Madonna

Rock & Roll Hall of Famer

Category: Performer

Inducted in: 2008

Inducted by: Justin Timberlake

Nominated in: 2008

First Eligible: 2008 Ceremony


Inducted into Rock Hall Revisited in 2008 (ranked #61) .


Essential Albums (?)WikipediaAmazon MP3Amazon CD
Madonna (1982)
Like A Virgin (1984)
Like A Prayer (1989)
Ray Of Light (1998)

Essential Songs (?)WikipediaAmazon MP3YouTube
Lucky Star (1983)
Like a Virgin (1984)
Material Girl (1984)
Into the Groove (1985)
Papa Don't Preach (1986)
Like a Prayer (1989)
Express Yourself (1989)
Vogue (1990)
Ray Of Light (1998)

Madonna @ Wikipedia

Madonna Videos

Comments

1257 comments so far (post your own)

The Material Girl is a dead lock for the Hall. What she's doing with a guitar in that photo is another question/issue entirely.

Posted by Fibre Channel on Tuesday, 07.18.06 @ 12:31pm


She needs to be inducted right away imo

Posted by Dawgness Monster on Saturday, 09.30.06 @ 00:52am


Being one of the last, truly great global "pop stars", I think it would be a great disservice to not induct Madonna this year. It's undeniable that she's had influence--direct or indirect--on nearly all the major female artists still out today. Even if you don't personally always agree with Madonna as a person, admitting that she's had a large influence isn't giving in. This woman has had nearly complete control over her music and image throughout her entire career, since 1982, and should be fully recognized for this.

Posted by Justin on Tuesday, 10.31.06 @ 02:28am


Madonna has undoubtly been the biggest female pop star for the more than 20 years, and for the industry to not recognize her as a shoe-in for the 2007 class would be criminal. She's had a career and achieved accomplishments that i doubt no female artist before or after could ever do. Madonna has albums sales of over 200 million worldwide, and is in class of her own. She's still going strong as 2006 is coming to a close, and after 25 years, madonna will take her in this hall of fame and put all negative nay sayers to shame, there is no doubt.

Posted by felix on Saturday, 11.4.06 @ 14:05pm


I'm sure that Madonna will not be inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame this year (2007) because she never gets credit for what she deserves. But does she deserve to be inducted this year??? NO DOUBT!

Posted by Johnney on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 18:00pm


Madonna is the queen of pop. And if the King, Michael Jackson is inducteed, the queen must be inducteed.

Posted by Master on Saturday, 01.20.07 @ 19:38pm


Do you know how long Madonna's lasted? People still listen to her music and she isn't wearing out yet.

Posted by llama on Saturday, 02.3.07 @ 16:28pm


She s a Genius and awesome.

Confessions on a Dancefloor, her latest Album, is one of my favourites.

Love Madonna - she ROCKS!

Posted by UweB on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 12:37pm


Remember the morning set at Live Aid? that showed me she wasn't just fluff

Posted by Jack on Monday, 02.5.07 @ 12:47pm


Seriously, if you consider Madonna's singing skills (not even Madonna fans call her a great singer), her guitar playing skills (about the same level as her singing skills, she only picked it up for American Pie to fit with the costume) and the fact that she does not compose the music, what should have been her influence on Rock and Roll? She belongs in a fashion hall of fame. This shouldnot be about image or clothes.

Posted by Corroder on Wednesday, 02.21.07 @ 13:13pm


Madonna is a VERY strong contender for induction in her first year. On a musical scale, she may not be Aretha Franklin or Joni Mitchell in terms of *just* musical influence/impact, but she certainly has her fair share of acclaimed albums and singles, and her impact on entertainment and culture is incomparable. What she's done to express herself in her work.- i.e. videos, stage/show performances, adding a sense of adventure to pop music- just can't be ignored. She's the template for merging art and commerce. She definitely is one of- if not *the*- most impotant female entertainer of our time.

Posted by JT on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 01:41am


Just wanted to add that it's not about vocal abilities at all- heck, if Barbra Streisand ain't in the HOF, chances are slim for other big-voiced "divas" with great technical voices (especially if the materal has been weak compared to others). Madonna's got the whole package (competent voice, great material, icon status, etc.)

Posted by JT on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 01:46am


Like Bob Geldof said: "She's the Queen Bee of Rock 'n Roll"

Posted by geit on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 02:24am


SHE Deserve IT

PLEASE

Posted by LAISLA on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 04:46am


She deserves it

Posted by Who ever on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 12:53pm


Of course Madonna deserves to be inducted. Aside from her status as the most successful female singer of all time commercially, she writes, produces almost all of her material. She writes most of the melodies of her songs. She is one of the most critically acclaimed artist out there. That may come as a shock to most but most of her music is very well recieved by critics of all stripes. Her voice is just fine. The myth that she can't sing or is just OK was dispelled with her 1991 Oscar searing/bravura performance of Sooner or Later and her work in Evita.

Posted by Cindy on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 15:58pm


Madonna should be inducted. How many of you realize she started out in the punk underground of NYC for years before she became famous? She made a name for herself in the very cut-throat NYC underground in the late 70's/early 80's, performing night after night earning a loyal following. She played drums and guitar and wrote her own music. Her back story is quite fascinating. She was hanging out with the Beastie Boys, Andy Warhol, Basquiat, the Talking Heads, Patti Smith when they were no names. She is far from fluff. She deserves this!

Posted by Tommy on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 21:18pm


Madonna is NOT a Rock Star. She is Pop, always has been and very cheesy at it too, in the 80's and still is(hung up).

She was considered by some as the "Queen of Pop", even this title is debatable today with younger successful pop female artists such as Kylie, Christina and intially Britney who stole the pop crown from Madonna.

Posted by Miranda Raven on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 22:08pm


There is no doubt in my mind that she will be inducted......she has been a TREMENDOUS influence in pop music and culture....any artist who can top the album charts in over 41 countries after being in the business for over 20 years at the age of 47 deserves this honour in my books!

Posted by franklin on Thursday, 03.1.07 @ 07:03am


Britney stole her crown? doubt it, Britney is washed up and was never good to begin with. Madonna will always be the queen of pop, she still is the most successful female artist of all time, in terms of everything. Not Mariah, who hasn't done anything significant in her entire career, but only playing it safe.

Posted by Alex on Thursday, 03.1.07 @ 12:18pm


Madonna is absolutely rock! And she will be inducted. She has sold more than 200 million albums worldwide. No album sold more worldwide from November 2005 to November 2006 than her last CD, Confessions On A Dancefloor. Her music is far from cheesy. I could tick off 30 that wouldn't fit that category. She is the Queen of Pop and guess what? Pop is part of rock. No other female will be able to touch her legacy, ever. I wasn't a huge fan( just casual) until Ray of Light and then seeing her in concert. She is amazing. Much better live than I ever would have thought.

Posted by Gina on Thursday, 03.1.07 @ 15:36pm


I don't like her but she will be inducted it's sure. Just don't induct her for her first year, she's not a giant in rock history

Posted by roméo on Sunday, 03.4.07 @ 11:43am


Madonna is easily the most important figure in popular music since the 1960s, the last great superstar and an artist who has transcended genres and time unlike any other. She continues to influence artists, both musically and in performance. (Just about every stage tour from a female pop artist these days is a poor Blonde Ambition rip-off.) She has worked with critical darlings like Craig Armstrong, Massive Attack, Joe Henry, Jem, and Björk, and her videos practically defined the visual language of the artform. She is one of the very few artists who will still be a major cultural force when she is inducted.

More importantly, she has a devoted army of fans who will want to see her name in the Hall, and using her status as an inductee will help solicit donations and promote the institution. Ratings for Madonna's induction ceremony are likely to be much higher. From a financial perspective, it just makes sense.

The one thing to keep Madonna out is her unwillingness to bend to the Hall's demands. The reason Madonna does not have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame is because she will not pay for one nor show up for the dedication, prerequisites for the "honor." She may not get induction until they are assured she will show up.

Posted by Andrew on Wednesday, 03.7.07 @ 10:11am


She HAS to be included. I mean this should be a given.

Posted by Juan on Saturday, 03.10.07 @ 13:59pm


Of course she deserves to be inducted, come on!!! she's an mainstream icon!! Even if you do not like her music, she has made many contributions to Rock...

Can enybody tell me what contributions Britney Spears, Christina, has made to Rock n' Roll. And, for those people that said Britney Spears stole her crown...yeah oh right!....I would like to see Britney Spears 20 years later to see if she stills makes "records" as Madonna does today being close to turn 50 years old.

Posted by Sofico on Saturday, 03.10.07 @ 21:57pm


There is no doubt that Madonna should be a first-ballot inductee. Talent and influence abound.

Posted by Megawatt on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 10:12am


Both Janet and Madonna should be inducted at the same time!!!! Both true icons and have done so much for music in general (not just pop music). If one gets inducted, the other should as well! I don't see anyone else on the list more worth than those two...

Posted by Christina on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 12:08pm


Madonna's album was realeased in 1983, not 82.She will have ot wait til next year.

Posted by Mike_88 on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 12:37pm


Pop music is derived from Rock & Roll. And as for induction she is a shoe in. She is the first woman in pop culture that has had complete control of her image, sound, and style. Not to forget the music. She has a sound all her own and was one of the first people to integrate electronic music into the mainstream. Her music is always innovative, creative and fresh. No doubt she will be inducted.

Posted by Alex on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 18:27pm


Love Your Music, Love Madonna

Posted by Kricket on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 19:26pm


For those who do not think Madonna makes "rock" music, you lack education in song structure. Almost every song Madonna writes is in punk rock format. The difference is in production she uses synths to make it dance pop. And even with that said, "Like a Prayer" "Ray of Light" and "American Life" were clearly rock albums.

Also, Madonna has been composing her own material since her first album (in fact her first top five hit was written by Madonna- Lucky Star). True, Like a Virgin, Holiday, Material Girl and Borderline were not penned by Madonna, but the LPs they were on, Madonna had a heavy hand in writing.

With that said, there is a huge group of people Madonna has managed to piss off over the past twenty five years so who knows if they'll ever honour her.

Posted by sRe on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 00:19am


By far the front-runner for 2007. There is not a pop female singer today who isn't a direct or indirect imitator of Madonna. Without question, Madonna is the benchmark for Dance and Pop Rock for lots of artists today, including male stars. I always think she should start producing for other artists, but that would be focussing less on her art so i doubt it would be more than a 1-off shot.... GO MADONNA!!

Posted by Dylan on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 00:56am


Madonna should be inducted.Why?The biggest influence if anyone care to realise is that she is "clean", no history of breakdown, drugs, etc, .Overall she a role model to the artist today who cares to potray a positive image.And for going till today, who else has that energy?You Rock

Posted by joe on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 03:30am


MADONNA IS A MEGA ICON, SHE HAS BROKEN GROUND AND PLOWED THRU NEGATIVITY LIKE NO ONE ELSE HAS...NO OTHER WOMAN COMES CLOSE TO TOUCHING WHAT SHE HAS DONE FOR WOMAN PERIOD..SHE KICKED DOWN WALLS OF SEXISM AND SHOWED US ALL THAT A WOMAN CAN BE SEXUAL,LIBERATED,CONTROVERSIAL AND EXPRESSIVE ..A WOMAN CAN DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS, BE OUTSPOKEN , CHALLENGING AND IN DOING SO HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF HER SEXUAL IMAGE..SHE DOESNT NEED TO BE IN THE HALL OF ROCK FAME , SHE WILL ALWAYS AND FOREVER BE HONORED BY HER FANS..MADONNA WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS A FORCE THAT U CANNOT RECKON WITH..I LOVE U MADONNA , THANK U FOR WHAT U HAVE DONE FOR ME.

Posted by VANESSA on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 06:40am


Janet Jackson and Madonna both deserve to be inducted this year. They are both outstanding performing artists who started their careers at the exact same time eventually taking the world by storm. They have different styles and I like them both. Madonna just adopted a baby, and Janet is starring in Tyler Perry's movie in Feb 2008. Keep peace, let them both in.

Both have left a big impact on the lives of their fans. Madonna and Janet Jackson both rock!

Posted by Taylor Malloy on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 07:53am


No other Female artist comes even close to Madonna. She has proven herself to be an Amazing talent, she is Without a doubt the First and only Queen on Pop.

Posted by josej on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 10:19am


Madonna deserves any award she gets!! I love her so much!!!!!!!

Posted by Christy! on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 11:50am


madonna definitely deserves to be in this, it's hard for someone to stay on top of the music scene, and she has all this time! she's a great person all in all too! i can go on, but i have to go! bye! vote for madonna!

Posted by Nicki-Jean Flores on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 16:48pm


Of course she should be inducted on her first year! How's that even a question?!

Queen of pop, the real deal!

Posted by Bitch on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 21:54pm


YES!

Over twenty years keep her name as the queen of pop. Her name is already on the index of Encyclopedia...She is a patron of richest woman in the world list...Her recent activity...To help hunger and motherless innocent kids in Malawi,Africa that is remarkable her life style as a real professional singer.

She blessed by God, absolutely.

Posted by Tome on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 01:50am


Madonna is the only Queen Of Pop !

She really should be inducted on her first year. She is of course the most successful female of all time but she's also a real artist and she is still on top 25 years after the beginning of her career ! Just amazing !

Posted by Sebastien on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 15:16pm


Madonna has not only changed the pop world and influenced every female pop star, but she has also changed (both indirectly and directly) every musician, artist, vocalist, etc. in the music industry. Everyone - I mean EVERYONE - knows the name "Madonna". Even if they have never listened to her music, seen her music videos, or any of the movies she was in STILL know her name. Like it or not, Madonna is a house-hold name. Your three year-old daughter knows her name. Your grandmother knows her name. Madonna is an icon in today's society. To not have her inducted would be a crime against the music world.

Posted by Lenore on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 15:41pm


I do not understand the connection between Madonna and rock and roll. She has been a huge pop star over the past 25 years, but her musical genre is strictly pop. She has never crossed over to, or influenced anything or any artist in, rock and roll.

However, there are many artists in the hall that I don't feel qualify for this very reason (e.g., Michael Jackson, Gladys Knight, the Supremes). Madonna certainly qualifies given the fuzzy criteria for consideration.

Posted by Stan on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 18:23pm


Madonna the BEST woman for ever

Posted by KHEOPS (68) on Saturday, 03.17.07 @ 07:11am


mais si qu'elel doit y etre....elle a un parcour de combattant unique....et son influence sur la musique en général est énorme ainsi que sur les arts....je n'ai jamais compris pourquoi elle n'avait pas son étoile sur le hollywood walk of fame tout simplement parce qu'elle est une grande et les gens veulent la faire passer pour une petite...mais une reine demeure une reine.....

Posted by eric on Saturday, 03.17.07 @ 14:09pm


Madonna is the only queen of pop!

She is the best everytime and she is the queen of pop forever...

Posted by Meto on Saturday, 03.17.07 @ 16:01pm


On her albums Madonna's songs and her voice are cloudy .

Her albums really has not a true difference they both

Grammies shouldn’t be to reward scandals . Don’t do a rewarding for disappoint and imposition get more credibility be accurate .

Madonna should grow up and she is an insane person by the popularity when she gets the initiative to say in everywhere " hey I'm the queen of the Bible ! " and to do a crucifixion absolutely the pretension to win the attention for none relation for art . Madonna bases her career in scandals , bad examples and exploits women’s immage in scarcity of original ideas , creativity and effort , her new album follows with this custom for her doesn’t matter all this when she wins 1 or 2 dollars more


Madonna believe that the art isn`t an important part in our culture .
When I hear a Madona's song I think the same country who acquits the furtive publications on the media is the same who does a mediocre singer a notable one and the same who buys the madona's discs .

She nor with the furtive support of musical media tv her albumes has reciprocity sales , it shows a more big rejection for the albumes by people lately more . Definetively everytime on her acts she shows her interest for the commerce and the exploit and not by a true inspiration . Without some award there were recent albums better than Madonna’s and in addition she does insane scandals , saying that she is having a plot in opposition , animating the public to get an undemocratic and erroneous attitude ,and offending people of some media who does a just job . I guess it turns in an insane obsession of some persons about Madonna . It happens when a person bases a career in stereotypes and never get an artistic overcoming .

Madonna isn’t the origin of the fashion she isn’t who deserves a recognition .

Madonna is a bad representation of the pop music , there are other singers with more capacity , included great artists in who Madonna takes the inspiration , her albums are an inspiration from another people’s previous albumes . Those another people with the origin of ideas doesn’t deserves to be in contempt

Posted by Johanes J Williams . on Saturday, 03.17.07 @ 19:50pm


MADONNA HAS NEVER DONE ANY ROCK AND ROLL SONGS LIKE JANET JACKSON HAS DONE. MADONNA NEVER CROSSED OVER AND DID ROCK AND ROLL. JANET JACKSON CROSSED OVER INTO ROCK AND GOT A GRAMMY NOMINATION FOR HER ROCK AND ROLL SONG BLACK CAT.

JANET JACKSON SHOULD BE INDUCTED FIRST YEAR AND MADONNA TWO YEARS DOWN THE LINE OR NOT AT ALL.

Posted by JEFF on Sunday, 03.18.07 @ 07:47am


janet jackson should not be in the rock and roll hall of fame. i don't like janet jackson. what has she done? i've only heard one of her songs in my hole life. now madonna on the other hand i have heard her music my hole life. and i'm only 15 1/2. i've been listening her her since i was little. i love you madonna. <3

Posted by shelly on Sunday, 03.18.07 @ 12:17pm


As many have reiterated, Madge should be a shoo-in. She's in a league of her own in terms of merging art and commerce- her songs and albums have been acclaimed pieces of work (overall), and at the same time, have appealed to the masses. She has done more in her work, to impact both the culture and entertainment industry (positively) than any other female of the last 25 years. Any female who claims to not haveb een influenced or impacted by her- in some way- eitheri s in serious denial or just doesn't want to give her the props.

Looking forward to 2008, which should be a big year in MadonnaNation.

Posted by JT on Wednesday, 03.28.07 @ 11:12am


Ok.. here it goes..i believe Madonna like janet should be a first ballot easy entry into the Hall of Fame..its sad to see sheltered people like shelly who have never heard janet songs..WOW.. only VH1 at the house huh shelly..my only gripe is that madonna needs to stop with the what she does on tour..its like watching someones grandmother trying to still be sexy.. ITS NOT!!! time to hang em up or get em lifted madonna...That unitard can only do so much

Posted by J.J. Gonzales on Thursday, 03.29.07 @ 16:15pm


If Madonna gets in in her first year or two eligible after true inovators like Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell had to wait several years it will simply prove that going the bimbo route will get a woman more recognition than talent and this would be a sad, sad message to send the young girls growing up today.

Posted by NFB on Tuesday, 04.3.07 @ 20:13pm


Nothing against Madonna. But I see a pattern here.
Isn't it supposed to be who deserves it rather that who people like? I am not doubting Madonna's entry.
But there are artists being considered before ...Chicago,The Carpenters,Yes,ELP,Neil Diamond,Rush to me its ridiculous. Its like entering Mike Piazza in the Baseball Hall of Fame before Babe Ruth?
Madonna made her contribution to deserve it but its embarrassing to consider some of these artists I'm seeing before the lengendary Artists get their due.
Or else call it the Fan Favorite's Rock.

Posted by anthony rubbo on Tuesday, 04.3.07 @ 20:31pm


First of all Madonna DESERVES to be in the hall of fame, NO other artist except Elvis has impacted the music industry as Madonna has. This woman has more wanna be's than even Elvis. She is without a doubt the most famous person on the planet, she continues to deliver some of the best music ever made.

She is a great singer, she does not lip her concerts as the moral majority do, how many can put on a show like hers and still manager to sing it live? NONE. True some may have a better voice than Madonna but the same can be said about anyone you name...IT takes more than a good set of pipes to be a singer/artist/mega star/Icon/Legend/Goddess, Madonna has more than anyone else in these areas.

Guys love her or hate her, Madonna deserves this more than anyone since Elvis. Why anyone would dismiss her after she has proven herslef over and over again boils down to stupidity.

100 years from now Madonna will still be a legend and an Icon.

Long Live THe "QUEEN" Of Music.

Posted by Joshua on Sunday, 04.22.07 @ 22:54pm


Patti Smith? Joni Mitchell? Madonna a Bimbo? What are you on????

These two have no where come close to the impact Madonna has made on the industry. Madonna is no bimbo, NFB you should at least do some research, Madonna is one of the smartest buisness women in the world, she has sold the "bimbo" image sure but only at the start of her career. Madonna created vast images over the years. She is no bimbo and these two women don't hold a candle to her. A bimbo as you call it can only go so far, Madonna is what these two women will never be...ICONIC. Ask the majority of the people in the world who these other two women are and you will get this answer "NO IDEA" My grandmother does not even know who these two are but she knows who Madonna is.

If Madonna gets in in her first year or two eligible after true inovators like Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell had to wait several years it will simply prove that going the bimbo route will get a woman more recognition than talent and this would be a sad, sad message to send the young girls growing up today. This statement is laughable at best.

Posted by Eric on Sunday, 04.22.07 @ 23:01pm


Jeff are you on drugs??? Maybe you should buy a few Madonna albums or at least listen to them Madonna has done ROCK, POP, even country Lord she has touched on just about everything. Janet has a perthin voice backed up by computers, she lips her concerts, and just taged in on her brothers fame. Madonna is a far better artist in every since of the word than Janet, only a complete fooll would think any other way.

And before you get crazed on me I have a few Janet albums and a few Madonna albums, Janet has some good music but no voice the beats drown her out on every album, she could have never managed something like EVITA she could never sing a concert live from start to finish and perform as Madonna does. I like things about them both, Janet can dance, she has good producers that work magic on what little vocally she has to offer but in no way is she better than Madonna or impacted the music business the way Madonna has. You can live in a fantasy world all you want.

