chic that makes no difference.

Clearly I like Steve Miller sooo much more than Chic. I love Steve Miller. There has been this push for Chic so this may be their year. If Chic don't go in They could be hanging around Nom Lists for Years more. I feel Chic will go in.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/23/2015 @ 05:45am

I'm impressed with the FRL voting thus far and actually think the current top 5 are a solid indicator of our 2016 inductees.

Janet Jackson
NWA
Chicago
Deep Purple
Nine Inch Nails

If there's a sixth - I'm hoping for The Smiths. But it may be Yes or Cheap Trick.

Posted by Mike on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 04:02am

These are the artists from the list of Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame nominees who I have voted for and who I feel absolutely deserve to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame:

1. Yes

2. Chicago

3. The Spinners

4. Deep Purple

5. The Cars

Other artists from the list who I think may be possibly inducted:

6. Steve Miller

7. Chic

8. Los Lobos

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 07:34am

Hey Enig,

I'm thinking that Deep Purple and the Spinners may fall short as deserved as they may be in their genres. I do think Chic will be inducted. I am not a Fan at all! It's just that they have the record for being Nominated.

I thought the Hall would give Up on Chic. Apparently Not. So the solution is Induct them even though I don't like them at all! I think the Hall has been trying for a Disco follow Up to Donna Summer since she went in.

Steve Miller is somewhere in the Middle. I love Steve Miller but they may fall short. Only 6 get inducted as far as I can tell.

No worries for the Cars, Chicago and Yes. They seem to be the strongest for Rock this year

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 13:38pm

Ben, why do you keep repeating that you don't like Chic? You mention this quite often but hardly elaborate about why you dislike them. Chic, love them or hate them, are a hugely influential act not only on Disco but popular music of the last 30+ years. I think you might be discounting Steve Miller a bit, I think he has the populist support from voters (akin to someone like Hall & Oates from a few years ago): too many hits to be ignored. I don't think the Cars are a shoe-in per-say especially with the competition this year (and I really like the Cars). It's good to see the Rock Hall embrace New Wave bands like the Cars too. Cheap Trick could be a dark-horse pick for this year but it depends on much support they generate. I'm pulling for them to get in this year.

Janet Jackson, Chicago and Yes seem like locks as of this moment. The other 3 spots could go either way. I think Chic will finally pull through, mainly because there are so many classic rock acts nominated this year that some of them are bound to cancel one another out (e.g., Deep Purple, The Cars). I still don't know if NWA will have enough support from the voters (even with that biopic, but if I'm a betting man I'd say they'll get in this year), and the same goes for Nine Inch Nails (who should have already been inducted last year).

Posted by Nick on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 14:22pm

I think Deep Purple will be inducted. Recent nominees and inductees over the last decade KISS, Rush, Heart, Metallica,Black Sabbath, Heart etc should throw some votes to Deep Purple. It also helps Deep Purple's cause that they continue to play shows and others members like Coverdale went on to have success with Whitesnake. Deep Purple is noted for Smoke On The Water but they had other classic songs Burn, Hush, Woman Of Tokyo, Space Truckin', Highway Star etc. It seems like Chicago that this is Deep Purple's Time. A Deep Purple induction would also help the logjam of hard rock/heavy metal bands such as Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, and Bon Jovi & Def Leppard. I can see Motley Crue inducted down the road. KING

Posted by KING on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 16:10pm

It's Hard to Say with the Steve Miller. They have a lot of hits. I love them all and love some of their Albums. Truthfully Steve Miller should have been in already. I would always Vote for Steve Miller. I'm just not totally sure enough Voters will agree. There are some that surely will Vote for them. They fall in the middle on chances.

I'm most sure about Cars, Chicago and Yes. I'm certainly including Janet Jackson in this. Nick we do agree on your 3 Locks. Chicago, Janet Jackson and Yes. I think the Cars will come through in support of New Wave. I'll drop the the Chic thing after this. Chic rubbed me the wrong way back in 79. I like other R&b like Earth Wind & Fire and War much more. I wasn't into the disco thing. However, I think since it's not about me Chic will be Inducted based on 10 nominations.

Nile Rogers in the Music Excellence category would work much better for me. He produced a David Bowie album and all sorts of other things. It's the fact that it's Chic as a group. Nile Rogers is the Influential one.

In any Case I don't think it will be an Classic Rock class. I'd love that.

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 16:37pm

Ben, a couple of things that Steve Miller has going for him and I think he has a better chance than you think.

A lot of his songs have been sampled. I've read that the samplings are more current.

Before starting his band, Steve Miller did spend time in the blues community in Chicago. I haven't looked into who has worked with but I am sure there are some blues artist that are in the hall that would vote for him.


Without knowing why the repeat nominees didn't get enough votes to be inducted - I don't think any of these artist could be a considered a lock.


My main reason for thinking that Chicago is a lock is that I know of several artist that they have worked with either as individuals or as a band that have been inducted. There is also a possibility of more artist that I have read only generalities about that members of Chicago have worked with. Some of these artist may have some that have been inducted.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 18:09pm

I personally feel that Chicago and Janet Jackson are the only real locks at this point. No telling with the others.

If I was casting a ballot, I would not vote for Steve Miller. He should be nominated with the Steve Miller BAND. So annoying when they do that. I was half expecting/hoping they'd change it like they did with SRV, but so far it doesn't look like it.

Posted by dmg on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 18:15pm

Nile Rodgers is maybe the most influential member of Chic, but other members were also widely respected. Bernard Edwards was highly praised as a bass player. Edwards was the man behind the bassline of Good Times, quite possibly the greatest thing Chic has given to mankind. Ta dun, dun dun, ta dun dundundun I say a hip, hop, the hippie the hippie hiphop, you don't stop and another one gone, another one gone, another one bites the dust.

Edwards was an important producer as well, both in cooperation with Rodgers and by himself. Who, for instance, produced Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love or Duran Duran's A View to a Kill?

Edwards was also the producer and manager of The Power Station, which included not only Palmer and members of Duran Duran, but also Chic drummer Tony Thompson. Thompson's drum work is widely respected. He not only drummed on many of Rodgers' and Edwards'productions, but he also drummed with Led Zeppelin on Live Aid and was asked to go on a tour with them the next year, if not for a car accident. They don't just ask any drummer to replace John Bonham.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 18:41pm

Well I will drop Chic very Soon. In the Case of Chic You do have to sell me personally but not as a Prediction. I firmly believe that Chic will be inducted for the Very reasons you say. My personal taste leads me to respect Nile Rodgers. I don't even have enough knowledge of the others.

