Been on an '80s kick recently and although I'd never argue for Frankie Goes to Hollywood's induction into the RRHOF (or any music HOF, for that matter), they did cut some pretty fun singles during their mid-'80s heyday. Relax is a kick-ass workout song (Yeah, yeah, I know all about the homoerotic lyrics, but I'm not a homophobe, so that doesn't bother me). The Power of Love (not to be confused with Huey Lewis and the News's song from the Back to the Future soundtrack) is a bit sappy, but I give them credit for attempting a more traditional ballad, as opposed to the Hi-NRG stuff that was their forte. Speaking of which, the title track off Welcome to the Pleasuredome is a pretty interesting piece of synthpop with science fiction overtones

Sorry Phillip, but this is one topic I vehemently disagree with you on, that being '80s synthpop/new wave music. That era was a breath of fresh air after the '70s cock rock/arena rock/singer-songwriter pablum that was the mainstream for American music in the 1970s (Disco, glam rock, prog rock, soul, funk, and R&B being the good parts of 1970s music, obviously). You and I will always see eye to eye on 1950s rock 'n' roll and 1960s/1970s soul, though, so let's just agree to disagree on '80s new wave.

Posted by Zach on Wednesday, 08/5/2015 @ 12:39pm

No worries Zach. My hatred of the style is somewhat abated by my departure from commercial radio and not having songs I don't care for shoved down my throat as the man behind the mic. That said, I'm still opposed to Simple Minds, Thompson Twins, Human League, Bad English, Gary Numan and Tears For Fears being inducted (and still iffy on the Eurythmics). I would like to see Duran Duran get in, and while I don't support Dead Or Alive, I do love their stuff. It was so over the top that it was awesome. I have "Brand New Lover" on my MP3 player that I listen to at work. As for Frankie Goes To Hollywood... "Two Tribes" is a better song.

Where I guess I can't agree is the idea of it all being a breath of fresh air. Don't get me wrong, at times, I find the rawkists' lifeblood comical in its overcompensating machismo, but that doesn't mean this wasn't exchanging one bad idea for another. I find it almost ironic that you call it "a breath of fresh air." Music such as Frankie Goes To Hollywood's evokes a mental image of a dark discotheque, minimal lighting with flashing strobes and shooting laser-like projections of light with glo-sticks moving to the rhythm amidst the artificial fog that is piped in from the four corners of the main room. In that setting, inhalation is rewarded with the scents of alcohol, ecstasy (so much of it in the room that you can actually smell it at one point), fog from the aforementioned machines, perspiration, and the unfortunate bouts of vomit and urine from club patrons who overestimated their tolerance for liquor and narcotics. In addition to the unenjoyable nature of the evening's soundtrack, not thing one about that scenario suggests the phrase "breath of fresh air."

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 08/5/2015 @ 18:40pm

Thanks for clarifying, Philip. Just for the record, Bad English was not a new wave/synthpop band, but rather a very bland AOR supergroup comprised of former members of Journey and John Waite (of Missing You fame). They had a hit with the godawful When I see You Smile in 1989 (A horrendous year for music in general, and.one that was a far cry from the glories of the first half.of the 1980s). Perhaps you were thinking of Modern English (the band that did I Melt with You, which is a fantastic song, helped in no small part by its usage on the soundtrack to the 1983 flick Valley Girl), which was part of the new wave scene.

As I've stated countless times, I couldn't care any less who gets inducted into the laughingstock that is the RRHOF. That soulless, decrepit institution already proved themselves to be a joke when they passed over Kraftwerk, Link Wray, and The Cure (you know, acts with tangible innovation and influence) in favor of moldy oldie top 40 schlockmeisters like Linda Ronstadt, Cat Stevens, and John Mellencamp. At this point, the Hall could be demolished by King Kong and Godzilla and I would not shed so much as one tear.

Having said that, if I were a member of a voting committee for an all-inclusive music HOF, I'd certainly push for Human League (Established a danceable form of synthpop that also helped point the way towards the new romantic style), Duran Duran, Eurythmics (Their blending of soul and synthpop, to name just two styles they've touched, is remarkable in itself. That, and Annie Lennox is a damn fine singer), and Gary Numan (Injected rock and classical influences into synthpop and was one of the biggest synthpop acts in Europe in the 1980s, even if most Americans only know him for Cars, which is hardly his magnum opus). I don't know enough about Simple Minds beyond their classic Don't You Forget About Me to evaluate them fairly. I like the Thompson Twins, but they weren't as important to the new romantic scene as Duran Duran or ABC. I love Tears for Fears, but they failed to extend the promise of their first two albums into a more fulfilling career, so no to them, too.

