The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Pyramid

Over 10 years ago, ESPN's Bill Simmons¹ introduced the world to the concept of a Baseball Hall of Fame pyramid, as a way to provide relative importance to the inductees. Well, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Museum in Cleveland is already shaped like a pyramid², so it was only natural to take Simmons' baseball idea and apply it to rock and roll.

Here is Simmons' explanation of the idea (revised for Rock and Roll):

Here's the premise: In an ideal world, the Hall of Fame should be a place where someone could stroll in, spend weeks walking around, absorb everything about [rock music] ... by the time they departed, they would know everything there is to know about [rock and roll]. Well, the way the place is presently constructed, all the Hall of Famers are sort of lumped together. It's like having a Hall of Fame for models and putting Cindy Crawford's plaque next to the girl who modeled as the "Before" picture in the original "Weight Watchers" ad.
So why couldn't we transform it into a five-level pyramid -- seriously, an actual pyramid, like a replica of the Luxor casino in Las Vegas -- where elected [artists] are assigned to different levels?

The pyramid depicted above is what the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame might look like if the inductees were organized into five increasingly elite levels. As of 2012, there are 180 inductees in the performer category, which divides up nicely into 5 groups, each with multiples of 12 artists (Level 1 has 60, Level 2 has 48, etc.). While Hall of Famers have been assigned a particular level³, there is no ranking within a particular group. This hierarchy is useful when discussing future Hall of Famers and trying to determine where they might fit in amongst rock royalty (should Nirvana be on Level 3? What about Public Enemy?).

While there are plenty of eligible snubbed artists out there, there are likely very few, if any, who would make it into Level 4 of the pyramid if they were ever inducted (Level 5 is impenetrable at this point by any non-Hall of Famer). The Rock Hall rarely misses the no-brainer inductees. The inductees on Level 1 on the other hand, are often the reason the Rock Hall makes so many people crazy. If artist X is in, why isn't artist Y?

As Bill Simmons wrote in his article, it's just more fun to think of the Hall of Fame as a pyramid. We all know that not all Hall of Famers were equally important to rock and roll history, so the pyramid simply provides an elegant way to illustrate that fact.

1. Simmons shares credit for the idea with his friend Gus Ramsey and Wally Ramsey.↩

2. The architect of the Rock Hall, I.M. Pei, also designed the most famous modern pyramid, the controversial 1988 addition to the Louvre.↩

3. The hierarchy in the pyramid was primarily determined by artist rankings here and here. Feel free to argue about the order in the comments below, but remember, you can't move someone up without moving someone else down.↩

If you prefer to look at the Hall of Famers in a sortable list, here is where to go. Check out the sidebar on the left for many more excursions into wormhole that is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Follow us on twitter to keep up with everything Rock Hall related.

This site is not affiliated in any way with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation.

Comments

190 comments so far (post your own)

Public Enemy: 3
Donna Summer: 2
Rush: 2
Heart: 1
Randy Newman: 1
Albert King: 1

Posted by Classic Rock on Monday, 02/11/2013 @ 20:53pm

Posted by John R.C. on Thursday, 03/7/2013 @ 23:05pm

I don't where to post this ever since that "Current Hall of Famers" doesn't have a comments, so I have to post it here or in the "The Immortals" page. I'm coming up with a questionnaire/survey on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's inductees. You are pleased to answer anytime you want.

Here are the questions:

Posted by John R.C. on Thursday, 03.7.13 @ 23:05pm
--------------------------------------------------
1. Can't answer in seven.

2. Probably Patti Smith, though any of the acts that had one legendary hit (7 that's all) could also be placed here.

3. If you consider what the Velvet Underground did to not be metal, then the Velvets. If not them, then Hendrix, probably.

4. Simon & Garfunkel, I assume (or some doo-wop stuff).

5. Unless the answer to this is the Invisible Band, you've got a problem here. You missed question #5

6. Either Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, Roy Orbison, or anyone from Motown (remember, they were taught how to move about at high society functions).

7. Impossible to answer (aka the effects of various substances) - if you just mean flamboyant, then Little Richard.

8. Not quite sure. Heard James Brown was tough on his musicians. Guns N' Roses weren't the most pleasant of acts. The Sex Pistols took a violent stance. Metallica also, but stance is just that -stance.

9. B.B. King seems to be a gracious gentleman.

10. Too many, though I'd probably say the Stones for starters.

11. They kept Sabbath out for a while (dumb call).

12. Several, though I'll use Bill Haley & the Comets, since they're the first in line here, as I see it.

13. Run D.M.C.

14. Santana, unless you're arguing against the Mexican roots. Not too many others, outside of one or two really obvious choices. (when you say the U.K., does this include Australia? All English speaking countries?).

15. Probably 1993 (Doors & CCR), or else the first two classes (lots of 50's/early 60's favorites).

Did the management of this establishment put you up to this? :)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 03/8/2013 @ 15:51pm

Did the management of this establishment put you up to this? :)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 03.8.13 @ 15:51pm
-------------------

No, I just want to see on anyone's opinion on the Hall's inductees.

Posted by John R.C. on Friday, 03/8/2013 @ 16:03pm

Responses below... it looks like your asking only about Performer inductees, or maybe Early Influence, too.

Here are the questions:

1. Your favorite inductees (You can pick at least 7)?

-the Four Seasons, U2, the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Sam Cooke, the Drifters, Buddy Holly, Queen, Roy Orbison, Ricky Nelson, Phil Spector... I like a lot of them.

2. Least deserving inductee (anyone but Madonna, ABBA, or any Hip Hop inductees*)?

-I have to say Madonna. I think she brought so little to the table talent-wise, evolution-wise. I'm not a RAWKist, but if I obey the asterisk, I'd probably say Percy Sledge.

3. Most loudest inductee (outside the Metal genre)?

-the Who, the Dave Clark Five being a close second... despite their clean polished sound, they were loud and energetic.

4. Most quiet inductee?

-the Non-Performers? ha-ha. If Nick Drake ever gets in, he wins hands down. At present, either James Taylor or Laura Nyro...I'd say James Taylor

6. Most civilized inductee?

-I'll say Bobby Darin... never had a drug problem (that I know of), branched out into different styles, even helped his fellow performers learn how to do their own taxes during the Caravan Of Stars tours. Dick Clark would be a good call here too. Shrewd businessman, but civilized.

7. Most weird inductee?

-Hard to say... ultimately, it's really about the music and their commitment to it. Overall personality-wise, I'll say Prince. Talented as hell, but weird as hell.

8. Most mean inductee?

-I've heard stories that James Brown was a ballbuster. John Fogerty of CCR is pretty deserving in this respect too.

9. Most nicest inductee?

-This is covered under "most civilized", don't you think? But Elvis Presley was known for his kindness and generosity (up to the mid-50's)

10.. Most influential besides The Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Chuck Berry?

-Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, the Rolling Stones, James Brown, Aretha Franklin

11. Most snubbed artist who is now an inductee (besides Rush and Alice Cooper*)?

-the Miracles, the Comets, the Midnighters.. barring them, probably the Dave Clark Five and the Ventures

12. Inductee that should have been first-ballot (again, don't answer Rush*)?

-the Four Seasons, Black Sabbath, Queen, AC/DC

13. Favorite Hip-Hop inductee?

-the Beastie Boys

14. Favorite inductee outside of the U.S. and the U.K.?

-U2

15. Favorite induction year?

-Hard to say.... a lot of good years for inductions. The first few years were really good. Outside of Madonna, 2008 was a stellar year. 2005 was pretty good too. 2005, 1999... like I said, a lot of great years

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03/9/2013 @ 21:58pm

7. Most weird inductee?

-Hard to say... ultimately, it's really about the music and their commitment to it. Overall personality-wise, I'll say Prince. Talented as hell, but weird as hell.

-Philip

I'd buy front row seats for a weird off between Prince and Dr. John.

Posted by DarinRG on Saturday, 03/9/2013 @ 22:09pm

Questions 6 &7 are differnet type of questions. The "most civilized" question is mostly on how the artist acts in society or performances. The most "most mean" is on how the artist's relation to people.

Posted by John R.C. on Saturday, 03/9/2013 @ 22:25pm

My mistake, I met question 9 and "most nicest", not 7 and "most mean".

Posted by John R.C. on Saturday, 03/9/2013 @ 22:30pm

DarinRG, if you've ever seen "An Evening With Kevin Smith" where he describes his trip to Prince's home, it's epic. But I was thinking of Dr. John too.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03/9/2013 @ 23:01pm

I have seen that. Hilarious. I also love the story about a lady who got a knock on her door and when she opened it it was Pirince and another guy. They gave her a Jehova's Witness pitch and when they left they just drove off. Didn't hit up any neighbors or anything.

Posted by DarinRG on Sunday, 03/10/2013 @ 00:04am

Great survey, John! Here are my responses:

1. Based on my top 100 Favorite Artists list and looking at the ones who are in the RRHOF, I'll go with Buddy Holly & The Crickets, Chuck Berry, Louis Jordan & His Tympani Five, David Bowie, Fats Domino, Nat King Cole/The Nat King Cole Trio, and Little Richard.

2. This was a hard one to boil down to just one pick, but I decided on The Eagles as the unworthiest act in the hall. The ultimate example of a band that had lots of hits but did nothing to develop rock 'n roll (Jackson Browne, John Mellencamp, Buffalo Springfield, Percy Sledge, Laura Nyro, Donovan, The Lovin' Spoonful, George Harrison, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, The Pretenders, Neil Diamond, and Randy Newman are all runners-up for the title of least qualified inductee)

3. Little Richard, Metallica, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, AC/DC, and Van Halen would all qualify

4. Probably one of the innumerable sissy singer-songwriters (Joni Mitchell and James Taylor come to mind immediately).

5. Where's number 5?

6. Fats Domino. I cannot think of a single scandal or controversy in which he was involved, and I've never heard or read a negative word about him.

7. Grace Slick of Jefferson Airplane. Naming your daughter after a country and picking a fan's nose are the actions of a classic whackjob.

8. Diana Ross seems to be a rather unpleasant lady based on her public outbursts.

9. Fats Domino comes off as a classy and humble man in every interview and film I've seen of him.

10. Ray Charles, James Brown & The Famous Flames, Aretha Franklin, Fats Domino, The Velvet Underground, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Queen, David Bowie, Buddy Holly and the Crickets, Sam Cooke, and The Jimi Hendrix Experience are all on an equal plane of influence with those three.

11. Queen and Black Sabbath, by far.

12. Black Sabbath and Queen again.

13. Run-D.M.C.

14. 1986 and 1986. Not one bad inductee among either class.

Posted by Zach on Sunday, 03/10/2013 @ 20:08pm

Sorry i number the questions wrong so I come up with a new question for # 5:

Which performers you think will be the next inductees?

Posted by John R.C. on Sunday, 03/10/2013 @ 20:26pm

1. Your favorite inductees (You can pick at least 7)

Sabbath, Metallica, Johnny Cash, R.E.M.

-Most unworthy? Probably Percy Sledge

-Loudest? The Who, Metallica, Led Zeppelin would all rank up there. A couple others like AC/DC

-Quietest? Joni Mitchell

-Civilized? Lavish parties excluded then the guys from Queen. I've heard stories about Freddie's generosity, John Deacon was always a quiet guy who just got up there and played (doesn't do interviews anymore), while May and Taylor always come across well in interviews. Over here in Britain May has been a wildlife activist and critic of fox-hunting

-Weirdest? Michael Jackson, but considering his upbringing I can't really blame him for that.

-Most mean? Difficult to say. The Van Halen brothers managed to get rid of both their main lead singers. Axl Rose managed to alienate the rest of GNR when the success went to his head and forced them to sign over the rights to the band name. None of them were saints though. Cream's rhythm section couldn't stand each other.

-Kindest? Partially covered up there, but Tony Iommi comes across as quite humble when I've seen him interviewed. Roger Daltrey is involved with the Teenage Cancer Trust.

-Most influential? Dylan, The Stones, Sabbath, Zeppelin, The Velvet Underground, Bowie, Queen, The Miracles, Pink Floyd, James Brown

-Most snubbed? Probably both The Miracles and Sabbath. Jeff Beck as well

-First ballot? Sabbath, Queen, Aerosmith, Beastie Boys, Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd

-Non-US or UK? U2

-Probably the first class, 1986

As for who I think next year will be: Nirvana, Deep Purple (long overdue, though I wouldn't complain if KISS went instead), some combination of The Cure/Depeche Mode/The Smiths, N.W.A., Chic

Posted by Sam on Thursday, 04/11/2013 @ 12:25pm

Eventually, the powers that be will finally realize that Rush deserves to have a spot on the third tier, if not the fourth tier. People will still be listening to their music, hundreds, if not thousands of years from now.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 05/11/2013 @ 22:12pm

Rolling Stones below zeppelin and the beach Boys? Hardly... Exactly

Posted by Matthew on Saturday, 05/25/2013 @ 12:13pm

Honestly, when you're talking about those three, any order you put 'em in could be justified.

Posted by GFW on Saturday, 05/25/2013 @ 15:16pm

I blame the clowns on the committee for it - but Deep Purple should be on this list AND at level 3. What;s the first song ANY kid learns on guitar??

Posted by Dan on Wednesday, 07/24/2013 @ 17:34pm

All my earlier kidding aside, here's how I'd fix the pyramid:

Fats Domino should be moved up four rows. His influence and impact cannot be overstated, and I have the sources to back up my claims.

David Bowie should be moved up to the top of the fourth level. Very, very influential among a myriad of genres and artists. His vocal styling influenced numerous singers in the alternative and new wave scenes, from Robert Smith to David Byrne. He certainly beats U2 and Bruce Springsteen in the I&I categories.

Much as I dislike them, The Byrds ought to go to the fourth level. Their pioneering work in the folk-rock and country-work scenes is significant enough.

John Lennon should be moved way, way down. Too many people attach significance to his preaching without actually focusing on his music, which didn't exactly change the course of music. As a Beatle, sure, but definitely not as a solo artist.

Jerry Lee Lewis and The Everly Brothers should both go up in their rankings. Both are hugely important in roots rock and country rock scenes.

Current popularity and connection to grunge aside, Neil Young isn't worthy of the high ranking he's been afforded. My hatred of him is well documented, but I objectively can't see him as anything more than a lower-tier Bob Dylan.

I love Elton John, but he does not deserve to be ranked higher than Buddy Holly & the Crickets, Black Sabbath, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino, Little Richard, The Byrds, The Doors, and others who are more innovative and influential.

Lastly, I would move Big Joe Turner to the top of the first level or the bottom of the second level. As a link between boogie-woogie, jump blues, and rhythm & blues, he is a highly important name and should not be ranked lower than less relevant names like Buffalo Springfield, The (Young) Rascals, Jackson Browne, The Righteous Brothers, and Gene Pitney.