Now since I don't feel the Class will be all Classic Rock simply because it never is Logic dictates that a longtime Nominee such as Chic will get in. I think this is the Year for Chic. I just wanted it to be clear that I am not a fan. I can see Chic getting the Votes.

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 21:00pm

So I think this is the year for Chic because although I don't agree with it really The Hall will recognize the Influence. Janet Jackson is a real lock. More than Chic. There is also Chaka Khan. Now Chaka may be the least likely. If she don't get in then I say Steve Miller gets a spot. Nonetheless to reiterate. Here is my List of Predictions for 2016. Half Rock and half R&B.

The Cars
Chic
Chicago
Janet Jackson
Chaka Khan
Yes

It's been awhile since I posted the list. So there it is Now. It's a fair list with Half Rock and Half R&B. That's how certain Rock nominees get shut out.

My Dream list is this.
The Cars
Chicago
Deep Purple
Steve Miller
The Spinners
Yes

I got to admit I do have a sore spot for The Spinners. I like a bunch of tunes and represent old Soul. All Classic Rock would be great too. In either list it's All Classic in one way or another

Posted by Ben on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 21:21pm

Ben,

I really like your Dream inductees list. By the way, I am certainly quite okay with Chaka Khan's induction as well.

Although, I happen to prefer these artists the most:

Yes
Deep Purple
Chicago
The Spinners
The Cars
Steve Miller

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 23:30pm

BEN
Interesting list. I think Chicago & Deep Purple will be inducted. Both are ranked as 2 of the biggest snubs right now and I think it's their time. That leaves 4 spots. Steve Miller is interesting with his 50 year longevity and had his SF 60's music plus his blues stay in Chicago. Has a good chance in his 70's now. Janet Jackson looks like a good headliner and has an impressive string of hits Black Cat, Rhythm Nation, Nasty Boys, That's The Way Love Goes. Janet turns 50 in May so that would be a nice present. Maybe, they can blow some balloons and give her some gifts. That leaves Enig's Prog band YES. The Spinners would be my last guess. They have earned this honor and 1 original left. It would be smart to do it now. So my 6 2015 Induction 1.Chicago 2.Deep Purple 3.Janet Jackson 4.Steve Miller 5.The Spinners 6.YES. This would be a strong class and open some logjams in the heavy metal hard rock & Prog genres. KING

Posted by KING on Saturday, 10/24/2015 @ 23:40pm

I have never set foot in New York City, nor have I taken a "proper" vacation in more than 27 years. However, I might be inclined to do so if Yes, Deep Purple and Chicago are inducted next year.

Even though, I had supported Rush's induction for more than 15 years prior to their actual induction, I did not attend that particular ceremony. I think that this illustrates just how important Yes's induction is!

Posted by Enigmaticus on Sunday, 10/25/2015 @ 09:59am

Enig,

I think if Yes are Inducted and do think They will be it will be a Step in the right direction for bands that have been snubbed a long time and for Prog bands of course. Chicago has been snubbed a long time as well.

The Hall is due for a Prog addition. The last one was Rush. The irony is Yes came first. I think it's a matter of Popularity. That's why. In other genres the Hall goes for some lesser known artists that never had much Sales. It seems to me at least right now the Hall for Prog is going for the most popular ones. Perhaps that will change over time.

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 10/25/2015 @ 19:15pm

Moody Blues & Zombies should be a no brainer...so apparently there is some political crap going on here that totally discredits the so-called R&R Hall of Fame. These are bands with proven fan bases that were heavily listen to when Rock was young...unlike some of the garbage they try to pass off as Rock today. Get it Right...or you're painting yourselves as nothing but a joke.

Posted by Terry Huffhines on Sunday, 10/25/2015 @ 20:26pm

As we see the Hall is finally catching up on Snubs. Chicago and Yes have an incredibly Good chance. Zuzu, You have a good point about Steve Miller. The earliest album of his I know is Brave New World. The Notable track is Space Cowboy. It came out in 1969. I just wanted you to know my knowledge of Steve Miller goes back before his famous 70s stuff. Now if I'm wrong about 3 R&B choices then Steve Miller has a good chance.

Perhaps Chaka Khan will fall short for Votes. I'm predicting her. If she falls short that may put Steve Miller in. It's because of my prediction of half Classic Rock and Half Classic R&B that I left Steve Miller out. This issued 6 Inductees.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/26/2015 @ 05:42am

Ben,

I doubt that 3 r&b acts will get enough votes. At some point they will have to shift and start to include some of the big snubs in country and folk. So for a while I think you are going to be seeing less than half r&b artist. I also feel that maybe 6 or 7 artist will be inducted this year. So maybe you will have the 3 r&b acts that you have been predicting. Greg Harris has said in interviews that there might be more than than five if the numbers are close.

I think they may go with a higher number because I don't think that there are as many locks as some people think.

I would put Steve Miller ahead of Yes. I don't think this has anything to do with being anti-prog. I think it has more to do with the huge glaring snubs of North American artist from the 70s. You have 2 glaring Canadian snubs as well as American.

Right now I wouldn't venture to guess who will be inducted. I am just going to stick with my dream list because I think everybody is going to be surprised.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/26/2015 @ 06:34am

Zuzu,

In my Dream Class I have both Steve Miller and Yes at the Same time. Perhaps the real class will fall closer to my Dream Class. I've stayed away from Dream Classes in the past because I like to focus on real predictions. Heck so many here are doing it so might as well.

I will also share that the Spinners are in my Dream class. My Real class predictions has 3 others instead for R&B. Chic and Janet should get the Votes. Chaka Khan is slightly less likely. More chance than the Spinners I think. I just like the Spinners more.

If it's 2 R&B choices then Chic and Janet. Steve Miller could pull through. I will Hold steady with 3 R&b because I think Chic, Janet and Chaka Khan will all come through. Chaka has a bit of support. There are a lot of Rock and R&B Inductees that may Vote for her.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 10/26/2015 @ 07:54am

Ben,

On the rock side I like Chicago, Steve Miller, Los Lobos and NIN and Chaka Khan for r&b. I think everybody is in for a surprise, myself included, this year so you may well be right about 3 r&b acts getting in.


A few tidbits about Steve Miller

Steve Miller's parents were best man and maid of honor at Les Paul and Mary Ford's wedding. They were guests at their home when Steve Miller was little.

Steve Miller jammed with Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf and Buddy Guy


Steve Miller and Peter Cetera connections

Both worked on Amos Galpin's album

Both live in Idaho.

Steve Miller worked with Paul Butterfield

Peter Cetera worked with Paul Butterfield on Dick Campbell's album

Steve Miller worked on John Lee Hooker's album

Kal David jammed with John Lee Hooker (Kal David was in the Exceptions with Peter Cetera)

I can't find anything definitive but I think there is enough connections to the same people that I find it hard to believe that they didn't cross paths in Chicago.