Jeff says:
MADONNA HAS NEVER DONE ANY ROCK AND ROLL SONGS LIKE JANET JACKSON HAS DONE. MADONNA NEVER CROSSED OVER AND DID ROCK AND ROLL. JANET JACKSON CROSSED OVER INTO ROCK AND GOT A GRAMMY NOMINATION FOR HER ROCK AND ROLL SONG BLACK CAT.

JANET JACKSON SHOULD BE INDUCTED FIRST YEAR AND MADONNA TWO YEARS DOWN THE LINE OR NOT AT ALL.

(LOL)

Posted by Isla on Sunday, 04.22.07 @ 23:09pm


She's still not in?
I don't even listen to her, but COME ON PEOPLE!
It's Madonna!

I'm appauled!

Posted by TopHat on Monday, 04.23.07 @ 07:46am


By any measure of the rationale behind having such an institution as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Madonna deserves her corner in it.

Her longevity and popularity is undebatable.

Rock Hall inductees need not play or write their own music. The voice is an instrument (Aretha Franklin, Sam Cooke, The Supremes) as is the mixing booth (George Martin, Phil Spector). What comes of it is innovative and groundbreaking - although what Madonna being described as groundbreaking isn't as accurate as turning half the world on its ear at least once every five years with the controversies she's been associated with.

Rebellion comes in many forms. Because Madonna did it writhing on a stage singing "Like A Virgin" instead of hoofing it around skanky clubs with a guitar and a 5-day growth of beard doesn't make it any less legitimate or meaningful.

She is stylish and fashionable. That's not all she is, but once more, the most popular and influential artists affect fashion. Long hair and the Beatles. Michael Jackson and sequins. Sex Pistols and ripped (piss stained?) clothing.


Rave on, Madonna.

Posted by Moni3 on Saturday, 05.5.07 @ 21:18pm


Madonna is a rockstar like Michael Jackson.They are not pop. She did disco/dance music, funk-dance. MICHAEL JACKSON did soul r&b ,funk-dance and hard rock/heavy metal. Madonna must be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Michael Jackson is the king of rock music.

Posted by hugo_boyfriend on Thursday, 05.10.07 @ 20:00pm


MADONNA MORE THAN DESERVES TO BE INDUCTED.

- She is punk-rock not only in the structure or form of her music but, more importantly, in "attitude" and in her rebelliousness

- She helped usher debates on sexual, gender, and even religious politics like no artist before her or since

- She is highly influential in a wide range of fronts: in fashion (she fused fashion to music like no other before her or since); imagery (her videos set the standard, and her "persona reinventions" have practically become a "must-follow" for most artists now, male or female); in staging concerts (the first female to heavily incorporate dance into her act and the first to stage concerts as if they were musical plays-- the standard now); in music itself (humanized & brought electronica to mainstream.. released one of the first remix albums..incorporated latin beats/culture waay before the latin wave.. etc.)

- She is a role model for women in the music industry in that she showed that they can be in control and that they can more than survive in it. An original "girl power" proponent by example.

- As to survival, her astounding lack of breakdown due to drugs or alcohol is inspiring and is deserving of notice esp. that among music stars, she's the #1 target of put-downs and criticisms-- in short, her megastardom hasn't made her crazy!

- "mainstreamed" more than the following: Underwear as outerwear, Voguing, Frida Kahlo, Kaballah..

- A global standard like Michael Jordan: famous (and controversial) female artists around the world are referred to as "..the Madonna of this (country).."

- She just puts out great music!: Into the Groove, Holiday, Like A Virgin, Live To Tell, Like A Prayer, Vogue, Ray of Light, and so many others are ajudged as classics; she has 4 albums in the Rolling Stones greatest list-- the most for a female artist.

- The "most famous woman in the world" says Time and Rolling Stones magazines..

- Had the "most successful vanity label" in history (Maverick)

- pioneer inductee (the only female) in the British Music Hall of Fame..

- only female ROCKER in the top ten of Life magazine's greatest rock and rollers

- Her numbers are phenomenal: the biggest-selling female artist GLOBALLY; the most hits in the net for a streamed concert ever; the highest-grossing concert tour for a female artist (had she prolonged and widened her tour the way the Rolling Stones did, she would've got the over-all title); 2 RIAA diamond certifications;
"Immaculate collection" the biggest selling greatest hits album for a female artist; "Like A Virgin" first female solo album to breach the 5 million unit sales in the US; Most top 5 singles for ANY artist in US & UK; "Confessions.." became no.1 in a record 41 countries, 23 yrs after her 1st music release; "Hung Up" single #1 in a record 40 countries; most #1 entries (album and singles) in the World Charts by a female artist; etc...

- She's still on top and is highly productive, relying more on her current output than on her back catalogue as opposed to most who constantly bank on nostalgia. She still pushes the boundaries of her music and creative horizons-- which can't be said of most of her contemporaries or even those who came after her..

Whew! Im.. Breathless!

NOW, AFTER ALL THESE, WHY THE HECK IS SHE NOT QUALIFIED WHEN MUCH LESSER ARTISTS HAVE BEEN?

CERTAINLY, SHE HAS A PLACE AT THE HEAD OF THE TABLE ALONG WITH THE BEATLES AND ELVIS..

Posted by brushpicks on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 08:18am


" She is punk-rock not only in the structure or form of her music but, more importantly, in "attitude" and in her rebelliousne

Sure! I can TOTALLY hear The Stooges doing "Borderline" and "Papa Don't Preach".

Brishpicks, Madonna is certainly an accomplished icon, but make no mistake - Johnny Lydon would shove her down and urinate on her leotard.

Posted by shawn on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 09:34am


I dunno. Madonna can scrap it out with some pretty big names. The woman has some enormous balls. Johnny Lydon is a punk guy, but Madonna has the very same attitude. The presentation is just different.

If Madonna weren't so commercially appealing, I think Johnny Lydon would applaud her making out with a black saint in front of burning crosses while dancing in her underwear - or the crucifixion imagery she just shocked Europe about.

She scares the shit out of Kurt Loder. Ever seen him try to interview her? He can't even meet her eyes he's so freaked out.

Posted by Moni3 on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 11:37am


""mainstreamed" more than the following: Underwear as outerwear, Voguing,...Kaballah.."

A positively shining set of acheivments there, no doubt.
Reminds me of how Jon Bonham and Bon Scott mainstreamed choking on your own vomit, or how Right Said Fred mainstreamed the torn mesh shirt, or what Marilyn Manson did for assless pants and men with creepy breasts.

Posted by shawn on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 13:14pm


'ello shawn,

in the scheme of things, john lyndon who?? and, yeah, let him TRY shoving Madonna down and piss on her leotards (& fishnets, i may add) and boy, oh boy, LET'S SEE... as to the "mainstreaming" of Manson et al of.. things, why don't you add Elvis' hip gyration and his enormous patella, Hendrix's burning of his guitar, Bowie's freaky ziggy make-up and bodysuit, Elton's shades and platforms, or even Iggy Pop's (who opened for Madonna at Slane) mainstreaming of blood and peanut butter facial smears? Im sure they were "shining achievements", too!.. And oh, why won't the Stooges do "borderline"? I guess you only either have to be angry and screaming, emo, or gross to be punk-rock...

Posted by brushpicks on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 19:04pm


"in the scheme of things, john lyndon who?? "

Yeah, feel free to keep talking about what's punk and what isn't, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

Posted by Kit on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 22:53pm


^ I don't expect anything. Why, do you for yourself? Don't worry, though, I won't keep on talking 'bout punk-rock: it's somebody else's hifalutin province. I'm contented with "mere" pop, thank you very much..

---

btw, whether or not Madonna is inducted, it doesn't matter: she still towers over all save for a very select few...

Posted by brushpicks on Sunday, 05.13.07 @ 03:07am


brushpicks & Moni3,

I concur with you that Madonna belongs in the Hall, without question, and I have complete respect for her career and her savvy.
I just think you both took a misguided exit in your travels down the Freeway of Reasons Madonna Belongs in the R&R Hall.

"Johnny Lydon is a punk guy, but Madonna has the very same attitude. The presentation is just different."

No...no, no. They are 2 different species, not just stylistic variations on a theme. Punk, at least in its purist form, which would include The Sex Pistol and The Ramones.. was positively scornful of mainstream musical culture and even flipped the bird at commercial appeal.
They flung their ball sweat at whatever resembled commercial gloss. They didn't give a fuck.

Madonna has ALWAYS been the antithesis of that. Every "rebellious" move she's made in her long career - (writhing around provacatively in a wedding dress to "Like a Virgin", playing the peep show dancer oppsite the horny kid in the "Open Your Heart" video, the big metal book of bondage and tongues - "Sex", and of course the "Like a Prayer" foofaraw over the burning cross imagery and the black saint...)

You aren't so naive as to believe that all that stuff and more were anything remotely "punk" are you? They were the polar opposite of shoving popularity away - they courted it! Madonna manipulates attention towards herself masterfully, she doesn't repel it!

Don't get me wrong - I admire her virtuosity at marketing herself - she's a champ! She's a pop-dance legend. But ple-e-e-a-ase don't be so gullible as to buy into the notion that she is cousins with Johnny Rotten!

Posted by shawn on Monday, 05.14.07 @ 10:03am


Well, take note: in no way was I claiming Madonna is a punk rocker or should her music be categorized as punk. It's not. It's pop and dance, if we have to categorize it (which, you know...I just don't like doing...) but punk is characterized not only by the DIY raw guitar music but lyrics that stick the middle finger up at the power scheme and bring social or political issues to light.

The Sex Pistols' target was the British government's economic policies in the late 70's, and Queen Elizabeth as (un)conscious symbol of oppression. Madonna chooses religion and sexuality and bishops, popes, and preachers. What concerned censors and conservatives most about Madonna was just how attractive it was to tell the Church to fuck off. She's in your face about it and it upsets a lot of people. Upsets them enough to consider her more of a presentation whore than a musician.

*That's* a punk attitude. That's rebellion. That's rock and roll.

But punk rock wouldn't be as popular either without the shocking presentation to go with, albeit shocking in an intentionally unattractive way: safety pins in the cheeks, odd piercings, and bless his heart but Joey Ramone was just not a pretty man. Ironic how popular punk became, despite all the punk rock bands' best efforts.

That Madonna looks hot doing it shouldn't discount her effectiveness.

Posted by Moni3 on Monday, 05.14.07 @ 21:45pm


"*That's* a punk attitude. That's rebellion. That's rock and roll."

Moni Moni,

I appreciate your attempt to paralell The Sex Pistols rebellion against the British Govt. with Madonna's in kind against the Catholic Church; good try - really!

But I still contend that you ahev been successfully seduced by the Queen of Pop and her savvy marketing skills. I sincerely say you have been successfully assimilated by the Material Girl. You have "bought" her "rebellious" image. She may have some lingering resentment from her past experience with the church....
but she has always been ALL about selling an image - one of audacity and sexual daring. This is all about putting her product out there - The Outrageous and "Rebellious" Madonna. It was so slick, you can't see the seams! You don't recognize the painstaking, calculatory marketing of it all. It really has nothing with a fundamental punk sensilbility, which is what we are debating.

Again, don'ty get me wrong - I applaud Ms. Vogue for her whip-smart presentation. I completely respect her. But she's a business woman first, foremost; rebellion is a tool for her, ahorse to ride only.

Posted by shawn on Tuesday, 05.15.07 @ 09:25am


I absolutely agree that Madonna is slick and all about packaging, but the message within is still as controversial and groundbreaking. And punk rockers like the Sex Pistols were just as dedicated to their image - just an entirely different image.

Maybe I'm assuming that you remember what it's like to worry about your reputation, to be called a slut, a whore, trashy, or any kind of name for breaking out of the virginal mold women have had to fit in for so long.

I don't wanna break out the fire barrel and the bras, but she is quite the feminist icon. Imagine a woman allowed to appear to like sex and not care what her elders, what the church had to say about it! Freakish! Scandalous!

Really, it was! It still is.

Actually, my insistence that her role as a rebel is not a try. It's reality for many women - and many men. That you don't believe it is ok. It's not your reality, which is why there are other musical acts that resonate for you that don't influence me.

Posted by Moni3 on Tuesday, 05.15.07 @ 09:57am


Moni,

The platform of unfettered and unapologetic sexuality Madonna has ran on since 1982 is what you dig - Ok, I get that. That's cool, and that's valid.
Madonna did seem to pioneer in the "it's my right to be kinda slutty if I want to" realm of popular culture.
I'm being glib - I see that you value her theme, and that's fine. I would argue that liking sex doesn't necessitate exuting sluttiness - for women or men, but that's a different discussion.

In the end Moni, I think our debate reaches a deadlock here where you say:
"I absolutely agree that Madonna is slick and all about packaging, but the message within is still as controversial and groundbreaking."

See, I'm saying that that "message within" - the one that touches you as a feministic cause - IS the slick element!
She counted on her sexuality to be controversial -she needed it to be... she USED that controversy as her angle. It has always been a sales tool.
Groundbreaking? OK, whatever. What would Christina Aguilera be without Like A Virgin? OK.

That her audacity resonates with you as something more meaningful is just a secondary bonus for Madonna - she built her audience by shock and buzz first, and then tapped into some people's sensibilities of liberation.

I'm not even saying she was completely full of shit; I think she really is sexually vibrant!

My point comes back to simply this: Johnny Rotten, Joey Ramone, and Iggy Pop really were ugly, angry little fuckers who found notoriety IN SPITE OF their inattention to "image".
Madonna had a master plan from the start, and worked her image masterfully, with strategy and manipulation and a sly wink.

Her accomplishments stand alone without trying to say she and Sid Viscious are kindred spirits.

Posted by shawn on Tuesday, 05.15.07 @ 15:40pm


She will probably enter... but i think there is dozens of artists that are more important and are not in so if we could let her out a few years it would be great.

Posted by roméo on Sunday, 05.27.07 @ 09:39am


Madonna is punk rocker in her heart & roots. She was a drummer and vocalist in her first punk band 'the Breakfast Club' in 1978, guitarist and vocals also lyricist in her second band 'Emmy'in 1980-1982, and she is writing producing since she started music career. She is a musician and artist! I VOTE "YES"

Madonna's RnR roots and pre-fame bands info: info/music/lyrics/videos/
www.drownedmadonna.com/punk/


Posted by Björk on Wednesday, 06.6.07 @ 17:05pm


In reference to the laughable post by "Miranda Raven": You mention that Britney stole Madonna'a "Queen of Pop" crown; I want to invite you to turn on your TV and tune in to any newscast featuring celebrity news. There is one young lady who shaved her head, entered herself into rehab, came dangerously close to dropping her son on the pavement while saving her Starbuck's, and who has not had an album release in a few years... who is this person?? Why, it's Britney Spears!!! "Miranda Raven"'s Queen of Pop!! Would you like to reconsider???

Posted by Bossman on Sunday, 08.5.07 @ 10:56am


I had to add another comment after reading more of the posts about how life as we know it will end if Madonna gets inducted. A theme that keeps popping up is that "Madonna is NOT Rock N Roll!!" At the top of this web page, there is a blurb about that; for those with ADD, I have reposted it: "But wait, you say that Madonna isn't 'rock', so she shouldn't even be eligible in the first place? Well, the Rock Hall doesn't say in it's eligibility rules that you must play rock music, just that you 'have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll.' And I doubt anyone would deny Madonna that."

Okay, that said: Madonna HAS tapped into rock. Anyone who has watched her last 20 or so performances, she has infused ROCK into some of her OLDER songs. And finally, someone mentioned that Janet Jackson was ROCK!! Would someone help me up from off the floor? I fell out of my chair laughing when I read that!!!

Posted by It's Me Again! on Sunday, 08.5.07 @ 11:08am


Would Love them to induct Linda Ronstadt and Madonna into the Hall at the same time.

Madonna would be nowhere on the world stage of rock stadiums and money wise without Linda Ronstadt being out in front.
Ronstadt who didn't do the ethereal Madonna bit or the Red Hot Mama routine that was forced on Janis Joplin was a just a pretty girl with a voice from God, daring to be sexy in a industry, at the time, where women were either groupies, part of the group, or thrown to the wolves to be gobbled up. I say, Madonna and Linda Ronstadt because they both "have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

Posted by SugarandSpice on Thursday, 08.9.07 @ 00:39am


To not induct her would be a total shame.To put it mildly, the woman is the only female artist who, after twenty years plus at the game, is not only still going strong, she is showing up girls more than half her age(hello, britney, christina, pink, beyonce, yada yada yada ).....Like her or not, hate her or love her, The Queen is certainly not dead. And by the way, she was the only woman given an immediate induction into the English Hall of Fame. She is still the only female artist to be in that club, too. You think the Brits know something we don't? Doubt it.

Posted by nashvilleboy on Friday, 08.10.07 @ 04:27am


Response to:
It's Me Again,

The reason people say Janet Jackson is rock is because she recorded rock & roll music that was in the rock and roll category on the billboard music charts-that's why. You can get up off the floor now. She has been recording rock and roll music since 1989, all the way to 2001 on her All For You album.

Not only that, one of Janet Jackson's rock and roll songs that was in the rock & roll caterogy on the billboard charts, "Black Cat" was nominated for a Grammy, and that song was in the top five on the hot 100 charts for weeks.

Posted by guess on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 08:17am


Hey "Guess" I am not disputing whether or not Miss Janet deserves to be inducted... she should. My reaction to her title of "Rock" performer drew my reaction because that person argued that Madonna wasn't rock, but claimed Janet was. Both deserve to be inducted, not because either of them "rock" or not, but because they are true entertainers.

I will say though that it takes more than one single and a Grammy nomination to define a performer as "rock."

Posted by It's Me Again on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 13:15pm


Madonna's first recording, "Everybody," was released Oct, 1982. This is her 25th year as a recording artist. She is definitely eligible, the class of 2007. I hope she gets inducted immediately. After all, she is the Queen Bee of Rock and Roll!

Posted by Sheppy on Thursday, 08.30.07 @ 13:05pm


Well, I think she is truly desrving to be in the league with such great artists. Definitely, Madonna will go down the history books as one of the most successful and influential artist there ever is and because of her continuous challenge against the taboo, she has made herself one evolutionary being. With records sales of over 200 million units and most top 10 singles worldwide, Madonna is definitely a shoo-in.!

Good Luck & all the best!

Posted by lasky on Thursday, 09.20.07 @ 06:59am


Half of you need to READ before you post comments, sheesh. The Hall of Fame flat out says you do not have to be a "rock and roll" artist to be inducted, you just have to had made a lasting impression on the industry and shaped music in some capacity. And I strong doubt even the naysayers could argue Madonna's impact. Yes she is the Queen of Pop, so what? If you look through the list of past inductees you will see the majority of them would not be considered rock and roll. Ray Charles anyone? Also, some of you may want to pick up the liner notes to a Madonna album sometime to note that she does indeed write or co-write as well as producer all of her material since her first album. True many, hell most pop artists just sing the songs given to them, but Madonna isn't and never has been one of them.

Posted by V on Thursday, 09.27.07 @ 23:36pm


Alot of Madonna fans are real bitches and back stabbers and jealous of other artists.

Im not, i can judge each artist of there merits.

I think she should be included.

Posted by dean on Friday, 09.28.07 @ 04:39am


madonna should wait a few more years so that other older musicians on the 2008 ballot like The Ventures, Leonard Cohen, Dave Clark Five and Donna Summer. people who've been around a LONGER
amount of time. her time will come eventually

Posted by danny on Friday, 09.28.07 @ 07:59am


I don't understand the debate. Look at the list of artists who have already been inducted. There are soul acts, R+B acts, Motown acts, etc. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducts artists/groups who've made a signficant contribution to music. Madonna, without a doubt, has done that. Her massive sales, hit songs, record-breaking tours, revolutionary videos, fashion, and attitude make her the ultimate musical icon...one who will be forever considered a legend.

Posted by thethirdroy on Friday, 09.28.07 @ 18:37pm


I can't believe Madonna hasn't been voted in years ago! I visited the hall of fame last year and was shocked not to see her. She had brought so much change and has accomplished so much in the industry, she deserves it.

Posted by Christine on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 12:03pm


Just because she's mega famous does not make her deserving of the nomination. She lip synchs and doesn't write much of her own music. I find her much more ambitious than talented. Further, she doesn't even know who John Paul Jones is.

Posted by EYG on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 20:05pm


Personally, I've never understood what all the hoopla was about with Madonna. Musically, she's just someone who released a lot of mainstream, catchy, fluffy dance pop, and who followed trends rather than created them. She is somebody who, very astutely, figured out the formula for long-term fame (become a fashion icon, create a lot of controversy, and fuck lots of famous people), and stuck to it religiously. Amazingly, it worked. Even when it became so blatantly obvious that she was stirring up controversy for controversy's sake, and doing guys like Warren Beatty and Dennis Rodman in order to keep her image in the limelight, the world fell for it. She became far more famous, and remained famous far longer, than her modest musical talent ever warranted. Through it all, the music never evolved much. 25 years into it, she's still churning out the same vapid dance ditties she always has. In that sense, I guess, she's been an influential figure: she was the original image-over-substance star. Thanks to her, we have someone like Britney Spears, who would have been lucky to last 2 years back in the 60's or 70's, going on 10 years as a top-selling artist. What truly baffles me, though, is how she is actually taken seriously as an artist in some circles. Artistically, there is just nothing there.

Posted by ezwriter on Wednesday, 10.3.07 @ 12:43pm


The most manipulative, blasphemous and generally BAD influence on culture-especially young girls-in the past 50 years other than perhaps Wenner himself. Obviously not shown enough attention as a child. Had to dye her hair blonde to be like Marylin Monroe. Had to take off her clothes to get a record contract and release a book of obscene photographs to keep her career going in the 90's.

Wrote/performed/danced to some OK bubblegum songs along the way, but in the end-OVERRATED.

Synthetic corporate materialism.

Society can do better.

Posted by SG on Wednesday, 10.3.07 @ 23:32pm


While I am by no means a fan I've never bought one of her albums (but I did buy the issue of penthouse: does that count?) her impact on music is indisputable.

