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Latest Comments

If you're looking for the latest comments and voting for the Song Project, Album Project and Revisited Projected Rankings, check out the Project Comments page.

About the 2024 Inductees, ChrisD wrote:
  @Timothy Pernell: I'm not sure what point you're referring to that's not "as simple"? Did you somehow misinterpret something? Because I'm in complete agreement that Whitney was an industry darling…who insiders liked so much they ignored her shortcomings. I mean an artist's output in recorded music is the largest part of their career composition; but you and I both know that it was artistically the weakest part of Whitney's career.

That database you've assembled, those seven of Clive's Trilby artists is enough of a precedent that would support the argument that Whitney benefitted from having him as an advocate? Or what exactly is the threshold you have in your head? Eight? Ten? One hundred?
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 16:39pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Timothy Pernell wrote:
  I saw something interesting here when running down who got inducted based on how many ballots they were on. The results are a bit shocking...and weird.

1987 - Aretha Franklin got in on her first ballot
1988 - The Supremes got in on their second ballot
1991 - LaVern Baker, the second solo female inductee, took until her sixth ballot
1993 - Ruth Brown, the third solo female inductee, took until her sixth ballot
1993 - Etta James, the fourth solo female inductee, took until her second ballot, first since the Supremes
1995 - Janis Joplin, the fifth solo female inductees, got in on her first ballot
1995 - Martha and the Vandellas took until their third ballot to get in
1996 - The Shirelles took until their third ballot to get in
1997 - Joni Mitchell, sixth solo female inductee and first since Janis, took until her third ballot
1999 - Dusty Springfield, seventh solo female inductee, took until her second ballot
2000 - Bonnie Raitt, eighth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2002 - Brenda Lee, ninth solo female inductee, took until her third ballot
2007 - Patti Smith, tenth solo female inductees, took until her SEVENTH ballot to get in, surpassed Ruth Brown and LaVern Baker for the longest wait... who knows what was the hold up?!
2007 - The Ronettes, surprisingly, were the first female group to get in on their first ballot
2008 - Madonna, eleventh solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2011 - Darlene Love, twelfth solo female inductee, got in on her third ballot
2012 - Laura Nyro, thirteenth solo female inductee, got in on her third ballot
2013 - Donna Summer, fourteenth solo female inductee, got in on her fifth ballot
2014 - Linda Ronstadt, fifteenth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot (first since Madonna)
2017 - Joan Baez, sixteenth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2018 - Nina Simone, seventeenth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2019 - Janet Jackson, eighteenth solo female inductee, got in on her third ballot
2019 - Stevie Nicks, nineteenth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot (first dual inductee)
2020 - Whitney Houston, twentieth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2021 - Carole King, twenty-first solo female inductee, got in on her second ballot
2021 - The Go-Go's, first female group to be inducted in 14 years, got in on their first ballot
2021 - Tina Turner, twenty-second solo female inductee, got in on her second ballot (second dual inductee)
2022 - Pat Benatar, twenty-third solo female inductee, got in on her second ballot
2022 - Dolly Parton, twenty-fourth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2022 - Carly Simon, twenty-fifth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2023 - Kate Bush, twenty-sixth solo female inductee, got in on her fourth ballot
2023 - Sheryl Crow, twenty-seventh solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot
2023 - Missy Elliott, twenty-eighth solo female inductee, got in on her first ballot (first female rapper)
2024 - Mary J. Blige, twenty-ninth solo female inductee, got in on her second ballot
2024 - Cher, thirtieth solo female inductees, got in on her first ballot

So running down the female inductees in the main class (30 solo and 5 groups):

1st ballot:
Aretha
Janis
Bonnie
Ronettes
Madonna
Linda
Joan
Nina
Stevie Nicks
Whitney
Go-Go's
Dolly
Carly
Sheryl
Missy
Cher
(16)

2nd ballot:
Supremes
Etta
Dusty
Carole
Tina
Pat
MJB
(7)

3rd ballot:
Martha and the Vandellas
Shirelles
Joni
Brenda
Darlene
Laura
Janet
(7)

4th ballot:
Kate
(1)

5th ballot:
Donna
(1)

6th ballot:
LaVern
Ruth
(2)

7th ballot:
Patti Smith
(1)