Posted by Zuzu on Monday, 10/26/2015 @ 13:13pm

So I was having a chat at work about the new Rock Hall Nominees. The friend I talked to is a Musician and Music enthusiast. He is about 11 years Younger than me. Chicago he feels is a given like most of us do. I said Cheap Trick may fall short but Yes would win and be Inducted.

The friend feels that Cheap Trick sold albums in the 70s and had extensive MTV airplay. He feels they are more likely than Yes. I say NO. Yes are much more likely than Cheap Trick. Yes sold out arenas all through the 70s. Even TAles from Topographic Oceans sold well. They have been highly respected through the years.

The fact is My friend is Younger so he wouldn't know about their Heyday. He was an 80s kid. He got real into key Classic groups like Floyd and Zep. The Yes fame faded much more. However, Zep and Floyd are both in the Hall. So it's time due for Yes. The prog buzz comes from those my Age and Older. I remember something of their Heyday.

My friend was a bit little in the 80s too. I was not little at all. Cheap Trick had some MTV airplay. I don't think their success is enough to impact. Perhaps there is the Influence. The one thing that could get Cheap Trick in is it's A Steve VAn Zant fav. As I said Sales seem to factor in for Yes. Sales don't often factor in other genres. That could be the Case with Cheap Trick.

My friend also mentioned Deep Purple being key. What my friend don't realize is the Voting Body. Many members of Hard Rock inductees will Vote for Deep Purple. I would Vote for them if allowed. They will lose Votes with the real old artists and other genres. Martha Reeves and Jackson Browne are not as likely to Vote for Deep Purple

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/27/2015 @ 06:11am

Ben,

Unless you have something I don't think it is fair to say that Martha Reeves and Jackson Browne would not likely vote for Deep Purple. Would you expect Johnny Cash to cover a NIN song or Peter Cetera to wear a Bauhaus t-shirt?

Artist do not view music the way we do. They do not see the differences the way we do. They see the art that is there and the creativity. They see the core elements that are there that say this is quality work.

I may not be musically talented but I am well versed in the visual arts. Your core elements may not be the same but will be similar. Somebody may work in a style that is different from me or one that I get into, but that isn't going to stop me from appreciating the hard work that went into what they created.

I think Yes and Deep Purple's problem is that they are too narrow band. Great art is universal. look for signs that the artist creates works that gets the attention of the old guard, contemporaries and up and coming artist. Look for signs that they are noticed by artist outside their sub-genre and genre. This will show that their work is probably more well regarded.

Also look at who their audience is. Is it just young kids? Does it cross generational, gender and cultural lines?

I think it comes down to the problem being that there are other artist that the voting body feels better displays these core elements. I don't think the voting body is looking at good vs bad. I think they are putting artist in a scale and those that have a higher score will get in before others.

It's not about if an artist are deserving - it is about if there are artist that are considered more deserving.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/27/2015 @ 07:51am

Zuzu,

Ok. I take that back. I said less likely anyway not Impossible. I happen to think Bob Dylan could voter for Nine Inch Nails due to his revolutionary attitude in music. Similar to Johnny Cash. It's also who they may support more. Who's to really say.

I take it back because Black Sabbath made it in. Support had to come from other kinds of Inductees. Besides Eventually perhaps Martha Reeves or Jackson Browne may Vote for Deep Purple I've just decided. Just maybe not this year. Chicago I think will get tremendous Votes. There is a lot of strong choices this Year. The Cars I think. Yes has quite a bit of support as well as Steve Miller. I won't give examples of artists anymore.

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 10/27/2015 @ 14:32pm

Ben,

You never know what an artist listens to or appreciates. I found it interesting reading what the members of M & R Rush list in their bio's on their website.

Some artist keep up and others don't. According to Willie Dixon's daughter, she was the one that came across Led Zeppelin's recording of her father's songs. By the time they found out the statue of limitations had expired and they had to wait until Led Zeppelin reissued the album before they could sue.

So you never know. I wouldn't consider it definite unless they say that they are or are not voting for an artist. I only consider working together or mentioning an artist a probable. If they say somebody is an influence I consider that a high probability.

Posted by Zuzu on Tuesday, 10/27/2015 @ 16:19pm

Zuzu,

Moving On. I will say that Cheap Trick and Deep Purple may not get as many Votes from the Voting Body as a whole as some of the others. I won't drop any names. Chicago to me is an real sure thing. They are known and liked all over. They are a Household name. So is Janet Jackson whether we like it or not.

Yes I do think are headed for the Hall. The Hall and the Voters will note that Chris Squire has passed. I do also think that Chic will go in. This is due to the support they have obviously with 10 Noms. I can see quite a bit of the Voters going for them. That leaves 2 spots. I gave my list a couple times. Now while I'm choosing the Cars and Chaka Khan for those 2 spots Steve Miller stands a good chance.

I don't see a lot of Votes for the JBs. I know they are the back up band for James Brown but there are so many real strong Nominees this Year.

Posted by Ben on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 05:51am

Ben,

I know that I am the only one and I am not saying she won't get in, but from some things that I remember and from some things I have read, I don't think she is the lock everybody think she is.

You could be right about Yes and Chris Squire. I feel that JBs should just have been put in as sidemen. Chic obviously has the support of the nom com, but 10 years and not enough votes to get inducted? I feel that Chaka Khan has a stronger chance.

She has about 150 credits listed for other artist on Allmusic. some of them are:

George Benson - Kenny G - Quincy Jones - Robert Palmer - Eric Clapton -Luther Vandros - Chick Corea - Vince Garldi - David Foster - Herbie Hancock - Peter Cetera - Incognito - Tom Jones - De La Soul - Mary J Blige - Etta James - Aaron Neville - BB King - The Average White Band - Joni Mitchell - Rod Stewart - Stephen Bishop - Chicago - Phil Upchurch - Peabo Bryson - Questlove - Shaggy - Barry White - Ray Charles - Prince - Sinbad - Bruce Hornsby - The Manhattan Transfer - New Edition - The Gap Band - Christian McBride - Dionne Warwick

A few of the people she has worked with have votes.

:)
I was thinking that the Cubs loosing may actually work out better for Steve Goodman. I was thinking I'd start telling my all the Cubbies I knew that their curse won't be lifted until they get Steve Goodman into the hall. I would say it was a total funny but those Cubbies take their curses seriously. ;)

Posted by Zuzu on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 19:50pm

It’s both shocking and quite fascinating that Eddie Truck is now on the Rock Hall nominating Committee. I guess now he can shut up about the Rock Hall being unfair when he's a voter/nominating member . Perhaps Morello and him can get harder rock acts on the ballot. The sky's the limit here. In the video FRL posted of Truck’s announcement, he mentioned that he’s definitely voting for Deep Purple and Cheap Trick. He’ll probably lean to harder rock acts and probably 1970s-1980s artists. I think the other 3 votes are between the following: Yes, Nine Inch Nails, The Cars, Steve Miller, The Smiths. I doubt he’d vote for any soul/R&B (even if they are highly highly).