Posted by Zach on Wednesday, 10/30/2013 @ 17:40pm

Hi, Zach. After reading your comment, here's how I would fix the pyramid:

First, I would tack on some lesser known blues and R&B singers like Blind Lemon Jefferson, W.C. Handy, Roy Brown, Charley Patton, Lightinâ€™ Hopkins, Percy Mayfield, Big Mama Thornton and Cab Calloway as well as a few jazz singers like Ornette Coleman, Lee Morgan, and Bill Evens.

I would replace Percy Sledge with another soul artist like Patti LaBelle. Also, I would put The Stooges in The Clash's place.

I would also move a few artists around like replacing Madonna with some other female singer like Liz Phair or Norah Jones, moving Elton John down a rank and putting Billy Joel there, moving Sam Cooke up a bit as well as Big Joe Turner and Fats Domino. I would also move Buddy Holly And The Crickets up to the top.

For rap artists, I would get rid of Public Enemy and replace them with 2Pac or Eminem and move Run DMC and Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five up higher.

On David Bowie, I agree with you on his importance in rock and roll but, I just hate it when people glorify him as the father of glam rock when T. Rex and The New York Dolls started the movement.

I'm also with you on the Byrds being where they are.

However, I do disagree with you on Neil Young's ranking. I think he deserves the rank.

Regarding your throughts on the 2014 Nominees, I would say that the only group that I woundn't celebrate getting into the Hall would be NWA. I too personally dislike thier music except "Express Yourself" and I just don't understand why so meny praise them when all they did was steer rap down a more gangester and racist path.

Otherwise, the other groups I like althrough I disagree with you on Linda Ronstadt because I happen to like her music and her voice.

For an Early Influence, I would pick Cab Calloway or The Ravens.

Lastly, here are some of my favorite films:

School of Rock
Monty Python & The Holy Grail
All the Star Wars films
All the Lord of The Rings films
The Hobbit
The Blues Brothers
Back To The Future
Planes, Trains, & Automobiles
Monty Python's The Meaning of Life
Animal House
All The Jurassic Park films
The Outsiders
Top Gun
Saving Private Ryan
Monty Python's Life of Brian
All the Indiana Jones films
Glory
Braveheart
Aladdin
Lincoln
The Last Samurai
Kingdom of Heaven
Young Frankenstein
Rodin Hood: Men In Tights
History of The World Part 1
Ray [although I haven't seeen it yet]
La Bomba [same thing]
The Buddy Holly Story [same thing here]
The Little Mermaid
A Fish Called Wanda
E.T.
Beauty & The Beast
The Lion King

Posted by Andrew on Wednesday, 10/30/2013 @ 20:04pm

Zach, most of your comments make sense to me. Except on Neil Young, of course. It is nice to see that you can be objective about The Byrds importance although you admit to not being a fan, but I think your dislike for Neil is getting in the way of your objectivity. "Lower-tier Bob Dylan"? Who isn't? As Bob is the highest tier when compared to anyone who picks up an acoustic guitar and tries to sing a folkish tune. So that doesn't really mean anything. Young's acoustic music is only one side of a multi-faceted artist. You want to know about influence? If you would like, I can document is influence on a great many artists. Both from their own testimonies and from pointing out sonic connections.

But Neil aside, I like your other changes. And I agree on John Lennon (or any Beatle) as a solo artist. Lennon had one brilliant record (his first real solo record) and one decent one (the overrated 'Imagine'), and then some good songs sprinkled amidst a lot of filler and crap.

Posted by Dezmond on Wednesday, 10/30/2013 @ 21:45pm

Dezmond, I won't go into a full-blown rant about my distaste for Neil Young, but I'll leave you with this nugget: I can generally be objective about artists whose music I'm not overly fond of (Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan). However, when an artist offends me so deeply that I can only summon feelings of outright hatred for their music, it's almost impossible for me to maintain any kind of objectivity. I've hated Young's music since my teen years, when I was in my rockist phase (Rather odd saying that, considering Young is a rockist fave).

Since I joined RateYourMusic over the summer, I've compiled some lists detailing my likes and dislikes in music. I'm working on a list of my least favorite artists and will include commentary for each choice. Needless to say, Young will be high on the short list (I'm limiting it 10 picks, as I'd rather not expend too much time on what I loathe). When I complete the list, I'll link it here so you can read my reasons. One thing I will say about Young's music is that his attempt at electronica in the early 1980s was completely laughable and ill-advised.

To tell you the truth, outside of 1950s rock 'n roll (which I will love to my dying days) and some later eras/genres of rock 'n roll, I'm growing increasingly bored with rock 'n roll music. I quit listening to the "Classic Rock" stuff back in my senior year of high school. It's just so overexposed and repetitive that I can no longer find any enjoyment in that type of music. Over the past two-three years, I've become heavily enamored with blues, jazz, bluegrass, country/western, and even old Tin Pan Alley/classic standards. The chances of me ever getting back into The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, and their compatriots are practically nonexistent. I'm just having too much fun discovering and acquiring music dating from the cylinder era up through the JFK administration. That's at least 70+ years of music I'm combing through and constantly digging up gems. My recent finds include Whispering Jack Smith, Billy Eckstine (What a voice this man had!), and Chuck Willis.

You may wonder why I continue posting on FRL after admitting to my disenchanted with most rock music. I like to use the pages devoted to my favorite artists to inform other posters and hopefully get them interested enough in pursuing earlier eras of music. If no one here had an interest in anything earlier than the Beatles, I wouldn't be coming here to gush over Buddy Holly or Fats Waller.

Posted by Zach on Wednesday, 10/30/2013 @ 23:07pm

Most of what I would change has been listed earlier. The main ones:

1)Led Zeppelin-demote to the 4th tier. Onev word: Plagiarism.

2)The Ramones-They need to be demoted. Actually what I initially wrote about them here still works:

-"But since I'm in the neighborhood, an easy one: The Ramones. In the early 90s, by some weird quirk, the music press decided they were the great American band. Was it based on their brilliant songs? No. Was it based on their diversity and creativity? No. Their experimentation? Taking risks? No. Their overwhelming commercial success then? No again. From what I can gather, they were celebrated because they never quite made it, and because, as is wont to happen, their creative limitations were reinterpreted as a profound artistic statement. Well, nice as that was, the moment is passed, and the Ramones are virtually irrelevant to the contemporary musical landscape. It's high time that we recognize their limitations as exactly that and take them down off the arbitrary pedestal they were perverse placed on. I mean does anyone (be honest) go home and listen to a Ramones record? Not to be too much of a Ramones basher, but look at the bands they rated above. It's pathetic. And believe it or not, but I actually like them. I just never drank the Kool-aid. I like them for what they were, and not the over-hyped myth. Either the music stands up or it doesn't."

Musical understanding cannot be static. What seemed important 15 years ago may not seem as important now. The Ramones are a case in point. 2nd tier works.

3)John Lennon-Imagine being so overrated, it isn't hard to do, too much love being in the Beatles, but that should have been all for you. Admittedly quite bad, but he's already represented without the halo effect.

4)The Eagles-Should be higher.

5)Elvis Costello-Alison, and I cannot name another song. Demote.

6)Patti Smith-Why is she in the hall again? Lowest tier.

Those are the ones that come to mind.

Posted by astrodog on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 03:26am

In my honest opinion, Rush should also be placed a lot higher, at least, preferably in the middle of the 4th tier, slightly lower than Pink Floyd and slightly below, soon to be inducted, Yes.

The Moody Blues, when inducted, should sit on the 5th tier. They were the forefathers of "progressive rock," after all.

Under no circumstances whatsoever, should AC/DC sit above Rush, period. In fact, that statement is the only exception to the rule that Rush should even share the same sentence with that other band.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 09:54am

I actually think that every act up there is almost exactly where they should be.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 11:28am

"5)Elvis Costello-Alison, and I cannot name another song. Demote. "

Huh, forgot that the pyramids criteria was "how well does astrodog know the artist"...

Posted by GFW on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 14:00pm

I'd simply move all the artists out of the 5th region, and sub-let a little space for myself.

Beyond that, a proper redesigning would go something like this:

Level One: King Rootin'-Tootin' (The Three Stooges)

Level Two: Im-Ho-Tep (Boris Karloff)

Level Three: Ramses (Yul Brynner)

Level Four: Brendan Fraser (we can't really have him above anyone else here)

Level Five: All those folks on the "Ancient Aliens" Series (we'll need some laughs besides the Stooges)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 17:11pm

Hey, Zach, have you looked at the comment that I posted?

Enigmaticus, I agree with you on moving Rush and The Moody Blues up a legion on two up.

I would also put Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Mountain, and Iron Butterfly on the pyramid too.

Posted by Andrew on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 17:40pm

We need a space at the top for the Based God.

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Posted by GFW on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 18:26pm

GFW-It's simply that he was a first ballot inductee and yet looking over his discography it's quite underwhelming. My theory is that with Costello his look and image are more important than his songwriting. There are a lot of critic's darlings that fade over time. Either you have the music and the accomplishments or you don't. He really doesn't. What he has is an inflated reputation. The luxury of time is that it dispenses with the nonsense, the hipsterism, the favoritism, and leaves the music to stand on its own. I put Costello on the same level as the Pretenders, a critically loved band whose music doesn't hold up. I'd say a tier down at least.

Posted by astrodog on Thursday, 10/31/2013 @ 23:38pm

Andrew - Just so you know, this Pyramid only includes acts that are in the actual Hall of Fame.

astrodog brings up a reasonable point about Elvis Costello, especially in his comparison to The Pretenders. Both bands have always struck me as being out of place as 1st-year inductees, and it could be a case of their influence or perceived importance decreasing over time, even their induction.

I was not alive for either group's heyday, so I can't speak to their innovation upon their arrival on the music scene. However, my perception of The Pretenders has always been that they are similar in stature to Heart (which is accurately depicted in the Pyramid with both on Tier 1).

I can't say that I feel the same about Costello being even with The Talking Heads. I can name more than one song by Costello (come on, at least give him Pump it Up), but I really don't see a career that matches up well against The Talking Heads in terms of influence, innovation or popularity.

I also feel EXACTLY the same about John Lennon. The guy was a good singer-songwriter...maybe the best of the 70's, but his innovation as a solo artist was pretty much zero. Putting him ahead of bands like The Byrds, The Doors, Black Sabbath and most of the other bands on the 3rd tier is ridiculous.

Posted by BSLO on Friday, 11/1/2013 @ 10:40am

I would also move Talking Heads up to the 4th tier. I think that eventually Rush will be recognized, in the future, as a 5th tier band. But as long as they are moved up to the 4th tier, I will not be very disappointed.

As far as the 2013 inductees are concerned and their tier placement is concerned:

Rush (middle 4th)
Heart (high 3rd)
Donna Summer (middle 3rd)
Albert King (lower 3rd)
Randy Newman (middle 2nd)
Public Enemy (lower 2nd)

Thank you.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 11/2/2013 @ 11:04am

I agree about John Lennon. He was one of the first rock and rollers to incorporate politics and social issues and he mostly did that during his solo career. He without question was 'the most political of the Beatles' and I'm sure a lot of future generations looked upon him for that.

Posted by Jason Voigt on Monday, 12/9/2013 @ 00:01am

Might be interesting to some here:

http://whoisbigger.com/entity/Category:Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame_inductees

"We have developed computational methods to measure historical significance through analysis of Wikipedia and other data sources. We rank historical figures just as Google ranks webpages, by integrating a diverse set of measurements about their reputation (including PageRank, article length, and readership) into estimates of their fame, explained by a combination of achievement (gravitas) and celebrity. We correct for the passage of time in a principled way, so we can fairly compare the significance of historical figures of different eras." - See more at: http://whoisbigger.com/#sthash.msMujDin.dpuf

Posted by Darrin A on Sunday, 12/15/2013 @ 12:43pm

Gotta say, pretty bad ranking. I understand their attempts, and respect it to some degree. They're not interested in "secondhand influence" or "undercurrent carriage" of rhythms, sounds, influence or innovation. That said, the O'Jays' and the Mamas And The Papas' scores of O.000 is absolutely ludicrous, if for no other reason than saying they have no "Fame" to their name is utterly absurd. Even worse is Percy Sledge's score of 3.1 (thereabouts), and Madonna being ranked higher than the Beatles... I can forgive MJ being ranked above the King (though I disagree), but Madge over the Fab Four? Bull.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 12/15/2013 @ 17:53pm

OK, why are Frank Zappa and the Bee Gees on the same tier? That's almost obscene!

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 02/6/2014 @ 13:48pm

Favorites: Beatles, John Lennon solo, Neil Diamond, Doors, David Bowie, CCR, Curtis Mayfield, Rush, Simon & Gafunkel, Paul Simon solo,
Johnny Cash, REM, Led Zeppelin, Sly & the Family Stone, Neil Young, Pink Floyd, Bruse Springsteen.

Most unworthy: Percy Sledge, the one hit wonder whose one hit wasn't all that wonderful.

Loudest other than metal: The Who

Quietest: Musically, James Taylor. Personally, probably Jeff Beck.

Most civilized: One that was added this year, Peter Gabriel.

Weirdest: Frank Zappa by one point over Michael Jackson.

Nicest: According to an Indianapolis limo driver who interviewed with the Indpls. Star in 1972, The Jackson Five.

Meanest: Ike Turner! Just ask Tina! Although, I'm from Bloomington and John Mellencamp also has a reputation for being a legendary asshole, so he gets an Honorable mention.

Most influential besides Beatles, Elvis and Chuck:
I can narrow it down to two; Bob Dylan (every singer-songwriter since) and Jimi Hendrix (every hard rock guitarist since).

Most snubbed before finally inducted: Neil Diamond, hands down.

Should have been first ballot: Black Sabbath! They influenced pretty much all 90's hard rock and metal.

Best hip hop: Public Enemy.

Best outside US and UK: If Canada counts, then Rush, if Canada doesn't count, then ABBA.

Beat induction year: 1993

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 02/6/2014 @ 14:22pm

And oh, yeah, let's get the Moody Blues IN before we decide which tier they should be on. (I would say second or third).

