The Intruders

Not in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Eligible since: 1990 (The 1991 Induction Ceremony)

Previously Considered? No  what's this?

The Intruders @ Wikipedia

The Intruders Videos

Will The Intruders be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?
"Musical excellence is the essential qualification for induction."
   

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49 comments so far (post your own)

THE INTRUDERS were to Philly what THE MIRACLES were to Detroit. The First Group. The group that Put the Philly Sound on the map....LONG before THE O'JAYS, HAROLD MEVIN & THE BLUE NOTES, THE SPINNERS, and THE STYLISTICS.

It was THE INTRUDERS that first made Gamble and Huff famous.Not the other groups....THE INTRUDERS. Samuel "Little Sonny" Brown, Phil Terry,Robert "Big Sonny" Edwards , and Eugene "Bird" Daugherty deserve to be inducted .

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 03.27.12 @ 23:25pm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intruders_%28music_group%29

24 Pop and R&B Chart Hits in the U.S. between 1966 and 1985.
At least 4 charting hits in the U.K.
Gamble and Huff are in the Hall of Fame.
The Intruders should be too. Ask THEM how important The Intruders were to their career.

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 03.27.12 @ 23:32pm


from Wikipedia:

"The Intruders were an American soul music group most popular in the 1960s and 1970s. As one of the first groups to have hit songs under the direction of Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, they had a major influence on the development of Philadelphia soul."

In 1965, when songwriters and record producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff first contemplated leaving the Cameo-Parkway record label to risk launching their own label, the vocalists on which they pinned all their hopes and venture capital were The Intruders. Like many other subsequent acts the duo produced, which included Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes and The O'Jays, The Intruders had already developed a vocal sound that was both theirs and uniquely Philadelphian.[3]

Brown, Daughtry, Terry and Edwards had been recording and performing one-off singles together since 1961, blending Philly's street corner doo-wop tradition with black gospel fervor. The result was neither as pop-infected as Motown, nor as funky and blues-inflected as Stax. The sound which The Intruders refined for the Excel, Gamble and Philadelphia International imprints reflected a different attitude than either Stax or Motown.

Gamble and Huff's success with The Intruders helped convince Columbia Records to grant them the money to launch Philadelphia International. Gamble and Huff acknowledged that their work with The Intruders was the foundation of what they called "The Sound Of Philadelphia"

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 03.27.12 @ 23:35pm


THE INTRUDERS were to Philly what THE MIRACLES were to Detroit. The First Group. The group that Put the Philly Sound on the map....LONG before THE O'JAYS, HAROLD MEVIN & THE BLUE NOTES, THE SPINNERS, and THE STYLISTICS.


from Wikipedia:

"The Intruders were an American soul music group most popular in the 1960s and 1970s. As one of the first groups to have hit songs under the direction of Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, they had a major influence on the development of Philadelphia soul."

In 1965, when songwriters and record producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff first contemplated leaving the Cameo-Parkway record label to risk launching their own label, the vocalists on which they pinned all their hopes and venture capital were The Intruders. Like many other subsequent acts the duo produced, which included Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes and The O'Jays, The Intruders had already developed a vocal sound that was both theirs and uniquely Philadelphian.

Brown, Daughtry, Terry and Edwards had been recording and performing one-off singles together since 1961, blending Philly's street corner doo-wop tradition with black gospel fervor. The result was neither as pop-infected as Motown, nor as funky and blues-inflected as Stax. The sound which
THE INTRUDERS were to Philly what THE MIRACLES were to Detroit. The First Group. The group that Put the Philly Sound on the map....LONG before THE O'JAYS, HAROLD MEVIN & THE BLUE NOTES, THE SPINNERS, and THE STYLISTICS.

It was THE INTRUDERS that first made Gamble and Huff famous.Not the other groups....THE INTRUDERS. Samuel "Little Sonny" Brown, Phil Terry,Robert "Big Sonny" Edwards , and Eugene "Bird" Daugherty deserve to be inducted .


The Intruders refined for the Excel, Gamble and Philadelphia International imprints reflected a different attitude than either Stax or Motown.

Gamble and Huff's success with The Intruders helped convince Columbia Records to grant them the money to launch Philadelphia International. Gamble and Huff acknowledged that their work with The Intruders was the foundation of what they called "The Sound Of Philadelphia"

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 04.16.13 @ 12:59pm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intruders_%28music_group%29

24 Pop and R&B Chart Hits in the U.S. between 1966 and 1985.
At least 4 charting hits in the U.K.
Gamble and Huff are in the Hall of Fame.
The Intruders should be too. Ask THEM how important The Intruders were to their career.

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 04.16.13 @ 13:00pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYKaDBleJA

****The INTRUDERS****

One of the most IMPORTANT groups in R&B/Soul music history. And sadly, one of the most UNSUNG . Just as The Miracles were Berry Gordy's first group, THE INTRUDERS were Gamble & Huff's first group...and their success led to the formation of the ENTIRE Gamble-Huff-Thom Bell Philly Soul empire. No matter WHAT The O'Jays, Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, The Stylistics, The Delfonics, and The Spinners accomplished, THE INTRUDERS were there FIRST. It was their success on G&H's "GAMBLE" label that caused CBS to front them the seed money to form Philly International Records...And The Intruders went on to have some 24 Pop and R&B Chart Hits in the U.S. between 1966 and 1985.
and at least 4 charting hits in the U.K.