Zuzu, the Rock Hall must induct a woman each year or else they’ll be called sexist by critics and fans. Janet Jackson is the safe bet, especially when the ceremony takes place in NYC and she would easily be the headliner of that crop of nominees. Chaka Khan might have a chance, but I doubt she can be in the top 6 this year given the competition is so competitive.

Posted by Nick on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 23:02pm

^ "Highly Worthy"

Posted by Nick on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 23:16pm

Nick - unless I'm mistaken, it says Trunk is a voter, not on the nominating committee.

Posted by DC on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 23:16pm

Maybe that's right and I misheard it. Either way this is big news, especially for Rock Hall followers given Truck's constant criticisms of the organization.

Posted by Nick on Wednesday, 10/28/2015 @ 23:39pm

My initial reaction to Trunk becoming a voter was very negative, but I'm hearing that others have been added as well. I'm a big advocate for reforming the voting committee and see two possibilities.

If they're also adding people who understand the Alt nominees and where they fit in, more people who are knowledgeable about the post-70s music landscape and people who are more knowledgeable about Brit/European nominees, someone like Trunk who advocates for overlooked 70s rock acts could be a valuable piece of an overhaul. (There's also the problem of some very worthy pre-Beatles acts still sitting out there, but that's more of a NomComm issue right now.)

If they're just adding the king of the rockists and others who think like him the RRHoF is looking at trading one problem for another.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 01:33am

Eddie Trunk's Ballot

01. Yes
02. Chicago
03. The Cars
04. Cheap Trick
05. Deep Purple

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 06:12am

Re: Eddie Trunk, I especially care for metal, and I don't especially like him, but I can see the Rock Hall's logic in putting him on the Voting Committee.

As Lyndon Johnson once put it, with characteristic crudity, better to have someone inside your tent pissing out, than outside pissing in.

Posted by PopeCharming on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 09:42am

^
"DON'T especially care for metal."

Posted by PopeCharming on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 09:43am

Nick,

In this woman's opinion Janet Jackson makes them look like slobbering, drooling sexist who voted for her for her appeal rather than her talent. I've said it before and I will say it again, it is not about having more women in the hall it is about having a voice in who goes in to the hall. It is about having our opinions respected. Nominating Janet Jackson shows a lot of disrespect for women.

Read what I said again. I did not say she was not going to get enough votes. I said that her getting in was not a sure thing. I am basing this on the negativity that is out there related to her and her family. It is about what her brother was accused of and how the family handled it. It is about the rights to the Beatles' songs that the family is fighting Sir Paul on. It is about tidbits I have come across that think she is not the one to have written the songs she was given credit for. There may be or may not be enough votes for her to get in.

Getting a headliner may be the motives of the nom com but I doubt very much that the voting body is going to look at that as criteria to vote for her. It is going to be more about did her family spend enough money to buy her way in.

I was listing some of the major names for Chaka Khan more for a comparison to Chic. But if you want you can compare Janet Jackson's credits to Chaka Khan's credits go ahead. Chic really does not have many credits. Niles Rodgers does have a lot of credits but most of his credits are as a producer or composer. Maybe the nom com should have inducted Niles Rodgers as a writer or producer rather than nominating Chic for 10 years in a row. There has to be a reason they are not getting the votes. Maybe Niles Rodgers could even been put up as a solo nominee but I still think he would be better inducted as a composer or producer.

Eddie Trunk was given a vote to just shut him up. I doubt it will work. They need to have more female opinion and people with an understanding of folk and country's influence on rock during the 60s, 70s and 80s. They need to fill gaps and not jump ahead and leave more gaps.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 10:49am

Zuzu,
I don't think you get it: Janet Jackson will get inducted this year no matter what. Besides Chicago, she is the next best bet this year. It will be in NYC and they need a headliner. Who cares about the accusations against her brother (after all, he DID get inducted TWICE with the Jackson 5 and a solo artist, and this was AFTER he was first accused of those crimes). So you're idea that her chances are hurt based on her famous family seems unjustly and discredits her major influence on music since the late 80s. Plus she is probably the most famous and recognizable name on this year's ballot. I think you're taking this a little personally (for whatever reason) and believe me the Rock Hall cannot go a year without inducting a female act unless they want to be called a sexist institution (which in some ways they are). Plus Jackson is one of the most talented female performers of the last 30 years. It is rather insulting to suggest that she would have to "buy her way in" to get inducted to Rock Hall. Personally I think this is one of the biggest criticisms that the Rock Hall gets almost every year: they don't nominate or induct enough women in the Rock Hall. There are a ton of deserving female candidates on the outside looking in. In the case of Chaka Khan, yeah she should probably be in before Janet Jackson but this only shows the Rock Hall dropping the ball on worthy soul/female performers. I strongly disagree with why Chic isn't inducted thou: it's the Disco stigma that Rodgers and Company cannot shake off. No matter how many times the Committee nominates Chic, there will always be a segment of voters who refuse to vote for them based on their association with Disco. At least we agree about Eddie Trunk, someone who I don't like and believe has a mentality that seems too rockist for me. I do agree that Deep Purple and Cheap Trick should be inducted (and maybe that's it with my agreement with Trunk).

Posted by Nick on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 11:44am

Nick,

What do you see that guaranties her enough votes to get inducted? Who is she most recognizable with? Are you talking about the perspective of somebody that is too young to remember a time when there was no Janet Jackson? I am not only old enough to remember a time before Janet Jackson was in the public eye, I am also old enough to remember a time before Janet Jackson even existed. It gives you a different perspective.

For those of us that are older and are into rock, Janet Jackson is not the biggest thing on this year's list. Chicago is and the idea of Peter Cetera performing again with Chicago after about 30 years is bigger than anything that Janet Jackson could come up with. That includes any booby popping.

It's not that I don't get your perspective - It is that I can see things that I think you are missing. Are you familiar with the hoopla regarding the rights to the Beatles' songs and the falling out that Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson had? In season 4 of the Voice they were trying to push a Michael Jackson sub theme. A week after she performed a Michael Jackson song Judith Hill (she worked with Michael Jackson for a tour that was cancelled due to his death) was eliminated.