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 02/6/2014 @ 14:58pm

1. Your favorite inductees (You can pick at least 7)?
Prince, The Beatles, James Brown, Public Enemy, Marvin Gaye, The Temptations, The Rolling Stones, Beastie Boys, Louis Jordan, Michael Jackson, Little Richard, Sly & the Family Stone, Frank Zappa, Stevie Wonder, Parliament-Funkadelic, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, Buddy Holly, The Miracles, The Beach Boys, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Booker T. & the MGs, Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Carole King, Run-DMC, Chuck Berry, David Bowie, The Drifters, Fats Domino, Miles Davis, The Velvet Underground and Nirvana.
2. Least deserving inductee (anyone but Madonna, ABBA, or any Hip Hop inductees*)?
The Small Faces/Faces, The Hollies, and The Ventures
3. Most loudest inductee (outside the Metal genre)?
The Who, The Kinks, Public Enemy, Sex Pistols and Muddy Waters
4. Most quiet inductee?
James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, and Linda Rondnstadt
6. Most civilized inductee?
Bruce Springsteen, Chuck D, Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield, Fats Domino and Darlene Love
7. Most weird inductee?
Michael Jackson, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Flava Flav, Prince, Frank Zappa, Dr. John, and Brian Wilson.
8. Most mean inductee?
John Fogerty (CCR), Ike Turner, Jerry Lee Lewis, Eddie Van Halen, Axl Rose, and Mike Love (Beach Boys)
9. Most nicest inductee?
Fats Domino, Smokey Robinson, Carole King and Curtis Mayfield
10.. Most influential besides The Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Chuck Berry?
Bob Dylan, Ray Charles, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, James Brown, Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson
11. Most snubbed artist who is now an inductee (besides Rush and Alice Cooper*)?
Dr. John and the Miracles
12. Inductee that should have been first-ballot (again, don't answer Rush*)?
David Bowie, Velvet Underground, Frank Zappa, Beastie Boys, Patti Smith, Joni Mitchell, Black Sabbath and The Stooges
13. Favorite Hip-Hop inductee?
Public Enemy, then Beastie Boys, then Run-DMC, then Grandmaster Flash & the Furious 5 (Cant wait to see NWA and LL Cool J get in)
14. Favorite inductee outside of the U.S. and the U.K.?
Bob Marley or Jimmy Cliff
15. Favorite induction year?
1988, 1986, 2001, 2004, 1997

Posted by Alec on Monday, 04/21/2014 @ 23:04pm

I'll play along:

Favorites: The Beatles, Elton John, Queen, CSN, Linda Ronstadt, Cat Stevens, The Beach Boys, Ruth Brown, Joni Mitchell.

Most unworthy: For me, Percy Sledge, Laura Nyro, and Del Shannon stand out.

Loudest other than metal: The Kinks

Quietest: George Harrison, John Deacon (Queen)

Most civilized: Cat, Smokey, Bruce

Weirdest: I agree with the consensus, Michael Jackson and Frank Zappa. Distantly tied for third includes Flavor Flav, Lennon ("I'm starting a new religion, and I'm calling it baggism"), Sly Stone.

Nicest: I'd like to think Buddy Holly would get this one, if he were still alive.

Meanest: Jerry Lee Lewis, Sid Vicious, Little Willie John. If we remove people who probably killed someone from contention, Paul Stanley's complete lack of grace during the induction process stands out.

Most influential besides Beatles, Elvis and Chuck:
Dylan, Buddy Holly, Led Zep, Hendrix

Most snubbed before finally inducted: Hall and Oates.

Should have been first ballot: Genesis, Black Sabbath, Queen.

Best hip hop: I don't much care for it, but even I would concede Public Enemy's suitability.

Best outside US and UK: If Joni Mitchell and Neil Young still count as Canadian, I'm going with them. Bob Marley, too. But I hope that someday Plastic People of the Universe will get in.

Beat induction year: 1986, 1988, 1994, 2014

Posted by PopeCharming on Monday, 04/21/2014 @ 23:30pm

So... when is this going to be updated?

Posted by coletrain on Wednesday, 04/30/2014 @ 08:31am

The Pyramid has been updated with this year's inductees.

Here is how the artists in the pyramid sit relative to the rest of the artists in rock and roll. " target="_blank" title="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmoY83GCEAAeR7h.jpg:medium[/img]">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmoY83GCEAAeR7h.jpg:medium[/img]

Posted by FRL on Friday, 05/2/2014 @ 08:43am

I might as well jump in on this poll:

My favorite inductees: Elton John, Billy Joel, Rush, Sam Cooke, Buddy Holly & The Crickets, Chuck Berry, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, The Eagles, Crosby, Stills, & Nash, Neil Young, Creedence Clearwater Revival, The Doors and several others.

Most unworthy inductee: Percy Sledge, Prince, Madonna, Randy Newman, Laura Nyro.

Loudest other then metal: THe Rolling Stones, The Kinks, The Who, The Stooges, Public Enemy, Dave Clark Five.

Quietest inductee: Brian May, George Harrison, James Taylor.

Most civilized inductee: Chuck D, Bruce Springsteen, Fats Domino.

Most weridest inductee: Jim Morrison, John Lennon, Sly Stone, Prince, and Michael Jackson.

Nicest inductee: Buddy Holly [if he was still alive], Queen, Roger Daltery, Tony Iommi, Fats Domino.

Meanest inductee: John Fogerty, Axl Rose, Eddie Van Halen, Johnny Rotten, Jerry Lee Lewis, Mike Love.

Most influential besides The Beatles, Elvis, and Chuck Berry: Bob Dylan, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Cream, Creedence Clearwater Revival, James Brown & The Famous Flames, Buddy Holly & The Crickets, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Sam Cooke, The Stooges.

Most snubbed before being inducted: Black Sabbath, The Stooges, Hall & Oates, Neil Diamond, Alice Copper, Buffalo Springfield.

Shound have been inducted on the first ballot: Black Sabbath, The Stooges, Alice Copper, Neil Diamond, Genesis, Queen, Velvet Underground, The Beastie Boys, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five.

Best hip-hop act: The Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Run DMC. Can't wait until 2pac and Eminem are inducted!

Best outside The US and UK: U2, Neil Young, Rush, Joni Mitchell, Bob Marley.

Favorite induction year: 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2006, 2013.

Posted by Andrew on Sunday, 05/4/2014 @ 22:12pm

Madonna should not even be there and in the pyramid's scheme she is higher that Frank Zappa and Jefferson Airplane? We are talking about Rock music here, right?

Posted by Tony on Friday, 08/8/2014 @ 17:19pm

Overrated, or too high on the pyramid: Ramones, Elton John, Little Richard, The Clash, Elvis Costello, Aerosmith, Blondie, Alice Cooper, Genesis.

Underrated, or too low: John Mellencamp, Mamas+Papas, Temptations, Frank Zappa, The Rascals, The Hollies

Posted by Bill on Tuesday, 08/19/2014 @ 19:29pm

Great concept! Like everyone else, there's a few changes I would make. The most obvious one to me is Metallica, who are no brainers for level 4 at least, and could possibly mount a case (admittedly a weak one) for level 5.

Any music released from the early 90s onwards that involves a drum kit and electric guitar has been influenced by Metallica in one way or another, from commercial/stadium rock to the most inaccessible of extreme metal. Hell, one of the most commercially successful pop-rock bands of the 21st century (Nickelback) consider Metallica as their biggest influence. Even bands and genres that would be offended by the thought of being influenced by Metallica (punk and emo, for example), are influenced by Metallica.

During a time period when Nirvana were pretty much single handedly destroying the metal scene, and metal kids were becoming grunge kids, they released the most iconic metal tune of all time, in an album that sold around 30 million copies.

It's not the first time I've seen them being underrated. I think this is perhaps because they are an entitled bunch of dicks and no-one likes them as human beings, but also because people don't realise:
a) metal is actually such a huge genre and scene, easily the largest and most enduring underground music scene.
b) every metal band post-1983 is influenced by them. Every single one.
c) their influence on guitar and drum techniques, painstaking production methods, song structure and use of electronic effects extends far, far, FAR beyond the realms of metal.

Of course, wherever they go, Black Sabbath still has to be above them. And it would be hard to fit both of them in level 5.

Posted by Donovan on Tuesday, 10/21/2014 @ 23:03pm

move to 4:
The Doors
Black Sabbath
Metallica

move to 3:
Guns N' Roses
John Lennon
Fats Domino
Ramones
The Stooges
AC/DC
KISS
Eagles

move to 2:
Ike & Tina Turner
Miles Davis
John Mellencamp
Heart

move to 1:
Dion

Posted by Paul K on Wednesday, 10/22/2014 @ 00:11am

I was reviewing a post which I had written some time ago.

I would also move Talking Heads up to the 4th tier. I think that eventually Rush will be recognized, in the future, as a 5th tier band. But as long as they are moved up to the 4th tier, I will not be very disappointed.

As far as the 2013 inductees are concerned and their tier placement is concerned:

Rush (middle 4th)
Heart (high 3rd)
Donna Summer (middle 3rd)
Albert King (lower 3rd)
Randy Newman (middle 2nd)
Public Enemy (lower 2nd)

Thank you.

Posted by Enigmaticus on Wednesday, 10/22/2014 @ 09:34am

Posted by Enigmaticus on Wednesday, 10/22/2014 @ 09:54am

I am shocked that Enig would think that "In my honest opinion, Rush should also be placed a lot higher."

Posted by Dezmond on Wednesday, 10/22/2014 @ 22:04pm

Desmond,

You were being facetious, were you not? 😁

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/23/2014 @ 09:02am

Dezmond,

You were being facetious, were you not? After all, I am a huge "progressive rock" supporter, n'est-ce pas?

Posted by Enigmaticus on Thursday, 10/23/2014 @ 09:09am

I actually think that every act up there is almost exactly where they should be.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 10.31.13 @ 11:28am

Well, if you honestly believe that the king of weepy singer-songwriters James Taylor (who has no business in any HOF other than the consignment store record bin HOF) did more to develop rock 'n roll (not rock music, that's a needless abbreviation) than The Ventures (with the exception of Booker T and the MG's, the most significant instrumental rock 'n roll band of the 1960s), then I have nothing to say (as Oliver Hardy would have said).

Posted by Zach on Thursday, 11/27/2014 @ 23:32pm

Wow, the whole 2015 class are level 1's? Green Day is maybe a 2. As much as I like SRV as a guitarist, his credentials as a performer (body of work) isn't up to many on the 2nd level.

Posted by Classic Rock on Wednesday, 12/17/2014 @ 06:51am

Where do you see the rankings for 2015 Class?

Posted by Jack on Thursday, 12/18/2014 @ 15:01pm

The Beatles should be level 0, abd Poison moves up to level 5.

Posted by Tommy on Saturday, 01/17/2015 @ 23:32pm

"I agree about John Lennon. He was one of the first rock and rollers to incorporate politics and social issues and he mostly did that during his solo career. He without question was 'the most political of the Beatles' and I'm sure a lot of future generations looked upon him for that."

Curtis Mayfield & The Impressions did it YEARS before John Lennon. Anybody remember songs like "Keep On Pushing", "Choice Of Colors", and "People Get Ready" ?

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 01/29/2015 @ 19:58pm

Good point, Bill G. Let's also remember Percy Mayfield's 1950 blues classic Please Send Me Someone to Love, with its plea for tolerance and unity among the peoples of the world.

Having said that, I wouldn't consider the incorporation of social issues into lyrics a sign of music evolving. We should be honoring those whose innovations and/or reinventions were based on how the sounds of instruments or the methods in which they were played changed, such as Django Reinhardt's one-of-a-kind gypsy jazz guitar playing or Les Paul's experimentation with overdubbing and other studio techniques. Lyrics to me are merely a supplement to music. Without music, lyrics are just words on a sheet of paper. Lennon's massive hypocrisy shouldn't be overlooked either. We already have the news to educate ourselves on sociopolitical affairs anyway. Absolutely nothing you can learn from a song that can't already be ascertained from a documentary or history lecture.

Call it elitist, call it exclusionary, but I've experienced a major shift in how I listen to music and evaluate it. Granted, I still enjoy most of the artists I've advocated during my heyday on FRL, but I simply have no time for music that overemphasizes lyrics at the expense of musicianship and technical ability.

Posted by Zach on Thursday, 01/29/2015 @ 23:40pm

When will the 2015 class be added?

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 04/8/2015 @ 15:25pm

The Pyramid Levels. Not many changes to make. I'd probably move David Bowie & U2 to 5 level. They have reached such a high level of popularity & respect. Still recording new material and performing around places. I'd push the Velvet Underground to 3. Move Fleetwood Mac to 4. Good pyramid. KING

Posted by KING on Monday, 06/29/2015 @ 01:24am

And when is Poco going to move up. Oh Wait, those dimwhits on the election committee have overlooked them again!

Posted by Scott on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 16:53pm

And when is Poco going to move up. Oh Wait, those dimwhits on the election committee have overlooked them again!

Posted by Scott on Thursday, 10/8/2015 @ 16:55pm

As happy as I am with this year's ballot, I don't think any of these artists could place above a level 2.

If I had to create a pyramid from this year's nominations alone, this is how I would create it.

Level 1
N.W.A
Nine Inch Nails

Level 2
Deep Purple
Yes

Level 3
The Cars
Cheap Trick
The Smiths

Level 4
Chic
Chicago
Janet Jackson

Level 5
Chaka Khan
The J.B.'s
Los Lobos
The Spinners
Steve Miller

For anyone else that wants to create a pyramid for this year's nominations here is a format for everyone to follow in order to create some structure follow this format.
-All nominated artists must be used in the pyramid
-Use 5 levels in your pyramid
-You can place as many artists as you want at each level, however each level must have equal to more of the amount of artists than the level before it (For example: Level 1 can have 1 artist, Level 2 can have 3 artists, Level 3 can then have 3 artists also, but Level 4 can't have 2 or less, but it can have 3 or more. You could even have 5 levels of 3 artist at each level)

The purpose of these rules are to keep it even, in order for one artist to go up a level another artist has to go down a level.

Posted by Ry Guy on Tuesday, 10/13/2015 @ 18:12pm

The first change I would make to this pyramid: Michael Jackson to Level 5, perhaps replacing Jimi Hendrix. As for the 2016 inductees, Deep Purple at Level 2, all the others at Level 1.

Posted by Joe on Friday, 12/18/2015 @ 02:56am

For what it's worth (and my guess), the levels for the new inductees would be:

Cheap Trick: Level 2
Chicago: Level 2
Deep Purple: Level 3
N.W.A: Level 2 (tough call, but Public Enemy is at the lowest part of 3, and they're about even, though PE had longer success)
Steve Miller: Level 1

Posted by SotN on Friday, 12/18/2015 @ 03:31am

Yeah, the Pyramid's bias toward 60s musicians is palpable. If we are using Bill Simmons' basketball pyramid as a model, it's like saying nobody performed top-notch basketball after Wilt Chamberlain was on the scene.

Come on guys, let's put MJ in Level 5. Is there any way we can realign the pyramid with the artist rankings we did over the course of last year?

Posted by AlexVoltaire on Friday, 12/18/2015 @ 08:03am

Deep Purple/NWA- Level 2

Everyone else- Level 1

Posted by dank on Friday, 12/18/2015 @ 18:47pm

My guess at where the inductees will end up on this pyramid:

Deep Purple - 3 (maybe 2, but I think they should be on the same level as Aerosmith and Metallica as they most likely influenced them both)

NWA - 3 (=Public Enemy)

Chicago - 2 (they are more than just a garden variety level 1 band, too many hits, if Billy Joel and Rod Stewart are level 2, then Chicago fits)

Cheap Trick - 1

Steve Miller - 1

Posted by Classic Rock on Tuesday, 12/22/2015 @ 17:32pm

My guess is NWA at 3, Chicago and Deep Purple at 2, Cheap Trick and Steve Miller at 1.