I guess I should have elabored further in my earlier post on the breath of fresh air remark. What particularly attracts me to new wave music is that it broke with the already trite arena/psychedelic/southern/classic raawk sound to explore the possibilities of so-called "artificial" instruments like synthesizers and drum machines and inject new life into the electric guitar and other standard instruments. Bands like Blondie, The Cars, Depeche Mode, Eurythmics, Talking Heads, and The Police were all willing to take chances with different sounds and experiment with a myriad of styles without falling into one particular niche. Thus, I find the hi-NRG (yes, that is a real genre name, specifically very high-octane dance music that often overlapped with synthpop in the 1980s) production of Relax far more listenable and interesting from an aural standpoint than any Led Zeppelin or Ted Nugent macho cock rock. I find your mental iamge description rather amusing and somewhat enticing, minus the vomiting and other discharges of bodily fluids, obviously. Personally, I'd like to attend the club that plays that kind of music without indulging in all the aforementioned subtance abuse. I prefer music that's upbeat, has strong production/musicianship/vocals (not necessarily in that order), good for dancing or working out to, and appropriate for playing at social gatherings. Synthpop is only one part of that tasy, diverse menu for me.

Nevertheless, I'm glad we could have this discussion. Moreover, I applaud you for critiquing Frankie Goes to Hollywood without resorting to the vile, homophobic insults that detractors of synthpop (or new wave in general) are so fond of recycling (usually classic raawkers, metalheads, and punkers, who must apparently feel sexually frustrated and need to attack so-called "queer" music in order to reassert their alleged manliness).

Posted by Zach on Thursday, 08/6/2015 @ 01:44am

Yeah, I meant Modern English. Hate "I Melt With You."

Ronstadt is a borderline call, and I've stated repeatedly my distaste for the Cat... the only singer/songwriter less deserving/worse than him is Gordon Lightfoot. Mellencamp, on the other hand, I think was a good call. As a Midwesterner, I have a strong appreciation for working class rock and roll, which began imo with the Four Seasons, and continued through the '70s and '80s with the likes of Mellencamp and Bob Seger and Springsteen. Mellencamp captures that spirit in a different but equally effective way that Seger and Springsteen. As for Nugent, well, as a Michigander, he's my Uncle Ted. We love our Uncle Ted, Uncle Alice, Uncle Bob, Uncle Iggy, and if it wouldn't come off as racist, Uncle Stevie. Ted's definitely not the most sterling example, but I think there's a spot for him too.

I got what you meant by "fresh air" but just found it so amusing since it calls to mind a setting that will consist of the stalest air you can imagine.

As for new wave and synthpop.... it rates a big meh overall. I'm more in line with Little Steven there, and sincerely hope he remains a NomCom member. Most of the groups put out one good song, but overall, they annoy me. ABC had "Be Near Me" ("When Smokey Sings" is faithful to the Miracles' style, but I'm not a huge Miracles fan.); the Eurythmics' "Would I Lie To You" has an exciting drive to it that their other songs lack. Simple Minds' "Sanctify Yourself" has a pulse to it that isn't on life support. Thompson Twins and Tears For Fears.... eh, work on it.

It is indeed easy to resort to homophobic remarks about that overall style of music. While it isn't right, it is understandable... the correlation between the gay community at that time and the music is prominent, and continues in much of the mainstream electronica dance music. So if you hated that music, it was sadly easy to hate the gay fans by extension. Fwiw, I don't hate that music because it sounds "gay".... I hate it because, among other things, the vocals sound robotic... emotionless. I always figure the most basic and functional purposes of music is to express emotions and states of mind. What's the point of singing if you're going to be emotionless about it? And as a huge fan of soul music, I also feel much new wave and synthpop is just absent of soulfulness.

In fact, little factoid, two friends of mine had a little web series to which I lent my voice in a few episodes. I played a computer virus. An emotionless, androgynous, soulless computer virus. The voice I used was flat, emotionless, robotic. The character's name? Gnu.wav In retrospect, I should've gone Nu... a Greek letter sounds much techier than an animal... but I'll leave you to figure out I chose that character name, given the vocal delivery it used.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08/6/2015 @ 02:39am

At last, my belated reply (You are aware I've mostly abandoned FRL because of my distaste for any and all aspects of the Hall of Shame, right?).

Regardless of your opinion of Melt with You, I think it's a damn good single. Part of my admiration stems from the song's usage on the soundtrack to the 198 movie VALLEY GIRL. I'm a huge film buff and have always found that the usage of a popular song in a film can accentuate what one already likes about the song. Hell, I even started listening to Van Morrison again after Moondance was played in AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON. He's one of the few redeemable artists of the despicable singer-songwriter style (although Morrison is too broad to be categorized as such; he had more of an R&B/jazz/blues influence than the buttermilk-complexion, self-pitying types like James Taylor and Harry Chapin). But getting back to my point, we can all pinpoint at least 1 movie where we were first exposed to a song and instantly became fans. That's how I became a fan of Melt with You (I still have to check 9ut the rest of Modern English's catalogue).