----
Tina WOULD seem like a first ballot inductee but the RRHOF actually nominated her first in 1987 (apparently almost doing to her what they did to Smokey Robinson). Carole King was nominated immediately after she became eligible (1989 ceremony). Of course most of the first ballot inductees got nominated YEARS after they became eligible, which is more normal than not. But yeah, there you go!
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 16:11pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, chasingwildcat wrote:
  Imagine the U.S. presidential ballots. You can choose not to vote, but every citizen should have the right to vote, regardless of whether they vote for someone, abstain, or otherwise; they should not be deprived of their ballot. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should operate in a similar manner regarding past inductees.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:43pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, willie wrote:
  What do you think Mariah Carey's ranking will be in the final voting results this year? I think it will be #9-#10, but if she doesn't even make the top ten, considering her fame and popularity, it would definitely be a very poor performance for her.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:13pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Timothy Pernell wrote:
  Oops, shouldn't have included Patti since it took until her 7th ballot. So that leaves just 7 artists who Clive actually worked with that got in on their first ballot. Add in artists he discovered, 8 (Springsteen).
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:08pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  It seems that U2 and Rem do not have power in industry as before (in their heydays), they do not even try to push their heores, JDNO and B52s into rrhof. It seems that these two big industry darlings do not care about rock hall.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:05pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Timothy Pernell wrote:
  Chris D,

Actually, that's not AS simple. For instance, Patti Smith was one of the first artists signed to Arista around 1975 (label formed in November 1974). So she'd be the first Arista artist that was inducted. Now let's run down a list of every act Clive dealt with at one point or another and the number of ballots it took for them to get in:

Clive Davis-associated artists inducted into the RRHOF:
1987: Aretha Franklin (Arista from 1980-2007) - 1st ballot (mostly from her non-Clive run at Atlantic)
1993: Sly & the Family Stone (Epic) - 1st ballot
1994: Grateful Dead (Arista from 1976 to 1990) - 2nd ballot
1995: Janis Joplin (Columbia) - 1st ballot
1998: Santana (Columbia/Arista) - 1st ballot
1999: Billy Joel (Columbia) - 2nd ballot
1999: Bruce Springsteen (Columbia) - 1st ballot
2000: Earth, Wind & Fire (Columbia) - 2nd ballot
2001: Aerosmith (Columbia) - 2nd ballot
2004: Prince (Arista from 1999-2000) - 1st ballot (mostly for his non-Clive work with Warner)
2007: Patti Smith (Arista) - 7th ballot (she was the first Arista signee to get inducted yet it took her YEARS)
2009: Run-DMC (Arista in their final years) - 1st ballot (their most famous work was not connected w/Clive)
2012: Donovan (Epic) - 2nd ballot
2012: Laura Nyro (Columbia) - 3rd ballot
2016: Chicago (Columbia) - 1st ballot
2020: Whitney Houston (Arista) - 1st ballot (second artist from Arista proper after PS to get inducted)

So judging on this list, the artists that were either discovered primarily by Clive and those discovered and with whom he worked close to that got in on their first ever ballot (either eligible or nominated for the first time ever) are:
Sly & the Family Stone
Janis Joplin
Santana
Patti Smith
Donovan
Laura Nyro
Chicago
Whitney Houston

The rest either signed with Arista in their later years or thrived after he left. Seems Whitney had a much easier time getting in than Patti Smith ever did.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:03pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, willie wrote:
  Richie

What are your early predictions for the 2025 nominees and Out of your early predictions for the 2025 nominees, Which ones do you see being inducted (If 8 inductees again)?.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 15:03pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, richie wrote:
  Timothy Pernell,

What are your early predictions for the 2025 nominees and Out of your early predictions for the 2025 nominees, Which ones do you see being inducted (If 8 inductees again)?.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 14:36pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Timothy Pernell wrote:
  Will m,

I'm with you on the Dolls.