Posted by AlexVoltaire on Tuesday, 12/22/2015 @ 18:33pm

Now that the lower tiers are no longer multiples is 12, is anyone ever going to move up from 4 to 5? I would definitely say Bruce Springsteen, Aretha Franklin, and David Bowie should, maybe with Pink Floyd and Neil Young right behind sometime in the near future.

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 02/9/2016 @ 17:04pm

Come on now, update this.

Posted by Classic Rock on Friday, 04/22/2016 @ 20:34pm

Update the pyramid. I want to see Chicago.

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 04/28/2016 @ 05:27am

Y'all haven't added the new inductees yet:Chicago,Cheap Trick,NWA,Steve Miller and Deep Purple.

Posted by Robert Henry on Tuesday, 05/31/2016 @ 13:51pm

Looks like this has been updated. NWA pulls a 2 and everyone else a 1. (including Chicago)

Deep Purple a 1???

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 07/28/2016 @ 20:05pm

The Beatles 5
The Beach Boys 5
The Rolling Stones 5
The Bee Gees 2
Chicago 1

…And I agree

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 07/28/2016 @ 22:10pm

"Looks like this has been updated. NWA pulls a 2 and everyone else a 1. (including Chicago)

Deep Purple a 1???"

Deal wit' it, yo.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 07/29/2016 @ 14:35pm

Since Deep Purple is ranked #69 on your Rock Rankings (with some acts above them yet to be inducted), yet are no more than a Level 1, can we take it that the Rankings (or Pyramid) are totally meaningless now?

Posted by KXB on Wednesday, 08/3/2016 @ 12:10pm

The pyramid is done by the site administration while the rankings are done by site users, so it's more a case of differing opinions. Personally, I think they're overvalued in the rankings and undervalued on the pyramid.

Posted by DarinRG on Wednesday, 08/3/2016 @ 19:16pm

Is the top rung ever going to be added to? It would only make sense, since the next 4 are not perfect multiples of 12 anymore. I could then see Bruce Springsteen, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, and Aretha Franklin, maybe even Buddy Holly or Neil Young moving up to tier 5.

Posted by M. Scott on Friday, 09/23/2016 @ 02:41am

Is anyone ever going to move up fro level 4 to level 5? I thought the concept was even multiples of 12. In the since this pyramid was first devised the lower levels have been filled with new inductees and they are certainly not multiples of 12 anymore. By now they could be multiple of 14!

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 11/29/2016 @ 05:08am

Pearl Jam - level 3
2Pac - 2
Yes - 2
ELO - 1
Journey - 1
Baez - 1

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 12/22/2016 @ 18:38pm

When is the update?

Posted by Roy on Friday, 04/14/2017 @ 09:13am

When is this pyramid gonna get updated with the class of 2017???

Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, 07/26/2017 @ 18:50pm

C'mon time to add class of 2017 in pyramid: Pearl Jam,Journey,ELO,Joan Baez,Yes and 2Pac.

Posted by Robert Henry on Monday, 07/31/2017 @ 11:11am

That's kinda easy for most part when analyzing the 2017 class -
Electric Light Orchestra - 1
Joan Baez - 1
Journey - 1
Yes - 2 (they could be a 1 too but I like them a lot and they are one of the definitive progressive rock bands so I upped them to a 2)
Tupac - 3
Pearl Jam - 3 or 4 (there could be an argument as to why they should be a 3, but they are at least a 3)

Posted by Nick on Monday, 07/31/2017 @ 11:46am

That's kinda easy for most of the 2017 class -
Electric Light Orchestra - 1
Joan Baez - 1
Journey - 1
Yes - 2 (they could be a 1 too but I like them a lot and they are one of the definitive progressive rock bands so I upped them to a 2)
Tupac - 3
Pearl Jam - 3 (there could be an argument as to why they should be a 4, but they are at least a 3)

Posted by Nick on Monday, 07/31/2017 @ 11:48am

Where do you think 2018’s nominees would belong on the pyramid? Most of them look like 1’s or 2’s.

The Meters - 1

Posted by Tyler on Friday, 10/6/2017 @ 12:50pm

The pyramid hasn’t been updated with last year’s inductees, but here is my take on 2018:
The Cars - 1
Bon Jovi - 1
Dire Straits - 1
Moody Blues - 2
Nina Simone - 1

Posted by Classic Rock on Thursday, 01/25/2018 @ 16:33pm

When you look at it this way, it's not an especially inspired class, is it? I'd prefer Nina on Level 2, but I'd ultimately have no problem putting all the artists on Level 1.

Posted by AlexVoltaire on Thursday, 01/25/2018 @ 23:09pm

Agreed. But if there was an "Early Influences" pyramid, then Sister Rosetta Tharpe would at least be a 4.

Posted by The_Claw on Friday, 01/26/2018 @ 04:11am

The 2017 and 2018 inductees are not in the pyramid yet!

Posted by Roy on Friday, 01/26/2018 @ 07:27am

And here is my opinion about the position of the 2018 inductees:

The Cars- 3
Bon Jovi- 1
Dire Straits- 2
The Moody Blues- 5
Nina Simone- 4
Sister Rosetta Tharpe- 5

And from 2017:

Yes- 4
Electric Light Orchestra- 3
Joan Baez- 4

From 2016:

Deep Purple- 4
Chicago- 4

From 2013:

Heart- 4
Rush- 4
Donna Summer- 4

Posted by Enigmaticus on Saturday, 01/27/2018 @ 05:22am

Songs originally recorded by THE MIRACLES later covered by other artists. From Wikipedia:

The Miracles, Motown's first group, are the most covered Motown group of ALL TIME. Their music and songs have influenced artists all over the world – in every major musical genre – over the last 50 years. Almost all of their hits were self-written, making them unique among Motown acts. Many of the Miracles' songs have been major hits or important recordings for other artists. Among these are:

(This is an incomplete list, as songs by the Miracles continue to be covered by more artists each year)

"Going to a Go-Go" – The Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, The Hags, and Secret Affair.

"I Second That Emotion" – Japan, Michael McDonald, Kiki Dee, The Manhattan Transfer, Jerry Garcia, Diana Ross & the Supremes with the Temptations, 10db, Tammy Wynette, José Feliciano, Emilie, Stuck In The Middle, Thelma Jones.

"(Come 'Round Here) I'm The One You Need " – The Jackson 5, The Cowsills, The GP's

"If You Can Want" – The Dirtbombs, Barbara McNair, Chazz Dixon.

"Nowhere To Go- Kanye West (as the basis of his song "About An Angel"), Beanie Sigel (as "Got Nowhere"), Freeway

"Much Better Off" – J Dilla.

"You've Got The Love I Need" - J Dilla, Raekwon.

"A Legend In Its Own Time" – J Dilla (as an exercept of his song "One Eleven").

"Oh Be My Love"- Barbara Lewis, The Supremes, Barbara McNair.

"I Don't Blame You At All" - Rosetta Hightower.

"Mighty Good Lovin"-Edwin Starr, Chris Clark.

"You're So Fine and Sweet" - The Undertakers.

"I Like It Like That" (Miracles song)- Bobby Vee, Mitch Ryder & the Detroit Wheels.

"Would I Love You" - Len Barry.

"Happy Landing" - The Temptations.

"Special Occasion - Jim Gilstrap.

"I'll Try Something New" – Diana Ross & the Supremes with the Temptations, Barbara McNair, A Taste of Honey, Spyder Turner (as an excerpt from his cover of "Stand By Me")

"My Girl Has Gone" – Etienne Daho, Bobby Taylor, Edwyn Collins, Ken Parker.

"Yester Love" – Gerald Wilson & His Orchestra.

"The Love I Saw In You Was Just a Mirage" – The Jackson 5, Vance Gilbert, The Uniques

"Love Machine" – Wham!, Thelma Houston

"Determination" – The Contours.

"Choosey Beggar" – Chazz Dixon, Debby Boone.

"I've Been Good To You" – Marshall Crenshaw, Brenda Holloway, Joe Meek, The Temptones, Ray, Goodman & Brown (The Moments), The Ones, The Temptations.

"Mickey's Monkey" – Mother's Finest, Martha and the Vandellas, The Supremes, The Hollies, The Young Rascals, John Mellencamp, Lou Christie, Cannibal & the Headhunters, The C.A.Quintet, The Defenders, Chris Catena, The Sugar Beats, The Mac Truque.

"More Love" – Kim Carnes, Paul Young, Barbara McNair, Mica Paris, The 5th Dimension, Rick Webb, Foster Sylvers.

"Ooo Baby Baby" – Linda Ronstadt, Brenda Holloway, Shalamar, Ruby Turner, Sylvester, Spirit Traveler, Five Stairsteps, Zapp, Laura Nyro, Ella Fitzgerald, Honey Cone, Human Nature, Fingazz

"Shop Around" – Captain & Tennille, Don Bryant, The Astronauts, The Allusions, and Georgie Fame, Neil Merryweather and Lynn Carey, among numerous others.

"The Tears of a Clown" – La Toya Jackson, The Beat, The Rocking Chairs, The Re-Bops, Nnenna Freelon, The Flying Pickets, Caligula, Human Nature, Enuff Z'Nuff, Eumir Deodato, Brian Ray, Marc Cohn, Phil Collins.

"The Tracks of My Tears " – Linda Ronstadt, Aretha Franklin, Johnny Rivers, Gladys Knight & the Pips, Mongo Santamaría, Martha and the Vandellas, Bryan Ferry, Björns Vänner (as Ser Jag Ut Att Må Bra?), Dolly Parton, Boyz II Men, Human Nature, among many others

"Darling Dear" – The Jackson Five.

"Who's Loving You" – The Jackson 5, En Vogue, Terence Trent D'Arby, Brenda Holloway, The Supremes, The Temptations, Honey Cone, Stevie B., Archie Bell & the Drells, Nikka Costa.

"You've Really Got a Hold on Me" – Percy Sledge, Barbara McNair, The Beatles, The Temptations, The Supremes, The Zombies, Aidan Smith, Sonny & Cher, Mickey Gilley, Eddie Money, Cyndi Lauper, The Bobs, Greg Brown, Small Faces, Bobby McFerrin, Derrick Harriott, UFO8, and She & Him among many others.

"I Gotta Dance to Keep From Crying" – The Who, Jimmy James.

"From Head to Toe" – Elvis Costello, Chris Clark

"A Fork in the Road " – Rebbie Jackson

"Way Over There" – The Royal Counts, The Temptations, Edwin Starr, The Marvelettes, New Man, Eddie Adams Jr.

"(You Can't Let the Boy Overpower) The Man In You" – Chuck Jackson

"What's So Good About Goodbye" – Giant Sunflower, The Temptations, Quix*O*Tic

"More, More, More of Your Love" – Bob Brady & the Con Chords

"Doggone Right" – Bobby Davis.

"After All" – The Supremes, The Marvelettes.

"Swept For You Baby" – The Sylvers, The Blenders, The Tamlins (as Sweat For You Baby).

"The Hurt is Over" – The DT's

"Whatever Makes You Happy"- Jacki Gore, Steve Washington.

"Save Me" – The Undertones

"(You Can) Depend On Me" – The Temptations, The Supremes, Mary Wells, Brenda Holloway, Barbara Mason.

"Baby Baby Don't Cry" – Gerald Wilson and His Orchestra, Projekt.

"Can You Love a Poor Boy" – Bobby Vee, Softones, Gil Bernal, Ronnie Walker.

"Bad Girl" – Dazz Band.

"That's What Love Is Made Of" – Michael Jackson, Bobby Vee, Choker Campbell, The Magicians.

"We've Come Too Far To End It Now"-The Escorts

"Here I Go Again" – Chazz Dixon, Carey Bell, A.J. De Bravo, Little Willie G., Oran "Juice" Jones.

"Point It Out"' – The Supremes and The Temptations.

"Got A Job" – The Marcels

"Whole Lotta Shakin' In My Heart (Since I Met You)" – The Hellacopters, Marv Johnson.

"Give Me Just Another Day" – Young Jeezy (as the basis for his song, "Mr 17.5"), Schoolboy Q, Wade Waters, Christina Milian, Rick Ross, Marco Polo feat. Torae, and others.

"Do It Baby"- Jimmy Ponder, Red Holt (of Young-Holt Unlimited).

"Who's Gonna Take The Blame" – Capone N. Noreaga (as the basis of their song "Live On Live Long").

"Come On Do The Jerk" – The Righteous Brothers , The T-Bones

"Don't Let It End (Till You Let It Begin)-Betty Everett .

Level 3 ?? HARDLY !! At LEAST LEVEL 4 !!

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 02/26/2018 @ 01:01am

This website really needs to update the rock hall pyramid.

It needs to have ELO, Joan Baez, Yes, Tupac Shakur, Journey, Pearl Jam, Bon Jovi, Dire Straits, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Nina Simone and Moody Blues.

Posted by Kyle on Monday, 04/23/2018 @ 05:37am

Rosetta was put in as an Early Influence, but I get what you mean; man, they really let some of these sections go to waste!

Posted by EDS on Saturday, 05/5/2018 @ 16:49pm

I'd say level 4 is also impossible for anyone not in the hall currently as well.

Posted by Follower on Wednesday, 08/22/2018 @ 19:01pm

The Rock Pyramid is missing the class of 2017 and 2018 inductees.

This need to be updated.

Posted by Kyle on Saturday, 09/8/2018 @ 20:45pm

Is anyone ever going to be added to that top rung? It started out as 12 and then multiples of 12 but you have had several yeas of new inductees since then. The ones who should move up? Bowies, Springsteen, Aretha (at least!)

Posted by Scotty Mac on Friday, 09/14/2018 @ 23:07pm

ELO, Joan Baez, Yes, Tupac Shakur, Journey, Pearl Jam, Bon Jovi, Dire Straits, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Nina Simone, Moody Blues.

On which levels do you think each of these artists belongs?

Posted by Tommy Wimmer on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 01:42am

ELO, Joan Baez, Yes, Tupac Shakur, Journey, Pearl Jam, Bon Jovi, Dire Straits, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Nina Simone, Moody Blues.

On which levels do you think each of these artists belongs?

Posted by Tommy Wimmer on Monday, 09.24.18 @ 01:42am

----------------------------------------------

IMO

Level 3

Tupac Shakur
Pearl Jam

Level 4

ELO
Nina Simone
The Cars
The Moody Blues
Yes

Level 5

Bon Jovi
Dire Straits
Joan Baez
Journey

Sister Rosetta Tharpe doesn't count because she's an Early Influence inductee which was not taken into account on this pyramid.