Posted by toyologist on Thursday, 10.4.07 @ 16:24pm


Ah, let her in already. She's good people.

Posted by frida on Friday, 10.5.07 @ 10:52am


Lucky Star = Shit
There isn't any greater garbage song than this which illustrates why Madonna's music is BORING! That's right, her music is boring! Should she be selected at least there'll be a place to take a crap.

Posted by M.T. Music on Monday, 10.29.07 @ 20:06pm


Now now, everybody knows the ZZ Top exhibit is where you exude your fecal matter and possibly leave a pearl necklace. Ew.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 10.29.07 @ 22:08pm


I'm no Madonna fan, but sometimes you hear tunes on the radio, and you gotta sing.

Posted by Tom on Sunday, 11.11.07 @ 10:46am


Sex sells !!! You guys know that shit...

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 11.12.07 @ 09:15am


Ah, gotta love the anti-Madonna brigade- that lil' contingent has been there from the start and always will be there. Thankfully, there are more people that indeed do recognize her importance to entertainment/music and culture, and do see that her music has enjoyed a decent amount of acclaim through her career. To get a little bit of an idea, pop over to the Acclaimed Music Web site- it may hurt your eyes, though. :)

Like many say, a no-brainer- the most important female performer of the last 50 years, undoubtedly.

Posted by JR on Friday, 12.7.07 @ 21:02pm


Is the Hall blind??????? Madonna is not Rock and Roll but teeny bopper Pop music that in my opinion is mere crap. Why doesn't she cut the crap with the fake British accent and go fuck herself, because she's not worthy of taking an honor like that.

Posted by harry on Wednesday, 12.12.07 @ 20:52pm


I think the words "teeny bopper" should be taken out of the vernacular and shot into the sun. At best it's a warning that what's to follow isn't worth reading.

Posted by William on Thursday, 12.13.07 @ 00:25am


The haters can finally shut up....Madonna is IN! Congrats M!!!

Posted by Dagi on Thursday, 12.13.07 @ 15:00pm


At Last...

The is Queen of Pop is a HALL OF FAMER!

Hail The Queen

Posted by Jesse Ayad on Thursday, 12.13.07 @ 17:52pm


You have to sign our petition:

Keep Madonna out of The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum !!


Please go here and stand up for Rock and roll!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/nohallmc/petition.html

Posted by Super Amanda on Tuesday, 12.25.07 @ 20:29pm


Geit:Like Bob Geldof said: "She's the Queen Bee of Rock 'n Roll"


Bogb Geldof SUCKED that day and should have his teeth kicked in by my boobs.

Posted by Super Amanda on Tuesday, 12.25.07 @ 20:31pm


Madonna released her 1st single in 1982, which makes her eligible for induction in 2007(yes her 1st album was in 1983, but her 1st recording is what makes her eligible). For the past 25 years, only three artists have made global impacts on music: Michael Jackson, Prince and Madonna. No other female artist has or will have the same impact on music, pop culture, politics, religon, sex and social awareness. Truly a global artist, icon and entertainer, Madonna more than deserves to be inducted in her 1st year. The Queen of Pop's musical influences DO include Rock, R&B, Country, Electronic, Goth, Punk, Disco, Jazz as well as Pop(Like A Prayer, Ray of Light, American Life, Music and Confessions on a Dance Floor are testaments to that fact). I was listening to Madonna 25 years ago, I was listening to her today and I will be listening to her in 25 years. Congratulations Madonna, you more than deserve it.

Posted by jjcar69 on Wednesday, 01.2.08 @ 23:10pm


She must win everywhere....
She's a shining star....

Posted by munna on Tuesday, 01.8.08 @ 04:13am


Hey Super Amanda, got a question for you, darling... did your petition to keep Madonna out of the HOF work? LOL

Posted by SCM on Tuesday, 01.8.08 @ 21:59pm


It doesn't matter it's important that people stand up for rock n roll even when the hall is joke. In away her induction makes the Hall a true an complete pointless exercise in corporate media self indulgence and reciprocal ass licking so much so that starting a new way to honor the true architects and heroes of rock like mandonna)will be viable.

I would be more concerned that most of you sound like madonna defense bots spewing out stats and money numbers. After twenty five years she can't act and she can barely sing so some of us just aren't impressed enough to consider her a star or an icon. Though I'm sure you can get Right wing Cuban class acts madonna fawners like Perez Hilton and Ingrid 'let's chill with murders' Casares to agree with you.

Posted by Super Amanda on Sunday, 01.13.08 @ 02:24am


"In away her induction makes the Hall a true an complete pointless exercise in corporate media self indulgence and reciprocal ass licking so much so that starting a new way to honor the true architects and heroes of rock like mandonna)will be viable."

"Like Mandonna (sic)"?????

Your post is so reckless and lazy that you have left me having no idea whether you support or lament her induction; WTF?

This site's population has become a bad neighborhood now, for the most part. If we don't get misanthropic assholes like Anon, Dameon or danny agitating everyone, then it's all fanboy drivle from morons who think they are petitioniong thge actual Hall for Melanie/Tom Jones/Motley Crue, or it's mouth breathers who spew disposable nonsense not worth the read.

The days of good conversation are gone.
R.I.P. Willaim, Dezmond, S.G., c.w., Casper, A-Klla, Liam(most of the time, mate :) ), and of course Kit.

I am out of here, for reals. It was fun once.
Nice job with the basic site - but you really, really have to change the way you declare the Essential Album - lose the tie to whatever lame sales site it now is determined by and make your own statement about what album is truly essential; it will be a far more interesting and stimulate conversation.

Shawn

Posted by shawn on Sunday, 01.13.08 @ 09:44am


OK shawn, here's some recommendations, if you're still there:

Screamadelica - Primal Scream
The Stone Roses - s/t
Bummed - Happy Mondays
Power, Corruption & Lies - New Order
Modern Life Is Rubbish - Blur
In It For The Money - Supergrass
Melting Pot - Charlatans
Suede - Suede
His N Hers - Pulp
Psycho Candy - J&MC
Holy Bible - Manic Street Preachers
The Correct Use of Soap - Magazine

I don't think I'd ever leave indefinitely - it's not like moving house; it's just a website. But I might choose to quieten down and stop using this site so frequently some time soon.

Posted by liam on Sunday, 01.13.08 @ 11:07am


I will eventually get each and every one of those cd's, Liam; thanks for the tips.
I'll maybe "see" you in a couple months.

Posted by shawn on Sunday, 01.13.08 @ 22:48pm


Lets see, Madonna's in before Wanda Jackson...what a joke!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 01.27.08 @ 08:04am


It's truly amazing how stupid and uninformed the Madonna haters are . They think they are so intelligent but everything they say is wrong. They know nothing but act like they are Madonna experts. Look into something a little more deeply before you spew out a load of crap that is used to cover up your jealousy of a strong, intelligent , sexy, and talented woman. Well, my point is she never needed idiots like you to become the greatest and biggest female singer of all time. Congratulations Madonna!!!!

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 02.19.08 @ 23:42pm


"It's truly amazing how stupid and uninformed the Madonna haters are"-JOHN

Seems like tou're the stupid and uninformed one! Madonna, lets just say, had a whole lot of help!! Like I said before, she's plain and simply a "media creation", a modern day Fabian!! Thank goodness she has people like you to line her pockets and make her think she's something she's not!! Without all the other crap she did, do you really think her music would've stood up by itself (and I use the phrase "her music" lightly)? When she starts handing out "thank yous" in her induction speech, it's probably going to last a long time, all the people she has to thank. But knowing Madonna, she'll probably spend that time patting herself on the back!!

If you don't believe it, take a good, HARD look into her background before you spout off again!!

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 02.20.08 @ 06:35am


Madonna is truly The Queen. American media should be more careful with Madonna because she is America's most precious cultural icon. She has sold 200 million albums and 100 million singles and only other 3 musical acts are in her class. From an artistical point of view she is, by far, the most talented and gifted artist in popular culture. Grammy should give her some awards in 2009 for her next album in compensation for the awards that she missed because of the controvery in her career.

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.21.08 @ 09:02am


Some facts on Madonna;

-she has NOT sold 200 million albums...she's not even in the top 10 in all-time sales! Nor has she sold 100 million singles! Where did those ridiculous numbers come from??

-Shania Twain, Whitney Houston, Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, and yes, Britney Spears all have albums that have sold more than anything Madonna has done (Shania Twain and Whitney Houston have TWO). Check out the history of Billboard!!

-If it weren't for the controversy, Madonna wouldn't even HAVE a career!!

-The All-American girl that she is doesn't even live in this country anymore!!

-Every movie except one (that's because she had a supporting part) that she's been in has BOMBED (She couldn't even get a Broadway classic like "Evita" right!!!)

-She's more known for lewd behavior than she is for her music. Now, seriously...what is she doing when she makes headlines...singing???

Now the statement about being "the most talented and gifted artist in popular culture", well, lets just say it's lucky I had some Pepto Bismol!!!

Posted by Terry on Thursday, 02.21.08 @ 16:32pm


Madonna the one and only Queen of Pop. She really desearves to be in The Rock Hall. She has the talent and the genius. On a worldwide scale (she is one of the few BIG international superstars to come from America)Madonna has sold more than 200 million albums and more than 100 million singles. The total-300 million records. She is practically the best performer of all times. The figure for over 200 million albums is official, you can find it on IFPI.com when they recognised her album Confessions selling over 4 million copies in Europe (4 Platinum). She has in fact also sold over 110 million singles worldwide (including downloads). It's all on Wikipedia and also other more reliable sources. Madonna is truly the biggest female icon in popular music on a worlswide scale. Luv u Louise Ciccone you are the best.

Posted by papi on Friday, 02.22.08 @ 15:20pm


And Terry Billboard only tells the story in USA not for the whole world. The Beatles don't have the biggest selling albums ever and still they are the by far the biggest selling music act ever.This is also the case for Madonna among female performers so don't you worry I know that other women have albums that have enjoyed a lot of success. MADONNA THE BEST.

Posted by papi on Friday, 02.22.08 @ 15:28pm


And Terry if it weren't for the controversy Madonna would have sold even more records and would heve been even a greater artist. Controversy and sex don't sell, this is a misconception the idea that if u're sexy and showing off people will buy your product. Still Madonna has shown to the WHOLE WORLD (not only BILLBOARD or USA)how it IS DONE and HOW nobody else will be ever capable of DOING IT. MADONNA FOREVER

Posted by papi on Friday, 02.22.08 @ 15:38pm


Did you like, forget to take your take your medication? Billboard has worldwide, too. There are so many artists more deserving than her, and you aren't building a very good case. Entertain me with music, and she's average at best. Like I said, she had a whole lot of help...go do some research!! Why don't you go, like, throw your underwear on stage when you see her? The word "fan" is derived from the word "fanatic", and you're good case study.

Posted by Terry on Friday, 02.22.08 @ 16:09pm


Gee, I tallied her WORLDWIDE sales and do you want to know something??? They do offer math classes online! Now do you really want me to tally all the other artists I mentioned?? Probably not!

Posted by Terry on Friday, 02.22.08 @ 16:33pm


Madonna has worlwide sales of 300 million records. Madonna is RIGHT NOW the BIGGEST SELLING RECORDING FEMALE ARTIST EVER with albums sales of over 200 million copies and singles sales of over 100 million copies(including downloads). She has been so for more than a decade and I also know that during this decade other female performers have PAID to be called so in different public appearances and shows.
Dear Terry, don't you worry, I know where other big female sellers stand and their wordwide sales total are nowhere near Madonna's.
Madonna desearves more than anybody to be in the US R'n R' HALL OF FAME.

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 06:08am


Just curious if anyone else in here is a little peeved at the mishandling of the Madonna/No Performance situation??
I mean, seriously, how brain dead must you be not to consult this years top draw about whether she feels like performing at your ceremony or not??
Maybe its just me
LOL

Posted by vic on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 08:36am


Madonna has worlwide sales of 300 million records. Madonna is RIGHT NOW the BIGGEST SELLING RECORDING FEMALE ARTIST EVER with albums sales of over 200 million copies and singles sales of over 100 million copies(including downloads). She has been so for more than a decade and I also know that during this decade other female performers have PAID to be called so in different public appearances and shows.
Dear Terry, don't you worry, I know where other big female sellers stand and their wordwide sales total are nowhere near Madonna's.
Madonna desearves more than anybody to be in the US R'n R' HALL OF FAME.

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 08:38am


Dear Clueless,

"She is the highest ranking female artist on the Recording Industry Association of America's (RIAA) Top Selling Artists list.[1] She has sold approximately 145 million albums worldwide."[citation needed]

The above statement refers to Barbra Streisand (who I'm also not a big fan of), but go check out HER credentials before you do any more mindless babbling.

Ont thing that might comfort you...there's a lot of adult film stars grateful for her influence!

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 11:54am


Hey, papi...Maybe you can start a petition to start a "Humpbag Hall Of Fame"...Madonna would definitely be hands down FIRST BALLOT!

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 12:07pm


Madonna has worlwide sales of 300 million records. Madonna is RIGHT NOW the BIGGEST SELLING RECORDING FEMALE ARTIST EVER with albums sales of over 200 million copies and singles sales of over 100 million copies(including downloads). She has been so for more than a decade and I also know that during this decade other female performers have PAID to be called so in different public appearances and shows.
Dear Terry, don't you worry, I know where other big female sellers stand and their wordwide sales total are nowhere near Madonna's.
Madonna desearves more than anybody to be in the US R'n R' HALL OF FAME
Dear Terry Madonna is RIGHT NOW the BIGGEST SELLING RECORDING FEMALE ARTIST EVER on a worldwide scale.
The US music market counts for only 30-40 percent of the world market and even there Madonna is very close to Barbra.
Outside the US Madonna's HUGE international succes can not be compared to Barbra's, in fact from all the American music acts it can only be compared to a certain black entertainer.
I'm talking about he whole world- IFPI, not just US-RIAA.

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:36pm


"Madonna desearves more than anybody to be in the US R'n R' HALL OF FAME"

WRONG! Sales don't mean anything.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:37pm


THANK YOU LIAM!!!

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:44pm


WELCOME TERRY!!!!!

I was actually gonna go for a whole "Do not pass Go"-style comment to Papi, but I honestly didn't feel sarcastic enough to do so.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:49pm


Dear Terry, here is a strong credential taken from IFPI.com in 2006, when they gave Madonna the 4th PLATINUM award in EUROPE for her album Confessions on a dancefloor:

"Enduringly popular 'Queen of Pop' Madonna has seen sales of her latest album Confessions On A Dancefloor go from strength to strength, as it also gains its fourth Platinum Europe Award since its release last November. The disco-inspired album is the eleventh studio offering from the American, who has sold over 200 million albums worldwide throughout her illustrious career. Madonna is currently on the European leg of her Confessions world tour, still wowing her army of fans with show-stopping performances after more than two decades in the business."

So if The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)says that Madonna has sold over 200 million albums worldwide who are we to contradict them?

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:50pm


"So if The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)says that Madonna has sold over 200 million albums worldwide who are we to contradict them?"

You're missing the point. It's all about Influence and Innovation in music. Sales have absolutely no reflection on the aforementioned.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:54pm


Look, I've been a musician for about 40 years, have followed rock and branched out into other forms of music (because I was influenced to do so), so I consider my music knowledge and taste to be somewhat diverse...I like a wide variety of music and very rarely do I dislike something. That being said, I wouldn't buy anything by Madonna if you held a gun to my head! That's how insignificant I think she is. You'd be surprised how many people are shaking their head over this nomination!

Nothing you say or do, no statistics, nothing is going to convince me that she's more than a cut-rate entertainer and B movie actress (at best) who got her mug on Rolling Stone a few times (only wat I can think of why she's in). There are most certainly a lot more female artists who are way more deserving of this honor!

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 14:56pm


1.MJ has not sold 750 million records and Thriller has not sold 104 million copies. Both numbers are inflated at least two times.
2.Madonna is, AS WE SPEAK, bigger than MJ in terms of sales with her 300 million records sold.

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 19:00pm


Thriller became the biggest selling album of all time with worldwide sales reaching over 104 million copies.[36]

Off the Wall, buoyed by its catchy dance rhythms and avoidance of the "shallow excesses...of the period's disco,"[31] eventually sold some 20 million copies worldwide

Bad still holds the record for generating more #1 hits on the Billboard Hot 100 charts than any other album.[57] It went on to sell over 32 million copies worldwide and the RIAA certified Bad at 8x Platinum.[57]

In November 1991, Jackson released Dangerous, which, at roughly 30 million copies worldwide

In June 1995, Jackson released HIStory: Past, Present And Future - Book I,[74] which went on to sell 18 million copies worldwide and is the largest selling multiple-disc album of all time by a solo artist

Invincible went on to sell nearly 8-10 million copies worldwide. [90] The album spawned three singles: "You Rock My World," "Cry," and "Butterflies."

Obtained ay Wikipedia...does not include Jackson Five.

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 20:27pm


In November 2006, the World Music Awards announced that Jackson had sold over 750 million units worldwide

Also from Wikipedia...

Future Rock Hall...you're right, this is tiresome. I try to convey my thoughts with objectivity, and for numerous reasons I plain and simply don't believe Madonna deserves induction. The powers-that-be seem to think otherwise. I also do my best to back up my comments with fact...as seen in my last two entries. I will always do my best to be objective. Please excuse my involvement in this nonsense.

TER

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 20:40pm


Terry you say MJ has sold 750 million records
-in the US he has 60 Platinum (RIAA)for albums and let's say with the singles a total of 100 million records

can you tell us where the other 650 million records come?
ok I'm guessing know and have the crack laugh of the day:

400 million records in Europe
100 million in Asia
100 million in South America
50 million in Canada and Australia?

really so is like in europe canada and australia all the populations have bought a MJ album?

I don't know who is more delluded you or the World music Awards bought by sonny
at least when they lied about dion they were more subtle 175 million albums -another lie

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 23:40pm


and the awards from the guiness book ex thriller 104 million, really but? how could they track his sales if not requesting them from his record company sonny or sonny simply buying certificates for michael for advertising

isn't it weird that sonny always has the biggest sellers michael mariah than when she left it became dion?

and by the way elvis has sold more than michael he is 118 platinum in america compared to michael 73
outside the us Mj doesn't outsell elvis by that margin to recover the gap
thriller has sold roughly 50 million no way more than this
us-27 platinum
uk 4 million
germany +france 7 million
italy 700 hundred
brazil 1.9
spain 1 million
etc
maximun 55 million


and about bad and dangerous u really have hallucination 32 million? u don't know shit
hystory 11 million
invincible max 6 million

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 23:51pm


off the wall
around 12 million

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 23:57pm


mj real sales
off the wall max 13 million
thriler max 60 million
bad max 28 million
dangerous max 23 million
history max 13 million (26 million discs)
blood on the dancefloor max 8 million
invincible max 7 million
others max 30 million

total max 200 million albums
singles max 100 million
records max 300 million


madonna-albums
max 10 million
max 20
max 22
max 6
max 6
max 13
max 7
max 29
max 7
max 8
max 9
max 11
max 17
max 13
max 7
max 5
max 9
others max 3
total madonna albums over 200 million
total singles over 110 million (including downloads)

the idea they are both rather close at 300 million although i think madonna has a little edge over him


Posted by papi on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 00:19am


I am not going to enter this little skirmish on Madonna. She is in and that is that. She is an excellent Pop performer who struck a nerve back in the early 80's and never let go. I never liked her music, but not everyone liked Mott the Hoople either, so who am I to say. I give her kudos for what she has accomplished, but IMO, if she never appeared on the scene, I don't think the music scene that I have loved for all these years would be all that affected.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 00:30am


The information I got on Michael Jackson came from Wikipedia...I guess they don't know shit. Complain to them if they torched your little fantasy.

As for me, I believe FutureRockHall wanted this to cease, which I'm willing to abide by. Not everyone thinks she should be in, but she is. I will choose to ignore it. Too many other influential and innovative artists not getting in, not either of our fault. If you mention my name again, I will complain vociferously to the people who operate this site...'nuff said!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 05:29am


Dameon, I agree with you, she's in and that's that! I've been around since Rock & Roll began, and I don't agree either, but I don't get a vote.

Just out of curiosity, I looked at wiki and saw that those Jackson numbers were in fact accurate. But who cares? Lots of "big sellers" aren't in.

Papi, it seems Terry doesn't want any more to do with this...you should leave him/her out of it. Your obvious "favorite" has been voted in, relish in that. As for me, I don't care for her, and that's all that matters to me. If you want stats,,,number of Madonna anything purchased by st0rmy...zero.

Posted by st0rmy on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 05:51am


Anybody care to comment on the rumor that she will NOT be performing??
Whats up with that?
I guess if she cannot have complete and utter control of a situation, then thier will be no performance-
Guess its her way or the highway

Posted by vic on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 06:06am


Not really - who cares? Does anyone know who is giving the induction speech for her?

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 08:25am


Dameon...all VH-1 said was that she'll be there but won't perform (and they aren't happy about it), no word on who will perform. It's a shame, because Mike Smith would love to perform but can't...heard something about Springsteen standing in for him.

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 08:36am


Has Madonna stated why she won't be performing????????

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 15:36pm


It feels like she thinks the honor is beneath her...no real reason, she's just not going to!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 02.24.08 @ 15:38pm


Have you ever heared of a song called RESCUE ME? If not, you should know that is on Madonna's album THE IMMACULATE COLLECTION and is one of the most AMAZING VOCAL PERFORMANCE ever by any musician.
Madonna QUEEN OF POP
Also a song written by her "Burning Up" (1992) is one of the best rock and roll song ever.
Madonna QUEEN OF POP




Posted by UPI on Monday, 02.25.08 @ 04:09am


Madonna is one of the biggest selling American music acts outside the US,in fact the biggest according to my estimations. She is, in this regard, one of the 2 or 3 American artists to have sold more than 100 million albums outside the US.
I invite all who read this to prove to me that Madonna is not an intellectual GENIUS by giving me the right interpretation of her FROZEN video/song, the most profound MASTERPIECE EVER. If you give this interpretation than Madonna is not a GENIUS but only an highly gifted performer.