As for Motley Crue? Yeah don't count on it especially if they don't have a lot of industry supporters.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 14:34pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Timothy Pernell wrote:
  Michael W,

I remember doing that: comparing Mariah to Bon Jovi and that didn't get a good response haha

I hate that I'm right though. :/ I did want her in it but I wanted MJB in it more so this year so meh...
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 14:33pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, will m wrote:
  I feel like we should all be extremely confident in a new York dolls Excellence or Influence induction next year. I'm 100% certain on that happening
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 13:16pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  I bet linkin park will not be nominated in 2025. Generally speaking, Coldplay has more connections, critical acclaims and almost same amount of commercial success compared with Linkin Park and Coldplay is not FYE. I do not think Linkin Park will be
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 12:50pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Alec Tess wrote:
  I have seen LP on best bands of the 2000s lists

And Hybrid Theroy and Meteora on several best albums and Rock Albums of the 2000s lists
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 12:13pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, will m wrote:
  the problem w Linkin park is I still don't think they have enough critical respect. there's like no placements on any critic lists or anything. all extremely populist. I'd imagine deftones or SOAD get the nu metal nod first. but even then I don't expect them for another 14 years
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 11:59am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Alec Tess wrote:
  Iron Maiden will return to the ballot in 2025 in 3 straight odd years like just like how Judas Priest were one the ballot 3 straight even years (2018,2020 and 2022) and for Maiden it will be (2021,2023, and 2025)

And like with Priest they are set to get the Musical Excellence route in 2025
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 11:38am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Alec Tess wrote:
  Here are some reasons I think Linkin Park will surprise us and get a 2025 Rock Hall nomination at least

1.They are one of the most successful and influential Rock bands of the 21st century so far like with Coldplay and LP has influences that go beyond Rock music and go into Pop,Rap and Electronic music some key Non Rock acts influenced or fans of them are Halsey,The Weeknd,Billie Eilish.Chance the Rapper,Tyler The Creator and Rihanna

2.The Hall even since Rick Krim and John Skyes became part of the nomination committee have been not shy on nominating acts that were massive on MTV and VH1 back in the day and in the 2000s one of the Rock acts that dominated MTV was Linkin Park

3.Like with Coldplay for better or for worse they have shaped what the Rock scene has sounded like since the early 2010s

4.Chester Bennington has been seen as this martyr figure in recent memory (RIP)

5.Recently Linkin Park has been released a bunch of unreleased songs and old demos reworked which has gone on to crack the Top 40 on the Hot 100 and have top the Mainstream Rock charts and they just released a greatest hits album from 2003 to 2023 and we could see more unreleased and reworked stuff being released as singles which could have the same impact

6.It will be 25 years since Linkin Park released their smash hit debut album "Hybrid Theroy" with their biggest song on it "In The End" so that would be cool to capitalize on that

7.Linkin Park became the first rock band to achieve more than one billion YouTube views. "Numb" is the third and "In the End" is the sixth "timeless song" on Spotify. The two songs make Linkin Park the only artist to have two timeless songs in the top ten.

8.Rage Against the Machine getting in I feel as opened up the door for them and other Rap Metal acts to be considered
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 11:28am
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  Also

Motley crue seems to have a ton of industry enemies, which may hinder their chances.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 11:11am
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  i think motley crue will wait more years

but who knows

I still predict maiden to be nominated in next year but I will not be surprised if Motley Crue is nominated in 2025
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 11:10am
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About the 2024 Inductees, xwing1212 wrote:
  Does anybody think that after Ozzy, Motley Crue could be logical choice for a heavy metal nomination? They could voted in and would be a draw to the ceremony.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 10:59am
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About the 2024 Inductees, xwing1212 wrote:
  DJ Yella (who was inducted with NWA in 2016) confirmed in a Patreon episode of "Who Cares About the Rock Hall that he no longer receives a ballot because he didn't vote for a few years.

Would the Rock Hall pull the voting privileges from Bruce Springsteen, Paul McCartney, or Mick Jagger if those guys did the same?
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 10:56am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Michael W. wrote:
  In my eyes, the issue with Mariah Carey is that, despite her immense vocal talent, she doesn't have the ability to evoke any genuine emotion when she sings. It all seems very rehearsed and disingenuous. In this regard, she is much more similar to Celine Dion than to other's in her lane. That's where Mary J. excelled over Mariah. You can feel her emotion when she sings "Be Without You" or "Just Fine". When she covered U2's "One", it felt genuine. When Mariah covers someone else's songs, it doesn't typically resonate the way the original does even though she is inevitably a more talented singer than the other person. Harry Nillson sounds far more convincing on his version of "Without You" than Mariah does on hers, for example. She can hit any note she wants, but for many people, myself included, she doesn't use that ability in a way that stirs one's emotions.