Nick talented in what way according to who? According to the media who love to hype her? I have seen criticism for her vocals and there are questions about whether she actually should have received credit for writing songs.

Look at Allmusic credits for both Janet Jackson and Chaka Khan. Notice that Chaka Khan has worked with a wide range artist in both style and era. Chaka Khan has also worked with more artist that have votes. Sure it is possible that she can get nominated. I just don't think that it is a lock. The nom com may think it terms of headliner but why would the voting body think in those terms? The voting body does not always give the nom com what they want.

Lets say you had a nom com comprised of at least 1/3 women most of whom would be over 50 - do you really think Janet Jackson would have even been nominated?

Actually soul female performers are very well represented until you get to the end of the 70s. The shortcomings for females are in country and folk and rock. Patsy Cline - Joan Baez - Melanie - Judy Collins - Pat Benatar If it wasn't for my dislike for double dips when so many deserving are overlooked I would also include Stevie Nicks.

Nick do some googling on the Jackson Family. They are really trying to push the accusations against Michael out of the public mind. Personally I think nipplegate was an intentional distraction from the lawsuits against her brother's estate concerning molestation. I realize that these kinds of things are easily blown off by the younger generation but keep in mind the younger generation does not dominate the voting body. It is the older generation that does and to a lot of people that are older these kinds of things do matter. This I would consider buying votes or at least making her look better. Read about what is going on with the rights to the Beatles songs then let me know what you think.

I think Chaka Khan is well regarded by her peers and is very deserving of being inducted. I do not feel the same way about Janet Jackson. I am not even sure how respected she is by her peers. I feel that you assume that just because younger artist like her that means the older artist do to. I feel that may not entirely be the case - at least not as many as I feel you think she is worthy.

Disco may be part of the problem with Chic but that may also be in part to later disco not being viewed as being as high quality as earlier disco. Some of what Earth Wind and Fire performed was considered disco and they are in. I still think Niles Rodgers has a lot more as an individual that the group Chic.

Eddie Trunk is a sexist. All of those shock jocks and their armies of followers are. Armies are little pervs with Peter Pan Syndrome. For the record 9 - 12 year old girls were called teeny boppers and boys of the same age were called little pervs. I think that there are more important artist from the 70s than the ones he is pushing. I can't forget he pushed for Kiss. In the 70s they were considered too juvenile to be good. This is like saying Picasso got into art because his mom gave him paint by number sets so now paint by number pieces should be put into art museums. There is influence and there is influence.

Posted by Zuzu on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 14:59pm

Nick - You make some great points. Janet Jackson is the biggest star nominated in this year and probably the biggest lock for induction.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 15:34pm

Chaka Khan is one of my favorite artists. If she didm't get voted in several years ago with Rufus then it is what it is.

Chicago is overrated. Boo hoo syrypy bullshit.

Nine Inch Nails, Yes, NWA, Deep Purple and Janet Jackson will be our 2016 class.

Posted by Marissa on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 16:57pm

Marissa - That would be a great class, even though I am a fan of Chicago's early work.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 17:26pm

About the 2016 Nominees, Marissa wrote:

Chicago is overrated. Boo hoo syrypy bullshit.

Go listen to The Chicago Transit Authority through Chicago 13, and then go listen to Chicago XXX, XXXII, XXXVI.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 10/29/2015 @ 19:46pm

Zuzu,
I don’t wanna get into a pissing contest with you but give me a break if you don’t believe Janet Jackson is an influential artist. Aaliyah, Beyonce, Britney Spears, and Rihanna (and a slew of others) are some of the obvious artists influenced by Jackson. Also, Jackson's music videos were ground-breaking and memorable for their time, especially Rhythm Nation comes to mind. Besides Madonna, Jackson is arguably the other most successful and commercially popular female performer from the late 1980s to the early 2000s. Just look at the Rhythm Nation album, IMO her best album and the one that best incapsulates her legacy as a performer.

I still don’t understand for the life of me what Michael and her family has to do with her NOT getting a Rock Hall induction. You’re the only one who brings this up and she wasn’t even directly involved with Michael’s accusations. Just because you don’t like her, doesn’t mean you can dismiss her legacy. If crimes and “bad behavior” was ever a factor, then many HOF-ers would have never been considered. The Jackson family and their problems has NOTHING to do with an interference for Jackson’s potential induction. If anything, Janet has tried to separate himself from her family and became a global superstar on her own terms. She is very talented, haven’t you seen any of her concerts or performances? She is a fantastic live performer.

Thank you Gassman for your support and kind words.

An Entire Wikipedia Page is devoted to Jackson’s Influence and Legacy as a Performer (I rest my case):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_influenced_by_Janet_Jackson

Posted by Nick on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 00:11am

Zuzu: I'm not going to fight with you here either (and Nick has made great points already), but I have to ask: what did Judith Hill getting eliminated have to do with Janet Jackson's prospects?

That season of The Voice was country music on parade, and the winner of the season (Danielle Bradbury) sang exactly one non-country song (in the Battle round) in her entire run. The final six consisted of four country artists (or close to it). Keep in mind that until the final six became five, Blake Sheldon had a full team, and all three were country acts who, during the live performances, sang nothing but country songs and utterly prospered from it.

Was it the public being angry at Michael and his family? Or was it the public being all for country music that virtually every other artist had no chance to win?

Posted by SotN on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 04:09am

Ok. I just want to say I'm predicting both Janet Jackson and Chaka Khan for Induction. I have said that I don't feel the Class will be all Classic Rock. So logically if it's not I think since there is so many Classic artists of both Rock and R&B it will be half and half. Janet Jackson and Chaka Khan both make sense.

I am now going to change the subject to Chicago. Their albums in the 70s are great and have a High quality. Some fine albums. They were weaker in the 80s with their albums Pop hits. How is their newer albums? Chicago XXX and XXXI. Any other newer ones. 1989 my last memory of Chicago was some time ago. They were Very much Pop at that time. Not my cup of tea at all. 1989 was some time ago. I heard they went back to their earlier quality and simply Updated it for the Millenium. THat sounds good. This is where You Zuzu or Roy can respond.

Another Choice of mine Yes has done well with newer albums. I know several. I own lots of their Classic stuff like Close to the Edge. I own a whole bunch of theirs. I also own Talk and heard about the LAdder.

Newer Albums indicate an artist continuing which also shows strength. I personally don't think it matters. It helps perhaps. I was curious about the newer Chicago. The Cars even came back I know. I still feel these 3 are the strongest for Rock this year.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 04:58am

How is their newer albums? Chicago XXX and XXXI.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10.30.15 @ 04:58am

That's Chicago XXX, XXXII, XXXVI (30, 32, 36).