That's interesting how you feel a connection with working class Midwestern rockers. I'm from north of Boston, so one would assume I'd be a nut about Boston-based rockers, right? Wrong! I do like The Cars, some of the J. Geils Band, and 1970s-era Aerosmith, but I absolutely loathe acts like Boston, the Pixies, and most recently, the Dropkick Murphys (I scramble for the remote the second a Sam Adams brewing ad comes on TV with that godawful Shipping off to Boston song). I find nothing particularly innovative or important about Mellencamp. Just a hoarse-voiced, musically simplistic Midwestern Springsteen (whom I hate as well). Using the pencil & eraser test that KING mentioned in a previous post, you could strike out Mellencamp's name from history and not a damn thing would change. Any HOF should be designed to honor the innovators, the trendsetters, and the most iconic names. For the 1980s, musically speaking, Mellencamp doesn't even belong on the same map as Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, The Police, U2, and other such notables. Mellencamp belongs more in the realm of Sheena Easton, Lionel Richie, and the Dire Sttaits, names that were popular for most of the decade or a few years but never truly defined the '80s in the same way the aforementioned names did (I'm not knocking Easton, Richie, or the Straits, just pointing out that they, along with Mellencamp, just don't have very lengthy sections in the historical record of music). Ronstadt is barely 2steps above Sha Na Na, the only difference being that Linda wasn't exclusively an oldies cover act (Although most of her hits in the 1970s were covers of older songs, not to mention she later tainted the Great American Songbook in the '80s).

I appreciate your intelligent critique of synthpop/electronica, but I must counter that the emotionless vocals were intentional. You must remember that the monster success of STAR WARS touched a new golden age of science fiction, which encompassed roughly 1977-1983/84. You had the new STAR TREK films, the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, video arcade games like SPACE INVADERS and ASTEROIDS , E.T., ALIEN, among other cultural examples. It was only appropriate that musicians attempted to corner this market, and no genre exemplified this better than the synth-based rock. Gary Numan in particular portrayed an robotic, isolated individual (sort of a robot counterpart to David Bowie's alien from the Ziggy Stardust years). But it would incorrect to assume that there were no "real" instruments among the synthesizers and drum machines. Listen to The Pleasure Principle or Telekon and you'll hear violins, violas, guitars, pianos, and drums alongside the Minomoogs and Polynoogs. More traditional instruments aren't at the forefront, but they're still there if you listen closely enough.

Another great example of a synth-oriented act incorporating something more traditional is Tears for Fears. The Working Hour (from their album Songs from the Big Chair) features a pair of breathtaking saxophone solos. The opening solo is especially beautiful in its command and melodic sound.

I'm a soul music fan but it would be erroneous to downgrade synthpop because Numan isn't as rich or soulful a singer as Sam Cooke. I evaluate both genres on musical quality, not songwriting or vocals, and I find plenty of gold in both styles.

Posted by Zach on Thursday, 09/24/2015 @ 14:35pm

Zach,

They don't have to be Midwestern, but just that we Michiganders relate to our rock heroes as uncles and aunts. It's a Michigan thing.

And of course I like a lot of music not from Michigan... in fact, I'm not even really that big of a Motown fan. I'll take Stax/Volt and Philly soul any day. Not to mention my love for the '60s British invasion, the Beach Boys, Phil Spector's Wall Of Sound, doo-wop, etc.

As far as robotic vocals, I get that they're intentional, but that still doesn't mean they're good. Admittedly, it's mostly a taste thing. As I've said, one of the major purposes of music is expression. Expression requires a passion, imo. Robotic vocals are the equivalent of talking while saying nothing. That's not to say there isn't something there, just that I'm not inclined to hold it close to the heart.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 09/25/2015 @ 00:22am

Finally someone mentioned doo wop! Thank you Philip.

I am not just a doo wop fan and I hope all of you@ FRL don't mind if I get something off my chest.

I was told by a few NomCom members that a Doo Wop group "won't sell tickets"..."not marketable" as another member put it. So these artists should not be recognized because they feel no one would pay $1500 for a ticket?

A family member was 8 votes short of being put on the ballot. He had a successful career for over 53 years until he passed in 2010. We were told it would be $25,000 for a table or as they put it "a donation" to the foundation.

What matters to the RRHOF is $$!

And Steve Van Zandt...not as open minded as you think!

Thanks FRL for letting me get this off my chest!

Posted by Annamaria on Friday, 09/25/2015 @ 11:51am

Anna Maria,
Is the person you refer to being short 8 votes to get a Rock Hall nomination Captain Beefheart (who died in late 2010)?

Posted by Nick on Friday, 09/25/2015 @ 18:07pm

Nick,
No I'm not related to Mr. Vliet. But if someone on that committee really wants Captain Beefheart in he will be in. Look at Hall & Oates. Story is that Questlove came to the meeting wearing a Hall & Oates tee shirt and they were inducted. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan. Worked at a club in NYC where they played & Daryl Hall was a frequent patron really nice guy.

It's just a shame that like everything else in life it's not what you know it's who you know. Maybe one day all of our favorites will be in and I'll stop complaining!

Posted by Annamaria on Friday, 09/25/2015 @ 18:56pm

Relax is not the only song that gets them in and to be quite frankly, it is "welcome to the pleasure dome" that should have gotten them in. Along with "two tribes".

Posted by Eddie Ganim on Tuesday, 06/29/2021 @ 21:06pm

With the exception of "Power of love" which I quite like, this band is utter dross. Keep them out.

Posted by StunningStocktaker on Saturday, 09/18/2021 @ 14:59pm