Posted by papi on Monday, 02.25.08 @ 13:07pm


I'm not even going to bother with you, Papi. You clearly need help, and I'm not just referring to bolstering your record collection.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 02.25.08 @ 13:20pm


Papi don't preach.

Posted by Blue on Monday, 02.25.08 @ 14:11pm


LOL!

Blue, are you secretly Shawn under a mask? I'm pretty sure... ;D

Posted by Liam on Monday, 02.25.08 @ 14:13pm


MADONNA IS IN THE HALL, YEAH BABY!!!!!!!! DID IT MATTER WHAT THE IDIOT HATERS THOUGHT, NO WAY!!!! IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. ALL YOUR CRYING AND HATRED CAN'T BE GOOD FOR YOU !

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 12:32pm


John...I do have one good thing to say...go away!!!

Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 12:44pm


According to this site, Justin Timberlake will be doing the induction ceremony. I guess N'Sync and the Backstreet Boys are only a couple of decades away from being inducted now. Brit cannot be far behind.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a bad idea gone horribly wrong and is now floundering in the depths of hell. Kind of reminds me of something else of which I will not mention.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 12:46pm


Someone need to start from scratch with an entirely new Rock or Popular Music Hall of Fame, with an entirely different paradigm and approach to it all. The numbers and types of nominees and indctees, the selection process, the dates (25 years is too goddamn long), the industry bullshit - this was just some private club started by Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh, so will somebody else please step up and establish a better club?

Posted by Blue on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 15:54pm


So, Justin Trousersnake is gonna present her...isn't that lovely! Is he gonna sing for her too???

Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 17:53pm


TERRY, DO YOU NEED SOMEONE TO GET MORE TISSUES. YOU MUST HAVE RUN OUT BY NOW.

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 19:39pm


John, why don't you go do something useful and write a synopsis on the nuances of some stupid Madonna video. It's not Madonna's fault she's being inducted, it's the idiots who voted for her. Nominations like this lessen the "Hall of Fame"s credibility and for that, I agree whole-heartedly with Blue's comments...hopefully someone will start a real one.

As for you, you are about as insignificant as she is to me, so go try to start a pissing contest with someone else. Revel in her induction, but do it around someone who cares what you think. Like I said before...go away!!

Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 20:22pm


Madonna rules forever

Posted by papi on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:13pm


Madonna is one of the biggest selling American music acts outside the US,in fact the biggest according to my estimations. She is, in this regard, one of the 2 or 3 American artists to have sold more than 100 million albums outside the US.
I invite all who read this to prove to me that Madonna is not an intellectual GENIUS by giving me the right interpretation of her FROZEN video/song, the most profound MASTERPIECE EVER. If you give this interpretation than Madonna is not a GENIUS but only an highly gifted performer.

Posted by papi on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:15pm


Terry why don't you stop having opinions about Madonna, we don't need them and we are not interested in your comments about her. Madonna is by far the best solo artist in the history of popular music.

Posted by papi on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:19pm


Terry you say MJ has sold 750 million records
-in the US he has 60 Platinum (RIAA)for albums and let's say with the singles a total of 100 million records

can you tell us where the other 650 million records come?
ok I'm guessing know and have the crack laugh of the day:

400 million records in Europe
100 million in Asia
100 million in South America
50 million in Canada and Australia?

really so is like in europe canada and australia EVERY SINGLE PERSON has bought a MJ record? really?

I don't know who is more delluded you or the World music Awards bought by sonny
at least when they lied about dion they were more subtle 175 million albums -another lie

Posted by papi on Saturday, 02.23.08 @ 23:40pm

Posted by papi on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:32pm


Dear Terry, here is a strong credential taken from IFPI.com in 2006, when they gave Madonna the 4th PLATINUM award in EUROPE for her album Confessions on a dancefloor:

"Enduringly popular 'Queen of Pop' Madonna has seen sales of her latest album Confessions On A Dancefloor go from strength to strength, as it also gains its fourth Platinum Europe Award since its release last November. The disco-inspired album is the eleventh studio offering from the American, who has sold over 200 million albums worldwide throughout her illustrious career. Madonna is currently on the European leg of her Confessions world tour, still wowing her army of fans with show-stopping performances after more than two decades in the business."

So if The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)says that Madonna has sold over 200 million albums worldwide who are we to contradict them?

Posted by papi on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:44pm


This is why I hate fanboys. It is not enough to merely like a band or performer or to believe those persons are talented individuals; they must be the absolute best, and the fanboy will use whatever reasoning is most convenient to "prove" it. The most widely-trumpeted statistic happens to be sales, as though large, teeming masses have ever in the course of the world been able to discern art from base commercialism.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 02.26.08 @ 23:55pm


Madonna is by far the most ART-istic singer in the history of popular culture. Her "Frozen" video/song is probably the most artistic and beautiful video/song ever made. Her "Bedtime Story" video/song is one of the only two videos that are permanently on dislay in the MUSEUM OF MODERN ART (MOMA) in NYC. Other ART MASTERPIECES BY MADONNA: TAKE A BOW, NOTHING REALLY MATTERS, RAIN, VOGUE, EXPRESS YOURSELF, YOU'LL SEE,I WANT YOU,THE POWER OF GOODBYE etc. Madonna is by the way the definition of inovation and reinvention in pop music. Want arguments...come on give me a break

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 00:41am


Madonna is one of the few artists that have maintained strong commercial success (on a worlwide level)and at the same time have sustained high standards regarding artistic integrity and credibility.
Madonna is also an artist that has actually evolved in ways that nobody could have predicted in the early 80's when she started.
Madonna is UNBELIEVABLE because she is the only human to have been at the same time: SEX ICON, INTELLECTUAL GENIUS,AMAZING PERFORMER, THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN IN THE WORLD, GIFTED MUSICIAN ETC

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 00:51am


Not SEX ICON but THE ULTIMATE SEX ICON
SHE HAS THE MOST PERFECT FACE EVER AND IS THE ULTIMATE BEAUTY STANDARD IF WE ALSO TAKE IN CONSIDERATION HER STRONG PERFECT TIGHS AND BEAUTIFULL AZZ

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 01:02am


SHE IS THE ONLY AUTHENTIC GODESS OF THE MODERN ERA

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 01:04am


Hey Papi - enough; please! We get the point, you pray to Madonna's pointy bra's. Watch the HoF show when it is on; get yourself all excited and do whatever it is that you do. Enjoy! But please, no more sharing your love with her here; please!!!

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 03:28am


Madonna is by far the most ART-istic singer in the history of popular culture. Her "Frozen" video/song is probably the most artistic and beautiful video/song ever made. Her "Bedtime Story" video/song is one of the only two music videos that are permanently on display in the MUSEUM OF MODERN ART (MOMA,in NYC.It is also one of the most expensive videos ever made, costing over 5 million dollars.
Other ART MASTERPIECES BY MADONNA: TAKE A BOW, NOTHING REALLY MATTERS, RAIN, VOGUE, EXPRESS YOURSELF, YOU'LL SEE,I WANT YOU,THE POWER OF GOODBYE etc. Madonna is by the way the definition of inovation and reinvention in pop music and really music in general. Want arguments??...Come on give me a break.

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 06:05am


Some of Madonna's most intelligent fans also consider her to be EVERYTHING, AN ARTIST WITH SO MANY FACES AND DIMENSIONS THAT SHE COULD MIGHT AS WELL BE THE FRIKIN' SHAKESPEARE OF POP CULTURE.

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 06:13am


Papi...seems like I asked you to not use my name again. I will file a complaint with the people who operate this website. UNDERSTAND ONE THING...I DON'T LIKE HER AND I DON'T THINK SHE'S WORTHY OF THIS PARTICULAR HONOR....PERIOD!!! I have my reasons, and the last thing I have to do is share them with you or "fanboy" John! Nothing you say or do is going to change that! At least I can talk objectively about an assortment of artists, which is a far cry from what you do.

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 06:36am


Terry - maybe if we just ignore Papi, he will just go away.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 06:42am


I was not trying to talk to you Terry or Daemon...I was just sharing my thoughts about the goddess of popular culture, so that you know and don't worry about the fact that people still know who is the the original source of greatness

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 07:13am


This I have to comment on (I can't believe I am going back on my own words).

I was just sharing my thoughts about the goddess of popular culture, so that you know and don't worry about the fact that people still know who is the the original source of greatness

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 07:13am

Papi - I am all for your love of Madonna. Be a fanboy - go crazy with it! But please don't confuse your reality and truth. I think you need to backtrack a few decades before Madonna to find the original source of genius in Pop music and culture. And if you cannot figure out what artists I am talking about, then you truly have been deprived.

Now I am done.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 07:29am


Daemon I'm sorry I really don't wanna upset you by writing this to you I really just wanna put some thought about madonna not chating about etc
I didn't say source of pop greatness althought that is important too...the beatles beach boys etc I said source of greatness, human greatness
believe i know a lot of artists that have come before and after her...although i'm only 25 and i can't tell that nobody had or will have such great levels of greatness like madonna

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 08:16am


It's her greatness as a human being that makes apparently simple songs and lyrics significant and brilliant
beatles abba elvis bob dylan donna summer the supremes saturday night fever grease soundtrack blondie staying alive pop rock history michel etc

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 08:22am


Madonna is by far the most ART-istic singer in the history of popular culture. Her "Frozen" video/song is probably the most artistic and beautiful video/song ever made. Her "Bedtime Story" video/song is one of the only two music videos that are permanently on display in the MUSEUM OF MODERN ART (MOMA,in NYC.It is also one of the most expensive videos ever made, costing over 5 million dollars.
Other ART MASTERPIECES BY MADONNA: TAKE A BOW, NOTHING REALLY MATTERS, RAIN, VOGUE, EXPRESS YOURSELF, YOU'LL SEE,I WANT YOU,THE POWER OF GOODBYE etc. Madonna is by the way the definition of inovation and reinvention in pop music and really music in general. Want arguments??...Come on give me a break.

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 08:24am


Some of Madonna's most intelligent fans also consider her to be EVERYTHING, AN ARTIST WITH SO MANY FACES AND DIMENSIONS THAT SHE COULD MIGHT AS WELL BE THE FRIKIN' SHAKESPEARE OF POP CULTURE.

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 08:26am


Madonna RULZ over the skies of ignorance

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 08:32am


If Madonna has a strong gay following it's their problem and in a lesser degree hers. Personally I'm not gay and also I'n not at all fond of their culture to say the least. If I admire Madonna then i admire her as my idol, inspiration,great musician and ultimate performer.
Being a young male of 25 I found Madonna to be at the opposite end of all the pop tarts today.Despite this I have to admit I also love Madonna's ARSE one of the most well ccrafted ever. If I jerked off looking at it a few times when young this is not gay but the opposite. Me gay? yeah right

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 10:26am


Some of Madonna's most intelligent fans also consider her to be EVERYTHING, AN ARTIST WITH SO MANY FACES AND DIMENSIONS THAT SHE COULD MIGHT AS WELL BE THE FRIKIN' SHAKESPEARE OF POP CULTURE.

Posted by papi redneck on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 10:36am


Here is a strong credential regarding M's worldwide sales taken from IFPI.com in 2006, when they gave Madonna the 4th PLATINUM award in EUROPE for her album Confessions on a dancefloor:

"Enduringly popular 'Queen of Pop' Madonna has seen sales of her latest album Confessions On A Dancefloor go from strength to strength, as it also gains its fourth Platinum Europe Award since its release last November. The disco-inspired album is the eleventh studio offering from the American, who has sold over 200 million albums worldwide throughout her illustrious career. Madonna is currently on the European leg of her Confessions world tour, still wowing her army of fans with show-stopping performances after more than two decades in the business."

So if The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)says that Madonna has sold over 200 million albums worldwide who are we to contradict them?

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 10:40am


By the way weren't like Shakespeare, Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo all gay? Still Shakespeare remains the biggest writer ever...And of course his books are not read by gays or written for them.If M made out with Naomi what is the problem? She had fun and also made some money. Ufff ufff. Also M has 3 children and she is married.
Madonna THE BEST EVER

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 10:48am


Here is a strong credential regarding M's worldwide sales taken from IFPI.com in 2006, when they gave Madonna the 4th PLATINUM award in EUROPE for her album Confessions on a dancefloor:

"Enduringly popular 'Queen of Pop' Madonna has seen sales of her latest album Confessions On A Dancefloor go from strength to strength, as it also gains its fourth Platinum Europe Award since its release last November. The disco-inspired album is the eleventh studio offering from the American, who has sold OVER 200 MILLION ALBUMS WORLDWIDE throughout her illustrious career. Madonna is currently on the European leg of her Confessions world tour, still wowing her army of fans with show-stopping performances after more than two decades in the business."

So if The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)says that Madonna has sold over 200 million albums worldwide who are we to contradict them?

Posted by papi on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 10:50am


Timberlake is actually the biggest selling solo performer of the last couple of years...and his last album is brill. He also got a GRAMMY this year, like Madonna for her groundbreaking and incredible CD/DVD The Confessions Tour. On that CD they filmed the most successful concert by a female artist ever, grossing 260 million dollars, if we were to include revenues for merchandise and madonna related articles like T-shirts etc. just heared 17 seconds of 4 minutes to save the world and I have to say M's collaboration with justin is by far the best song she ever made. And Madonna's album is called Hard Candy. Sweet like candy is Madonna/ Bella Donna

Posted by papi redneck on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 12:03pm


Gotta hand it to ya, Papi: you sure do manage to cram as much unreadable, boring and frankly-wrong tripe into all those comments. Did I mention that I can't be bothered reading any of them AT ALL, never mind the ones where you just re-hash old useless info on what Madonna eats for breakfast (it's children, btw)?

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 12:32pm


Liam...when I think of "musical geniuses", people like Allan Holdsworth, who I've been listening to (and getting confused by) a lot, come to mind...

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 13:08pm


^^Has anyone seen that Youtube video on that Britney Spears-fanboy sobbing over Britney's detractors? Funny stuff. It's called "Britney Spears Fan Cries".

Yeah, it's real.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 14:09pm


Papi - you really do not need to send these endless posts about Madonna. We all get that you think she is all that. But as you can tell, most of us are "rock and roll" fans in some form or another and not so much top 40 fanatics. Madonna is the Queen of top 40 dance hits. Bless her! Now can we be done with this, please?

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.27.08 @ 14:13pm


Madonna the biggest pop star ever

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:12am


madonna is now bigger than Michael Jackson

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:24am


Madonna has outsold Michael Jackson.
What started as a joke has turned out to be a worldwide phenomenon and the biggest female icon of the popular culture.
Madonna- the only intellectual genius in the popular music.

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:32am


Greatness will prevail...madonna will stand the test of time...her music, videos and performances are immortal

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:39am


M-A-D-O-N-N-A F-O-R-E-V-E-R

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:41am


WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY HILLARIOUS ABOUT MADONNA IS THAT MOST OF HER FANS AND ALL OF HER DETRACTORS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT SHE IS ABOUT,WHO SHE IS
BUT THAN AGAIN IF THEY COULD SEE, MADONNA WOULDN'T BE A GENIUS

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:49am


MADONNA IS THE ONLY ARTIST IN THE HISTORY OF POPULAR CULTURE THAT CAN NOT BE COPMARED TO ANYONE
SHE HAS NO PAIR
SHE REVOLUTIONISED EVERYTHING IN HER OWN NAME
MADONNA IS A SUPERIOR HUMAN BEING

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 10:58am


THERE IS SOMETHING ANTISOCIAL ABOUT MADONNA BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 11:14am


Web Adm. - Can you please ask Papi to ease up with these repeat comments of his.

We all got it now - she is the most important thing since slice bread.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 11:20am


MADONNA AND MICHAEL jACKSON ARE BY FAR THE MOST AMAZING PERFORMERS EVER.

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 11:30am


Papi really wants to get blocked.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 12:10pm


Papi really wants to get blocked.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 12:10pm



Well, it is not happening fast enough. And now he is brought Micheal Jackson into it. This makes me very sad.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 12:21pm


Papi, madonna doesn't actually read this site and you're not going to win a prize.
Get out of here.

Posted by blue on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 13:20pm


Madonna is the most complex artist in the history of popular culture. Madonna is the only artist in the history of popular culture that actually can't be described in words, her ART is beyond words.Madonna has shown to the whole world how it is done and how it will never be done again.

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 14:35pm


"Madonna is the most complex artist in the history of popular culture." - papi

Complete bullshit. To say so suggests that she is the most innovative, and boy-oh-boy, she isn't even close. She is derivative as the day is long.



Time for FRH to GET OUT THE BIG GUNS!!!! (aka block Papi The Fan Boy/Girl)

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 14:41pm


Liam Can you tell your understanding of inovation?
Madonna is BY FAR the most inovative performer, musician and video megastar ever

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 14:46pm


OK, clever pesron, this is where you reveal that you are joking.

Otherwise I'm going to have to conclude that you know literally nothing about music.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 14:50pm


Burning Up, Gambler- two of the best ROCK AND ROLL songs ever, written by Madonna
Frozen- the greatest POP ballad ever,written by Madonna
Express yourself- one of the greatest FUNK-INFLUENCED songs ever,co-written by Madonna
Secret,Take a Bow, You'll see- some of the greatest R'n'B-INFLUENCED songs ever
Vogue- one of the greatest DANCE songs ever
Music- one of the greatest POP songs ever
Don't tell me-one of the greatest COUNTRY-INFLUENCED songs ever
4 minutes to save the world- one of the greatest R'n'B/ HIP-HOP songs ever

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 15:21pm


Borderline- one of the greatest songs ever,no matter the genre, written by MADONNA

Posted by papi on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 15:25pm


Better Rn'R song? - try "Exile on Main St." in its entirety

Better Pop ballads? - try "Hey Jude".

Better Funk songs? - James Brown. Parliament/Funkadelic. Sly & the Family Stone.

Better RnB songs? - try Prince.

Better Dance songs? - Blue Monday. In fact, almost all of New Order's catalogue.

Better Pop songs? - wow, a tough one. Try that album "Abbey Road".

Better Country? - Johnny Cash or Elvis Presley.

Better RnB/Hip-hop (vague term)? - Public Enemy.




So basically, your shit argument turned out to be.....shit!

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 15:46pm


No Papi - Liam was showing how ridiculous your comments about how her music was the best ever. He only gave you one example for each category. There are plenty of other songs; too many to list here.

Posted by Dam,eon on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 16:24pm


I usually just come to this site to observe and to be informed, especially by Liam, Dameon, Blue, Terry, and others who really seem to know their stuff about rock music, you can tell a lot of you have "been there, done that". That being said, papi...I believe there are fan based websites where you can worship at the altar of Madonna (I believe her's is porcelain, by the way), and quit clogging up this site with your total and complete STUPIDITY!!

It's obvious to a blind man that you are narrow-minded, and have no musical knowledge that is useful. Your comments are sophmoric (you sound like you're about 10 years old), and your knowledge of popular music history is nearly non-existent!

I noticed that Blue made a comment that you should heed...GO AWAY!!!

Posted by St0rmy on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 18:05pm


Once again, this is why I hate fanboys. Music is about a lot more than the name on the cover.


That said, Zappa can smoke her in pretty much every category, plus some other unnamed categories.

Posted by William on Thursday, 02.28.08 @ 19:39pm


If quality dictated sales, marketing would not exist. I repeat, if quality dictated sales, marketing would not exist.

Compare the list of the top-grossing films of all time to the AFI's list of the top 100 films. There are very few items that make both lists (E.T., Forrest Gump, Star Wars). Compare the works of Thomas Kinkade to that of Van Gogh. Whose art is more highly prized today?

And to quote Scaruffi: "Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success."

You fail.

Posted by William on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 07:29am


And hell, if you want to get into a sales pissing match, going by the IFPI's numbers as reported in '06, Madonna had sold roughly 275 million albums since 1982. Mariah Carey had sold 230 millions albums since 1990. On average, she outsold Madonna by nearly 3 million albums per year.

Posted by William on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 07:40am


If you think my numbers are incorrect (and they are not), prove me wrong. Don't just come back with that "it cannot be so because I say" crap.

Also, the verbal abuse and generally just being an inflammatory douche is the reason your posts are being deleted. You deserve it.

Posted by William on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 08:20am


William - there is no conversing with this one. Don't even bother. And the Web. Adm. has taken to deleting his/her long diatribes.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 10:51am


Dameon...got a little nasty this morning, that's why you don't see him/her here anytmore. William kind of lit into them...great stuff!!!

Posted by Terry on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 10:58am


You would've probably been more than slightly irritated reading some of the stuff...I'll just leave it at thst...

Posted by Terry on Friday, 02.29.08 @ 11:00am


I love Madonna but...

Madonna is full of it!! Why is she acting like she doesn't know what the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is? She gave the induction speech for David Bowie some years ago for christ's sake!!

This is in reference to the Madonna article in the news section!

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 03.1.08 @ 08:00am


Madonna Flattered to be Among "Musical Dinosaurs"

...not a very flattering statement, but not surprising. I made a comment a while back that it seemed like she thinks this honor is beneath her...I rest my case.