This also carries over to her public persona, where she always feels like she's trying to do and be whatever she thinks a "diva" should do and be, rather than just being herself. That can be very off-putting to a lot of people. Katy Perry is an example of someone else who comes across the same way in this regard.

That being said, she will eventually be inducted based on the sheer volume of hits she's created and the amount of influence she has on American Idol-type singers. I wouldn't presume to know what the Hall voters' rationale is regarding Mariah, but for me, Mariah's best comparison is Bon Jovi, great at making hits and probably deserving of induction as a result, but never really creating anything of substance.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 08:40am
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About the 2024 Inductees, will m wrote:
  lc,

I can definitely see that as a possibility, coupled with as ChrisD has written the very dismissive attitude of many rockiest voters, its way easier to imagine a scenario where she finishes low on the ballot. that'd align with Alan Lights statement of the top 8 being all way above the bottom 7.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 08:25am
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About the 2024 Inductees, lc wrote:
  Someone posted on Facebook, that everyone assumed Mariah Carey had the votes. So many voters felt they would use their vote to help someone else.
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 07:58am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Paul in KY wrote:
  K-Dawg, The Monkees had a Broadcasting System working with them and on behalf of them. They had Neil Diamond and others writing their songs. The guys & gals in bands that didn't have that kind of help don't like or respect that (in terms of being in Hall).
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 05:31am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Follower wrote:
  I remember someone noting the members of USA for Africa/We Are The World that are in the Hall of Fame. How about I do that now with an update?

USA For Africa members in the Hall of Fame:

01. Quincy Jones
02. Ray Charles
03. Smokey Robinson
04. Stevie Wonder
05. Diana Ross
06. Michael Jackson
07. Tito Jackson
08. Marlon Jackson
09. Jackie Jackson
10. Tina Turner
11. Bruce Springsteen
12. Billy Joel
13. Daryl Hall and John Oates
14. Lindsey Buckingham
15. Bob Dylan
16. Paul Simon
17. Steve Perry
18. Harry Belafonte
19. Lionel Richie
20. Willie Nelson
21. Dionne Warwick

USA For Africa members NOT in the Hall:

01. Kenny Rogers
02. Kenny Loggins
03. Huey Lewis and the News
04. Cyndi Lauper
05. Kim Carnes
06. Al Jarreau
07. James Ingram
08. Jeffrey Osbourne
09. The Pointer Sisters
10. LaToya Jackson
11. Randy Jackson
12. Sheila E.
13. Bette Midler
14. Bob Geldof
15. Waylon Jennings
16. Dan Akroyd
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 05:08am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Roy wrote:
  21st Century Artists Become Eligible for the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame next year!!
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 04:59am
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About the 2024 Inductees, Roy wrote:
  THE 2025 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME NOMINEES

Ben E. King
Mary Wells
The Marvelettes
Diana Ross
Chubby Checker
Judy Collins
Peter, Paul & Mary
The Kingston Trio
Jan & Dean
The Monkees
The Spencer Davis Group
Blood, Sweat & Tears
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Jethro Tull
King Crimson
Commodores
Phil Collins
Joe Cocker
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 04:52am
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About the 2024 Inductees, GuestG wrote:
  People finding out the insiders club is in fact the insiders club. I mean how else did you all expect people like Sheryl Crow, Dr John and Peter Frampton to immediately get inducted when brought up but outsiders like Kraftwerk, Dianne Warwick, Judas Preist, MC5 with better resumes could never get the amount of inductions needed? This is pretty clear indication, the voter base has to be an insane percentage of boomers

Been rumored for years so not surprising and even expected, I think part of my interest is how bizarrely it's ran like this so you root for underdogs. It just makes it funnier with how most young people don't give a shit or are just looking into this hall as a sort of interesting circus
Monday, 04/29/2024 @ 03:53am
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About the 2024 Inductees, chasingwildcat wrote:
  will m
This further shows that the Rock Hall is in a vicious cycle, becoming a game for insiders to entertain themselves. Outsiders, even those who are inductees, are much less likely to vote than insiders. As a result, their voting rights are also stripped away. This leads to an increasingly higher proportion of votes coming from insiders.