Songs like the million-selling "Cowboys To Girls", "United" (which has been covered by everyone from Peaches and Herb to Tierra) "Love Is Just Like A Baseball Game", "I Bet He Don't Love You(Like I Love You" "Together", "I Wanna Know Your Name", "I'll Always Love My Mama", and numerous others...

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 11:53am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk32jm69Icg

If the Hall of Fame has inducted The O'Jays, and has nominated The Spinners, The INTRUDERS should DEFINITELY be considered....

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 11:58am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLN4K2c6Eqo

The INTRUDERS and their music has had a MAJOR impact ...not only on Black R&B/Soul fans...but has also had a MAJOR influence on Latin-American Culture. Because of this success, although the original group broke up in the mid 1970's ,there are at least four different groups touring the U.S.A. using their name until this very day.

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 12:08pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma2jmDGRW8k

If Gamble & Huff are inducted into the Hall, THE INTRUDERS should WELL be considered.

From Wikipedia:

"The Intruders were an American soul music group most popular in the 1960s and 1970s.[1] As one of the first groups to have hit songs under the direction of Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, they had a major influence on the development of Philadelphia soul".

Biography[edit source]

Formed around 1960, the group originally consisted of Sam "Little Sonny" Brown, Eugene "Bird" Daughtry, Phillip "Phil" Terry and Robert "Big Sonny" Edwards.[2] In 1969, Sam Brown was replaced as lead singer by Bobby Starr, only to rejoin the group in 1973.

In 1965, when songwriters and record producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff first contemplated leaving the Cameo-Parkway record label to risk launching their own label, the vocalists on which they pinned all their hopes and venture capital were The Intruders. Like many other subsequent acts the duo produced, which included Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes and The O'Jays, The Intruders had already developed a vocal sound that was both theirs and uniquely Philadelphian.[3]

"Brown, Daughtry, Terry and Edwards had been recording and performing one-off singles together since 1961, blending Philly's street corner doo-wop tradition with black gospel fervor. The result was neither as pop-infected as Motown, nor as funky and blues-inflected as Stax. The sound which The Intruders refined for the Excel, Gamble and Philadelphia International imprints reflected a different attitude than either Stax or Motown" .

Gamble and Huff's success with The Intruders helped convince Columbia Records to grant them the money to launch Philadelphia International. Gamble and Huff acknowledged that their work with The Intruders was the foundation of what they called "The Sound Of Philadelphia".[5]

The Intruders, meanwhile, were undergoing some internal turmoil. When the group resurfaced on the 1970 Gamble LP, When We Get Married, lead singer Brown was replaced by Bobby Starr.[6] The title song, "When We Get Married" (R&B #8, Pop #45), a Dreamlovers cover, became a hit on the charts, as was the follow-up "Win, Place Or Show (She's A Winner)" (UK #14).[1] Starr's tenure with the group included Soul Train television appearances, and the rare collector's single, "I'm Girl Scoutin".[7] Brown returned to the group in 1973 for the album Save The Children, which spawned The Intruders' last two big hits, "I Wanna Know Your Name" (R&B #9, Pop #60) and "I'll Always Love My Mama" (R&B #6, Pop #36). Kenny Gamble's mother Ruby, the inspiration for "I'll Always Love My Mama", died 10 March 2012 in Mount Airy, Pennsylvania, at age 96.

"Cowboys to Girls" (R&B #1, Pop #6) remains the only chart topping single of their career. It was awarded an R.I.A.A. gold disc for one million sales in mid May 1968.[2] It was covered by the Hacienda Brothers. Other covers of their hit singles included "Together", which was recorded by Gladys Knight & The Pips on their Silk 'N' Soul LP, as well as The Three Degrees on their 1975 work, Take Good Care Of Yourself.

During the late 1970s and early 1980s, their music was popular on the West Coast among Latino, specifically Chicano, youth.[citation needed] Daughtry died of cancer on December 25, 1994 at age 55, and Brown committed suicide by jumping off the Strawberry Mansion Bridge in April 1995. The Intruders today include Bobby Starr, Glenn Montgomery and Phil Gay. The group tours with the Love Train: Sound of Philadelphia Concert series.[8] There are also several tribute groups including the best variation of The Intruders, "The Philly Intruders" who appear on The Big Show DVD, and "The Fabulous Intruders" founded by William Payton, Sr.







Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 12:18pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQTaG0aaZvo

****The INTRUDERS****

"I WANNA KNOW YOUR NAME"

Top 10 R&B # 60 POP- from "Soul Train"-(1973)

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 12:24pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eBV8w_hL8

*****THE INTRUDERS*****

"United" (1966) # 14 R&B, # 78 Pop

This song was covered by Peaches & Herb in 1968, two years after The Intruders' original hit version, and later inspired their even bigger follow-up hit, "REUNITED" A # 1 Billboard Pop Smash ten years later, in 1978.





Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 12:41pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7J69dPI62o

******The INTRUDERS*******

"(Love Is Like A) Baseball Game"

# 26 Pop, #4 R&B

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 13:09pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXJj3Jo06kg

******The INTRUDERS******

"SLOW DRAG"

# 54 Pop, # 12 R&B

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 13:16pm


*****The INTRUDERS*****

The Intruders are the most covered group in Philly Soul history. Their songs have been covered by: Peaches & Herb, The Three Degrees, Tierra, Gladys Knight & The Pips,The Hacienda Brothers, Gene Chandler, Keith Sweat,Philly Cream, The Fugees, Coolio,Mos Def, The Jungle Brothers,Slow Pain,Bachelors of Science,Joe Bataan,and many more

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 13:44pm


http://badcatrecords.com/BadCat/INTRUDERS.htm

"Most people don't realize it, but The Intruders are the guys who made Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff rich."

"Sam (Little Sonny) Brown, Eugene 'Bird' Daughtery and Robert (Big Sonny) Edwards started their musical collaboration singing in a Gospel group. By the late 1950's they'd abandoned secular sounds for doo-wop, and in 1960 the trio crossed paths with fellow doo-wop singer Phillip Terry. When Terry's group called it quits he was invited to join the other three. Originally known as The Four Intruders, the group's debut came via the small Philly-based Gowan label IN 1961"

(Read the rest of The Intruders' story at the above link).

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 13:47pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_yh70iCx6I

****THE INTRUDERS-"Cowboys To Girls"****

(Top 10 Pop & R&B)...# 6 Pop, # 1 R&B


The INTRUDERS and other important artists of the "Soul Train Era" should not be allowed to pass into history without proper recognition.

So far, however, with the exceptions of The O'Jays , and a few others, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has turned a deaf ear....

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 08.27.13 @ 14:06pm


Bill G., I must confess that I was not too well acquainted with The Intruders until reading your comments here and watching the YouTube videos you've shared. I'm very glad I made the time to check out those clips, as I can now appreciate The Intruders' place in soul music and innovating the Sound of Philadelphia. Their vocal harmonies and melodic phrasing just ooze soul and passion!

I'm sure you can sympathize with me on this point, but I've always found it strange how the Hall has embraced just about all the major Motown vocal groups (Strangely, The Marvelettes and Junior Walker & the All Stars are still not in but are very worthy of induction) while slighting the various Philadelphia-based vocal groups of the 1970s. While Motown certainly has its place, I think too many listeners focus on The Temptations, The Supremes, and the other big names while ignoring other great soul/funk/R&B vocal groups from the 1960s and '70s. Listening to FM oldies stations, you'd think that Motown accounted for 95% of the black vocal groups during the '60s and '70s, which you and I know isn't true. No wonder I quit listening to oldies stations and started seeking out albums and sets a long time ago.

It is refreshing to see The O'Jays in the Hall, but like you said, The Intruders were the group that gave Gamble and Huff their initial success and paved the way for future Philadelphia soul groups like The O'Jays, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes (My all time favorite Philly soul group), The Delfonics, The Stylistics, and others. I think they're significant enough for the Hall. Let's hope they make it in soon!

As far as our beloved Soul Train era goes, I am definitely in favor of the following getting inducted during the next ten years:

The Intruders
Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes
The Spinners
War
Bill Withers
Jerry Butler
Billy Preston (In the Sideman Category, but his solo material is very strong)
The Commodores
Nickolas Ashford & Valerie Simpson (In the Non-Performer Category)
Junior Walker and the All Stars
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan

And of course, a special shrine for the man who created Soul Train and helped expose many of the great soul/R&B/funk groups/singers to millions of viewers...

Don Cornelius!

Posted by Zach on Sunday, 09.1.13 @ 23:13pm


Many thanks for the kind words, Zach !!

Yes, artists of the "Soul Train Era" , (that is, late '60's -late 70's Soul/R&B) are among the most ignored and unsung by the Hall. It's as if the RRHOF just chose to bypass that entire era of music, as if it had never even existed ...and went straight to focusing on 80's Rap/Hip-Hop.

They also bypassed Soul Train's legendary host, Don Cornelius. Don is perhaps the single most important figure in bringing Black Music to the masses. His only rival is Berry Gordy. His "Soul Train" T.V. series opened the doors for an entire generation of artists that were not before seen on television...artists that American Bandstand would not touch. He also opened the way for mainstream White America to peer into the world of Black Culture and Dance that had it had never been able to see before. Eventually, Soul Train became a worldwide phenomonon...being seen in many other countries around the globe. These artists of the Soul Train Era became world wide stars..and help launch the Funk and Disco Eras, as well as R&B/Soul. Although he died (one can only imagine the crippling pain he suffered from his headaches in his last days...not to mention a failing marriage that caused him to take is own life) the fact remains that Don Cornelius remains the single most important figure in the promotion and mainstream acceptance of Black Music in the last 40 -plus years...and his omission from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a great travesty that won't be corrected until he is inducted !!!