XXXII: Stone of Sisyphus | XXXVI: NOW

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 07:24am

Nick,

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I think it may be a generational thing. That is probably why you do not understand where I am coming from. I don't think you got what I had been saying about a message with the polls either. I think people in their 40's are mixed and once you get to people over 50 you will have a different attitude for the most part.

How many people on here are over 50? That probably has a lot to do with why I am the only one saying anything. Look at the reaction. How many people are willing to deal with that? She may have one of the highest total of yes votes but she also has one of the highest number of no votes.

I never said she had no influence. I think her level of influence has been inflated and overstated. Look at those allmusic credits for all three (Janet Jackson, Chaka Khan and Niles Rodgers). Notice the huge difference between Janet Jackson and the other two. There is practically no depth in comparison. The artist that Chaka Khan and Niles Rodgers have worked with spans generations and genres. Chak Khan has worked with some of the same younger artist but she has also worked with some of the old guard like BB King, Etta James, Chick Corea, Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood. Now out of all the people that say they were influenced by her, how many of them mention anything other than dance. Dance does not rate very well with the nom com. Chubby Checker started a dance craze with the Twist in the early 60s that lasted for three years and he hasn't even been nominated.


ScotN,

Judith Hill's numbers dropped the week she did the Michael Jackson song. She went low enough the next week to not make the cut.

The Swon Brothers were not solid country. They were country - rock - folk fusion. They did songs by: The Eagles, Tom Petty, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Kenny Loggins and Bob Seger performed with them in the finals. There did also add some country songs. So no, Blake Shelton's team was not solid Country.


Ben,

I stopped following Chicago after Peter Cetera left. I'm Southside Polish - what can I say. I can not stand how the kid sounds and I am not happy with how they treated Danny. Without Peter, Danny and Terry they could never get back to their earlier level of quality. They also can't get back the Chicago (the city) sound. I have heard that Danny's band California Transit Authority was better. Roy gets into the later stuff but this is where we have very different opinions.

Posted by Zuzu on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 10:25am

FRL Regulars & RRHOF Nominees Guessers.

Found The Cars Greatest Hits in the bargain bin in a store and could not resist the purchase. Since The Cars are nominated for 2015 RRHOF, it makes sense to take a listen and give it an honest opinion. I would highlight 3 songs. 1.Just What I Needed 2.Tonight She Comes 3.Shake It Up. Enjoyed these 3 the best. Would give them 10/10 A+ grades.

Just some thoughts:1. Think Elliot Easton underrated guitar player. He let's loose on Shake It Up and other hits. Wish he shined more. 2.Gravitate to the Ben Orr songs more. Very good voice. Like Just What I Needed and the ballad Drive. 3.Prefer the more guitar driven tracks. Like the synthesizer in many of the songs but after awhile gets overused. 4.The Cars Greatest Hits shows a strong array of The Cars best songs. You probably could induct The Cars on the basis of the 1st album but they did make other quality album. I think Heartbeat City had some good hits too. Drive and Magic and You Might Think. 5.I would give The Cars Greatest Hits an A grade. They are deserving of RRHOF induction. KING

Posted by KING on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 16:30pm

King,

I agree with everything you said about the Cars. You seem to have experience with the Cars. I am into hundreds of Classic artists, I would say that the Cars are certainly my Time. I was there as a teenager when the Cars released their first album. I bought a bunch in the Original days of Vinyl. They certainly made other quality albums. Candy O and Panorama are good. Heartbeat City had some good hits and some good Deep Cuts too. It's Not the Night is a good one. Guitar driven.

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 17:59pm

FRL Regulars and Music Fans.

I already suggested my 6 Inductees for this year's cycle. 1.Chicago 2.Deep Purple 3.Janet Jackson 4.Steve Miller 5.The Spinners 6. YES

Time for the Eraser Test! Could you tell the history of rock and roll if these bands never existed? Here's 12 bands future nominees or random groups. Would they pass the Eraser Test?
1.Huey Lewis & The News 2.Culture Club 3.George Michael 4.Scorpions 5.Jewel 6.Journey 7.The Escape Club 8.Bad Company 9.LL Cool J 10.America 11.Bryan Adams 12.The Guess Who
See who passes your test. KING

Posted by KING on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 19:15pm

Off the bat two I would think would pass are Journey and the Guess Who. The rest I would need more info.

Posted by Zuzu on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 20:04pm

KING: this is certainly interesting. 1, 2 and 3 (as much as I have a soft spot for him) do not pass my eraser test. 4 (Scorpions) maybe, since you could credit them with giving a rock and metal platform for non English speaking countries. Jewel does not. Journey? Maybe due to how omnipresent they were, and love them or hate them the 80's power ballads were massive giants. Don't know The Escape Club, heard of America, LL Cool J I'd say maybe, since he certainly helped rap become one of the dominant musical styles. No on the rest.

Posted by Sam on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 20:16pm

If I understand the exercise. Could we tell if the History of Rock 'Roll would be different if these bands never existed. I like some Huey Lewis but I don't think Rock History would different if they never existed. The same with Culture Club and George Michael. The Scorpions perhaps pass the Eraser test. If they had not existed German heavy metal bands and European Metal bands in General may have had trouble

Posted by Ben on Friday, 10/30/2015 @ 21:54pm

I meant heard of America just don't know much about them

Posted by Sam on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 05:19am

I remember a few songs America did.

A Horse With No Name
Ventura Highway
I Need You
Tin Man
Lonely People
Sister Golden Hair

It's hard to remember the 70s without these songs, but I would put a lot more artist ahead of them as far as importance goes. Offhand I would say know unless somebody has more info about them.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 05:34am

http://www.citypages.com/music/cases-for-against-the-2016-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-noms-7735688

CASES FOR/AGAINST THE 2016 ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME NOMS

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 07:41am

http://hbowatch.com/the-rock-roll-hall-of-fame-2016-nominees-are/

HBO WATCH

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame 2016 Nominees are…

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 07:42am

Zuzu,

I am also over 50 years old; in fact I am almost 54. Therefore, my perspective is probably very similar to yours. Many individuals in my age group tend to like "progressive rock" and of course, artists who have written their lyrics, their own music and know how to play an instrument; we are not impressed by lip synching and dancing. I have never met a single individual in my age group, who has ever purchased more than a few hit singles by any kind of dance artist, other than perhaps those of a disco artist, or if they had, they would not be willing to admit it. Many individuals in my age group tend to like classic rock and older rhythm and blues artists. Therefore artists such as: Chicago, Deep Purple, Yes, Steve Miller, The Cars and The Spinners will probably garner most of their votes.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 11:12am

Enigmaticus,

Thanks for the support. I'm about 3 or 4 years older than you. I'm old enough to remember Patsy Cline and the Twist - well barely. Most of my age group wasn't into prog as much. A lot of the people I knew went in different directions. I knew people who were also into country, folk and blues. I'm from Chicago so Chaka Khan would also be a pick. Don't forget Rufus worked with Chicago. Chaka Khan sang on a Chicago favorite around here, Take Me Back to Chicago.