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 03.1.08 @ 08:08am


DEAR MADONNA MY FAVORITE GENTILE YENTER IN HISTORY...P.S. GIVE GUY RITCHIE AND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY MY DEAREST AND WARMEST REGARDS(BECAUSE GUY IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS INDIVIDUAL( I WENT TO ENGLAND 7 TIMES AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM USE TO BEAT ON ME LIKE A NUN IN HEAT GETTING ANGRY AT A PRIEST--- NOT EVEN COUNTING YOUR FAMILY--YOUR SISTERS COULD SIT ON MY FACE AND DO FAMOUS GENTILE TORTURE TACTICS TO ME AND MENTALLY PERMEATE ME-- AND I'LL THINK I GREW UP IN DETROIT INSTEAD OF NEW JERSEY)...(YOUR ITALIAN THATS CLOSE ENOUGH-YOU COULD ACTUALLY (LIKE JOY BEHAR) PASS AS ONE OF MY PEEPS(JEWISH)...BUT THE REAL REASON I'M WRITING TO YOU MADONNA IS YOU'VE INSPIRED ME TO ACTUALLY LIKE ITALIAN GIRLS MORE AND MORE AND MORE(WHAT FIGURES-HOT) AND ALL GENTILES IN GENERAL NO MATTER HOW ANNOYING THEY ARE AND CAN BE...YOUR BOOK IN THE EARLY 1990'S CHANGED HISTORY COMPLETELY AND MENTALLY PERMEATE ME-BECAUSE IT SHOWED US ALL THAT A FAMOUS ARTIST AND MUSICIAN COULD MAKE IT WITH ANIMALS AND THEN SING A SONG ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE(I'M SINGING RIGHT NOW "IF I COULD TALK TO THE ANIMALS"--TALK TO THE ANIMALS"DO IT WITH THE ANIMALS"YUCK EXCUSE ME ALL-- I'M CURRENTLY GETTING VIOLENTLY SICK+ ILL AT THE MOMENT...ANYWAYS WHAT WAS I SAYING???OH YES CONGRADS MADONNA AND I REALLY LOVE YOU AND WAS GLAD YOU CAME ALONG(I EVEN WASTED TIME GOING TO 2 CONCERTS OF YOURS IN PHILLY AND WACHOVIA CENTER-YOU SANG "IMAGINE"BY JOHN LENNON--THEN A LITTLE WHILE LONGER YOU WERE"LIKE A VIRGIN AGAIN"OR"A FEMALE COWBOY"OR WHATEVER...ANYWAYS HAVE FUN AT YOUR CEREMONY AND SAVE ME A SEAT(I'M SURE THAT WILL HAPPEN--NOT???)ANYWAYS FROM BUYING BORDERLINE"TO YOUR CURRENT UPCOMING CD(ALBUM) RELEASE WITH TIMBERLAND AND JUSTIN(P.S. MADONNA DO THEY STILL MAKE CD'S ANYMORE??)I HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH THE MUSIC BUSINESS...ANYWAYS YOU'VE ENABLED AND GIVEN GENERATION AFTER GENERATION A MAJOR HARD ON AND 3 LEGS-EVEN WOMEN AND ANIMALS AND ALIENS(p.s.PLEASE DONt COME out or UP WITH A BOOK WITH YOU(featuring you) AND ALIENS IN PROVactive positions??? (P.S. YOU CAN BE A HARD ON ALSO...but we ALL LOVE YOU)EVEN WOMEN get off on you a lot...(AND BECAUSE OF YOU I'VE AND THREESOMES WITH 2 OR MORE WOMEN--ITS THE BEST!!!)ANYWAYS--DOCTOR RUTH-- I MEAN MADONNA I LOVE YOU AND ALWAYS WILL!!!(ARE YOU BUYING THIS ALL BIG M(MADONNA)??)AND I HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO EDUCATE ANOTHER GENERATION IN GETTING AROUSED 24/7...THANKS MADONNA(AKA"DOCTOR RUTH" AND PLEASE CONSIDER BEING A SEX THERAPIST AT SOME POINT IN ONE OF YOUR FUTURE CAREERS(YOUR A CHAMELEON)HAHA KIDDING......IN TRUTH ...ENJOY YOUR INDUCTION AT THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME--YOU'VE GIVEN A LOT (OF HEADACHES)..JOKING.... NO SERIOUSLY,YOU'VE GIVEN A LOT TO THE WORLD AND THE PUBLIC OF COURSE AND I'M REALLY GLAD YOU CAME ALONG..YOU MEAN A LOT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY NO JOKE(NOT ME)HAHA/J/K...OK ME ALSO...AND THANKS AGAIN...P.S. WITH GUY'S(RITCHIE) PERMISSION CAN I HAVE ONE SPECIAL NIGHT WITH YOU MADONNA(GUY'S BETTER LOOKING THAN NICOLE OR LIONEL RITCHIE AND I'M STRAIGHT...HAHA.. HEY PAUL SCHAFFER YOUR ANNOYING ME I HAVE HEADACHE..SORRY I WAS JUST LOOKING INTO THE ACTUAL HALL OF FAME LIVE CEREMONY STAGE SHOW AND FOR A SECOND FOUND IT ANNOYING--SORRY--- AND YOU RULE MADONNA...LOVE YA...DAN BARCAN...NEW JERSEY,USA...1...

Posted by DAN BARCAN on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 11:01am


DAN BARCAN...If Madonna had to be clued in by Justin Timberlake as to what the Hall Of Fame was all about (even though she inducted David Bowie!!!), I seriously doubt she'll be reading your comments...

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 11:28am


Thanks for the Big M(Madonna) update terry...- Cool beans for and from you for pointing that all out and your the best!P.S. feel free to check out for free myspace sight(2)Dan Barcan and D Baracn(both 2 seperate words under artist search in the music section,Like i was saying-what was i saying?oh yea--such inspiration by the big M(wink,wink)haha at least she gave me 3 legs at one point in time(i'm singing the song right now as we speak "one moment in time"by whitney houston haha yes im in a goofy mood and Terry for president in 2008!

Posted by DAN BARCAN on Monday, 03.3.08 @ 14:30pm


Madonna what were your favorite albums in high school?Did you like "NiGHT MOves by Bob Seger or"born to schlep and cav-etch"by the boss-bruce springsteen??Or were you actually cool and like the Beatles and Stones and the Who and The Kinks and punk rock??You graduated in detroit in 1976 i believe???and what a year it was in gentile popular music(anyone ever hear of the eagles???...Did you like dance/disco?Yikes??Anyways im here for you babe(Madonna)im basically your unknown male biotch--so spit on me and verbally abuse me,make me call the pope and the catholic church for verbal intervention and call me an azz a-sap( i would actually like that)...peace 2008!Dan Barcan...

Posted by DAN BARCAN on Monday, 03.3.08 @ 14:47pm


Firstly, those Carrey numbers are very off. 230 million albums- not even close. She's lucky to be at 200m including singles. And what's the point? Carye is unlikely to be considered for the HOF when she becomes eligible (at least based on her inconsequential work up to this point; while inconsequential, I do enjoy some of it).

I'm sure Madge was joshing in regards to not knowing what the HOF is about.

Posted by JR on Monday, 03.3.08 @ 20:29pm


Those figures are actually pretty close...on an average, Mariah Carey does outsell Madonna. I don't think she'll be considered either, but she does appeal to the masses, the hip-hop crowd, pop, etc...and she does sell records! She's very talented, but she needs to expand on that wonderful voice. Haven't heard a voice like that since Minnie Ripperton.

Posted by Terry on Monday, 03.3.08 @ 21:01pm


TERRY, YOU CONTINUE TO PROVE YOUR STUPIDITY. ANSWER ME THIS-- IF MADONNA IS SO INSIGNIFICANT TO YOU WHY ARE YOU CONSTANTLY WRITING ABOUT HER?????????? HOW DID YOU COME TO "KNOW" EVERYTHING ABOUT HER MUSIC AND LIFE AND HOW SHE BECAME FAMOUS? YOU MAKE NO SENSE DUDE!!! YOU TELL ME IF I WANT TO REVEL IN HER INDUCTION TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE???????? UH DUH, THIS IS A FORUM ABOUT MADONNA IDIOT. IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT HER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 00:57am


TERRY, SINCE YOU ARE SUCH A MADONNA EXPERT-- I MEAN YOU WERE THERE IN THE RECORDING STUDIOS TO SEE FIRSTHAND ALL THE PEOPLE RUNNING HER CAREER, YOU'RE AN EXPERT ON ALL HER SONGS ON ALL HER ALBUMS AND THEIR LYRICS WHY NOT MAKE SOME MONEY AND WRITE A "MADONNA FACT" BOOK.

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 01:03am


TERRY---
YOU USE ONE SET OF CRITERIA AGAINST MADONNA- YOU SAY WHO CARES ABOUT HER NUMBERS ( SALES AND HITS). THEN YOU USE THE SAME CRITERIA TO BOLSTER OTHER ARTISTS-- QUOTING "SOURCES" OF SALES FIGURES OF MICHAEL JACKSON AND MARIAH CAREY. ONCE AGAIN YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 01:08am


"TERRY---
YOU USE ONE SET OF CRITERIA AGAINST MADONNA- YOU SAY WHO CARES ABOUT HER NUMBERS ( SALES AND HITS). THEN YOU USE THE SAME CRITERIA TO BOLSTER OTHER ARTISTS-- QUOTING "SOURCES" OF SALES FIGURES OF MICHAEL JACKSON AND MARIAH CAREY. ONCE AGAIN YOU MAKE NO SENSE."-JOHN

Since you are so blissfully oblivious, I'll explain it slowly: The purpose of quoting Mariah Carey's sales in relation to Madonna's is to prove that 1) Madonna is not on top, as you claimed, and 2) to prove that sales don't matter by putting you in a position where, if you wish to continue believing they do, you would have to acknowledge Mariah Carey as Madonna's superior, since she sells more on average and will eventually outsell her absolutely if trends continue.

That I had to explain any of that says a lot about you.

"ANSWER ME THIS-- IF MADONNA IS SO INSIGNIFICANT TO YOU WHY ARE YOU CONSTANTLY WRITING ABOUT HER?????????? HOW DID YOU COME TO "KNOW" EVERYTHING ABOUT HER MUSIC AND LIFE AND HOW SHE BECAME FAMOUS?"-JOHN

So anyone Terry knows and writes about a lot is important? That's great news for Terry, I guess.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 04:25am


John...Let me simplify this for you...I don't like her, and I think it's a travesty she's being inducted, period!! Other people try throwing these ridiculous sales totals at me, and I form rebuttals by at least trying to be accurate!! If you like her, I suggest you just ignore my comments, because I will continue to have my comments when and where I see fit...

Don't care about your opinion, don't know why you care about mine if it's so "inaccurate"!!

Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 06:36am


IF YOU DIDN'T CARE ABOUT MY OPINION YOU WOULD'T BE ANSWERING ME . ONCE AGAIN YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF BY TELLING ME TO IGNORE YOU. ANYWAY, I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE ANY MORE TIME DEFENDING SOMEONE WHO DOESNT NEED DEFENDING. SHE'S THE BIGGEST FEMALE STAR IN HISTORY--RIGHT BEHIND THE BEATLES AND ELVIS. LIKE IT OR NOT SHE'S NOT GOING AWAY.

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 09:36am


Why would anyone listen to this artificial crap, never mind support its induction?

Oh yeah - laziness - I totally forgot.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 10:54am


"SHE'S THE BIGGEST FEMALE STAR IN HISTORY"-JOHN

That's pretty much the definition of wrong. She's more or less a non-entity in the world of film, an industry that has well over 100 years of history and no shortage of talented (and well-known) actresses whom Madonna is not fit to converse with.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 14:05pm


I hate to defend John, but on this one I think he's right (assuming he's talking about music, not movie stars -- not sure where you got that from, William). I don't think Aretha, Whitney, Mariah, Beyonce, Britney, or any other woman is more famous than Madonna in the world of music.

Posted by mel on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 14:58pm


Well let's see...We have a guy who has blown Madonna so out of proportion that he refers to one of her music videos as "the most profound MASTERPIECE EVER" and refers to her as "THE BIGGEST FEMALE STAR IN HISTORY." I think it's safe to say he's not talking purely the world of music (although even if he was, it would be ridiculous hyperbole).

I'd be surprised if he could make a single rational and well-reasoned argument.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 18:20pm


WILLIAM- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MUSIC- WHERE DID YOU GET FILMS FROM- THIS IS A R&R HALL FORUM ?????????? YOU SAY I CAN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT:
MADONNA IS THE BIGGEST FEMALE LIVE PERFORMER OF ALL TIME - CONSTANT SELL OUT PERFORMANCES WORLDWIDE- THE BIGGEST TOUR BY A FEMALE EVER-THE CONFESSIONS TOUR. EIGHT SELLOUTS AT MSG.
- MOST SINGLES SOLD BY A FEMALE IN THE US AND WORLDWIDE BY FAR.
- 2ND MOST ALBUMS SOLD IN US-TO STREISAND- AND MOST WORLDWIDE
- DON'T TRY TO TELL ME THAT MARIAH IS ANYWHERE CLOSE WORLDWIDE. MADONNA HAS SOLD MORE IN THE US AND IS WAY BIGGER IN THE UK-WHICH IS THE 2ND BIGGEST MARKET IN THE WORLD- AND SHE IS WAY BIGGER ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE AS EVIDENCED BY THE AMOUNT OF HITS SHE HAS HAD ON THE BILLBOARD WORLD CHARTS. AND LIVE MARIAH IS NO COMPARISON AS SHE HAS PROBLEMS SELLING OUT ONE SHOW.
- MADONNA HAS THE MOST TOP 10 HITS IN US HISTORY(TIED WITH ELVIS)MARIAH HAS 25- NOT EVEN CLOSE.
-MARIAH'S #1'S ARE INFLATED AS IN THE 90'S SONY WOULD DROP THE PRICE OF HER SINGLES TO .50 CENTS TO GET A ONE WEEK BOOST AS HER SINGLES WERE PEAKING. I KNOW I WORKED FOR BILLBOARD FOR 7 YEARS.
- DO YOU NEED ANY MORE "RATIONAL ARGUMENTS" AS TO WHY I SAY SHE IS THE BIGGEST FEMALE MUSIC STAR EVER? I MEAN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU THEN THIS DISCUSSION IS POINTLESS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE HER , FINE, THAT'S YOUR OPINION. BUT YOU CAN'T IGNORE HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

Posted by JOHN on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 21:33pm


I TYPE IN ALL CAPS THIS MAKES MY ARGUMENT BETTER AND 10000% MORE TRUE!

Madonna will be forgotten. It is only a matter of when. Others on this site will not be. That is what's important. Her music is disposable. Most of it is already dated.

You can't get over the idea that your pop star is anything less than a demigoddess. Her shit stinks, too. She's an artist, but not a particularly good one. She's the Thomas Kinkade of the music world.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 03.4.08 @ 22:28pm


YOU FINALLY RAN OUT OF ARGUMENTS. MAN I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WERE THERE WHEN SHE TOOK A SHIT. YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by JOHN on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 01:33am


DUDE, MADONNA HAS LASTED FOR 25 YEARS ALREADY, WHAT ARE YOU WISHING FOR. ASSHOLES LIKE YOU THOUGHT SHE WOULD BE GONE AFTER 1 YEAR. HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO BE PROVING YOU WRONG. YOU WILL BE HEARING MADONNA SONGS FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIVE AND BEYOND. WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER TO MY PREVIOUS POINTS DICKHEAD? MADONNA WILL BE FORGOTTEN? MAYBE IN A HUNDRED YEARS WHEN EVERYONE FROM THIS TIME WILL. YOU KNOW YOU ARE WRONG SO TAKE A HIKE. WHAT ELSE DOES YOUR CRYSYAL BALL TELL YOU BESIDES MARIAH WILL OUTSELL MADONNA SOMEDAY OR MADONNA WILL BE FORGOTTEN SOMEDAY???

Posted by JOHN on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 01:46am


"MADONNA WILL BE FORGOTTEN? MAYBE IN A HUNDRED YEARS WHEN EVERYONE FROM THIS TIME WILL."-JOHN

Just like no one remembers Beethoven, Haydn, or Liszt, right? I mean that was over 100 years ago, and 100 years is exactly the maximum amount of time anyone can remember anything.

Seriously, 25 years is nothing. It's a drop in the bucket. True longevity is something a pure pop construction like Madonna does not and will never possess.

Maybe someday you'll grow up and be able to have a nice conversation with adults, possibly utilizing proper grammar, punctuation, and most importantly, capitalization. Until then, beat it, kid.

Posted by William on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 04:30am


William...I'd like to give you some Madonna stats that count to me:

-Number of Madonna CD's purchased-0
-Number of Madonna concerts attended-0
-Amount of money spent on anything Madonna-0.00
-Number of Madonna performances watched on television-1, which prompted everything listed above.

I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that we're "assholes" and "dickheads" because we don't buy into what she's selling. I'll take my diverse musical interests any day over a bunch of "fanboy" nonsense.

I think someone mentioned something about fan websites where her praises are sung 24/7. When narrow-minded, maniacal fans come on this site and spout off about one artist, it makes me dislike them that much more...if that were possible in this case!

I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that we're "assholes" and "dickheads" simply because we don't buy into what she's selling.

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 07:21am


I don't know how the last part got repeated...but I can live with it!

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 07:24am


Hey any chance Guy Ritchie is related to Lionel or Nicole Ritchie???--Hes very dangerous and extremely black oriented and i am currently hiding in a corner somewhere south of bristol or is that Liverpool??So Guy keep being cool and dont be nobody's fool and be just a guy and go to school or make that shool or shule...Madonna and Kabbala a mysterious and serious combination no i'm not an aborigine or an aberration nor my acclimation is in the USA and United Kingdom---nations ...Just to some an irration a non human irrigation...Well let me overemphasize that i once was patronized by a few from the Emperor-ized United non scandalized school of gentile-i-sized school non shule of thought,,But we all rationalize a condescending answer by saying yes to a new form of a gentile dancer...Madonna or Big M as you may be called-- for let my words sing to you and respect to guy and Clark and the rest of the grizwalds(National Lampoons Vacation- Movies-songs--and high inflation and inflammations-but no more discriminations yet we Love the Big M---Why? It's because maybe we are all a larger configuration of a Kabbala Nation! --peace 2008!Madonna for president of the Kabbala class of 2012!Or possibly the class of a non class of a class of classless or very classy people in 2016!--were you born here or in Italy??If here maybe are President in 2020....because baby,,,I have a double unique vision for an exciting possible decision of you in all white in the white house ...peace to all for reading...Thanks again Dan B...

Posted by DAN BARCAN on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 18:44pm


Dan B....I gotta say that your comments are always...unique!!!

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 19:50pm


CHEERS TERRY:::FOR ROSES ARE RED AND VIOLETS ARE OF STEEL-- FOR YOU ARE MY FAVORITE GENTILE AND FOR YOU AND THE REST OF THE WORLD MY COMMENTS WILL REMAIN QUITE REAL...(AS IN REEL OR REELED IN OR REALLY A REALITY(HOUSING) OR A REALITY SHOW ...TERRY STAY COOL AND STAY REAL OR REEL AND DON'T BE CONFOUNDED AND CONFUSED AT MY VERBAL DEAL!PEACE 2008!DB...

Posted by DAN BARCAN on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 20:45pm


The End -

The truth is that without MTV, Madonna probably does not reign as the Queen of Pop. Maybe MTV should be inducted into the Hall.

I applaud all she has accomplished, but I still don't see her induction over so many others who are still on the outside looking in.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 07:07am


Couldn't agree more with all you just said, Dameon.

Posted by Blue on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 08:40am


Video Killed The Radio Star

Maybe the Buggles should be inducted just for this prophetic song. What do you think :-?

There is a new radio station in NYC 101.9

It is actually a RnR station that does not play just one or two genres of Rock. The playlist covers everything from the Beatles to the Foo Fighters with everything in between including Indie, Post-Punk, Punk, Metal, Classic and Prog. Pretty cool! Maybe FM radio will make a comeback.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 09:20am


That sounds like a very cool station, Dameon. Do you know if they simulcast over the internet?

Posted by Blue on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 13:44pm


Not yet, Blue: www.1019rxp.com

But who wants commercial radio over the internet? There are so many better options.

Posted by mel on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 13:50pm


HEY MADONNA(AND-FAMILY-STAFF-COOKS ETC--AND THE BUMP ON A LOG- SIR GUY VON RITCHIE-NOT LIONEL ON THE JEFERSONS-NOR LIONEL HAMPTON OR LIONEL RITCHIE OR EVEN NICOLE RITCHIE-OK RELAX-I'M KIDDING)HEY HI MADONNA I HAVE BEEN SICK ALL WEEK WITH A STOMACH VIRUS-BASICALLY BEEN GOING TO THE BATHROOM NON STOP AND I AM BASICALLY ONE STEP AWAY FROM HAVING A PISS BAG AND A CRAP BAG TO BOOT(IF I KEEP ON GOING THIS MUCH)!OK-LISTEN I WILL EXPLAIN ALL IN MY NEXT LETTER!STAY TUNED:::I WOULD ONLY DISCUSS THIS MATTER WITH YOU AND YOUR GROUP MADONNA!YOUR THE ONLY PEOPLE I FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO SHARE THAT WITH BECAUSE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED YOUR ALL (ESPECIALLY MADONNA) HONORARY DOCTORS AND A MAJOR EXPERT ON BEING A PAIN IN THE BUTT!Haha kidding but we all love you...so here comes my next letter!db...

Posted by DAN B. on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 14:37pm


WHOA Dan!!!! To much information for me!!!!

Posted by Terry on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 16:53pm


ok part 2 is coming

Posted by DAN B. on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 17:09pm


I'm pretty sure that DAN B. is making this up...

Posted by Liam on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 17:11pm


Thanks Terry and now back to you Iggy and take over!

Posted by DAN B. on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 17:11pm


Liam i am actually being honest(Hey how's Noel been lately?)--yes i have been sick all week and are you related to that weirdo in the pop band oasis???Liam i may be called Dan B but now i'm offically calling you Aunt B...thanks all for reading and honestly yes to answer all your questions about what ive been doing with myself the last few years quite simply put ive been"post war cloaking",just thinking ahead...peace all,DB...

Posted by DAN B. on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 17:18pm


"(Hey how's Noel been lately?)--yes i have been sick all week and are you related to that weirdo in the pop band oasis???"

Hahahahahahahahaha!

He's been fine, you know, the usual - writing mediocre Beatles-esque songs for the new album.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 17:27pm


New York City replaces "smooth jazz" with what appears to be a pretty decent rock format...Denver replaces theirs with "sports talk radio".Guess I'll listen to New York City!