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 00:25am


Along with the artists you mentioned, Zach, I'd like to add a few more names:

Barry White

Lou Rawls

Dionne Warwick

The Chi-Lites

The Whispers

The Manhattans

The Dramatics

Gene Chandler

Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong

The Fifth Dimension (don't knock them....they made some pretty great Soul tunes, in addition to their Pop material)

Mary Wells

Edwin Starr (another overlooked Motown star...had a HUGE career in Britain's "Northern Soul" movement after his Motown years in the States).

Frank Wilson (wrote many , MANY big hits for Motown ...for the Miracles, Marvin Gaye , The Supremes, The Four Tops, Eddie Kendricks, and numerous others...but never gets a HINT of the mention or accolades other Motown writers have gotten...look him up on Wikipedia...you'll be SHOCKED at all of the big hits he's written)

The Funk Brothers (musical excellence)

The Andantes (musical excellence)

Ben E. King

Brook Benton



Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 00:39am


also:

Patti LaBelle & The Blue Belles/ LaBelle

The Tavares Brothers

The Pointer Sisters

The Valentinos (yes, I know that Bobby is already in, but, he and his brothers were HUGELY influential-with many of their tunes covered by other artists...just ask The Stones).

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 00:50am


Bill, I too took it upon myself to look into the Intruders more upon your recommendation, and while I did not come to the same conclusion as Zach and you, I hope you at least realize that I'm more in agreement with you than you thought, even though I don't agree in a sycophantic manner.

Between the two of you, I'll comment whether I agree or disagree and see if I have any other names I'd like to add:

The Intruders--Sorry, but even after investigating them more, I'm still not sold on them
Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes--BIG YES
The Spinners--I called them one of the top seven snubs in the Predictions thread, didn't I?
War--Yes
Bill Withers--On the fence... could take or leave
Jerry Butler--Definitely
Billy Preston (In the Sideman Category, but his solo material is very strong)--Screw the Sideman category, he belongs in as a Performer!
The Commodores--Yes, but not the most glaring omission
Nickolas Ashford & Valerie Simpson (In the Non-Performer Category)--Yes, but their body of work as Performers is pretty strong too.
Junior Walker and the All Stars--Yup
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan--Yes

Don Cornelius!--Naturally

Barry White--Very much so

Lou Rawls--Not as much as Barry, but definitely yes.

Dionne Warwick--Still stuck on no. I still think of her as a trite pop artist. IMHO, Petula Clark has more rock and soul chops than Dionne. Okay, that's hyperbole, but you get what I'm saying.

The Chi-Lites--Tough sell but I'm with you on this one

The Whispers--On the fence. Could take or leave them.

The Manhattans--Need to look into them more

The Dramatics--Same as the Manhattans

Gene Chandler--Bill makes some good points, but time hasn't been great for me to check out his catalog too extensively. For now I'll say "Could take or leave"

Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong--Big yes

The Fifth Dimension (don't knock them....they made some pretty great Soul tunes, in addition to their Pop material)--I hate "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In", but their treatment of Nyro's "Sweet Blindness" should be required listening. I'll say yes.

Mary Wells--Don't like her, but deserving indeed.

Edwin Starr (another overlooked Motown star...had a HUGE career in Britain's "Northern Soul" movement after his Motown years in the States).--On the fence. "War" is an anthem, and "Twenty-Five Miles" and "Agent Double-O Soul" are good. But if you want to talk about his career in the UK as merit, you have to start talking about Cliff Richard, Status Quo, et al. first.

Frank Wilson (wrote many , MANY big hits for Motown ...for the Miracles, Marvin Gaye , The Supremes, The Four Tops, Eddie Kendricks, and numerous others...but never gets a HINT of the mention or accolades other Motown writers have gotten...look him up on Wikipedia...you'll be SHOCKED at all of the big hits he's written)--I'll take that dare and prepare to be shocked.

The Funk Brothers (musical excellence)--I want individual members recognized. They've already done that for Jamerson and Benjamin.

The Andantes (musical excellence)--These guys I'd probably accept as a group induction though.

Ben E. King--Very much so.

Brook Benton--Glaring omission

Patti LaBelle & The Blue Belles/LaBelle--Not in the top of my queue, but maybe eventually

Tavares--I could go for that, but if they get in the R&B Hall and not the Rock Hall, I'd be okay with that too.

The Pointer Sisters--Big yes

The Valentinos (yes, I know that Bobby is already in, but, he and his brothers were HUGELY influential-with many of their tunes covered by other artists...just ask The Stones).--I'm gonna say no... it's a tough call, but having some big names record your songs and make hits out of them really isn't enough. I like the Valentinos, but I don't think they pass the bar. Maybe make them like Darlene Love or Laura Nyro... someone they purposely induct to make up for not being as big as they should have been.


I'll also add:

Johnnie Taylor--The Soul Philosopher, more deserving than Joe Tex, or at the very least, at the same level.