The Cars not so much around here. And this might be different for some of those closer to your age. My younger brother is about a year younger than you but he was into pardy hardy rock and metal. Around here the ones closer to your age would go more for Cheap Trick.

Other than that I would say it was similar.

Disco did not go over well around here. I lived only a few mile away from Disco Demolition. My brother was part of the The Insane Coho Lips Army, Steve Dahl listeners. Saturday Night Fever came out and you did not dance.

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 11:55am

Zuzu,

You are very welcome. I am not that familiar with that many people who were into the music of Cheap Trick. Softer rock artists were also very popular among people who are my age, however.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 13:33pm

I love what Peter Cetera has to say.



"October 24, 2015

Hold your horses all you folks that are so excited about this Hall of Fame voting. Let me remind you that whomever has this vendetta that has kept the original Chicago out of the HOF is still in charge. We should have been in years ago of course and that’s my point. They have put in so many who don’t belong that it’s an insult to think that they might have to be forced to at least finally put us in the nominee category. Also, this fan vote only counts for ONE vote out of the hundreds of voters out there so there’s still a chance for them to finagle their way out of “letting” us in. I also heard something about Chicago fans cheating by voting early and voting often! Keep it up because you never know what might happen!
Ciao, p"

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 19:34pm

Enigmaticus,

I have found that different areas have different preferences. Long term a good portion of my favorite artists turned out to be from Chicago or the region. With the exception of Chicago, I didn't find out until later where they were from.
The best way I can explain it is that we speak the same language.

Cheap Trick is from Rockford. Rockford is very close to Chicago. That could be part of the reason why they were more popular here.


Just out of curiosity, since you were studying architecture and are not too far away, have you seen Taliesin West?

Posted by Zuzu on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 19:59pm

ENIG
Enjoy your posts! Curious on what your FAV Deep Purple songs and how they fit into your Prog Adjacent system. We have some commonality there. Like Child In Time, Hush, Burn, Smoke On The Water, Woman of Tokyo, Highway Star. I really enjoyed the Burn album and the Burn song with Coverdale as singer. I'm really hoping Deep Purple is inducted too. No doubt Ritchie Blackmore was 1 of the best guitarists. Should be interesting all the Deep Purple group members over the years showing up. Many are still alive and playing shows. KING

Posted by KING on Saturday, 10/31/2015 @ 20:16pm

Re: the City Pages article, one of the shoddiest op/ed pieces I've seen.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 00:54am

Philip: I think it was supposed to be out of a sort of misguided satire, since the first section said something about how silly speculating on future inductees was since the ceremony has become more one sided. That's the only explanation for things like Deep Purple's cons, Steve Miller Band's pros, and Yes's entire section.

Problem is that I didn't find any of it funny.

Posted by SotN on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 01:57am

KING,

Thank you.

As far as "prog adjacent" songs by Deep Purple are concerned, I would also choose 'Perfect Strangers,' from "Perfect Strangers," also.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 03:27am

I was reading the Recent posts. I mentioned the Other day that the Cars had a few good albums. albums that rather well regarded. I do agree Zuzu that the Fan Vote doesn't count for Much. Chicago are running strong regardless due to the Voting Body. The Nom Com probably felt forced to put Chicago in the Nominee category.

I am 50 years old so I'm in there too with the 70s. I was a teenager when the 70s turned into the 80s. So I ended up with a large variety of Music. I remember America very Well. I don't think they are going into the Hall all that soon but I remember when they were big. People my age as with some of you like Classic Rock & old R&B.

Now since a lot of the Voters are 50 and Over I think it will be a Fairly good Classic class. Not just Rock as I've said. 4 of my predictions are the Cars, Chicago Chaka Khan and Yes. I feel those to be pretty darn Good. I do think Janet Jackson will get in too due to Votes from a lot of Younger Voters and some Older. I'm not mentioning names anymore.

I am not as huge on Prog as Enig but quite a bit. I owned a lot of Yes and ELP albums when I was Young. I also got into the Moody Blues a lot. I regret that I was 10 years late on them due to my Age. In my High School Various prog groups were still Talked about. Circa 1980.

People my age also do like the Who, Eric Clapton Steely Dan Led Zep Fleetwood Mac Journey and hundreds of others. Lots of 70s and 80s Hard Rock bands too.

Posted by Ben on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 05:05am

The Blues Brothers were formed because Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi were not happy with the direction music was taking. Things change from generation to generation.

I can't help but think of some of the lyrics from Old Time Rock and Roll.

"Today's music ain't got the same soul ...

Don't try to take me to a disco
You'll never even get me out on the floor
In ten minutes I'll be late for the door ...

That kind of music just soothes the soul ...

Won't go to hear them play a tango
I'd rather hear some blues or funky old soul "

Ben, the man does not get credit for how smart he is. He gets that the fan vote sends a message. They may have expected this with Kiss fans but they got taken by surprise by Chicago fans. We pretty much have been flying under the radar but made our voices heard when it counts.

Posted by Zuzu on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 12:01pm

Why are people upset that Chicago is # 1 in the Rock Hall fan poll, but not upset that Rush and KISS also finished # 1 in the fan poll? Chicago finishing # 1 in the poll is no surprise to me. Let me remind all of you again who you are dealing with here! This is Chicago! Of the 15 nominees on this year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ballot, Chicago is the number one all-time selling and charting act on the list. Chicago at # 1 makes sense!! Rock and Roll's Holy Quintet: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys, The Bee Gees, Chicago! Chicago will join the rest in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in 2016!

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 12:24pm

Now I'm thinking that Cheap Trick and the Cars are like the J. Geils Band, Heart, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, the Cure, The Replacements and the Smiths. They won't be inducted on their first nomination.

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 14:48pm

http://hitparadehalloffame.com

THE 2015 HIT PARADE HALL OF FAME NOMINEES

Captain & Tennille
Charlie Rich
Tina Turner
Roberta Flack
Eddy Arnold
Roger Miller
Air Supply
Ben E. King
George Strait
Steve Lawrence

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 17:05pm

Here are my 6 predictions for those to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2016 (realistically):

JANET JACKSON - Sure to be a headliner, and without a doubt she'll be the female representative for next year's class. While I do think there are several female rockers that deserve to get in before Ms. Janet, I think this is the right time. Her somewhat of a comeback, fueled by a tour and new album, will be kept in mind by voters. Age and the 2004 Super Bowl incident kind of sidelined her career, but hopefully this induction will remind people of her fabulous career.