Posted by Terry on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 18:49pm


Yeah - aren't we just a cutting edge city ;-)

Of course, going from Jazz to a mix of rock may upset William :-)

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 03.7.08 @ 19:38pm


Funny how this lady has been heavily criticized and despised over the years in her home country.

So much ignorance and pre-conceived notions here.

While being inducted , Hope Madonna rises her midfinger in front of all these people and points out how her American detractors have been so wrong over the years ...and mega swearing Wouldn't it be the right ROCK'n roll attitude pure American rock'nrollers are waiiiiting

'cause what's most pissing the Madonna detractors is the number of time she has proven them wrong i.e. : lasting three decades developpping a better voice ,
being the best female stage performer ever, still releasing successful albums, singles and videos , able to create varied music genre and be succesful with it and still looking fit , beautiful, well-balanced mother. Those who have nothing are now more jalous of her having everything... Go on Turning your head, it must hurt.

Posted by colias on Sunday, 03.9.08 @ 00:41am


"being the best female stage performer ever"-colias

This is at best a sign of extreme willful ignorance and at worst a slap in the face to the many decades of influential and powerful female performers that predated your precious pop queen. Mahalia Jackson could not only light a room on fire with her singing (and be called on to perform encores in the double digits), but also helped make history (telling Martin Luther King, Jr. to "tell them about the dream" on the date of his famous speech). And she's hardly the only towering figure in the history of female performers of whom Madonna only sits in the shadows.

Learn your history, boy.

Posted by William on Sunday, 03.9.08 @ 01:19am


"So much ignorance and pre-conceived notions here."-colias

...undoubtedly on your part!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.9.08 @ 07:44am


sorry william, but if you wen out asking 10,000 people who's Mahalia Jackson?, only a few would answear, on the other hand, go ask these 10,000 people who's Madonna? The 10,000 will know who she is. Now I have to wonder who's living in the shadows of whom?

Posted by roger on Monday, 03.10.08 @ 17:37pm


Sorry roger, but if you don't know who Mahalia Jackson is, then you're very musically, socially, and historically starved. Go ask people in about 100 years, I'm sure the result would be different. Mahalia Jackson will never be in the likes of Madonna's shadow...it's a preposterous comparison!!

Posted by Terry on Monday, 03.10.08 @ 19:20pm


Terry and William,
U guys are still crying? Damn get over it!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Eileen on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 02:14am


William,
you're telling people to "learn their history" ??????????? you are the uninformed preposterous one. No female, let me repeat no female has performed to as many sellout crowds for as long as Madonna. Mahalia Jackson, a great singer in her own right, but come on. Next to nobody knows who she is anymore, and she never played to anywhere near the audiences Madonna has. So I sugggest you go back and learn some history.
p.s. I'm not writing in capitals so you can't use that as an excuse to attack my post when you have no real comeback.

Posted by John on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 02:21am


William,
How stupid can you be? You have no answer to my posts so you try to compare Madonna to Beethoven or Madonna's film career????? O.k., keep trying to change the subject. This is about rock music, NONE of these people are classic musicians that will be remembered like Beethoven, its a different world. You are really grasping at straws to prove Madonna is not worthy. Why not just compare her to Jesus Christ or Mother Teresa and say she doesn't measure up. So Billy Drunkin Joel, or Michael Molester Jackson, or John I don't care if I sell records Mellenhead will be remembered in 100 years????? Come on you make no sense.

Posted by John on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 02:35am


John...I've noticed that you can't seem to talk about anyone else on this site, so how stupid can you be? You keep defending her to people who obviously don't like her, and never will! Your arguments are old, you haven't "converted" anyone. I just happen to agree with a whole lot of other people. To me she isn't relevant. Go to a fan website and talk to people who do. On this website, try to talk about something else.

When William talks about Mahalia Jackson and history, I think he meant IMPORTANT history...go read up on her...or are you afraid Wiki will compare her unfavorably to Madonna?

Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 06:39am


This is about rock music - John

If this was about Rock Music, then Madonna would not be part of the discussion. She is a product of MTV more than anything else. Bless her for that; she has had good fortune and a solid understanding of the music business and what drives it.

That being said, Madonna is now in. Congrats! Let the "fanboys" scream as loud as they want. Let's see what new misery the Hall will inflict upon us next year:

Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, ELP, The Stooges and Cheap Trick.

I think, based on this past induction ceremony, they are ready to open the doors for Iggy and crew. I highly doubt it for the rest of them.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 08:42am


This is about rock music - John

If this was about Rock Music, then Madonna would not be part of the discussion. She is a product of MTV more than anything else. Bless her for that; she has had good fortune and a solid understanding of the music business and what drives it.

That being said, Madonna is now in. Congrats! Let the "fanboys" scream as loud as they want. Let's see what new misery the Hall will inflict upon us next year:

Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, ELP, The Stooges and Cheap Trick.

I think, based on this past induction ceremony, they are ready to open the doors for Iggy and crew. I highly doubt it for the rest of them.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 08:42am


"and she never played to anywhere near the audiences Madonna has. So I sugggest you go back and learn some history."

Doesn't matter how big each one's crowds were. Don't assume that the crowd members could tell what a good performer was (especially not Madonna fans).

"This is about rock music, NONE of these people are classic musicians that will be remembered like Beethoven, its a different world."

Your ignoring his point. Don't be stupid.

Actually, my money is that certain 'modern
musicians' will be remembered. Do you think people in the late 1700s/early 1800s were even remotely aware of how long-lived Beethoven's compositions would be? No, in fact, probably the complete opposite judging by how many critics viewed him.

Madonna will be forgotten, and in her place will come all the Fall Out Boys, Korns, Nickelbacks and whatever other crap out there. Artists who made and make their mark primarily on musicians, artists like The Velvet Undergrounf and Captain Beefheart, will be remembered.

"So Billy Drunkin Joel, or Michael Molester Jackson, or John I don't care if I sell records Mellenhead"

Hahahaha! How about Madonna 'let's abduct an african baby' Ritchie?! Hahahahaha!

Or Madonna 'I'll make some lameass statment in one of my craptastic music videos, like making out with Jesus, because I know that if I don't people will forget about me' Ritchie?

Or even Madonna 'sssh, I don't think they've realised I'm not actually an artist, but in fact an incompetent whore' Ritchie?! Hahahahaha!

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 03.11.08 @ 11:29am


This induction pretty much kills any remaining credibility the RRHOF was holding on to. They've consistently denied induction for various quality 80s rock acts because they were supposedly too corporatey and relied too much on studio production. Then they go and pull this shit. Madonna is nothing more than a pathetic talentless whore put on by a label. Yeah, she's influential alright. Think of all the great disgruintled ex-mouskateers she blazed a trail for. What would we have done without the Madonna copycats like Britney who are just as fake as she is? Whatever three-ring circus Jann Wnner is running doesn't deserve to be called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Posted by Eddie on Thursday, 03.13.08 @ 01:10am


I think that everyone needs some perspective here:

1) Yes - Madonna is a rock musician, her music is based on the rhythm and blues (pre-rock) structure.

2) She is one of the most culturally relevent artists, her voice and style are unique to rock music.

3) According to wikipedia, the RIAA has certified her as the best selling female ROCK artist of the century.

4) Yes - she is only tied with Elvis for the most Top 10 Hits, which she is likely to surpass.

I think that people look more at Madonna's pop image than at her work. I am not saying that she the greatest rock artist of all time, just that people should close their eyes and simply listen to the music. To an open mind it is usually very well crafted, artistic, and human (unlike most of the current pop artists out there).

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.15.08 @ 23:50pm


" I am not saying that she the greatest rock artist of all time..."

Sorry, meant to say "...that she IS the greatest...", forgot the verb.

But in addition, I'd like to address some other issues brought up:

1) Her voice, definitely not of Deva caliber, but a great voice does not make a rock star (Bob Dylan for starters).

2) Someone above tried to belittle her commercial success, relating her success to a study of movies!? They compared the best selling movies to the AFI list and noted a huge difference between the public and the critics. Well, I have news for that them: Madonna has more than one critically lauded album. Like A Prayer is on two greatest albums lists. Ray of Light has won three Grammys. True Blue is considered an essential recording by Anazon.com. Added to this, Like A Prayer, Ray of Light, the Immaculate Collection, and Music are on a Rolling Stone's list of the 500 greatest albums of Rock and Roll. Incidently, you wont see four albums by Mariah, Whitney, or Janet on there. Ah! Well, what do know, the critics do tend to agree with the public (atleast as far as the record industry is concerned)!

3) I just wanted to mention that Madonna has recieved many awards and honors. Two come to mind, from VH1 research: she is the #8 greatest women of rock and roll, and the #86 greatest artist of rock and roll. Once again Mariah...not so much.

Once again, if you don't like Madonna: just close your eyes and listen. There has got to be atleast one song of hers that you like.

Posted by Jake on Sunday, 03.16.08 @ 01:11am


") Yes - Madonna is a rock musician, her music is based on the rhythm and blues (pre-rock) structure."-Jake

A lot of country is based on twelve-bar pentatonic blues, too. With that in mind, Madonna's music is not twelve-bar blues that I can recall. Do you even know what that is? She's about as much country as she is rock.

Do you really think her music would've stood up on its own without all the MTV hoopla? When I first heard her on the radio I thought "UGH...not another one..." Let's put it in layman's terms...no MTV, no Madonna...period. She constantly changes because the "music" isn't important to her...her image is! Do you think she's doing an album with Timbaland to be "innovative"? She's doing it because hip/hop is where the money and VISUAL exposure is!!

After being force-fed Madonna for 20+ years I, like a lot of other people have her figured out. She's pretty predictable!! If she has you buying what she's selling...your problem!!



Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.16.08 @ 03:21am


Terry,

Let me clarify. Yes, the statement I made about Madonna and rhythm and blues is not completely accurate. What I meant was that many people have a far too narrow view of rock and roll. In actuality, rock and roll is a mixture of different American roots music. She certainly has incorporated a unique blend of these into her work. Rock and Roll extends far beyond your preconcieved notion. If you were really serious about criticising her you would stop the MTV rhetoric and discuss what particluar elements of her music you don't feel appropriate to be considered rock. The fact that my first statement was the only one you responded to suggests that you have nothing to dispute about the other six (granted two are opinions). Six out of seven is not bad.

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.17.08 @ 00:43am


I have followed Rock & Roll from the beginning, played it and listened, and there is nothing I've ever heard from her that suggests it...it has all been bubble gum/dance music. What Madonna does is purely, as another person stated on here, the bastard stepchild of rock...period. There...I associated Madonna to rock, happy?? Her noteriety has come from what she's done in videos and in the media...her music doesn't always suggest her actions.

Jake, you're not going to convice me otherwise. The Hall picked her over far more desrving artists...that's just the way it is! I only respond to people who try to say otherwise. If you can find ANYONE else to talk about, you'll find me to be far more cooperative. Talk like this just makes my case to people...go brush up on rock history...and LISTEN to it.

Posted by Terry on Monday, 03.17.08 @ 06:30am


If Rock and roll encompasses all music...sure Madonna should be in. If Rock and Roll is what I've grown up knowing as Rock and Roll she should have to buy a ticket to get in.

Posted by Steve Potocin on Monday, 03.17.08 @ 08:51am


"Like A Prayer is on two greatest albums lists. Ray of Light has won three Grammys."

Wow. Two greatest albums lists.

"True Blue is considered an essential recording by Anazon.com."

Amazon is biased, for obvious reasons - they have to sell.

"Added to this, Like A Prayer, Ray of Light, the Immaculate Collection, and Music are on a Rolling Stone's list of the 500 greatest albums of Rock and Roll."

Yeah, and that's soming from he same people who included Kurt Cobain on their Greatest Guitarists list.

"Incidently, you wont see four albums by Mariah, Whitney, or Janet on there."

No one ever said they would. You fail.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 03.17.08 @ 12:33pm


Liam,

Your critique of my postings is weak:

People have been equating Madonna to Mariah and Janet in previous postings (o.k. maybe not Whitney).

The 500 greatest album list must have been compiled by somebody else. There are albums representing many infamous rock artist; Elvis, Hendrix, the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, the Doors, U2, Zeppelin, etc.

According to your logic Amazon.com would rank every album as essential (which they certainly do not).

And Yes, Like A Prayer is on VH1's greatest albums of rock and roll. You will not find an album by a strictly bubble gum artist on that list.

I find it amusing that no one has (probably because they can't) challenge her standings with VH1: 8th greatest woman of rnr, and 86th greatest artist of rnr. The votes for those lists were cast by rock historians and other recording artists.

Nor are you willing to admit that the RIAA has proclaimed her the most successful female ROCK artist of the century. I didn't put the word "rock" in caps to test my keyboard.

And for those of you who still think of her popularity as an MTV invention, just think of the other 80's artist who we always saw on MTV. Cyndi Lauper, the Bugles, Tiffany, Debbie Gibson, Belinda Carlyle, and the Bangles were all as popular as Madonna at one time, on MTV. None of them have even come close to matching her sales, critical success, or longevity.

I failed...I think not.


Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 03.19.08 @ 14:35pm


Being popular for a long time does not make one a rock and roll artist. IMO neither does being on any VH1 list. Madonna is a hugely successful recording artist, no doubt. I can't define rock and roll....but I know it when I hear it...and it ain't Madonna. This of course is just my opinion.

Posted by Steve Potocin on Wednesday, 03.19.08 @ 15:01pm


Sorry for any confusion. The last comment by "Steve" was mine, I use different names on different boards because my real name seems to be too common on most boards. Regardless of what name I use I am still just a voice, a voice which believes Madonna should be in the rnr hall of fame. Certainly, there have been other more worthy artists, but she does belong in the hall at some point in time. So, yes maybe she should have been inducted later, that I will conceed.

Posted by Jake on Wednesday, 03.19.08 @ 15:51pm


Yes Madonna is popular and successful, but is she Rock and Roll? What songs have she done that are considered Rock ? Like a Virgin ? Material Girl ? Vogue? Will someone tell me one song ?

Please.

Posted by Wally on Monday, 03.24.08 @ 12:37pm


Loads of inductees weren't/aren't rock n' roll.

You either take the name completely literally (which means you don't induct anyone from 1970 or later) or you just ignore it for the tourist fly-trap it really is.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 03.24.08 @ 12:51pm


Wally,

Come on! I thought the "rock" thing was settled. Yes, she is rock. Check out wikipedia's article, the RIAA considers her a rock artist (that article is protected from outside editing). Aside from that, most people consider Like A Prayer to be a rock album (I believe that Prince actually did the main guitar RIFF in the title track). And, please read my other postings. She is on many greatest rnr lists, some of which are determined by rock historians and recording artists. Oh yeah, by the way, Like A Prayer is on VH1's 100 greatest albums of rnr.

Your right, just because you are successful does not make an outstanding rock musician (e.g. Britney Spears). But, Madonna has several critically successful albums. No one seems to be able to dispute most of the facts that I have posted earlier. Liam has just responded to yours. If you look further up the board, you will see my other comments, which are mostly facts supporting Madonna's induction. Liam tried to challenge them but it seems that he has no retort. This board is about discussion, you should probably read atleast some of other postings before you post.

Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 03.25.08 @ 18:00pm


Ok people...I think that I have said just about everything that needs to be said on this subject. So, I will not be posting anymore. To my satisfaction, no one has been able to dispute the great majority of facts that I have posted. If you hate Madonna...thats fine, but this is not about your personal feelings. A while ago I responded to a posting, asking someone to tell how she, musically, is not rnr. I have recieved no response. No one denies her sales, critical success, longevity, or her apparent status as a rock musician. No one has been able to debunk anything (maybe one small technicality, but thats about all).

Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 03.25.08 @ 18:26pm


What, you expected a response in half an hour? You'd have to wait about a week here before you can call a topic/conversation dead.

"But, Madonna has several critically successful albums."

Where? As far as I know, all she's ever done was abduct "orphans" who still have parents.

Also, Madonna isn't the sort of artist who I think will have longevity (eg 150+ years). 30 years is NOTHING.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 10:41am


Ray of Light and Like a Prayer are both in the top 10 critically acclaimed albums of their respective years ('89 and '98).

Posted by rdl on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 11:18am


...according to whom? Because I've listened to both, and I can tell you ten better albums from the same years without having to look them up.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 11:26am


Village Voice's Pazz & Jopp -- she was 18 in 1989, and 21 in 1998. if you include global critics, she gets into the top 10.

Posted by rdl on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 11:44am


I'll do so anyway...

1989:
Beastie Boys, Paul's Boutique
The Cure, Disintegration
Depeche Mode, 101
De La Soul, 3 Feet High and Rising
New Order, Technique
Nirvana, Bleach
Pixies, Doolittle
Soundgarden, Louder Than Love
The Stone Roses, s/t
XTC, Oranges & Lemons

1998:
Belle & Sebastien, The Boy With the Arab Strap
Beastie Boys, Hello Nasty
Eels, Electro-Shock Blues
Fatboy Slim, You've Come a Long Way, Baby
Manic Street Preachers, This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours
Massive Attack, Mezzanine
Neutral Milk Hotel, In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
Pearl Jam, Yield
Smashing Pumpkins, Adore
Sonic Youth, A Thousand Leaves

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 11:48am


Liam....
You picked albums that were 10X better than those Madonna albums...how many albums would you have to post to list all the albums from those years that were just plain better than Madonna's non rock disc's?

Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 12:32pm


Too many.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 03.26.08 @ 12:37pm


Madonna has not right to be in the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame!!! Now I'm not say what she did was not great or that she don't deserve credit where credit is due, but its not in the Rock Hall. She is not rock and roll. she she pop. And yes its the greatest honnor for a musican to be entered into the rock hall, but you just have to choose the right music to get in. Like perfessional football players dont expect to get inducted in to the Professional Baseball hall of fame or Professional hockey hall of fame. so alls im saying is she can be honnored in other ways, but we should not put her in just because were "running out of good contestents" what about RUSH, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Iron Madian, and many others! We don't need or beloved Rock Hall filtrated with things that do not belong.
~Sean

Posted by Sean Wright on Wednesday, 04.16.08 @ 09:06am


Notice how many songs Madonna makes reference to in her song "You'll See"?

All By Myself by Eric Carmen
Staying Alive by The Bee-Gees
I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor
On My Own by Patti LaBelle and Michael McDonald

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 04.16.08 @ 15:29pm


shouldn't have been inducted. has nothing to do with whether she's rightly rock or pop, just simply that she is extremely overrated. people always say "oh, she's the first to do _____". so many musicians, male and female are credited, sometimes unjustly, for being the innovator of whatever. wake up, folks. there was in fact music before madonna. how do you think the industry survived through the 20s, 30s, 40s, and so on until 1982 when madonna showed up? do you really think that out of the thousands of artists that came before her, she is THE best, THE most talented, THE most everything? if so, you need to take a lesson in music history. big time.

you can talk about her record sales numbers... and boy, do her fans love to talk about that... until you're blue in the face, but hey, britey spears sold a bunch of records a few years ago. she was once called the biggest popstar in the world. look at her now! none of her former "success" redeems her now. i only bring her up because people used to throw her name in when they'd talk about how, um, grateful we should be that madonna has paved the way for the prepubescent poptarts who seem to rule the airwaves today.

i used to enjoy her (madonna's) music a lot when she was fresh and relevant. and less of a bitch. i saw an interview with her in the early 90s where she said something like "why can't people just be inspired by all that i've accomplished?"... that sunk it for me right there. how self-serving can one person be? why can't people just adore me, because i am obviously so smart and so great? ugh. spare me.

Posted by Gwen on Tuesday, 05.6.08 @ 21:25pm


I just wanted to say that Madonna is the best forever!

Posted by Rodman on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 08:50am


Madonna is bigger than all of the RRHOF
GENIUS Madonna

Posted by rodman on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 15:15pm


I just wanted to say that Madonna is the best forever!
Madonna is bigger than all of the RRHOF
GENIUS Madonna



Posted by hahaha on Saturday, 06.28.08 @ 15:30pm


I just wanted to say that Madonna is the best forever!
Madonna is bigger than all of the RRHOF
GENIUS Madonna

Posted by hoiasoia on Saturday, 06.28.08 @ 22:25pm


I just wanted to say that Madonna is the best forever!
Madonna is bigger than all of the RRHOF
GENIUS Madonna

Posted by kjhgkl on Saturday, 06.28.08 @ 22:51pm


Although being considered the goddess of pop Madonna's power matches or is bigger than the power of rock!
She is truly amazing!
Long live The Queen and RRHOF for inducting her in her first year of eligibility!

Posted by hoiasoia on Sunday, 06.29.08 @ 20:09pm


Goddess - aren't we getting a bit carried away now?

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 06.30.08 @ 14:48pm


Madonna is bigger than rock!

Posted by hoiasoia on Monday, 06.30.08 @ 22:59pm


Not in this lifetime, nor any others. Her place in Pop music is right there with Michael Jackson. Now can you say - thank you MTV!

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 04:04am


"Now can you say - thank you MTV!"

And thanks to Ed Sullivan for bringing us Elvis Presley.

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 06:46am


"And thanks to Ed Sullivan for bringing us Elvis Presley." The_Claw

That is probably THE most ridiculous comparison I've seen on this site!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 07:08am


Claw - I think it is two completely different sets of circumstances. Even with as many appearances as Elvis (?)and the Beatles (4)may of had on Ed's variety show over the years, you cannot compare that with seeing Madonna on MTV 20 times in a single day; 7 days a week, 52 weeks in a year.

I think we should ask the question; would the Beatles or Elvis have broken through without the Sullivan appearances? The answer - hell yes! Radio was still the mainforce of music. Since I was not around during the Elvis assualt, I can only comment on the Beatles and they were starting to rule these shores before the Sullivan show. Would Madonna have broken through without MTV? - Probably although I wouldn't bet on it. But she would have gone nowhere near the heights that she reached! I was not a fan of dance pop, but even I knew her videos; although I could not remember the songs. She was visual.