The Delfonics

The Stylistics

The GAP Band

MFSB (Sideman/Musical Excellence)

Thom Bell

And I could maybe take or leave the Five Stairsteps. Not big on them. Maybe just the R&B Hall for them.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 01:52am


As long as I can remember , Philip, you and I have had these little "disagreements" . I guess we always will. But you look at the merits of possible R&B inductees from the standpoint of a person who has relatively limited exposure to R&B music...someone who was not really a fan of it, as I was. So, I don't expect you to have the same enthusiasm for it as I do. You were not a part of that era, nor did you grow up with this music,and you were not as I've said,a fan, or, "in the loop" . Therefore,your assessment of R&B artists would be as distant and inaccurate as if I, for example would attempt to make judgements of the suitability of certain Rock acts of which I have little exposure to, and am not really a fan of .

The big difference between you and I is that , if I have little knowledge of certain Rock acts or their impact , I am not as quick as you are to simply dismiss them out of hand,as being automatically "not deserving". I prefer to reserve judgement..and/or defer it to those who ARE familiar with that artist's work . I am not going to try to pass myself off as a "heavy head", or an expert of musical genres with which I have little exposure of or enthusiasm for.

I know a LOT about classic R&B music...not just because I read about it in Wikipedia (because all you're gonna see THERE is basic bios and chart stats)...but , because I GREW UP with it , and actually LIKE it.I was alive during that era...I LIVED THROUGH IT...and as a singer myself for many years my group and I welcomed each new release.

Case in point: When almost everyone here stated that RUSH was deserving of induction,I deferred to their judgement, because I had very little knowledge of them ( their songs were not exactly "required listening" on R&B radio stations), so I read up on them in Wikipedia...and , what I read was very impressive.

But, THAT IS NOT THE SAME as someone who grew up with their music. I didn't, so I defer to those who DID.

So, I don't expect you to want to give the nod to the Intruders..because I suspect you know very little about their music...other than hearing "Cowboys To Girls" occasionally on Oldies radio stations. THAT IS NOT A FAIR ASSESSMENT OF THEIR WORTH.

Did you know that The Intruders' music, like that of Mary Wells,and Gene Chandler, has had a HUGE impact on The Latin-American community ? Not just African-Americans. Try asking THEM if The Intruders are deserving of induction. Trust me, you'll get a resounding "yes"!!

Ask Gamble and Huff. Yes, they're in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. And who do you think started them on the road to get in there ? THE INTRUDERS.

Ask CBS Records.Who's success do you think caused them to front G&H the money to form Philly International Records in the FIRST place ? THE INTRUDERS. That's not just me saying that. It's a published FACT.

So, they weren't Rock gods or Pop icons. SO WHAT ? They were a very important historical group...and very influential: The Intruders are the most covered group in Philly Soul history. Their songs have been covered by: Peaches & Herb, The Three Degrees, Tierra, Gladys Knight & The Pips,The Hacienda Brothers, Gene Chandler, Keith Sweat,Philly Cream, The Fugees, Coolio,Mos Def, The Jungle Brothers,Slow Pain,Bachelors of Science,Joe Bataan,and many more. `

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 03:08am


So...where am I going with all of this ? : Simply put: It's OK to express a personal opinion. But when it comes to putting entries on a site that a LOT of people look at, especially many people on the Nominating Committee, It's important that a group or artist be portrayed FAIRLY and ACCURATELY...by someone who is FAMILIAR with them,and
their work....

...And not by someone who ISN'T.

I wouldn't do that...

and you shouldn't either.

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 03:25am


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Wilson_(musician)

Oh, and while I'm at it....

two things:

1) The Andantes are NOT "guys". They're GIRLS, Philip.

(That's what I mean by the difference between KNOWING about an artist...and NOT)


2) SONGS WRITTEN OR CO-WRITTEN by Motown Songwriter

*****FRANK WILSON*****

1) LOVE CHILD-The Supremes

2) STONED LOVE-The Supremes

3) ALL I NEED-The Temptations

4) I'M LIVIN' IN SHAME-The Supremes

5) STILL WATERS RUN DEEP -The Four Tops

(co-written with Smokey)

6)CHAINED- Marvin Gaye

7) UP THE LADDER TO THE ROOF-The Supremes

8)KEEP ON TRUCKING-Eddie Kendricks

9) BOOGIE DOWN-Eddie Kendricks

10) CAN I -Eddie Kendricks

11) IT'S THE WAY NATURE PLANNED IT-The Four Tops

12) YOU MADE ME SO VERY HAPPY- Brenda Holloway

(co-written with Brenda, her sister Patrice, and Berry Gordy-later covered by Blood,Sweat, & Tears)

13. WHOLE LOT OF SHAKING-The Miracles

14. NATHAN JONES-The Supremes

15.CASTLES IN THE SAND-Stevie Wonder

(this is a partial list).