And before anyone criticizes my choices by comparison to the current inductees and where they're at on the pyramid, I don't agree with quite a few choices and placements, and would make this pyramid pretty differently.

Posted by Donnie on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 03:18am

Pearl Jam and Nina Simone are borderline Level 2/3 acts, in my opinion. 2Pac is probably Level 2.

Everyone else in that lot is pretty clearly Level 1 to me. Except perhaps Bon Jovi, which I would put in the sub-basement if it were within my power to do so.

Posted by AlexVoltaire on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 10:45am

Wait, you'd put Bon Jovi and Journey in the top tier with the Beatles? According to the picture, that's where Level 5 is. I assumed you meant the bottom, but I don't wanna put words in your mouth. Just asking for clarification.

And if you did mean the bottom tier, I'm a little surprised putting Joan Baez down there. Just being a major influence on Bob Dylan alone, and really almost the entirety of folk-rock should at the very least put her midway up, probably higher, imho.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 10:50am

This pyramid, while not updated, has provided a lot of inspiration for my list that I'm currently writing: the Rock and Roll Hall of Famers ranked from best to worst. The comments in this section have also been helpful, and of course, my own personal opinions, tastes and whatnot. It's taking a lot longer than I thought to compile the list, so stay tuned.

Posted by Jason Voigt on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 16:47pm

Jason Voigt,

All I ask is that you don't put Bon Jovi or Journey in last place.

Posted by Follower on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 17:52pm

Both will be smack-dab in the middle

Posted by Jason Voigt on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 17:56pm

Yeah Phillip, you're right. I got it mixed up. I could have sworn it was the other way around.

Revising lol,

Level 3

2Pac
Pearl Jam (they stay the same, I meant for them to be in the middle)

Level 2

ELO
Nina Simone
The Cars
The Moody Blues
Yes

Level 1

Bon Jovi
Dire Straits
Joan Baez (and yes, I'd still put her in the bottom rung, though she'd be closer to the top of that bottom rung)
Journey

Posted by Donnie on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 22:34pm

Level 3:
Pearl Jam

Level 2:
Tupac
Nina Simone
Joan Baez
The Cars
The Moody Blues

Level 1:
Dire Straits (borerline 1/2)
Yes
ELO
Journey
Bon Jovi (while not a critical favorite, the band is still selling well into the new 10's)

Joan Jett is currently in last place for her solo career. Even if she directly influenced the Riot Grrl scene.

Posted by Yours Truly on Monday, 09/24/2018 @ 22:40pm

I meant *borderline. Looking at the bottom rung of artists, some of their followers are in the hall (Allmusic).

Percy Sledge: Influenced Al Green and the Allman Brothers Band.
Righteous Brothers: Influenced Hall & Oates, Laura Nyro, and Paul Simon.
Journey: Influenced Bon Jovi.
Laura Nyro: Influenced Billy Joel.
Little Anthony: Influenced Donna Summer.
Gene Vincent: Influenced The Beatles, The Clash, Jeff Page and Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin).
Frankie Lymon: Influenced Stevie Wonder, Jackson 5, Beach Boys, and The Miracles.

Posted by Yours Truly on Tuesday, 09/25/2018 @ 14:24pm

I meant Jeff Beck.

Posted by Yours Truly on Tuesday, 09/25/2018 @ 17:10pm

Sex Pistols should be moved way up, I’d put them at level one in my opinion. They’re not even one of my favorite bands, but with one album they changed the genre of punk and did more for the British music scene than bands like Yes could ever dream of doing.

As for the newer inductees,

Tier 3 - Tupac Shakur, Pearl Jam
Tier 2 - Dire Straits, The Cars, Yes, ELO
Tier 1 - Nina Simone, Bon Jovi, Journey, Joan Baez

Bon Jovi would, naturally, be closer to the bottom

Posted by Tyler Partnow on Tuesday, 09/25/2018 @ 20:19pm

Sorry but the Sex Pistols are way overrated. I know, they did it with the strength of ONE album. Whoopee. Sure, they influenced Green Day and some others. Because of the lamestream press' overhype of the Pistols, several people actually think they started punk rock, which of course they didn't. (Believe me, people I've talked to actually think that!) But, to each their own. This is what this site is partly for, to share opinions and all.

Posted by Jason Voigt on Wednesday, 09/26/2018 @ 14:03pm

The Miracles should be at Level 4. They were the FIRST Motown group. Heck...the first Motown act, PERIOD. The one who opened the doors for all of the OTHERS...most of whom THEY wrote songs for.
They were the VANGUARD ACT of Berry Gordy's Motown empire.
Rolling Stone Magazine recognizes The Miracles' importance: They are the HIGHEST-RANKING Motown group in their list on their list of the
"100 GREATEST ARTISTS OF ALL TIME".
They are also the MOST-COVERED Motown act of all time...and have the MOST Grammy Hall of Fame-inducted songs of ANY Motown group...and have the MOST SONGS on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's list of "The 500 Songs That Shaped Rock and Roll".
NO WAY should they just be at Level 3.

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 10/23/2018 @ 14:25pm

Bill G.,
Amen and speak the truth! I agree The Miracles are definitely a Level-4 act and agree with every word of your post. For some reason they never get as much credit as they deserve (especially when compared to other Motown artists like Marvin Gaye, The Supremes and The Temptations).

Posted by Nick on Tuesday, 10/23/2018 @ 15:29pm

The 2018 Class are probably all tier 2's, except for Radiohead, which is a three or possibly even a four.

Posted by Follower on Friday, 12/14/2018 @ 00:18am

Happy New Year! The pyramid has been updated with the latest inductees. Have at it.

Posted by FRL on Tuesday, 01/1/2019 @ 10:05am

I agree with all the placements this year except Radiohead. Look at the artists in group 3 and then where Radiohead is in group 4. Radiohead belongs in 3, not 4.

Posted by Classic Rock on Tuesday, 01/1/2019 @ 10:57am

I think the Doors and Grateful Dead should be in the fourth level of the pyramid. Nirvana and Radiohead belongs in the third.

Posted by The Dude on Tuesday, 01/1/2019 @ 14:24pm

How about a pyramid for the Early Influence category, with Wanda Jackson and Freddie King as a 1 because they never should have been inducted in that category?

1986 Jimmie Rodgers
1986 Jimmy Yancey
1986 Robert Johnson
1987 Louis Jordan
1987 T-Bone Walker
1987 Hank Williams
1988 Woody Guthrie
1988 Lead Belly
1988 Les Paul
1989 The Ink Spots
1989 Bessie Smith
1989 The Soul Stirrers
1990 Charlie Christian
1990 Louis Armstrong
1990 Ma Rainey
1991 Howlin' Wolf
1992 Elmore James
1992 Professor Longhair
1993 Dinah Washington
1994 Willie Dixon
1995 The Orioles
1996 Pete Seeger
1997 Mahalia Jackson
1997 Bill Monroe
1998 Jelly Roll Morton
1999 Bob Wills & His Texas Playboys
1999 Charles Brown
2000 Nat King Cole
2000 Billie Holiday
2009 Wanda Jackson
2012 Freddie King
2015 The "5" Royales
2018 Sister Rosetta Tharpe

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 01/1/2019 @ 20:35pm

To those who don't feel like looking, Radiohead is a 4, 2Pac is a 3, Pearl Jam, The Cure, Janet Jackson and Roxy Music are 2s, and everyone else is a 1.

Posted by Follower on Wednesday, 01/2/2019 @ 04:20am

There needs to be slightly more room in the 5 space, cause Bowie is 100% a 5. If someone HAD to go for him, it would probably be Ray Charles. I don't see the influence or quality, honestly. At all. Bowie is so upstream of many, many acts. And I'd love to invent a 0 just for Def Leppard. Yes, it's personal.

The person who said The Moody Blues were a 5, c'mon. Seriously? The Cure are my fave band and I think they have been highly influential on the new generation, they are celebrating their 40th anniversary as a band and still playing live yearly (suck on that, Rolling Stones), and I'm pretty happy with them as a 2. I'd rather they be a 3, but a lot of those 3s are untouchable. If anything, some of them deserve to be a 4. I still question that there isn't more room in each rung, there should be more room added with each class. If I were to drop anyone it would be The Beastie Boys, or Elvis Costello. I don't think either of them have been as influential, but obviously that's my biggest criteria. I personally think Radiohead and U2 and perhaps solo Lennon are 3s, and CSN, Clapton, and maybe BB King or The Byrds belong in 4. And Green Day and Pearl Jam are 100% 1s if I've ever seen one.

Posted by Gary on Friday, 01/4/2019 @ 18:23pm

Gary - "quality" is a matter of taste, and if you don't like Ray Charles' music, there's no argument to be made over that. You like what you like.

"Influence" is not really a matter of opinion. Proper evaluation of influence can certainly be biased by opinion; but overall it is rather easy to research to see historically the impact an artist had by tracking musicians that copied them, or directly cite them as major influences.

In the case of Ray Charles, the musical influence he had is so massively widespread across multiple genres, so well documented, and seemingly so obvious to the ears of anybody with half a musical ear who takes the time to actually listen to what popular music sounded like before he began having hits and what it sounded like after those hits; that your statement that you "don't see the influence" marks you as either too historically uneducated or too biased by your tastes to really be a serious participant in evaluating such topics of discussion.

Posted by Shrek on Friday, 01/4/2019 @ 18:59pm

Thanks, SHREK, for your bullshit opinion. I didn't ask for it. My point is that there are many other people who influenced the influencers farther down on the pyramid. I meant the DIRECT influence on later generations of rockers from people who were rockers themselves. The people at the top are more of the big timers, to me. The people who made a name IN Rock and Roll. Ray Charles didn't make his name in Rock and Roll. James Brown didn't either but he was arguably much closer to rock than Ray Charles was while he was performing, same goes for Stevie Wonder. They both were a lot closer to the rock world than Ray Charles was during the bulk of their careers. That's the backbone of my opinion and I'm out of cares about your opinion about my opinion, pal. Like it or lump it, your shit still stinks just like the rest of ours.

Posted by Gary on Saturday, 01/5/2019 @ 04:20am

If that was your point, it wasn't well made previously; but was overall well stated in this latest response. Despite the juvenile attacks, this argument you have made is much more interesting. I can agree that, despite the deep and wide influence he had on many Rock stars, that Ray Charles himself was never marketed as or claimed to be a Rock and Roll performer. He was a musical revolutionary for whom the record industry had to create new marketing terms to describe. He wound up avoiding being lumped in to any Rock and Roll labeling likely because he was being marketed to a wider and more mature audience than the industry was marketing towards for the acts that got lumped into the early Rock and Roll label.

Aside from that, I don't recall claiming that my shit doesn't stink; that would be very much unlike me. My occasional communication efforts within this forum is generally framed around acknowledging my own biases and attempting to subvert them for more rationale dialog.

Posted by Shrek on Monday, 01/7/2019 @ 13:23pm

Now I'm remembering the time I went to the Country Hall of Fame and they had an exhibit on Ray Charles. (It's because he covered a lot of country songs in his career.) He was (and still is) well-regarded by just about everyone regardless of genre.

Posted by Follower on Monday, 01/7/2019 @ 21:17pm

Is there anyone not in the Hall who could be a 4?

Posted by Follower on Friday, 01/11/2019 @ 18:37pm

@ Follower

If Liny Wray was inducted, he would be on four.

Posted by The Dude on Friday, 01/11/2019 @ 18:40pm

*Link Wray

Posted by The Dude on Friday, 01/11/2019 @ 18:43pm

Not really. There's no way he's a bigger deal than Cream, The Band, The Doors, Black Sabbath, The Police, Jerry Lee Lewis, CSN, Metallica or Aerosmith.

Posted by Follower on Friday, 01/11/2019 @ 18:50pm

Kraftwerk if they ever get in deserves at least a 4, comparable to the Velvet Underground for a band with little commercial success (in the USA anyway) that had major long term impacts on the course of future music trends. Argument could be made for a level 5, on the par with James Brown for a mid-career musical reinvention that created a brand new major genre.

Posted by shrek on Friday, 01/11/2019 @ 20:45pm

You know what, I think I try to revise Simmons' level description for Rock and Roll. Let me know if my analogies don't work as well.

Level 1:
Ground floor of The Pyramid. Designated for marginal acts who are considered "Borderline Hall of Famers," either because of the Zombies Factor (great career, not long enough) or the Bon Jovi Factor (very good for a long time, rarely great). Anyone voted in simply because they reached a benchmark (sold lots of records, had a lot of hits, etc.) would be thrown in here. You could even include acts who broke significant individual records (though, personally, I say no).

Level 2:
Second floor of The Pyramid. Not quite as cluttered, not as much space. Reserved for acts who are definitely Hall of Famers, but don't quite possess a Level 3 résumé for one or more of the following reasons:

They were rarely acclaimed critically and/or commercially.
Something was missing from their career totals.
They never put out more than one outrageously good record.
Somebody else played their brand of rock and roll around their time who was better.
Their career ended through poor records and/or changing tastes.

Level 3:
Reserved for the "No-Doubt-About-It" Hall of Famers, these guys were undoubtedly the best at their position for years and years, with all the requisite "résumé" stats to match.unfortunately, there's a distinct, crucial difference between Level 3 and Level 4 (explanation coming).

Level 4:

These are basically "L3" guys, only there's something just inherently "greater" about them. Some possible indications:

Do you have to consider them in any "best of all-time" discussions?
Did they have transcendent songs and albums or memorable moments?
Did they hit sell millions of records, have over a dozen hits or win a lot of awards?
Were they just dominant at times?
Will you always remember seeing them in concert, even when you're 80 years old and peeing on yourself?

Level 5:
Take a deep breath. Level 5 is the top of the pyramid, literally and figuratively. You can rattle the L5 guys off the top of your head: The Beatles. Elvis Presley. James Brown. Ray Charles. Chuck Berry. Bob Dylan. Led Zeppelin. Stevie Wonder. Jimi Hendrix.
That's Level 5. The best of the best.

Posted by Follower on Saturday, 01/19/2019 @ 16:38pm

Oops. I forgot to factor influence. Replace "Were they just dominant at times?" to "Did they influence a lot of acts afterwards?"

By the way, do you guys think I was right in picking The Zombies and Bon Jovi (both level 1) for "great short career" and "very good long career" or would other acts fit those terms better?

Posted by Follower on Sunday, 01/20/2019 @ 15:23pm

Well, it's no longer multiples of twelve and hasn't been since the first year.
Is the top level EVER going to have more than twelve? I'd at least move up Aretha, the Boss, and Bowie

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 04/2/2019 @ 14:50pm

And how in the hell did Radiohead get on level 4? They are a 2 at best.