Let's not misunderstand what I am saying, Madonna has earned her right into the Hall. She certainly has influenced her brand of pop-dance music through the decades and she dominated in the age when "Video Killed the Radio Star". But let's not put her music up their with the greats of the last 50 plus years. Madonna and her management company knew exactly what they were doing. And I think many Rock bands learned from that. There is no way Bon Jovi rules the second half of the decade with out Jon's pretty little face appearing on MTV every hour on the hour. They learned from Madge very well. Many rock bands did.

Even the King of Pop, MJ reaped the whirlwinds of MTV, although up to Thriller, he was doing some special dance pop tracks (Off The Wall). As much as I am a non-fan of MJ, even I cannot deny the greatness of Bille-Jean. That track would have made it whether MTV existed or not. But after Thriller, he seemed to care less about the music and more about the visual. Let's face it, Bad and most recordings that followed were pretty damn bad!

Madonna is bigger than rock! (hoiasola) - the answer - NO!

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 07:30am


Off course I was exaggerating, but you cannot deny the impact of Elvis' performance on the Ed Sullivan Show. Maybe he would have been broken through without the show, we could only speculate about it. But it's a fact that he did break through, and became an overnight sensation when he started shaking his hips on national tv. And all thanks to great management (Colonel Parker for the Non-Performer Category!) and a little controversy. The relationship between rock & roll and television is a tight one.

Off course, MTV's influence on pop music is bigger than Ed Sullivan, Dick Clark's Bandstand or Soul Train combined. And MTV is an important factor in Madonna's success. But there's also the great production and the controversial performances. And she even made a couple of critical acclaimed albums. No alltime Top 100 material, but at least one or two Top 500 records.

BTW I completely agree on MJ. Billie Jean is fantastic, but after that his music was Dangerously Bad.

Is she bigger than rock? Now that's a ridiculous comparison.

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 08:00am


Claw - Promotion has always been important for contempory music. The difference between the variety and music shows of the 60's and 70's and MTV is that a performer was rarely granted airtime unless they already had started capturing the imagination of the listening public. You know, record on the charts with a bullet. Whereas, MTV, especially in the early days would air videos of artists that were never heard of, if only because there were not enough actual videos to cover a 24 hour period. MTV is the single most important factor in Madonna's career. And this is where I have an issue with her place in musical history. Greatest video artist - yes, but musically, I wouldn't place her in the top 1,000. But this is just one man's opinion.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 08:24am


All the musicians benefited from the MTV wide exposure, since its beginning
It's stupid to say that only Madonna did so, she is just one of so many others
The Immaculate Collection, although not being a studio album, is the best pop album ever, the best greatest hits album ever and one of the best albums ever
Songs like Live To Tell, Justify My love, Like a Prayer, Rescue Me, Bad Girl, Secret, Take a Bow, You'll See, Frozen etc. are some of the best songs ever written and performered, they've got nothing to do with their videos

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 10:50am


Queen of Pop has sold close to 200 million albums and close to 100 million singles, worldwide, that's close to 300 million audio units sold in the entire world.
She is the only American music act (together with Michael Jackson)to have sold over 100.000.000 albums outside US. She also sold tens of millions of singles outside US, more than MJ, making her THE BIGGEST SELLING MUSICIAN THAT AMERICA HAS GIVEN TO THE WORLD, OUTSIDE ITS BORDERS.
Madonna is also Europe's biggest selling solo musician, shipping close to 80 million albums there.
Madonna is also the biggest selling musician in UK (only The Beatles are bigger than her there, seling over 20 million albums and close to 17 million singles there

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 11:10am


Hoiasoia - so what is your point exactly? No one is questioning the fact that Madonna has sold a gazillion records and has fans worldwide. She has my applause for that. All I am saying is that musically, IMO, she is not all that.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 11:33am


Daemon wrote: All I am saying is that musically, IMO, she is not all that.
I'm doubting that very much
Even great bands like Led Zeppelin, Eagles, Metallica, Pink Floyd etc. have up to 10, max. 20 big songs, important and significant songs, in their genre of course
Madonna has so many songs that are masterpieces in her genre of course, pop music. She has like 37 top 10s in US and 60 or 61 in UK
Now that's something and tells a lot about her music abilities
She has 7 Grammies and like 25 or 26 nominations
She would have had even more Grammies if not for all the scandals in her life, most of them not produced by her and if not for her provocative nature
She is a genius if you look at her musical body of work, her diversity is unheard of
she is a double genius: intellectual genius and genius of sensiblitity
She is unique in the sense that:
nobody will EVER be like her because it is humanly impossible

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 12:50pm


Oh yeah, I remember this is that same MADonna fanboy from a few months back. What a prick.

Posted by Lol on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 12:53pm


If you remember it is very good
That means that I moved something inside of you even if you will never recognize it as it will be shown by your next comment
Madonna is an amzing genius of our times!!!

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 12:58pm


Madonna has nothing on Tom Jones or the Backstreet Boys. THEY are the true legends!

Posted by Arrowhead on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 12:58pm


Madonna is bigger than a legend, she is an entity
Mark my words
She will be praised in time as the biggest and more relevant woman icon of all times!

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 13:01pm


How could I be a fan buoy when I'm smarter than you?

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 13:14pm


Hoiasoia - Yes, many important bands have scored many hits. But equally as many important bands have never had a "hit record" or no more than a handful. Just for a quick example, The Stooges, NY Dolls, Velvet Underground and the Ramones. Two of these bands are in the Hall and two are not (injustice). And remember, since the mid-60's, most great bands are known by the albums and not the singles. 2 excellent songs on an album with 12 songs on it does not make it special. It is called "filler".

Question for you; since Mariah Carey has more hit's than Madonna, does that make her more important that Madge in the world of Pop? Using your standards, it does, therefore Madonna is not even number one in terms of Pop music.

The Grammy Awards mean little to me. This is the same body that gave best Hard Rock/Metal album to Jethro Tull over Metallica. Zero creditability as far as I am personally concerned.

Where is the intellectual genius? And I am not sure what genius of sensibility even means. Again, I am not dismissing Madonna as an important artist in Pop culture over the last 25 years. She will be remembered long after I am worm food. But she is neither an original or musically special. She is certainly not cutting edge in regards to the actual music. Her attitudes and style - yes. She was a dominant performer in the Dance-Pop genre. And she deserves all acolades for that. The planets were aligned just right for her. She is not now or ever will be in the same tier as the Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks, Dylan, Beach Boys, Elvis, Yardbirds, etc., etc. Nor is she on the secondary tier with bands that you mentioned, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, etc.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 13:22pm


She is unique in the sense that:
nobody will EVER be like her because it is humanly impossible. What do I mean by that?!
Mathematically (using probabilities ecuations)I come to the conclusiona that there are always close to 0 chances for someone to achieve what she has achieved in the field of popular culture and music, in the field of human culture
She is, as mathematically proven by me,the most exceptional human being inducted inthe US RRHOF!

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 13:24pm


Dameon
I was not talking about important songs as in how high they charted or how much they sold. Important songs that is ESSENCIAL songs, that transcend the test of time, and this is where the big legendary rock bands always win.
Even so Madonna has more NR 1s than the female singer mentioned by you BUT worldwide, has far more nr 1s in all the countries in the world save for US, moreover as per United World Charts Madonna has 13 nr 1 s while Carey has only 3, as the local star that she is indeed.
Nothing original you say, hmmm, I say her originality and creativity genius outpasses any other atists
You talk about The Beatles and Elvis ( who rarely even wrote his songs) but Madonna, as an artist, I'm not saying musician, although even there she is on the same level with them,
Madonna AS AN ARTIST is bigger than The Beatles or Elvis, in fact she is the most exceptional artist of the popular culture
Intellectual genius: her carrer in music is the shrewd product of this genius
Genius of sensibility: she has proven, over and over again, that she is it, the unifying whole of the higer human feelings and atitudes towards their peers, world and humanity

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 13:51pm


Madonna is the only female artist that could, as a game of imagination, not to look in Elvis's eyes, cause she wouldn't find there nothing THAT special,but to look in John Lennon's eyes, without having not anything to be be humble upon, and say: what you know I know, but, in addition to your art, I had the ability to transform that art in so many ways, to give that art so many faces, that in the end you will realize how much of a bigger artist I am than you or not

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 14:08pm


Madonna AS AN ARTIST is bigger than The Beatles or Elvis, in fact she is the most exceptional artist of the popular culture - hoiasoia

I cannot even comment on this ridiculous statement. You are here to just flame on the Material Girl and nothing else. And I don't even know what your last comment even means. Is that some kind of quote from Madonna?

No more point in trying to have a discussion with you. Your opinion is meaningless now.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 15:27pm


I thought that when hoiasoia said Madonna was a goddess, he/she meant it as a metaphor. I'm afraid I was wrong. There's no point arguing with a religious fanatic. Especially not with a Madonnist.

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 15:28pm


Yep Yep she is the best. Why? Oh why?
If you have her face, you don't have her intelligence
If you have her face and intelligence you don't have her body
If you have her face and intelligence and body you don't have her voice
If you have her face and intelligence and body and voice you don't have her carisma
If you have her face and intelligence and body and voice and carisma you don't have her ambition
If you have her face and intelligence and body and voice and carisma and ambition you don't have her creativity genius
If you have her face and intelligence and body and voice and carisma and ambition and creativity genius you don't have her luck
If you have her face and intelligence and body and voice and carisma and ambition and creativity genius and luck you don't have her inner strenght
etc. etc.

Posted by hoiasoia on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 16:30pm


Madonna wouldn't even be allowed stand in the room with Zelda Fitzgerald.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 07.1.08 @ 18:10pm


Madonna has sold 200 million albums and 100 million singles, worldwide, that means 300 million audio units sold in the entire world
She's the 3rd best selling music act worldwide, behind The Beatles and Elvis

Posted by papithefanbuoy on Monday, 07.7.08 @ 09:12am


Actually, there are 6 sets of artists that have sold over 400 million (and the first 5 on this list are over 500 million):
1) The Beatles
2) Bing Crosby
3)Elvis Presley
4)Frank Sinatra
5)Michael Jackson
6)ABBA

I don't really know what that has to do with the HOF, but someone simply needs to get their facts straight. ABBA still sells 2 to 3 million 25 years after they broke up. I think the nominating committee has yet to really start choking on Madonna's induction. They should just call it "The Popular Music Hall Of Fame" It's going to be hard for them to go back into the past now and induct people who deserved way more than she did because that would mean they "goofed"!!! It was just a popularity induction with no real merit at all.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 07.7.08 @ 19:30pm


Abba is in US at RIAA 10.5 Platinum and in Europe at 50 million albums shipped. Very very far from Madonna who is in US at RIAA 63.5 Platinum (undercertified) and is Europe's bigest selling solo musician at 75 million albums shipped

Frank Sinatra is in US at RIAA 25.5 Platinum and internationally has never been a huge star. His wikipedia sales number is an invention.
The same for Bing Crosby,he hasn't sell over 900 million records as Wikipedia quotes, because not even The Beatles haven't sold that
The Beatles and Elvis are in front of Madonna worldwide, Elvis not by far and Beatles by far, very far
Michael Jackson is worldwide in term of albums sales behind Madonna but close but in term of singles sales Madonna outsells him easily
European Album Sales

Rank // Year 1rst Album/Last Album / Artist / Total sales
1 // 1963 1970 Beatles - 92,500,000
2 // 1973 1995 Queen - 80,050,000
3 // 1983 2005 Madonna - 74,600,000 [incl. 1M for Hard Candy]
4 // 1979 2001 Michael Jackson - 70,200,000 [incl. 1M for Thriller 25]

Posted by papithefanbuoy on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 01:03am


Abba is in US at RIAA 10.5 Platinum and in Europe at 50 million albums shipped. Very very far from Madonna who is in US at RIAA 63.5 Platinum (undercertified) and is Europe's bigest selling solo musician at 75 million albums shipped

Frank Sinatra is in US at RIAA 25.5 Platinum and internationally has never been a huge star. His wikipedia sales number is an invention.
The same for Bing Crosby,he hasn't sell over 900 million records as Wikipedia quotes, because not even The Beatles haven't sold that
The Beatles and Elvis are in front of Madonna worldwide, Elvis not by far and Beatles by far, very far
Michael Jackson is worldwide in term of albums sales behind Madonna but close but in term of singles sales Madonna outsells him easily
European Album Sales

Rank // Year 1rst Album/Last Album / Artist / Total sales
1 // 1963 1970 Beatles - 92,500,000
2 // 1973 1995 Queen - 80,050,000
3 // 1983 2005 Madonna - 74,600,000 [incl. 1M for Hard Candy]
4 // 1979 2001 Michael Jackson - 70,200,000 [incl. 1M for Thriller 25]

Posted by papithefanbuoy on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 01:03am


1. The Beatles (over 500 million records shipped worlwide)
2. Elvis (over 300 million records shipped)
3. Madonna (close to 300 million records shipped)
4. Michael Jackson (over 250 million records shipped)
These ar the big four, anyone who is behind him have NOT SOLD WORLDWIDE more than 200 million records (albums and singles), although their record companies can always claim that and inflate numbers, as they did with ABBA, MJ etc

Posted by papithefanbuoy on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 01:13am


Does anyone really care whether Madonna, ABBA or Michael Jackson has sold more units than anyone else?

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 04:08am


Dameon...This other person obviously does! Record sales don't always add up to a truly great artist (see Backstreet Boys), and all through her page I don't really see a good argument outside of popularity for why she was inducted.

Besides that, I'm not carrying on a conversation with that person because they obviously know everything. I'd rather have conversations with people who are knowledgable about the rock music culture as a whole (like you), and not just one artist.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 06:27am


Comparing Madonna with BSB is like comparing Led Zeppelin with Foo Fighters
Madonna is The Artist of Pop Music and not only pop music
This womans had so manyy style, class and creativity genius that has put to shame all of the mainstream cheap dinosaurs

Posted by papithefanbuoy on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 08:48am


Gltarzan - as many people here have stated, sales alone is not one of the criteria used by the RnR HoF committee when deciding who should get nominated. However, I do believe that the actual voters do look at sales as some kind of measuring stick when casting their vote on the proposed nominees.

I don't want to take anything away from Madonna. Even I understand that she has had an impact on the popular culture and she certainly influenced many pop stars/singers that followed over the years. She is in the HoF and I won't bitch about that. But I ask myself, would her impact had been as great without MTV? Would she have succeeded on this level without it. I am not smart enough to answer that with 100% certainty. My opinion is no, she would not have. But I have this thought about many bands that hit it big with the assistance of MTV.

The dynamics of the HoF itself seems to change every year. As much as I hate agreeing with Liam, it is quite clear that a lot of great bands immediately after the punk scene hit have been totally overlooked; Joy Division, Gang of Four, etc. We know that politics play a major role because there is no reason why Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, ELP, King Crimson, YES, Stooges, NY Dolls and dare I say KISS are not yet in. I can't wait to see what they do when they actually start getting around to the 80's and 90's, all genre's included.

I guess only time will tell. But I do agree with you; trying to have a real conversation with a fanboy is frustrating and painful.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 09:01am


Dameon...Indeed!! When this person talks of "inflated sales reports", I guess that could apply to Madonna, too. Oh, well...It will be interesting to see how things unfold as the years go by in the "RRHOF" (I state it that way because I'm not sure what it is anymore). As far as Madonna goes, it's just too simple to listen to a "fanboy", as you put it, say that she has done XYZ over her career, and the comeback is almost always "XYZ has been done before...only better". After that, the argument gets redundant, and takes away from discussion on a diverse field of artists and topics, which I find more enjoyable.

If they're "fans"...great!! Just don't try to convert me when I've drawn my own conclusions on certain artists. A "conclusion" is just that...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 07.8.08 @ 20:53pm


"Guys you ll needto stp ths Madonna stuff... she is deserves to be their!! Period!!"- STeve

Okay STeve, having made that profound little statement, why don't you explain to us why MTVdonna deserves to be in the HOF...and please be rational and try (at least a little bit) to use the criteria set forth by the nominating committee (that they seem to forget at times). I still firmly believe her nomination set a bad precedence and it will eventually come back and bite them in the butt...hard!!! Simply a popularity induction, and not as popular of one as they think!

We will look forward to your next syllable with great enthusiasm!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 07.28.08 @ 18:24pm


The day Madonna was inducted was the day the music died

I can only hope something this atrocious never happens again

Posted by :,( on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 20:23pm


The day Madonna was inducted was the day the music died

I can only hope something this atrocious never happens again

Posted by :,( on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 20:23pm



Sad to say but true.... The rock world is all Mad-ona and BIG MONEY .. Heck she should run for Office.. True Hollywood HYPE

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 22:36pm


mrxyz...Wow!!!! There is something we both totally and completely agree on!!! Yes, she is the very definition of true "Hollywood Hype"!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 08:07am


mrxyz...Wow!!!! There is something we both totally and completely agree on!!! Yes, she is the very definition of true "Hollywood Hype"!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 08:07am


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think we dis -agree on much.. once you have the facts you seem to come around..

Kinda like the Surfaris and Jim Fuller..Belairs, Sandy Nelson and Dwain Eddy..The real fathers of surf and the best players...
If ya did not know you would go with the Hollywood HYPE...

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 08:22am


I don't think we dis -agree on much.. once you have the facts you seem to come around..mrxyz

Likewise, I'm sure!! Kowabunga, dude!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 08:43am


Really- anyone still debating Madonna's merit in the R&R Hall of Fame needs to do their research- and not about sales figures. What she has done in her music, videos, stage shows- not only is she a terrific tour de force when itcomes ot those areas, but what she has done in terms of gender, relgious, sexual and social mores- THAT is what makes one a huge cultural *and* musical icon. It is what separates her from eveyrone else. Heck, even the Beatles and Elvis- huge cultural and musical icons- didn't do what she did- and that's why she's in a league of her own. Though, they have more musical respect (not to say Madonna doesn't, as she's clearly garnered a great amount of acclaim).

Obviously not every inductee was a cultural force to be reckoned with- but- hopefully- they all have brought something to the evolution of *music* and the artform through the years- something that wowed, provoked and was its own. So many acts that are debated didn't really do that (um, any teen-pop act since 1999 hasn't done anything remotely close to that, for instance). And middle-of-the-road, lightweight acts- don't expect them to be seriously considered, either.

Posted by JR on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 09:40am


Jr...She really isn't anything more than a publicity hog. By "re-inventing" herself, one could consrtue it as she "goes where the money is". She's all about self-promotion. Having lived through the Beatles phenomenon and being very schooled about Elvis, she's not even close to being in that league! Comparing her to them is ridiculous!! She changes religions like most people change their mind. Through it all, she's been devoted to one thing...Madonna!!! Inducting her into the ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME was a blatant slap in the face to true innovators and influential artists who have been snubbed.

Let me fill you in about the "gerrymandering" within the hall. The Dave Clark 5 (who I will argue forever were MOST deserving) were actually voted in THE PREVIOUS YEAR!! Jann Wenner personally blocked it (from what I understand) so Grandmaster Flash (another unworthy induction) could be inducted (wouldn't want to make the rappers mad), where there are more innovative and original artists in that particular genre.

Madonna's induction was a popularity induction...didn't have anything to do with innovation or influence (which if you look really hard at the history of popular music, she has neither!!). Go back to the 70's and listen to Teena Marie, for instance, and you'll figure out where Madonna's style came from (by the way...she's NO Teena Marie!!!).

Someone on here referred to her as a "media whore"...that about covers it!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 10:55am


JR...this is Teena Marie, who predates Madonna just a bit. She was produced by Rick James, for the most part. She really had some good stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYCXvynb_Es

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 11:07am


Everyone...this 1956 performance by Elvis on Milton Berle was referred to by Bono from U2 as the "big bang of rock & roll". it created a frenzy...both good and bad...like popular music had never seen before and rarely seen since. Funny thing is, he didn't even try to accomplish that (like some "media whores" we know).

Anyway, this is what a true Rock & Roll "legend" looks like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5JALwwaASg

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 11:24am


Notice how 9/10th's of the arguments for Madonna end up taking the form of amateur sociology debates? Stop clubbing us over the head w/the social/gender stick and get to the songs! Her Ladyship has done precious little to warrant the kind of hype she has received FOR HER MUSIC! That's the operative term here. Much of her 80's work sits comfortably in a simple dance zone, w/little to spare. A few songs ("Live to Tell" being I believe the most notable) sit on the edge's of the 80's synth-driven end of New Wave. I don't no why, but I've always felt Berlin or Human League could have gotten away w/ that one. After Seattle hit, the majority of her work centered once again around the dance clubs, where she was safe from the obvious (what was with the black dress & doc martens in the mid-90's? Did she somehow think this would really work?). As she has aged, her Ladyship has gotten gradually worse off, letting her music fall into a tired new age style, and all those team up's are an attempt to disguise the fact she can't catch up to the new kids.

From a club perspective she has been great. From a rock perspective she has done precious little to warrant anything more than an extra-large footnote in rock history.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 05:29am


Why should it be just about the music? If your music has a big impact on culture and society, you probably are a big player. Off course sociology and cultural studies should play a big part in these discussions. There probably wouldn't even be a Rock n Roll Hall of Fame if the music didn't have a large cultural and sociological impact. If this music didn't have an impact on everybody's lives, nobody would care about it.

You want to debate the music, but that will be just a battle of opinions and tastes. Where are the facts in that? What you call a tired new age style, another person would call refreshing. You say she teams up with people like The Neptunes, Justin Timberlake and Timbaland to hide that she can't catch up, and I could say the success of "4 Minutes" probably shows she still knows how to connect to her audience. You say she was quite safe in her dancepop corner, I say "Like a Virgin" has to be one of the most controversial songs ever recorded. The only way you could debate the music, is by looking at the reception and the impact, not the quality. Quality is just too subjective, too difficult to seperate from your own taste.

"From a club perspective she has been great. From a rock perspective she has done precious little to warrant anything more than an extra-large footnote in rock history."