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 03:45am


Bill, I think you misjudge me. While I did not grow up with this particular music, I am indeed much more open than you give me credit for. At your recommendation, I looked up the Intruders and checked out their catalog. But I am not going to always defer to someone who grew up with their music either. That's just absolute crap. For one thing, people have very specific memories tied to certain songs that may otherwise cloud their judgment (see Little Steven's induction speech for the Rascals). For another, it's no one's fault that they weren't born in a certain time or certain place. I've had people tell me that I can't be a true fan of this or that '60s group because I wasn't alive back then. That is absolute nonsense. The means are out there to check out classic artists, and the music is supposed to stand the test of time. The HoF people themselves say "Unquestionable musical excellence" is really the only criterion, which means you can't be completely dismissive of subjective tastes either. And I'm sorry, I just don't think the Intruders measure up. That shouldn't mean that you get to relentlessly hound me for not agreeing with you. Historical achievements are noteworthy, but sometimes they are just records for their own sakes, like curios in a cabinet. Historical significance isn't always enough. Otherwise, the Church Street Five would be in, as "A Night With Daddy G" was a template of sorts for a lot of songs that came after it ("Runaround Sue", "Quarter To Three", "Dancing Party", and those that had strong similarities to it like "Shout! Shout! (Knock Yourself Out)". As far as I know, the Orlons' "South Street" was the first major song to use the word "hippies". Should the Orlons be inducted for being the first group to acknowledge that segment of the subculture that later became much bigger? Not necessarily.

I admitted to an unfamiliarity with some of those artists, but I also have said that I am willing to check out those artists further. Isn't that good enough for you? Or do you actually need me to agree with you in lockstep fashion? Because that's not going to happen. (My initial dismissal of Gene Chandler was premature and actually quite uncharacteristic of me.) And what about the fact that I *DID* agree with a LOT of the artists both you and Zach mentioned? That's not enough to make you realize I'm not nearly the enemy you treat me as? You can say a hell of a lot of things about me, but you cannot say that I'm closed-minded. I may be stubborn, but not closed-minded.

A couple this-and-thats at the end.

1) Big whoops on the Andantes. I got the gender wrong, but I have heard of them, and for that to happen should be indicator of some importance on these ladies' behalf (behalves?)

2) Thank you for the list of Frank Wilson songs. It's a good list, however incomplete. Many of those songs I know; many I don't. However, from an outside opinion, it also shows why he's been overlooked. I'm NOT saying he shouldn't be in. I'm saying that "Love Child" and "Keep On Truckin'" are the two biggest classics on that list (though I love "Stoned Love" best of those I know). The list of songs doesn't have quite the same cache as those of Holland-Dozier-Holland or Smokey Robinson. Again, not an indictment against Frank, but it does make sense how he could have slipped through the cracks all these years. Still an injustice, but a somewhat understandable one.

3) No comment on the artists I suggested?

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 11:21am


I think you've kinda got things turned around. It is usually YOU who constantly come onto this site...and blast MY choices.It's happened more than once...and everyone else here sees it. 1) I make a comment about an artist or group, either alone, or in conversation with someone else, as I was doing with Zach. 2) You come on , and start blasting my choices, or, in this case, Zach's and mine. We think that The Intruders are great. YOU come along ,just for argument's sake, and go on to the attack, saying that they're NOT. 3) a confrontation ensues.
I think that you are just confrontational, and like to argue for the sake of argument. I also think that you tend to be more critical of R&B artists than you are Rock ones. Face it. You are a Rockist.

And, that's OK, if that's what you want to be.


But , I'm not going to change my opinion of The Intruders, or Gene Chandler, or The Famous Flames, just on your say so. Sorry.



Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 12:25pm


"YOU come along ,just for argument's sake, and go on to the attack, saying that they're NOT. 3) a confrontation ensues.
I think that you are just confrontational, and like to argue for the sake of argument."--Bill G.

I'm not confrontation by nature, but everything else in the selected quote I think is accurate. But in all fairness, this is a site about discussing whether or not an artist belongs in the Hall. That almost necessitates debate/argument. It sharpens the mind, and you have helped challenge me and sharpen my mind as I hope I've given you pause occasionally and rethink something, even if you come back more resolved. This site would be quite boring if all comments on here were sycophantic agreement and gladhanding of each other's opinions. I may be critical, but I hope that I don't come off as intentionally caustic or mean-spirited, at least not unless I feel the other person has been mean-spirited first. I don't expect to change your opinion of the Intruders, Gene Chandler, the Famous Flames, or anyone else, but I don't think it's asking a lot to phrase future discussion on it by pre-emptively addressing reservations that others have brought up, or to at least respectfully address those points. Even in my previous post, I brought up broader issues regarding any artist's merit for induction. You've ignored that point outright, opting instead to go straight after me for doing what I believe is the very purpose of this website, in what looks like an attempt to drive me away from this site.

"I also think that you tend to be more critical of R&B artists than you are Rock ones. Face it. You are a Rockist."

Bill G., I'm trying to find the nicest way to say it: I think you just plain haven't read half of what I've written here or are selective of what you remember. Did you see my list on the 2014 predictions thread of biggest snubs? I've got the Spinners and Marvelettes on there. On my blog, ranking the past nominees, I put LL Cool J at #2 and had Donna Summer, the Spinners, and Ben E. King all in the Top Ten. Did you STILL not see that I agreed with the lion's share of the R&B artists that you and Zach posted on this very thread? Or that I suggested a few more? Nothing about those? I am not a rockist, and it is just ridiculous to suggest that I am. I'm not on board with artists like Peter Frampton or Foreigner, and for crying out loud I've pissed off a number of rockists (especially the Britishists) for not being on board with Joy Division or New Order. I hate most prog, but I do acknowledge its importance, just as I recognize soul and classic R&B. Please stop seeing just the parts that incense you.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 12:54pm


*not confrontational by nature. Sorry

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 12:55pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDz5aC_9-Uo

Zach:

I agree wholeheartedly on your assessment of The Intruders' harmonies. They have a unique sound that I haven't heard in any other group. When you hear them on record, or on the radio, you immediately KNOW that it's them.