I also think this is definitely a case of discrimination. For instance, Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel—though it's unthinkable because they are the most enthusiastic and control the Rock Hall—I believe that even if they didn't vote for ten years, they would still 10000% get votes. Whereas other less known or outsider inductees might have their voting rights stripped away. Even more conspiratorially, one could suspect that the 'not voting for two consecutive years' rule is just an excuse for the Rock Hall to strip outsiders of their voting rights.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 23:16pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, richie wrote:
  Power, Mat R, Elle Dee, Plebeian, Will M, K-Dawg, Timothy Pernell and others,

What are your early predictions for the 2025 nominees and Out of your early predictions for the 2025 nominees, Which ones do you see being inducted (If 8 inductees again)?.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 22:59pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, ChrisD wrote:
  @Timothy Pernell: I would also add that having Clive Davis - the industry heavyweight that he still is with his glamorous pre-Grammy party et al - as an internal advocate most assuredly helped Whitney's chances as well. Neither Mariah nor Janet has/had that same advantage, which is why they had a harder time on their first ballot appearance. But there is no question about it that Whitney was more of the industry darling, and for a while was the North Star for Black music, ambition and representation, a position stripped of Diana Ross the moment the WH debut album became a success; but one that came with certain pressures she obviously couldn't handle. Now there is Beyonce who owns that title and has wielded it to her advantage into her forties in a way that neither Whitney nor Diana nor MJ never could.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 22:27pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  Will M

This is just too crazy. It's hard to believe. Would the Rock Hall do this to Paul McCartney, Springsteen, Stevie Wonder? I think this is discrimination.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 22:22pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, power wrote:
  No, that's not the issue. Cher was also considered a lock, so why isn't there a supposed issue where voters, thinking she's a lock, don't vote for her and instead give their votes to someone else? I think it's more that voters just aren't that fond of Mariah Carey.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 22:19pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, Will m wrote:
  The rock hall news from FRL is insane

Completely changes how we view the voting body, imagine loads of classic rockers literally can't vote for whatever reason
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 21:04pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, JE wrote:
  The possible ballot for next year's Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductions.

Returning:

Mariah Carey
Iron Maiden
Joy Division/New Order
Lenny Kravitz
Cyndi Lauper
The Replacements

New:

Alice in Chains
Bjork
Coldplay
Daft Punk
Melissa Etheridge
John Mayer
OutKast
Diana Ross
Snoop Dogg

Possible contenders for side categories.

Musical Influence: John Coltrane, Ella Fitzgerald, Dick Dale

Musical Excellence: Devo, Fela Kuti, New York Dolls, Warren Zevon

Ahmet Ertugun Award: Estelle Axton
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 20:45pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, RG wrote:
  Richie,

Bad Company
Coldplay
Cyndi Lauper
Diana Ross
Joy Division/New Order
Outkast
Soundgarden

White Stripes (if 8)
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 20:02pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, richie wrote:
  RG,

Out of your early predictions for the 2025 nominees (Bad Company, Tracy Chapman, Coldplay, Lauryn Hill, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, Alanis Morissette, Motorhead, OutKast, Pixies, The Pointer Sisters, Diana Ross, Soundgarden, War and The White Stripes). Which ones do you see being inducted (If 8 inductees again)?.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 18:31pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, richie wrote:
  RG,

Out of your early predictions for the 2025 nominees (Bad Company, Tracy Chapman, Coldplay, Lauryn Hill, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, Alanis Morissette, Motorhead, OutKast, Pixies, The Pointer Sisters, Diana Ross, Soundgarden, War and Warren Zevon). Which ones do you see being inducted (If 8 inductees again)?.
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 17:57pm
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About the 2024 Inductees, RG wrote:
  Initial 2025 Predictions:

Returning:
Cyndi Lauper
Joy Division/New Order
Motorhead
Soundgarden
War
The White Stripes

New:
Alanis Morrissette
Bad Company
Coldplay
Diana Ross
Lauryn Hill
Outkast
Pixies
The Pointer Sisters
Tracy Chapman
Sunday, 04/28/2024 @ 17:38pm
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