N.W.A.- I'll be the 300th person to say that because of the recent success of their bio-pic, Straight Outta Compton, there is no reason why they shouldn't be inducted in 2016. The timing is right, even though they should have been first-year inductees.

CHICAGO - Let's all be honest here...one of the reasons the Rock Hall has lost respect and credibility over the years is because of them shunning many bands, though some have been inducted in recent years (KISS, Rush). One of those bands that many people wonder who are not in is Chicago. Look, I know they weren't really innovative, but they have contributed positively in music. Just ask the fans who come to their shows, bought their singles and albums, etc. Hell, just ask Bill Clinton (its his favorite band). Hopefully people have noticed in the last five years how quickly the pop favorites have gotten in. What I mean is when Neil Diamond, Hall & Oates and Linda Ronstadt were finally nominated (after several years of being eligible), they got in the HOF just like that. Snap! The same is going to happen for Chicago, like it or not. And I'm more than excited. I can't wait to see all the surviving members on stage, and hopefully Peter Cetera will make up with the band and perform. Gonna get exciting, folks!

THE SPINNERS - Yes they have been nominated 2 or 3 times but I do think this is their year. I happened to listen to their Greatest Hits the other day and I forgot about some of their great songs besides the few that everyone is familiar with. It's been almost 7 years since the typical R&B group have been inducted (Hall & Oates and the backing groups do not count!), and I believe the Spinners are destined to be the next to be enshrined.

NINE INCH NAILS - I also believe Trent Reznor will be the newest one inducted, kind of in place of the average 'first-ballot' inductee. I think they should get him out of the way before they start to induct all the 90s acts (Pearl Jam, Alanis, Radiohead, Beck, etc) so this will be a perfect fit between Green Day and Pearl Jam. David Bowie should definitely induct him.

DEEP PURPLE - Finding a sixth one was a challenge, so I finally gave into Deep Purple. Like Chicago, they are one of the most notable bands that have been shunned for many years. I think with a strong backup of people waiting for them to get in.

Believe me, the last three were not easy to come up with, so I envisioned on how they've kept it diverse over the years. This should put it like that. I wish I can put several groups on here (okay, maybe not the JB's, lol) but maybe next year hopefully we'll see Cheap Trick or The Cars inducted next year. I'm more than happy they are on the board. And hopefully the NomCom will figure out whether or not to include Steve Miller's 'band' and decide on either Chaka Khan or Rufus.

Posted by Jason Voigt on Sunday, 11/1/2015 @ 21:32pm

One more guess as to the 2016 R&R HoF nominations:

My "official" votes (on the rockhall. com website)

The Cars
Cheap Trick
Deep Purple
The Spinners
Yes

Who I think will make it:

Chicago
Deep Purple
Janet Jackson
Yes

Beyond that, I have a tie between Chaka Khan, Chic (get it over with!) or the Spinners.

Posted by Joe on Monday, 11/2/2015 @ 01:45am

Jason- Your predictions would make for a very good class. It's one of the more realistic and reasonable predictions that I've seen lately,

Posted by DarinRG on Monday, 11/2/2015 @ 02:33am

Jason,

That is a good class. It is realistic. Mine is quite different though. I do agree with you on Janet Jackson and Chicago. I almost agree with your comments on Chicago. I just want to add that they were innovative on their first four Albums. This includes a Fantastic Live Album at Carnegie Hall. Zuzu would agree with this.

NWA and Nine Inch Nails make sense but I think the Hall will go Classic this year to catch up on the 70s artists. I feel the Cars and Yes will be in the Class instead. The Cars would represent New wave. It's been awhile since an artist of that genre went in. I think Blondie was the last. I am from that time. I can tell you that the Cars and Blondie tended to have the same fans back in 1978 1979. I was in fact a fan of both. I did not go on to be a huge New Wave fan during the mid 80s.

Yes I would think will most definitely get in due to the Big Buzz. There is a buzz for Prog in general but Particularly Yes. Added to that is that Chris Squire passed.

I happen to like the Spinners and I love Deep Purple. Now Deep Purple is loved at my job by us Classic Rockers but we also feel they will be snubbed for several more years. We used to joke that they would be inducted in 2027! Nooo they will go in Wayyy before that but perhaps not until 2018 or 2019.

I think this may be the year for Chic. I have stated my view on the group itself. A good point has been made that many rock artists would vote for them. I won't mention names.

Those are my thoughts on your list. It is a good admirable list nonetheless Jason. It is realistic. I'll stick with mine. A Half Rock Half R&B list.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 11/2/2015 @ 05:18am

Ben wrote:
Jason,

That is a good class. It is realistic. Mine is quite different though. I do agree with you on Janet Jackson and Chicago. I almost agree with your comments on Chicago. I just want to add that they were innovative on their first four Albums. This includes a Fantastic Live Album at Carnegie Hall. Zuzu would agree with this.

Monday, 11.2.15 @ 05:18am

I say the first 11 albums.

Posted by Roy on Monday, 11/2/2015 @ 06:45am

I say the first 4 for Chicago were Innovative but they were still Very good through Chicago XI. In other words the first 11 are pretty good.

Now I just want to say many of my Favs and other deserving artists are in. My Fav band is the Who. They went in right away. I am a huge fan of Neil Young and Eric Clapton as well, I don't talk a lot about those because they have been in a long time. In those day me and a lot of us thought the Hall was on the mark. I didn't think a lot about who was left out. I was real happy about the Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers too.

I did notice around 2000 that the Hall was still honoring the deep past with people like the Moonglows Lovin Spoonful and the Flamingos without honoring and in fact inducting deserving artists of the late 60s and early 70s. I was overjoyed when Bruce Springsteen went in. Same thing with Tom Petty and the Talking Heads. Clearly the biggest problem was that they shrank the Classes to 5. Had it stayed at 7 or 8 a year there would not have been such a problem. The Hall could have inducted the Dave Clark Five and Rush at the same time as an example in 2008. I always felt it was fair to honor the past before me. Shrinking the Classes was going too far.

If the classes had stayed at 8 let's say then Chicago may have at least gone in 5 years ago in 2010. Then Chicago would not have been as late. It would have been ideal that Chicago went in on time with Allman Brothers Zep and Neil Young. I suppose that's too much to ask. Couldn't Chicago at least have gone in alongside Jimmy Cliff and the Hollies. Same thing with Deep Purple and Yes. They could have gone in before this.

If you excuse me I'll be ordering some old Chicago albums.

Posted by Ben on Monday, 11/2/2015 @ 07:13am