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 04/2/2019 @ 14:58pm

Radiohead is widely considered the most influential and important act since Nirvana. Clearly, you have not been listening to much indie music or Radiohead over the last twenty years.E

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 04/2/2019 @ 15:24pm

Radiohead have been called the last important rock band by tons of people. Tier 4 is their place.

As Bill Simmons said in his original article though, this is subjective. Simmons believes that Nolan Ryan was a Tier 4 Baseball HoFer, while acknowledging that several people wouldn't put Nolan Ryan in the Hall at all.

Posted by Follower on Tuesday, 04/2/2019 @ 18:34pm

it's 2019 and theAMAZINGcool is making a TRIUMPHANT return !!!

Posted by theAMAZINGcool on Friday, 04/19/2019 @ 07:36am

"Bill G.,
Amen and speak the truth! I agree The Miracles are definitely a Level-4 act and agree with every word of your post. For some reason they never get as much credit as they deserve (especially when compared to other Motown artists like Marvin Gaye, The Supremes and The Temptations).

Posted by Nick

Thanks very much for your kind words , Nick !!

And to all of the rest of you, whether you are Miracles fans or NOT:
I'm sure that you all accept that INFLUENCE is one of the most important factors in Musical Greatness. It's that "X" Factor that separates true legends from also-rans.The Men from the Boys. Rock Hall inductees from wanna-bes .
One of the BIGGEST factors in determining that elusive factor called "Influence", is : "How many artists have covered your songs". And HERE is where THE MIRACLES SHINE : THEY ARE SIMPLY, THE MOST-COVERED MOTOWN GROUP....AND MOTOWN ACT, PERIOD...OF ALL-TIME !!
Look at this list of artists that have COVERED The MIRACLES' SONGS...and tell me that they DON'T belong at level 4: From Wikipedia:
"Commenting to Rolling Stone Magazine, Bob Seger said: "I used to go to the Motown Revues, and the Miracles always closed the show. They were that good, and everybody knew it."[9] Producer Quincy Jones called the group the "Beethovens of The 20th Century" due to their songwriting talents. In addition, the Miracles have been regarded as the most covered act in Motown's roster and have influenced numerous artists worldwide in the last 50 years.

The success of the Miracles actually launched the Motown Records label, and, according to Motown Records founder, Berry Gordy, without the Miracles,the Motown Record Corporation would not have been possible."
"According to several websites, the Miracles are one of the most oft-covered groups in recorded history and the most covered Motown group ever. Their music and songs have influenced artists all over the world – in every major musical genre – over the last 50 years .[1] They also have the distinction of having more songs inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame than any other Motown group."

The Miracles, Motown's first group, are the most covered Motown group of all time. Their music and songs have influenced artists all over the world – in every major musical genre – over the last 50 years. Almost all of their hits were self-written, making them unique among Motown acts. Many of the Miracles' songs have been major hits or important recordings for other artists. Among these are:

(This is an incomplete list, as songs by the Miracles continue to be covered by more artists each year)

"Going to a Go-Go" – The Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, The Hags, and Secret Affair.

"I Second That Emotion" – Japan, Michael McDonald, Kiki Dee, The Manhattan Transfer, Jerry Garcia, Diana Ross & the Supremes with the Temptations, 10db, Tammy Wynette, José Feliciano, Emilie, Stuck In The Middle, Thelma Jones.

"(Come 'Round Here) I'm The One You Need " – The Jackson 5, The Cowsills, The GP's

"If You Can Want" – The Dirtbombs, Barbara McNair, Chazz Dixon.

"Nowhere To Go- Kanye West (as the basis of his song "About An Angel"), Beanie Sigel (as "Got Nowhere"), Freeway

"Much Better Off" – J Dilla.

"You've Got The Love I Need" - J Dilla, Raekwon.

"A Legend In Its Own Time" – J Dilla (as an exercept of his song "One Eleven").

"Oh Be My Love"- Barbara Lewis, The Supremes, Barbara McNair.

"I Don't Blame You At All" - Rosetta Hightower.

"Mighty Good Lovin"-Edwin Starr, Chris Clark.

"You're So Fine and Sweet" - The Undertakers.

"I Like It Like That" (Miracles song)- Bobby Vee, Mitch Ryder & the Detroit Wheels.

"Would I Love You" - Len Barry.

"Happy Landing" - The Temptations.

"Special Occasion - Jim Gilstrap.

"I'll Try Something New" – Diana Ross & the Supremes with the Temptations, Barbara McNair, A Taste of Honey, Spyder Turner (as an excerpt from his cover of "Stand By Me")

"My Girl Has Gone" – Etienne Daho, Bobby Taylor, Edwyn Collins, Ken Parker.

"Yester Love" – Gerald Wilson & His Orchestra

"The Love I Saw In You Was Just a Mirage" – The Jackson 5, Vance Gilbert, The Uniques

"Love Machine" – Wham!, Thelma Houston

"Determination" – The Contours.

"Choosey Beggar" – Chazz Dixon, Debby Boone.

"I've Been Good To You" – Marshall Crenshaw, Brenda Holloway, Joe Meek, The Temptones, Ray, Goodman & Brown (The Moments), The Ones, The Temptations.

"Mickey's Monkey" – Mother's Finest, Martha and the Vandellas, The Supremes, The Hollies, The Young Rascals, John Mellencamp, Lou Christie, Cannibal & the Headhunters, The C.A.Quintet, The Defenders, Chris Catena, The Sugar Beats, The Mac Truque.

"More Love" – Kim Carnes, Paul Young, Barbara McNair, Mica Paris, The 5th Dimension, Rick Webb, Foster Sylvers.

"Ooo Baby Baby" – Linda Ronstadt, Brenda Holloway, Shalamar, Ruby Turner, Sylvester, Spirit Traveler, Five Stairsteps, Zapp, Laura Nyro, Ella Fitzgerald, Honey Cone, Human Nature, Fingazz

"Shop Around" – Captain & Tennille, Don Bryant, The Astronauts, The Allusions, and Georgie Fame, Neil Merryweather and Lynn Carey, among numerous others.

"The Tears of a Clown" – La Toya Jackson, The Beat, The Rocking Chairs, The Re-Bops, Nnenna Freelon, The Flying Pickets, Caligula, Human Nature, Enuff Z'Nuff, Eumir Deodato, Brian Ray, Marc Cohn, Phil Collins.

"The Tracks of My Tears " – Linda Ronstadt, Aretha Franklin, Johnny Rivers, Gladys Knight & the Pips, Mongo Santamaría, Martha and the Vandellas, Bryan Ferry, Björns Vänner (as Ser Jag Ut Att Må Bra?), Dolly Parton, Boyz II Men, Human Nature, among many others

"Darling Dear" – The Jackson Five.

"Who's Loving You" – The Jackson 5, En Vogue, Terence Trent D'Arby, Brenda Holloway, The Supremes, The Temptations, Honey Cone, Stevie B., Archie Bell & the Drells, Nikka Costa.

"You've Really Got a Hold on Me" – Percy Sledge, Barbara McNair, The Beatles, The Temptations, The Supremes, The Zombies, Aidan Smith, Sonny & Cher, Mickey Gilley, Eddie Money, Cyndi Lauper, The Bobs, Greg Brown, Small Faces, Bobby McFerrin, Derrick Harriott, UFO8, Mike and The Mechanics, and She & Him among many others.

"I Gotta Dance to Keep From Crying" – The Who, Jimmy James.

"From Head to Toe" – Elvis Costello, Chris Clark
"A Fork in the Road " – Rebbie Jackson

"Way Over There" – The Royal Counts, The Temptations, Edwin Starr, The Marvelettes, New Man, Eddie Adams Jr.

"(You Can't Let the Boy Overpower) The Man In You" – Chuck Jackson

"What's So Good About Goodbye" – Giant Sunflower, The Temptations, Quix*O*Tic

"More, More, More of Your Love" – Bob Brady & the Con Chords

"Doggone Right" – Bobby Davis.

"After All" – The Supremes, The Marvelettes.

"Swept For You Baby" – The Sylvers, The Blenders, The Tamlins (as Sweat For You Baby).

"The Hurt is Over" – The DT's

"Whatever Makes You Happy"- Jacki Gore, Steve Washington.

"Save Me" – The Undertones

"(You Can) Depend On Me" – The Temptations,
The Supremes, Mary Wells, Brenda Holloway, Barbara Mason.

"Baby Baby Don't Cry" – Gerald Wilson and His Orchestra, Projekt.

"Can You Love a Poor Boy" – Bobby Vee, Softones, Gil Bernal, Ronnie Walker.

"Bad Girl" – Dazz Band, Mary Wells, Jackie Jackson.

"That's What Love Is Made Of" – Michael Jackson, Bobby Vee, Choker Campbell, The Magicians.

"We've Come Too Far To End It Now"-The Escorts

"Here I Go Again" – Chazz Dixon, Carey Bell, A.J. De Bravo, Little Willie G., Oran "Juice" Jones.

"Point It Out"' – The Supremes and The Temptations.

"Got A Job" – The Marcels

"Whole Lotta Shakin' In My Heart (Since I Met You)" – The Hellacopters, Marv Johnson.

"Give Me Just Another Day" – Young Jeezy (as the basis for his song, "Mr 17.5"), Schoolboy Q, Wade Waters, Christina Milian, Rick Ross, Marco Polo feat. Torae, and others.

"Do It Baby"- Jimmy Ponder, Red Holt (of Young-Holt Unlimited).

"Who's Gonna Take The Blame" – Capone N. Noreaga (as the basis of their song "Live On Live Long").

"Come On Do The Jerk" – The Righteous Brothers [64], The T-Bones

"Don't Let It End (Till You Let It Begin)-Betty Everett the Studio Group

LEVEL 3 ?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME ??

Posted by Bill G on Wednesday, 05/8/2019 @ 06:47am

*****************THE MIRACLES********************

Now, look at that list of artists' cover versions of MIRACLES' songs... and ask yourselves:

"How many of YOUR favorites can boast of a list that LONG ???"
And, while you're thinking about THAT, Consider THIS:

"How many artists CURRENTLY at Level 4 can ?"

(Think about it) .

Posted by Bill G on Wednesday, 05/8/2019 @ 06:56am

Tier 5 looks pretty solid. 4 has a few ringers..
3,2,1 is pretty much a mess.
Biggest botch
Joni Mitchell and Van Morrison at 3 should bump a few from 4..
Paul McCartney at 2?
Lots of 1s easily are 3 and 4s....

Posted by Mark on Wednesday, 05/8/2019 @ 17:32pm

https://www.ranker.com/list/rolling-stone-100-greatest-artists-of-all-time/music-lover

MOTOWN GROUPS RANKED ON ROLLING STONE'S LIST OF
*******THE TOP 100 ARTISTS OF ALL TIME:*******

1) THE MIRACLES at # 32

2) THE TEMPTATIONS at # 67

3) THE FOUR TOPS at # 79

4) MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS at # 96

5) THE SUPREMES at # 97

NOW....THOSE ARE THE ACTUAL RANKINGS...and you SEE just WHO ROLLING STONE Ranks as the TOP MOTOWN GROUP. I guess SONGWRITING , PRODUCING, and INFLUENCE are considered more IMPORTANT than flashy choreography,flashy clothes,and Pop success!! Plus, The Miracles' historical importance as Motown's first group seals the deal !!
Again, just ANOTHER REASON why THE MIRACLES should be at Level 4 !!!

Posted by Bill G on Saturday, 05/11/2019 @ 04:26am

To compare:
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2019/04/ranking-every-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inductee-by-tiers.html

They have 18 acts in their top tier, and based on this David Bowie should be in Level 5.

Posted by Follower on Thursday, 05/16/2019 @ 20:33pm

"As Bill Simmons said in his original article though, this is subjective. Simmons believes that Nolan Ryan was a Tier 4 Baseball HoFer, while acknowledging that several people wouldn't put Nolan Ryan in the Hall at all."

Yes, they're called idiots (just like the ~2% that didn't vote for Cobb, ~5% of voters that didn't vote for Ruth and Wagner, ~9% of voters that didn't vote for Mathewson and ~16% of voters that didn't vote for Johnson, or the idiots that took three years to vote in DiMaggio).

And yes, the RRHOF still is missing a Tier 4 group in Kraftwerk because the voters are idiots who hate Electronic music (amongst other things). Not a shock, since they also decided it was a good idea to put in Nile Rodgers as a sideman when substantially all his HOF credentials were through Chic (which he himself acknowledged), which ironically has destroyed Chic's chances (since they technically can't factor him in as he was inducted on his work with Chic amongst other groups). And of course not inducting producers like Eno, Rodgers, Perry, Rundgren, etc.

Posted by Handsome Bob on Thursday, 05/16/2019 @ 23:04pm

Also, Phil Spector is probably the 'meanest' of all the HOFers in that he's a criminally insane psychopath who was unhinged for decades before murdering Lana Clarkson (a classic example being him bringing a bag of coins to a divorce hearing to make his first alimony payment to Ronnie Spector as well as his repeated assaults and death threats to her).

Posted by Handsome Bob on Thursday, 05/16/2019 @ 23:13pm

** THE MIRACLES...and why they SHOULD be Level 4:**

Level 4:

These are basically "L3" guys, only there's something just inherently "greater" about them.

Some QUALIFYING QUESTIONS:

1)Do you have to consider them in any "best of all-time" discussions?
DEFINITELY !!

Did they have transcendent songs and albums or memorable moments? ARE YOU KIDDING ME ? SHOP AROUND, YOU'VE REALLY GOT A HOLD ON ME, OOO BABY BABY, THE TRACKS OF MY TEARS, MORE LOVE, THE TEARS OF A CLOWN, I SECOND THAT EMOTION,BABY BABY DON'T CRY, LOVE MACHINE...and MORE !!

Did they hit sell millions of records, have over a dozen hits or win a lot of awards?
SEE FOR YOURSELF !!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Miracles_awards_and_achievements

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracles_discography

Were they just dominant at times? For some 50 years !!
Will you always remember seeing them in concert, even when you're 80 years old and peeing on yourself? YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT !!

LEVEL 4 ? DEFINITELY !! They wrote 95 % of their OWN HITS...plus hits for THE TEMPTATIIONS , MARVIN GAYE, MARY WELLS, THE MARVELETTES,and NUMEROUS OTHERS !! LEVEL FOUR ? DEFINITELY !!

MORE PROOF !!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracles_discography

http://www.beatlesebooks.com/hold-on-me

Posted by Bill G on Tuesday, 06/4/2019 @ 22:46pm

*******Here's the REAL KICKER !!*******

At least FIVE ACTS in Level 5 of this Pyramid have PUBLICLY ADMITTED that THEY and/or their MUSIC has been INFLUENCED by
**************** THE MIRACLES ****************
The Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder (who was actually even DISCOVERED by one of The Miracles...the late Ronnie White) and THE WHO...So. HOW are THEY at Level 5, while the group that INFLUENCED them are just at LEVEL 3 ?? YOU TELL ME !!!