Listen to this one from 1970- "When We Get Married" ...just AWESOME !!

Posted by Bill G on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 13:01pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLN4K2c6Eqo

*****The INTRUDERS-"Together" (1967)

My all-time favorite Intruders song

# 48 Pop, Top 10 R&B (#9)

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 16:25pm


70 % of FRL voters say "YES" to The INTRUDERS.

30 % said "no".

(or maybe that's Philip voting multiple times)

(LOL)

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 16:28pm


Philip, I stand by my view that Billy Preston is better suited as a Sideman induction rather than a Performer. He certainly enjoyed a successful solo career with great hits (Outa-Space, Will It Go Round in Circles, Nothing from Nothing, Space Race, That's the Way God Planned It, Struttin', etc.) and he played a role in popularizing the use of the clavinet, he was not of the major players in 1970s soul/funk/R&B/disco. His primary achievements occurred when he was a session man for Ray Charles, Little Richard, Sam Cooke, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, and other top-shelf bands/singers. As far as influence and impact go, the only related factoids I could find were that Stephen Stills used one of Preston's quotes as the title for his song Love the One You're With and Miles Davis recorded an eponymous song on his 1974 album Get Up With It. Not necessarily the things of which a HOF career are made of.

Don't misinterpret my assessement as a knock on Billy Preston, as I do enjoy his solo material. I feel that his HOF credentials are in his sideman/sessionist years.

Bill G, I wouldn't classify Philip as a rockist. Like you and I, he's been very vocal about his support of various soul/R&B/funk artists (He just named The Spinners and Ben E. King among his top RRHOF snubs), as well as many pre-Beatles acts that the rockist crowd ignores. Philip isn't a devotee of the cult of the guitar, and has argued in favor of other instruments that play seminal roles in rock 'n roll (The saxophone, for one). I don't see eye-to-eye with him on The Intruders, bu t I can assure you that he is not a rockist who only favors bands that use guitars.

Bill G., I too agree with inducting Barry White, The Funk Brothers, Ben E. King, Frank Wilson (With all the notable songs he had a hand in writing, how the hell is he not yet in the Hall?), The Pointer Sisters, and Norman Whitfield & Barret Strong, and am glad you brought their names up. I'll have to look into Edwin Starr, as I love his title track for the 1973 blaxploitation film Hell Up in Harlem (A great movie, too), but cannot stand War because of its overexposure and irritating chorus. Likewise with The 5th Dimension (Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In and Wedding Bell Blues are golden turkey nominees, but I do want to track down their more soulful songs. Got any recommendations on where to begin?).

Posted by Zach on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 18:04pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V0drJ2TybE

Zach :

Here's an EXCELLENT place to START. "Feelin' Alright" Billy Davis Jr on lead vocals.

One of the 5-D's BEST !!!

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 19:45pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iff2RPJrP7c

here's ANOTHER- 1971'S live single-"Together Let's Find Love" featuring lead singers Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr. (I can't believe those two are still married after 43 years...fantastic !!)

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 19:55pm


"Bill G, I wouldn't classify Philip as a rockist. Like you and I, he's been very vocal about his support of various soul/R&B/funk artists (He just named The Spinners and Ben E. King among his top RRHOF snubs), as well as many pre-Beatles acts that the rockist crowd ignores. Philip isn't a devotee of the cult of the guitar, and has argued in favor of other instruments that play seminal roles in rock 'n roll (The saxophone, for one). I don't see eye-to-eye with him on The Intruders, bu t I can assure you that he is not a rockist who only favors bands that use guitars."

Well, Zach, maybe he's not...but he sure has a funny way of showing it.

Our maybe he just likes arguing with ME !!

(who knows)

One things for sure : The Intruders' FRL approval rating just dropped from 70% this morning to 68% now.

I can only GUESS WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE...(HA-HA !!!)

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 20:03pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eBV8w_hL8

AND SO, JUST TO CELEBRATE...Here are THE INTRUDERS singing their classic "United" from 1966.

(Peaches and Herb covered this song two years later...and 10 years after THAT , recorded the sequel song, the # 1 smash, "REUNITED").

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 20:09pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGM59qlIOE

After MARILYN and BILLY left the Fifth Dimension, Billy recorded this DYNAMITE solo single : "Three Steps From True Love"

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 20:14pm


Thank you Zach for your kind words. I fear you may be right about Preston. They did that with Leon Russell. The major differences are 1) from a commercial success point-of-view, Preston's career was more substantial than Russell's, and 2) Preston has been Previously Considered whereas Leon was not.

Bill, I don't think I've voted on this page honestly. I'm not the reason. I do agree that their harmonies were unique, and they certainly should be in the Vocal Group Hall if that ever gets resurrected (along with James Brown And The Famous Flames). Unfortunately, there's something about the harmonies that doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it's the overall tone color. Not sure.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.2.13 @ 21:33pm


"Unfortunately, there's something about the harmonies that doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it's the overall tone color. Not sure."