Posted by Bill G on Sunday, 07/28/2019 @ 00:36am

Since the lower rungs no longer reflect multiples of 12, a couple more artists should move up to that top rung and give us even multiples of 13, 14, or 15, whatever it would be up to by now. I would say Aretha, Bowie, or Springsteen could be moved up to the top rung

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Posted by williams on Monday, 10/21/2019 @ 09:31am

The 2020 inductees

Doobie Brothers-5
Whitney Houston-5
Biggie Smalls-4
T. Rex-3
Depeche Mode-4
Nine Inch Nails-4

Posted by Plebian on Monday, 03/2/2020 @ 02:11am

what i think the 2020 inductees should be in:

depeche mode - 2 or 3
the doobie brothers - 1
whitney houston - 3 or 4
nine inch nails - 2 or 3
the notorious big - 2
t. rex - 2

Posted by Michael on Tuesday, 03/24/2020 @ 17:21pm

When this pyramid was constructed, there were (IIRC) approximately 180 performer acts in the R&R HoF. That made for a conveniently proportionate pyramid: 12 acts in Level 5, 24 in Level 4, 36 in Level 3, 48 in Level 4 and 60 in Level 5. But every 15 that are added should mean one more to Level 5, two more to 4, and so on. Since there are 221 as of now, two or three more should be promoted to level 5 (and more to the other levels), if only to maintain the proportions.

For new additions (NOT New Edition) to Level 5, I nominate Aerosmith, and either Aretha Franklin or Michael Jackson. Any thoughts? (Yes, feel free to flame me!)

Posted by Joe on Wednesday, 03/25/2020 @ 22:48pm

Dire Straits, Nina Simone #5? Some great musicality But, say, Aerosmith is #3 ?
Are you serious? The only thing that makes sense in this pyramid is that Beatles is the top followed by Led Zeppelin (which should have had the name Pink Floyd next to it followed by Chuck Bery and Dylan--Dylan had some of the best music out there but surely enough it could never be as tight as LZ).
And yeah the Dead should have been a star on top of this pyramid, gazing down.

Posted by some guy on Friday, 03/27/2020 @ 16:59pm

I still listen to modern rock/indie radio at times, but for the most part, I start losing sustained interest around 1998 or '9. Radiohead were around then. They had just released Kid A, and since they were the most written about band at the time, I gave it a listen, and I just don't see it. They are certainly not on the level of Bowie, Springsteen, Aretha, or Nirvana, even Michael. I thought they were dull and uninteresting musically, and they couldn't keep my attention long enough to listen to the lyrics. They don't have a ton of bands imitating them other than Coldplay. There are many, many 2000s and '10s era bands that are more engaging. I'll concede they're important enough to be in the hall, but ranking them higher than the Doors, Grateful Dead, Zappa, or even Jefferson Airplane (a possible influence) is ridiculous. I still say they're the most overrated band ever, and should only be on level 2. I'm a musician myself, my band plays a mix of originals and 70s/80s/90s rock covers, and Radiohead's name never comes up between any of us. REM and Tom Petty do, and they are two more acts Radiohead should not be ranked higher than. I did read an article once that said Radiohead were the new REM. In a word, no. Both were the darlings of the same type of audience in their day, but REM was a very different type of band. They at least had a beat and memorable songs.

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 05/28/2020 @ 12:15pm

When will this be updated?

Posted by Frank on Friday, 04/9/2021 @ 04:03am

Cleveland.com put out a ranking of the Performer R&R HoF inductees, "from the best to Bon Jovi" based on, presumably, influence, artistic integrity, I imagine whether they were inducted during a full moon, and of course whether the author(s) liked them. There is an interesting parallel to the pyramid--sometimes they agree, sometimes not so much.

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2020/01/every-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inductee-ranked-from-best-to-bon-jovi.html

1. The Beatles
2. Chuck Berry
3. Elvis Presley
4. James Brown (and the Famous Flames)
5. Bob Dylan
6. Aretha Franklin
7. The Jimi Hendrix Experience
8. The Rolling Stones
9. Stevie Wonder
10. Led Zeppelin
11. Miles Davis
12. The Velvet Underground
13. Ray Charles
14. The Beach Boys
15. The Who
16. Bob Marley
17. Fats Domino
18. Muddy Waters
19. Little Richard
20. Marvin Gaye
21. Michael Jackson
22. Madonna
23. Sam Cooke
24. Bruce Springsteen
25. Prince
26. The Supremes
27 Johnny Cash
28. Otis Redding
29. Bo Diddley
30. Ramones
31. Pink Floyd
32. David Bowie
33. Buddy Holly (and the Crickets)
34. Smokey Robinson (and the Miracles)
35. The Kinks
36 Sly and the Family Stone
37. U2
38. Nirvana
39. The Clash
40. The Everly Brothers
41. The Byrds
42. The Doors
43. The Temptations
44. Neil Young
45. Black Sabbath
46. Joni Mitchell
47. R.E.M.
48. Run-DMC
49. Sex Pistols
50. Queen
51. The Stooges
52. The Band
53. Ike and Tina Turner
54. Elton John
55. Cream
56. Parliament-Funkadelic
57. John Lennon
58. Roy Orbison
59. The Drifters
60. Jerry Lee Lewis
61. The Grateful Dead
62. Nina Simone
63. Frank Zappa
64. Simon and Garfunkel
65. Ruth Brown
66. Van Morrison
67. Curtis Mayfield
68. Etta James
69. Public Enemy
70. Talking Heads
71. The Yardbirds
72. Jackie Wilson
73. Radiohead
74 Paul McCartney
75. Janet Jackson
76. Van Halen
77. The Four Tops
78. Janis Joplin
79. Eric Clapton
80. Al Green
81. Tupac Shakur
82. Metallica
83. Lou Reed
84. Patti Smith
85. B. B. King
86. Whitney Houston
87. The Beastie Boys
88. The Allman Brothers Band
89. AC/DC
90. The Shirelles
91. Carl Perkins
92. The Isley Brothers
93. Fleetwood Mac
94. Eagles
95. Bill Haley (and His Comets)
96. Aerosmith
97. The Bee Gees
98. Crosby Stills and Nash
99. Pearl Jam
100. Creedence Clearwater Revival
101. Nine Inch Nails
102. The Police
103. The Cure
104. Guns N' Roses
105. Elvis Costello and the Attractions
106. N.W.A
107. Eddie Cochran
108. Big Joe Turner
109. Jefferson Airplane
110. Booker T. and the M.G.s
111. Lynyrd Skynyrd
112. Rod Stewart
113. Donna Summer
114. Paul Simon
115. The Notorious B.I.G.
116. Steely Dan
117. Deep Purple
118. The Jackson 5
119. Billy Joel
120. Tom Waits
121. Leonard Cohen
122. Roxy Music
123. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five
124. Ricky Nelson
125. Little Willie John
126. T. Rex
127. Yes
128. Earth, Wind and Fire
129. Santana
130. Martha and the Vandellas
131. Blondie
132. John Lee Hooker
133. The Platters
134. Cheap Trick
135. Jimmy Reed
136. Rush
137. Clyde McPhatter
138. Genesis
139. Joan Baez
140. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
141. Buffalo Springfield
142. The Pretenders
143. The Four Seasons
144. The impressions
145. Linda Ronstadt
146. Albert King
147. The Ronettes
148. James Taylor
149. Alice Cooper
150. Hank Ballard (and the Midnighters)
151. Green Day
152. Jackson Browne
153. Wilson Pickett
154. The Animals
155. Sam and Dave
156. Depeche Mode
157. Gladys Knight and the Pips
158. The Ventures
159. John Mellencamp
160. Hall and Oates
161. The Cars
162. Randy Newman
163. Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
164. Peter Gabriel
165. ZZ Top
166. LaVern Baker
167. Dusty Springfield
168. The Righteous Brothers
169. Heart
170. Duane Eddy
171. The Moody Blues
172. Def Leppard
173. Brenda Lee
174. Solomon Burke
175. KISS
176. The Mamas and the Papas
177. ABBA
178. Laura Nyro
179. Bob Seger
180. Buddy Guy
181. The Hollies
182. Neil Diamond
183. Red Hot Chili Peppers
184. The Flamingos
185. The O'Jays
186. Bobby "Blue" Bland
187. Bonnie Raitt
188. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers
189. The Dave Clark Five
190. Dire Straits
191. Jimmy Cliff
192. The (Small) Faces
193. Jeff Beck
194. Isaac Hayes
195. Donovan
196. The Staple Singers
197. The (Young) Rascals
198. Traffic
199. Gene Vincent (and the Blue Caps)
200. The Coasters
201. Cat Stevens
202. Bobby Womack
203. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
204. Darlene Love
205. Dr. John
206. Ritchie Valens
207. Gene Pitney
208. Lloyd Price
209. The Doobie Brothers
210. Dion
211. The Zombies
212. The Moonglows
213. Steve Miller
214. George Harrison
215. Bill Withers
216. Journey
217. Chicago
218. Little Anthony and the Imperials
219. The Paul Butterfield Blues Band
220. Bobby Darin
221. The Dells
222. Lovin' Spoonful
223. Del Shannon
224. Electric Light Orchestra
225. Percy Sledge
226. Stevie Nicks
227. Bon Jovi

Posted by Joe on Tuesday, 04/27/2021 @ 05:25am

Since this hasn't been updated since 2019, where do you think the 2020 and 2021 inductees rank in the Rock Hall pyramid?

Posted by John R.C on Wednesday, 05/12/2021 @ 23:17pm

John R.C.,

2020:
Depeche Mode-Level 2
Whitney Houston-Level 2
Nine Inch Nails-Level 2
The Notorious B.I.G.-Level 3
T.Rex-Level 3
The Doobie Brothers-Level 1

2021:
Jay-Z -Level 3
Foo Fighters-Level 1
The Go-Go's-Level 1
Tina Turner-Level 1
Carole King-Level 1
Todd Rundgren-Level 1

This is me being honest.

Posted by Plebeian on Wednesday, 05/12/2021 @ 23:27pm

2020

1. The Notorious B.I.G.-2
2. Nine Inch Nails-2
3. Whitney Houston-2, maybe 1
4. T. Rex-1, maybe 2
5. Depeche Mode-1
6. The Doobie Brothers-1

2021

1. Jay-Z-3 but would also be fine with 4 if Eminem gets 4 as well.
2. Tina Turner-3 most best artists list Tina Turner solo, even though it includes her work with Ike, would just be easier to have them slot right next to eachother
3. Foo Fighters-1, but since they're a first ballot HOFer 2 might be more befitting
4. Carole King-2, but could also be 1 since most of her best known stuff is on Tapestry
5. The Go-Go's-1
6. Todd Rundgren-1

Posted by Corey Finn on Tuesday, 05/18/2021 @ 15:57pm

The Pyramid has been updated through the class of 2021. Where would you change things up?

Posted by FRL on Wednesday, 05/19/2021 @ 22:30pm

I would've put Whitney Houston at Level 2, or 3 at most, because of how commercially successful she was and influenced a lot of singers to this day.

Posted by John R.C. on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 02:05am

Can't see any update yet. P.S. I love this site and all the work you do.

Posted by Corey Finn on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 11:14am

Upgrade Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, and T. Rex. I don't see Nine Inch Nails.

Posted by Plebeian on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 16:03pm

Oh found NIN. They should be upgraded too. A lot of the acts in Level 1 and 2 should be upgraded too. Depeche Mode, T.Rex, Nine Inch Nails, and Whitney are all incredibly low. IMO obviously.

Posted by Plebeian on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 16:09pm

I'd probably have The Moody Blues in Level 2 or 3, since they're name checked as the pioneers of art rock and prog rock.

Posted by Steve Z on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 17:17pm

Add Deep Purple, Miles Davis, KISS, and Nina Simone to the acts that need serious promotion. So really

KISS (Level 2)
Nina Simone (Level 2)
Miles Davis (Level 2)
Deep Purple (Level 2)
Depeche Mode (Level 2)
Whitney Houston (Level 2)
T. Rex (Level 2)
Nine Inch Nails (Level 2)

Basically these acts are all Level 2

Posted by Plebeian on Thursday, 05/20/2021 @ 18:13pm

The only artist from the last two years that I'd move up would be Nine Inch Nails. I'd bump them up to Level 2 simply because of how they advanced a genre that was pretty much on the fringes before they came along. I'd also drop Tina Turner down to Level 1. Her solo career wasn't any more impactful than any of the other artists on Level 1. Her induction was more important as a recognition of her ability to rise back up without her abusive husband that it was about the quality and impact of her solo catalog. I think all of the others were placed appropriately. Outside of Biggie and Jay-Z, no one else really needs to be above Level 1. I suppose you could make a case for T. Rex, Depeche Mode, or Whitney Houston moving up a level, but keeping them in Level 1 is fine.

Posted by Michael W on Friday, 05/21/2021 @ 14:58pm

I agree Trent and the gang have proven to be one of the staples in not just 90s rock, but music in general. Two Oscars, helped gave popularity in industrial rock, and be a mostly one man band (where at the time was unheard of) to say the least. Tina Turner is solely on Level 2 for star power and that's it. Jay-Z and Biggie Smalls are in the most appropriate level. Eminem maybe the last artist to hit Level 4.

Posted by Plebeian on Friday, 05/21/2021 @ 16:15pm

Yes should definitely be a 2.

Posted by Chris on Friday, 05/21/2021 @ 16:21pm

I would think acts like Parliament - Funkadelic, Sex Pistols, Frank Zappa, Curtis Mayfield, The Stooges, AC/DC, Guns N' Roses & The Yardbirds should move up to Level 3 because they have defined genres in their own right. I would also move Aretha Franklin, Little Richard & Bob Marley up to 5 as well. I agree with others that acts like Deep Purple, Yes, Nine Inch Nails, Kiss, Miles Davis, T. Rex, Whitney Houston & Nina Simone should be at 2.

Posted by Navonte Robertson on Monday, 07/26/2021 @ 09:57am

I have adjustments:

Aretha Franklin (Level 5)
Little Richard (Level 5)
Muddy Waters (Level 5)
Bob Marley (Level 5)
Marvin Gaye (Level 5)
Madonna (Level 4)
Deep Purple (Level 2)
Miles Davis (Level 2)
Nina Simone (Level 2)
Nine Inch Nails (Level 2)
Depeche Mode (Level 2)
Parliament - Funkadelic (Level 3)
The Stooges (Level 3)
Sex Pistols (Level 3)
Jackie Wilson (Level 3)
Crosby, Stills & Nash (Level 2)
CCR (Level 3)
Donna Summer (Level 2)
The Pretenders (Level 2)

That's all I have.