Posted by Philip

You say that you are not by nature confrontational, yet, you deliberately say things that you KNOW will cause argument and confrontation .

Maybe you have another name for it.

You just HAVE to always say something negative. You can't seem to help yourself.

Nevertheless, I like The Intruders...and so do a LOT of other people .

Maybe, instead of talking to ME, you should just send an email to Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff...and tell them just how lousy you think The Intruders are.

I'd LOVE to see the response you'll get .(Ha-Ha)!!

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 09.3.13 @ 00:43am


Billy's not stupid. I think just about any man would want to be married to Marilyn McCoo for 43 years!

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 09.3.13 @ 09:13am


So True, Paul, So True.

...and Florence La Rue isn't too bad on the eyes either !

Posted by Bill G on Tuesday, 09.3.13 @ 09:55am


"Unfortunately, there's something about the harmonies that doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it's the overall tone color. Not sure."

Y'know, earwax is easily removed today...(LOL)

Posted by Bill G on Tuesday, 09.3.13 @ 09:57am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgQgtYxik1I

*****The INTRUDERS- "A love That's Real"*****

A charting "B" side hit from 1967...and a recognized "Old School" classic !!

Posted by Bill G on Thursday, 09.5.13 @ 13:54pm


"You say that you are not by nature confrontational, yet, you deliberately say things that you KNOW will cause argument and confrontation .

Maybe you have another name for it.

You just HAVE to always say something negative. You can't seem to help yourself.

Nevertheless, I like The Intruders...and so do a LOT of other people ."

Actually, Bill, that wasn't me looking for an argument there. You yourself wrote: "Simply put: It's OK to express a personal opinion." and that's all I was doing. I didn't say anything about them being unimportant, unworthy, or anything else. I didn't even say they suck. I said that they do exhibit a good harmonic structure, but not one that my ears personally prefer. You can't really argue or disprove that. That was expressing a personal opinion, and not looking for a debate. Is it still okay for me to express a personal opinion? (Now that was confrontational, in response to you jumping at me simply expressin my opinion.)

Posted by Philip on Friday, 09.6.13 @ 18:08pm


"Actually, Bill, that wasn't me looking for an argument there. You yourself wrote: "Simply put: It's OK to express a personal opinion." and that's all I was doing. I didn't say anything about them being unimportant, unworthy, or anything else. I didn't even say they suck. I said that they do exhibit a good harmonic structure, but not one that my ears personally prefer. You can't really argue or disprove that. That was expressing a personal opinion, and not looking for a debate. Is it still okay for me to express a personal opinion? (Now that was confrontational, in response to you jumping at me simply expressin my opinion.)"

DUDE. Are you STILL talking about this ?? LET IT GO.


Posted by Bill G on Friday, 09.6.13 @ 19:44pm


www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkOcVALViNM

*****The INTRUDERS*****

"FRIENDS NO MORE"

From 1967

Posted by Bill G on Friday, 09.6.13 @ 20:06pm


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intruders_(music_group)

******The INTRUDERS******

From Wikipedia:


"The Intruders were an American soul music group most popular in the 1960s and 1970s.[1] As one of the first groups to have hit songs under the direction of writer-producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, they had a major influence on the development of Philadelphia soul.

Formed around 1960, the group originally consisted of Sam "Little Sonny" Brown, Eugene "Bird" Daughtry, Phillip "Phil" Terry and Robert "Big Sonny" Edwards.[2] In 1969, Sam Brown was replaced as lead singer by Bobby Starr, only to rejoin the group in 1973.
In 1965, when songwriters and record producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff first contemplated leaving the Cameo-Parkway record label to risk launching their own label, the vocalists on which they pinned all their hopes and venture capital were The Intruders. Like many other subsequent acts the duo produced, which included Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes and The O'Jays, The Intruders had already developed a vocal sound that was both theirs and uniquely Philadelphian.

Gamble and Huff's success with The Intruders helped convince Columbia Records to grant them the money to launch Philadelphia International. Gamble and Huff acknowledged that their work with The Intruders was the foundation of what they called "The Sound Of Philadelphia".

Posted by Bill G on Tuesday, 10.15.13 @ 08:35am


Philip wrote:

"Dude, I can't even make sense of what you're saying. Are you drunk right now? I seriously can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say, at least not the details. The Spinners weren't "Johnny come lately" to the sound of Philly soul. They weren't the first, but by the time Philly soul really broke through to the public consciousness, to the widest audiences, in the early '70s, the Spinners were near the front of the battle charge."

You're RIGHT. The Spinners WEREN'T the first.

The INTRUDERS were.

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 08.19.15 @ 23:26pm


******The INTRUDERS******

From Wikipedia:


"The Intruders were an American soul music group most popular in the 1960s and 1970s. As one of the first groups to have hit songs under the direction of writer-producers Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, they had a MAJOR INFLUENCE on the development of Philadelphia soul".

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 08.19.15 @ 23:36pm


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