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Tuesday, 04/19/2022 @ 14:18pm

2022 Nominees:
Beck (Level 1 or 2)
Pat Benatar (Level 1)
Kate Bush (Level 1)
Devo (Level 1)
Duran Duran (Level 1 or 2)
Eminem (Level 4)
Eurythmics (Level 1)
Judas Priest (Level 1 or 2)
Fela Kuti (Level 1)
MC5 (Level 1)
New York Dolls (Level 1)
Dolly Parton (Level 2)
Rage Against the Machine (Level 1 or 2)
Lionel Richie (Level 1)
Carly Simon (Level 1)
A Tribe Called Quest (Level 2 or 3)
Dionne Warwick (Level 1)

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Sunday, 04/24/2022 @ 13:54pm

Oh i have more adjustments:
Run - DMC (Level 4)
Public Enemy (Level 4)
Otis Redding (Level 4)

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Sunday, 04/24/2022 @ 14:32pm

For the new inductees, my opinion is this:
Eminem-Level 4-In my opinion, Eminem has absolutely had an impact and back catalogue that can stand aside against David Bowie, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John etc.
Dolly Parton-Level 2-The only caveat is that she isn't strictly rock 'n' roll, like Miles Davis, Nina Simone or Joan Baez, but with songs like Jolene, Coat of Many Colors, 9 to 5, I Will Always Love You etc, I think she deserves this position
Duran Duran, Eurythmics, Carly Simon, Pat Benatar, Lionel Richie would all be level 1's in I'm afraid. Judas Priest would have been a Level 2 if they were inducted as performers.

Posted by Corey Finn on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 08:15am

Corey Finn,

On point! Though if Davis and Simon couldn't be Level 2 I don't see Parton sadly.

Posted by Plebeian on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 09:25am

*Simone

Posted by Plebeian on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 09:26am

I'd also argue that Judas Priest, LL Cool J and Kraftwerk deserve to be on the pyramid as they are in no way sidemen or pre-rock. It's just how the hall seems to operate now.

Posted by Corey Finn on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 14:23pm

2022 inductees:
Pat Benatar (Level 1)
Duran Duran (Level 1 or 2)
Eminem (Level 4)
Eurythmics (Level 1)
Dolly Parton (Level 2)
Lionel Richie (Level 1)
Carly Simon (Level 1)

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 15:49pm

Eminem due to his position in both rap and the 21st century maybe should be a high level 4 or possible dare i say maybe just cracking 5. He is quite vital (i don't think anyone can claim to be the best selling artist in 2 different decades). I do think the pyramid needs serious changes cause gaye, prince, franklin, jackson, bowie, and maybe tupac have overtaken taken some of the 5 in recent years in many ways. Art is fluid and stuff changes. Hell, when it comes time for kanye are we really gonna say his mark isn't bigger than say the who (who i love)? The guy's impact has been very strongly compared to Picasso i really have a hard time seeing him not being capable of being a 5 even if he's blacklisted by the hall for years.

Posted by Mat r on Wednesday, 05/4/2022 @ 16:32pm

Level 1:
Duran Duran
Carly Simon
Lionel Richie
Pat Benatar
Eurthymics
Dolly Parton (may argue for level 2 but I feel even being a well-known figure in country does not translate to being "rock royalty" just like Davis, Simone, etc.)

Level 4:
Eminem (Last one for awhile, maybe Kanye will reach that when he is eligible)

Posted by Plebeian on Tuesday, 05/10/2022 @ 02:19am

Plebeian,

Very good insight expect Dolly should be Level 2 mostly because she's one of the most important women in popular music as a whole.

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Tuesday, 05/10/2022 @ 03:39am

Thought of doing something interesting.

I would like to do the # ratings of performers of every class, for this I'll be giving them a number between 0 -10 out of 10 based on influence & innovation on popular music. I'll do this by at least 3 or 4 parts. This is Pt 1.

Rating Numbers:
10/10 = Immortals, Legends & Icons
9/10 = All Time Greats
8/10 = No Brainers
7/10 = Solid Picks
6/10 = Decent Artists
5/10 = Average/Borderline
4/10 = Marginal
3/10 = Mediocre
2/10 = Failure
1/10 = Not even worth of mention

1986
Chuck Berry: 10/10
James Brown & The Famous Flames: 10/10
Ray Charles: 10/10
Sam Cooke: 10/10
Fats Domino: 10/10
The Everly Brothers: 10/10
Buddy Holly & The Crickets: 10/10
Jerry Lee Lewis: 10/10
Little Richard: 10/10
Elvis Presley: 10/10

1987
The Coasters: 8/10
Eddie Cochran: 9/10
Bo Diddley: 10/10
Aretha Franklin: 10/10
Marvin Gaye: 10/10
Bill Haley & The Comets: 9/10
BB King: 10/10
Clyde McPhatter: 8/10
Ricky Nelson: 9/10
Roy Orbison: 10/10
Carl Perkins: 10/10
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles: 10/10
Big Joe Turner: 9/10
Muddy Waters: 10/10
Jackie Wilson: 10/10

1988
The Beach Boys: 10/10
The Beatles: 10/10
Bob Dylan: 10/10
The Drifters: 10/10
The Supremes: 10/10

1989
Dion: 8/10
Otis Redding: 10/10
The Rolling Stones: 10/10
The Temptations: 10/10
Stevie Wonder: 10/10

1990
Hank Ballard & The Midnighters: 8/10
Bobby Darin: 5/10
The Four Seasons: 7/10
The Four Tops: 10/10
The Kinks: 10/10
The Platters: 8/10
Simon & Garfunkel: 10/10
The Who: 10/10

1991
Lavern Baker: 6/10
The Byrds: 10/10
John Lee Hooker: 8/10
The Impressions: 7/10
Wilson Pickett: 9/10
Jimmy Reed: 8/10
Ike & Tina Turner: 9/10

1992
Bobby "Blue" Bland: 8/10
Booker T & The M.G's: 8/10
Johnny Cash: 10/10
The Isley Brothers: 9/10
Jimi Hendrix Experience: 10/10
Sam & Dave: 9/10
The Yardbirds: 9/10

1993
Ruth Brown: 8/10
Cream: 9/10
CCR: 9/10
The Doors: 10/10
Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers: 6/10
Etta James: 9/10
Van Morrison: 10/10
Sly & The Family Stone: 10/10

1994
The Animals: 8/10
The Band: 9/10
Duane Eddy: 6/10
The Grateful Dead: 9/10
Elton John: 10/10
John Lennon: 10/10
Bob Marley: 10/10
Rod Stewart: 8/10

1995
The Allman Brothers Band: 9/10
Al Green: 9/10
Janis Joplin: 10/10
Led Zeppelin: 10/10
Martha & The Vandellas: 8/10
Neil Young: 10/10
Frank Zappa: 9/10

1996
David Bowie: 10/10
Gladys Knight & The Pips: 7/10
Jefferson Airplane: 8/10
Little Willie John: 6/10
Pink Floyd: 10/10
The Shirelles: 9/10
The Velvet Underground: 10/10

Part 2 coming soon!

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Tuesday, 05/10/2022 @ 16:06pm

Here's part 2 of the rating the performers.

Rating Numbers:
10/10 = Immortals, Legends & Icons
9/10 = All Time Greats
8/10 = No Brainers
7/10 = Solid Picks
6/10 = Decent Artists
5/10 = Average/Borderline
4/10 = Marginal
3/10 = Mediocre
2/10 = Failure
1/10 = Not even worth of mention

1997
The Bee Gees: 9/10
Buffalo Springfield: 6/10
Crosby, Stills & Nash: 7/10
The Jackson 5: 9/10
Joni Mitchell: 9/10
Parliament - Funkadelic: 10/10
The (Young) Rascals: 5/10

1998
Eagles: 9/10
Fleetwood Mac: 8/10
The Mamas & The Papas: 6/10
Lloyd Price: 4/10
Santana: 8/10
Gene Vincent & The Blue Caps: 7/10

1999
Billy Joel: 9/10
Curtis Mayfield: 9/10
Paul McCartney: 8/10
Del Shannon: 5/10
Dusty Springfield: 8/10
Bruce Springsteen: 10/10
The Staple Singers: 8/10

2000
Eric Clapton: 9/10
Earth, Wind & Fire: 8/10
The "Lovin Spoonful: 5/10
The Moonglows: 6/10
Bonnie Raitt: 7/10
James Taylor: 8/10

2001
Aerosmith: 9/10
Solomon Burke: 7/10
The Flamingos: 6/10
Michael Jackson: 10/10
Queen: 10/10
Paul Simon: 8/10
Steely Dan: 8/10
Ritchie Valens: 7/10

2002
Isaac Hayes: 7/10
Brenda Lee: 6/10
Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers: 9/10
Gene Pitney: 5/10
Ramones: 10/10
Talking Heads: 9/10

2003
AC/DC: 9/10
The Clash: 10/10
Elvis Costello & The Attractions: 9/10
The Police: 9/10
Righteous Brothers: 7/10

2004
Jackson Browne: 7/10
The Dells: 5/10
George Harrison: 8/10
Prince: 10/10
Bob Seger: 7/10
Traffic: 7/10
ZZ Top: 7/10

2005
Buddy Guy: 8/10
The O'Jays: 7/10
The Pretenders: 8/10
Percy Sledge: 2/10
U2: 10/10

2006
Black Sabbath: 10/10
Blondie: 8/10
Miles Davis: 9/10
Lynyrd Skynyrd: 8/10
Sex Pistols: 9/10

2007
Grandmaster Flash & Furious Five: 8/10
R.E.M: 10/10
The Ronettes: 6/10
Patti Smith: 9/10
Van Halen: 9/10

Part 3 coming soon!

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Tuesday, 05/10/2022 @ 21:00pm

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Friday, 05/13/2022 @ 01:33am

Final part of rating the performers.

Rating Numbers:
10/10 = Immortals, Legends & Icons
9/10 = All Time Greats
8/10 = No Brainers
7/10 = Solid Picks
6/10 = Decent Artists
5/10 = Average/Borderline
4/10 = Marginal
3/10 = Mediocre
2/10 = Failure
1/10 = Not even worth of mention

2008
The DC5: 5/10
Leonard Cohen: 7/10
Madonna: 10/10
John Mellencamp: 7/10
The Ventures: 7/10

2009
Jeff Beck: 7/10
Little Anthony & The Imperials: 6/10
Metallica: 10/10
Run - DMC: 10/10
Bobby Womack: 7/10

2010
ABBA: 7/10
Genesis: 7/10
The Hollies: 3/10
Jimmy Cliff: 5/10
The Stooges: 10/10

2011
Alice Cooper: 7/10
Neil Diamond: 7/10
Dr. John: 5/10
Darlene Love: 3/10
Tom Waits: 8/10

2012
Beastie Boys: 9/10
Donovan: 7/10
GNR: 9/10
Laura Nyro: 4/10
RHCP: 9/10
The Small Faces: 6/10

2013
Heart: 7/10
Albert King: 9/10
Randy Newman: 6/10
Public Enemy: 10/10
Rush: 7/10
Donna Summer: 8/10

2014
Peter Gabriel: 7/10
Hall & Oates: 7/10
Kiss: 7/10
Nirvana: 10/10
Linda Ronstadt: 7/10
Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam: 6/10

2015
The Paul Butterfield Blues Band: 3/10
Green Day: 9/10
Joan Jett & The Blackhearts: 5/10
Lou Reed: 7/10
SRV & Double Trouble: 7/10
Bill Withers: 6/10

2016
Cheap Trick: 6/10
Chicago: 6/10
Deep Purple: 7/10
Steve Miller: 3/10
N.W.A: 9/10

2017
Joan Baez: 6/10
ELO: 6/10
Journey: 3/10
Pearl Jam: 9/10
Tupac Shakur: 10/10
Yes: 7/10

2018
Bon Jovi: 4/10
The Cars: 7/10
Dire Straits: 6/10
The Moody Blues: 5/10
Nina Simone: 9/10

2019
The Cure: 8/10
Def Leppard: 6/10
Janet Jackson: 9/10
Stevie Nicks: 3/10
Radiohead: 10/10
Roxy Music: 8/10
The Zombies: 5/10

2020
Depeche Mode: 8/10
The Doobie Brothers: 6/10
Whitney Houston: 9/10
NIN: 9/10
The Notorious B.I.G: 8/10
T. Rex: 7/10

2021
Foo Fighters: 8/10
The Go - Go's: 7/10
Jay - Z: 10/10
Carole King: 5/10
Todd Rundgren: 6/10
Tina Turner: 9/10

2022
Pat Benatar: 6/10
Duran Duran: 8/10
Eminem: 10/10
Eurythmics: 7/10
Dolly Parton: 9/10
Lionel Richie: 6/10
Carly Simon: 6/10

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Friday, 05/13/2022 @ 05:01am

I think Judas Priest, LL Cool J and Kraftwerk should be on the pyramid. After 2020, the side category is not same as before. They should be treated as same as the main performer.

Posted by power on Friday, 04/14/2023 @ 14:38pm

Willie Nelson: Level 3
Kate Bush: Level 2
Missy Elliott: Level 2
George Michael: Level 1
Rage Against the Machine: Level 1
the Spinners: Level 1
Sheryl Crow: Level 1
Chaka Khan: Level 1

Posted by power on Thursday, 05/4/2023 @ 07:08am

2023 class ratings.

Kate Bush: 8/10
Sheryl Crow: 6/10
Missy Elliott: 9/10
George Michael: 6/10
Willie Nelson: 9/10
Rage Against the Machine: 8/10
The Spinners: 8/10

Posted by Jordan Einstein on Thursday, 05/4/2023 @ 22:30pm

Personally, I think George Michael deserves a higher number than 6. To say that George is only a 6 is an insult.

Posted by Johnny on Thursday, 05/4/2023 @ 22:39pm

FLR needs to update this.

Posted by Follower on Saturday, 06/3/2023 @ 14:54pm

With a why I'm seeing this, if FRL update this then the following performers of 2022 & 23 would be like this.

2022
Pat Benatar (Level 1)
Duran Duran (Level 1)
Eminem (Level 3)
Eurythmics (Level 1)
Dolly Parton (Level 2)
Lionel Richie (Level 1)
Carly Simon (Level 1)

2023
Kate Bush (Level 2)
Sheryl Crow (Level 1)
Missy Elliott (Level 2 or 3)
George Michael (Level 1)
Willie Nelson (Level 3 or 4)
Rage Against the Machine (Level 1)
The Spinners (Level 1 or 2)

Posted by Ron Jenkins on Saturday, 08/5/2023 @ 18:13pm

2024

Mary J. Blige - Level 2
Cher - Level 1
DMB - Level 1
Foreigner - Level 1
Peter Frampton - Level 1
Kool & The Gang - Level 1
Ozzy Osbourne - Level 1
A Tribe Called Quest - Level 2

Posted by Ron Jenkins on Friday, 05/10/2024 @ 23:42pm

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Future Rock Legends

Uncovering the Next Generation's Hall of Fame

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Pyramid

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