And here's the problem. Why do you need to look at it from a rock perspective? Because the word "rock" is in the name of the hall of fame? In pop music, she's among the dominant acts. She's more than a footnote in the history of pop, she probably has an entire chapter devoted to her. Why can't that be enough? What's so special about rock music that the entire history of music after rock n roll should be judged against their standards?

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 06:29am


Claw...First of all, sorry about the typos...it's early. You and I also agree about a lot of things, but sometimes the differing of opinions makes it more interesting.

Madonna always has had a pattern of popping up "after the fact" when the landscape of music changes, which makes me question her innovation. More recent bands (such as Nirvana) who people think are going to be worthy of the HOF are certainly not listing her as an influence, and let's face it...the dance-pop stuff being performed today is basically the same tired tune. The Britneys, etc...of the world are thinking "if Madonna can do it..." not "boy, that's gonna be tough to top". The whole "Erotica" thing was just soft-porn and could've just as easily been produced by Vivid Productions. The reason I brought this up is because she stepped out of the realm of music to stir "controversy/be obnoxious".
I don't even recall any of the music connected to that. the "Like A Prayer" thing had been done before in different ways...once again, using a visual medium to get a rise out of people. The song itself certainly didn't.

That's kinda why I posted the Elvis/Milton Berle video. Elvis didn't try to create controversy or be "obnoxious" (which a lot of people cussed "Uncle Milty" for letting that "vulgar screeching & gyrating" creature on his show), he just went out and PERFORMED!!!

When Milton Berle saw all the "pan" letters from people, he contacted Col. Parker (Elvis' manager) and said "Colonel...you've got a superstar on your hands".

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 08:38am


Gitarzan- your opinion is not an uncommon one, but thankfully the people who make the decisions on and discuss what the best music and most important artists out there think differently. :)

As stated, cheesecrop and Gita- it's not just about the music with Madonna- never has been. But that doesn't take anything away from the greatness of it, or the impact. The Immaculate Collection stands as a soundtrack of its era, an album whose tracks defined the mood and politics of its time- by the tracks, the videos that accompanied them, the stage shows in which she presented them. No question Madonna benefited from coming into play just as MTV did- and she worked the medium to her utmost advantage, better than anyone (Michael Jackson in there, as well). How anyone can look at what she's done through the years and not acknowledge that she's had huge influence and impact on culture and the entertainment world? Is it that bitter a pill to swallow, because she's not ROCK? For cryin' out loud, the R&R HOF is NOT Just about ROCK music. I'm not the biggest fan of some of the revolutionaries out there (revolutionaries whether for JUST the music, or a combination of everythign related to it), but I give them their deserved props (without backhanded or sarcastic commentary).

You guys (and some others) act as if Madonna and her music haven't received a great amount of acclaim and praise- it has (to get an idea, check out www.acclaimedmusic.net).

Madonna is everything people claim she is- template for pop music over the last 25 years? Check. Master videomaker of the last 25 years? Check. Master media manipulator/media "whore" of the last 25 years? Oh absolutely. Master marketer? No doubt. Master of the stage show? Indeed. One of the best at merging art and commerce? HELL YEAH. The latter is what separates her from contemporary acts (especailly females)- she always took risks in how she expressed herself through her music, videos and concerts- she had something to say- the music would have stood alone just fine, but she wasn't interested in making it that easy, and it wouldn't have accomplished her goals. And yay for that, because the world would have been a helluva lot less fascinating if she hadn't.

Posted by jJR on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 09:40am


Jr...I do respectfully acknowledge your opinions, and Madonna is good for a lot of fodder and bantering on this site. That being said, do you think that her music...her core body of work...had that much to do with her success, or was it the visual aspect? If she had come along earlier...with no MTV...would she have been able to compete with the Donna Summers of the music industry? I guess we'll never really know (for my part, I'd say "no"), but when it comes down to it, it IS about the music. I think she's a visual artist that just happens to sing. With someone like Elvis, I think making movies was a waste of time...his real forte was live musical performance. Madonna goes out of her way to stir up controversy, the really great artists over the years just did their thing and the general public decided what they thought of it.

Madonna, like I've said before, is great at self-promotion...she never met a camera she didn't like. She can either be thought of as "brilliant", or as one of the great con artists of all time, which we have differing opinions...and that's totally okay.

I respect your opinion, hopefully you respect mine, because it simply is my opinion.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 09:59am


Ok guys - let's settle this once and for all.

Madonna is in the Hall of Fame. She is there because through whatever means she used, she did help perpetuate contemporary music as an artform. Personally, I think she sucks musically, but we cannot take away from her what she has done visually. She has certainly influenced her genre. She is not on the same playing field as The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks or any of the legends. But she is certainly on the same playing field with Bon Jovi and many of the other MTV children.

And she is pushing for The Stooges induction, so she can't be all bad. Where do you think she picked up that stage presence of hers? None other than Iggy.

So let's bury this and hope that we see some of the passed over legends get inducted:

Alice Cooper, King Crimson, ELP, The NY Dolls, Joy Division, The Cure, The Smiths, Deep Purple, Cheap Trick, and so many others. I just don't get this voting body at all.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 11:09am


...another thing to be realized, in comparison, if I were Capt. Kirk, Madonna would be queen of the Klingons! If you don't care for someone's body of work, then you're naturally going to downplay it's significance.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 11:10am


Well Dameon, you either just settled it or poured gas on the fire...LOL...ROFL!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 11:15am


Gita, I do respect your opinion- heck, Madonna is one of the great artists to inspire this kind of debate- it definitely makes for great back-and-forthness. To think it's been going on for 25 years! That's why everytime she has a new project coming out, the "Is she still relevant" question comes up and people write a lot about it- if she weren't relevant, I don't think anyone would be wasting their time pondering the idea.

You're right, we'll never know that had she emerged in the pre-MTV age, if she would have become what she did. But she came at just the right time, in terms of what she wanted to do- and videos were a great means for her to do so (also stage shows- she set a template in that field, as well). We do have different viewpoints about the music, but I absolutely love her music, just as I love Donna Summer's. And Madonna no doubt was influenced by her- but, because she came at the right time and wanted to press societal buttons with her work, she went on to become the biggest and most important female performer of the last 25 years.

Elvis and the Beatles are in their own league- no disputing that. But, then we have Madonna and Michael Jackson, who are in their own league, and certainly are far above an act like Bon Jovi in terms of musical acclaim and importance to the evolution of music and how one expresses him or herself through it. Bon Jovi can fill arens and pack em in, but like I noted in another artist thread, the band would never be cited as one of the most important or best artists of all time (as the aforementioned acts are).

RE downplaying significance if you don't care for someone's work- well, I guess that varies person to person, Like I said for me- for example, I'm no big fan of Jimi Hendrix- I have a compilation album of his. But how in the world could I downplay oir try to reduce his significance? Same with Bob Dylan- I have two compilations of his, but I wouldn't consider mysslf much of a fan. But, there's no doubt of his importance, in what he did.

Posted by JR on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 12:07pm


The Claw brought something to my attention regarding the Madonna post that in reality underscores why I feel the prasie is not justified. He asks why the argument should be just about music and notes that there probably wouldn't be a Rock Hall if it was just only that. In addition, he asks why I should judge it solely through the perspective of rock and roll.

The sociological & cultural arguments tend to be safe and elastic ways of adding to an acts hype that require little in musical terms. That is enough reason to distrust them to start with. For years now hip-hop has been introducing literally nothing artistically new to mainstream music while hiding behind a social banner to cover themselves. If you want to talk about these things, ask yourself the critical diff. between Madonna & the other artists, and you will realize one thing: their social/cultural impact grows OUT OF, rather than is defined by, the music. With Elvis/Beatles/Zeppelin/Jackson/Nirvana, the music introduced the artists as the makers of the music first & foremost. Only later did their personas take form, and even then served as continued extensions of what was there already. The elaboration was encouraged by the artists, but some of it came from the open spaces they wisely left behind for their fans to fill in.

Madonna has done nothing of this sort. The image has always preceded the artist, and the music has been left to follow. When the music does work (Live to Tell/Cherish/Lucky Star tend to work precisely cause they don't follow this need for central image 1st) she can expand the image she wishes. This has happened too few times though. Consider a contemporary like the Smiths, whose singer Morrissey has engaged in a truly unique exercise in character building. The music had to come first, and luckily both he and J. Marr knew this. W/out "Girlfriend in a Coma' (or fill in what you want here) Morrissey never could've established the kind of nuance it took to create that special aura his fans feel exists. Perhaps this is the reason why when Seattle did hit, she looked so out of it. She approached the Alt. Rock audience w/ the logic of a dance audience in terms of grabbing attention, and the results were obvious.

This is the reason why I have given her little credit in the rock world. She has approached the hype in her career in a dance music form. In a universe of the absolute latest uber-hip producer/DJ/Remixer, this makes perfect sense. Her shoving her mug in front of every camera reflected this, and it worked for her. What precious little music she made that could've counted as rock accessible (the songs mentioned above are a few) were never followed upp on in any tangible manner. She had the chance to spin out of these into something different, but her mentality was never such. I give her all the credit in the world for her club success. If you wish to buy into the I & I argument that runs the gamut of these posts, then nothing can be farther from it, and still be in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, than Madonna.



Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 13:40pm


"the music introduced the artists as the makers of the music first & foremost. Only later did their personas take form, and even then served as continued extensions of what was there already. The elaboration was encouraged by the artists, but some of it came from the open spaces they wisely left behind for their fans to fill in."

That's fine for Elvis or Nirvana, but where does that leave David Bowie or the Sex Pistols, or possible future Rock Hallers Alice Cooper or Kiss or The New York Dolls, all of whom came up with their images first and then came up with music to match? What does it matter that she came up with the image first? How do you even separate the image and persona from the music? They're one and the same.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 18:59pm


but where does that leave David Bowie or the Sex Pistols, or possible future Rock Hallers Alice Cooper or Kiss or The New York Dolls, all of whom came up with their images first and then came up with music to match? (MBI)

I am not sure which image of Bowie you are speaking of, but when he released Space Oddity; he was basically just another long hair. He had no image. The Pistols image was more a sign of the times than their imagination of what their look should be. Alice, Kiss and Dolls did put an image to the music; but again, unless you saw them live, you wouldn't know about it. The Dolls had zero radio play, Cooper didn't have any until Schools Out and 18 and Kiss was langushing on the radio until the live album. If these three bands hit in 1981 instead if the late 60's, early 70's, they would have ruled MTV.

Again, Madonna is in. It is not because she was a patron of I&I. It is because she perpetuated an artform, like it or not. And that is an induction criteria.

Madonna carved her image in the Lower East Side Clubs knowing full well what avenues lied ahead. Let's remember US radio at the time. It was either AOR stations who basically only played the legends of the 60's and early 7o's, College Stations and top 40. 6 years later -Although Disco died, dance music didn't and the stations which catered to this genre played anything new that came out. I think it was Borderline, that had a ctachy dance beat and cute video to go with it. MTV ran with it and why not. Cute chick with an edge who had well choreographed videos. WHo wouldn't buy it?

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 20:30pm


FWIW, the only 2 songs of hers that I've ever really liked are 'Material Girl' & 'Pappa Don't Preach'.

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 05:44am


Madonna is bigger than Beatles, Elvis and MJ alltogether

Culturally speaking she has became beyond culture, beyond delluded critics and opinions
from self-obnoxious and pretentious unknown musicians
Beatles, Elvis and MJ look like retarded children in face of Madonna's huge personality and musical genius

Posted by claudia on Friday, 09.5.08 @ 16:58pm


Beatles, Elvis and MJ look like retarded children in face of Madonna's huge personality and musical genius (Claudia)

Claudia - please step away from the apple martini's! Clearly you are suffering from some sort of alcohol poisoning.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.5.08 @ 17:36pm


Where do these "people" come from?? Is there some other frightenly talented Madonna that we don't know about??

Well, Claudia got the part about her "huge personality" (aka...ego) right!! Madonna is DEFINITELY Madonna's biggest fan!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 09.5.08 @ 18:08pm


No Gitarzan - after reading that Madonna makes The Beatles and Elvis look like retards, I think we now know who Madonna's biggest fan is. Even Madonna wouldn't say something so absurd as that.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.5.08 @ 18:38pm


Dameon...I hear ya, brother...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 09.5.08 @ 18:42pm


Madonna is in the Rock Hall

Is not The Classic Music Hall
Elvis or Beatles wrote structurally simple songs, pop-rock songs, not symphonies. Cough, Elvis didn't wrote nothing. MJ had his biggest album with the big help and writing skills of Quincy Jones.
It was their energy, passion and performances that put them in front. They didn't graduated music schools to write songs. It's all popular music, not some complicated out of tough thing. They had stying power and become icons, just like Madonna. She emerged as the classic pop star, but evolved artistically, musically and in terms of peerformance immencely.
There r many musicians way more talented and skilled than Madonna Elvis or Led Zeppelin still they can't sell a single album or single. U have to have that -it- factor,to put yourself outthere and deliever an amazing performance. Elvis, Mj, Madonna, Beatles and many others had that. They also had staying power and creativity in them.
I s one thing to write a good song and another thing to make it a success. u need that star quality, which they had.
Rock n roll is performance atitude and of course music skills.
U cant compare Like a virgin singer with the Ray of Light singer. Madonna evolved in time going throgh rough times and good times. she learned guitar, took singing lessons while still maintaing her beauty and acting in doubtfull music.
she had the energy of the biggest rock stars but expressed it in the pop culture domain.
Elvis Madonna and others belong in the same class:iconic status, great performances, great music. Madonna has some of the greatest pop songs in her catalogue, that's a fact and if u deny this than u have ill intentions. Many se wrothe herself, she's bgeautiful and talented, she wrote many of her songs, Elvis diddnt wrote at all

Posted by metzelder on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 05:33am


Madonna s music will last forever
she desearves it
she's the best performer ever, a beauty icon and an amazing musician

Posted by metzelder on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 05:50am


As someone who initially supported Madonna's induction on the basis of influence, your long, rambling speeches have swayed me. Kick her out.

Posted by William on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 06:31am


Madonna sings average, she plays merely plays guitar she is not creative she just have the image that attracted young girls to sell records. She is a sellout she never made a masterpiece ever she is a slat, she probably slept with men to get in the Hall of Fame

Posted by Old School on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 06:03am


Madonna has sucked, does suck, and will always suck. Old School said in his/her comment "she probably slept with men to get in the hall." that wouldn't surprise me cause Madonna is a slut and so is anybody who likes her "music." Especially that retard Claudia.

Posted by Alfonso on Saturday, 10.11.08 @ 10:02am


POOP

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 10.16.08 @ 13:57pm


Madonna is not even an actual musician. The only thing she has ever done is sing (which she does average at best). I'm waiting for an explanation from the Hall who dismisses the popular rock bands from the late 70s and early 80s as "corporate rock" and then lets this record company prop in on her first year of eligibility. Until then, I'm assuming she gave Mr. Wenner a blowjob. Hope herpes was worth it Jann.

On a side note, I recently saw her picture on the cover of her latest album and my reaction was "Ewwww. Gross. I can't believe A-Rod actually cheated on his hot wife with that skank."

Posted by Randy on Sunday, 11.2.08 @ 17:53pm


Okay...I need to start in on Madonna once again. For some reason, she's not on RS's "100 Greatest Singers" list. How could they make such a mistake???? If she's not a great "rock singer", then what exactly is she...and just how did she get into the "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame"????

If there hadn't been an MTV, Madonna's music couldn't have even been described as second-rate disco...right up there with "Makin' It" by David Naughton. The controversy she stirs has nothing to do with music, it has everything to do with how OBNOXIOUS she can be in front of a camera. She's a cut-rate, talentless "media whore" and con artist who has duped the masses into buying in to what she's doing. Now, if people are willing to buy her music, go to her "concerts", etc...., I guess that's their prerogative. But the "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame"...give me a break!!!! She has no more business in there than I do!!! It was strictly a popularity induction...and a very, very BAD move on their part!!! That one move absolutely made me lose faith in that process. I was not aware they had a wing for con artists!!!

I remember seeing her on the MTV VMA's shortly after she got really "popular"...she had this smirk on her face like "yeah, I got you brainless people fooled". If she would've thanked everyone who was instrumental in her "career" at her induction, she'd still be standing there.

This is the reason I don't talk much about who should be inducted on this site...there's too many "blunders" like her already inducted. I like just talking ROCK with knowledgeable people out there (you know who you are). It's a shame how many real deserving artists had to sit and watch her get inducted...I think it would leave a sour taste in my mouth!!!! Then again, maybe they now know there's no relevance to it...just an ugly building in Cleveland...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 08:51am


"She's a cut-rate, talentless "media whore" and con artist who has duped the masses ... I was not aware they had a wing for con artists!!!" - Gitarzan

(haha) Gitar, settle down now. I don't love her either. And yeah, the sleazy wench is now immortalized in the world's 2nd (or is it 1st?) most ugly building. But, let's not give up altogether on the process. Afterall, one person's ugly is another person's cute. Let's be glad she got in on first try, cause now there's no more need to discuss her.

Posted by Telarock on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 09:14am


Madonna was already inducted.

Since she's already there, that means she is way better (hmmm...)than the following artists/bands:

Mary Wells
The Marvelettes
Nina Simone
Junior Walker and the Allstars
Ben E. King
Tammi Terrell
Edwin Starr
Deep Purple
Alice Cooper
Robert Plant

What do you think?

Posted by gibraltar on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 21:12pm


It's not about being 'better'. Most of the artists you listed (all?) are better singers, no question about it. But Madge's historical importance is higher (yes, even higher than Deep Purple or Alice Cooper). Madonna would get a chapter in a book on music history, Tammi Terrell, Edwin Starr and Nina Simone at best a paragraph. That's the main reason why she's in and they aren't. Yet. That doesn't mean there is no hope for these artists, they just don't have the relevance to be inducted in their first year.

Btw, I do feel Alice Cooper, Deep Purple and Junior Walker should have been inducted by now. Robert Plant is already in for his biggest contribution to rock 'n' roll. I don't see a reason for a separate induction. The same probably goes for Ben E. King.

Posted by The_Claw on Friday, 11.21.08 @ 02:21am


Okay, no one has yet to give a viable reason for Madonna to be in the HOF. Rolling Stone pretty much summed up her singing prowess in their "Top 100" list. I've seen countless artists who could mesmerize an audience without all the props or "T&A". What would happen to Madonna if she were told "you can tour, but no props, T&A, or back-up dancers...plus you have to sing every song, no lip-synching!!!" She couldn't do it!!! She's had great producers, studio magicians, writers, etc..., and still wouldn't have made it without MTV.

Inducting her on the first ballot and leaving far more deserving artists who have been waiting for years out is an absolute disgrace!! She has basically pulled off the biggest scam in entertainment history...and people are still buying it. Now, if someone wants to crown her as some sort of "video queen", then that's understandable, I suppose. But the video is supposed to accompany the song, not vice versa!!!

Put everything else aside, and just concentrate on her music. How can anyone think she would've been around for longer than a cup of coffee on just that. Her success has very little to do with music, and all about her somewhat tasteless self-promotion.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 11.21.08 @ 18:31pm


I agree w/you on most of this, Gitar, but I will say that she could probably sing most of the songs on her own now. In the past she did have precious little in the way of vocal talent, but she had to learn a little in the mid-90's when she did that horrible "Evita" film. It's true that w/out the backing choreography she would be in deep crapola, but with a functioning band behind her she could pull it off today. There's no way she could charge the exhorbitant prices she does for a tour, and she'd be revealed as less of a talent than everyone thinks she is, but it would be passable.

Overall there are a couple of songs she did that were solid enough - "Live to Tell", "Cherish", the song for the Austin Powers film whose title I'm forgetting now, maybe "Vogue". Definitely not enough for the Hall. It was a scam, but she could pull it off today if she had to, and could probably handle the flak for being sub-par. It is the best scam in many years, though. Give her an opera clap for pulling it off, I guess.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 09:25am


Some comment here are clearly coming from some deluded losers. If Madonna can't sing, then why don't you guy go and make some records, became international megastars and millionaires in the process.It should be quite easy init?..Or at lest stars in your village...lol. But it's not of course coz you're just a bunch of retarded losers.
Madonna is the world's biggest selling female musician ever, has sold over 250 million records worldwide, is the world's biggest star, has about 50 brilliant songs released in her catalogue, countless awards, 7 Grammies, 37 US Top 10s, more than Elvis and the beatles. when u'll achieve that you'll have the right for an opinin, losers

Posted by Karl on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 16:50pm


Here is an opinion Karl - learn how to spell. Beside that, Madonna is the greatest of all media creations. No one can challenge that and considering her miniscule vocal range, she should be very thankful this Thanksgiving Day.

King Floyd - No one cares!

Posted by No One Cares on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 17:50pm


Here is an opinion No one cares!
I'm losing time on this site confronting losers like you

Considering also Beatles "miniscule vocal range" they qualify as the best rock and roll boy band of the 60s, indeed. If it were after the vocal range all rock, well almost, would qualify as poetry, not real music, in the classic sense. and yes u're full of shit, like always.

Madonna was more rock in her atitute than most of the rock bands would even dream of. Elvis, beatles, were all media creations, Elvis didn't write any fhis songs, beatles have made songs good for a good night sleep, Zeppelin have 70% of their songs plagirized from old soul singers, Bowie had no voice whatsoever, ac/dc are boring and after listening 2 times to Thunderstruck u realise what a bunch of over hyped those morons were etc.

Each to his own opinion> Madonna was always bigger than that shithole called Rock Hall or whatever. So F*** you, f*** Madonna's haters, but I'm entitled to my opinion. Go listen to your unwashed so called rock legends, bunch of drug adict uneducated queers calling themselves big revolutionaries, cough, my ass.

Posted by Karl on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 19:19pm


"Madonna was always bigger than that shithole called Rock Hall or whatever." - Karl
=====================================================
Watch your words mister(?). Rock Hall might be a great piss stain by the lake, but its OUR piss stain! And if you call it a "shithole", well ... you might be right, cause sleezy Madge is afterall in it now isn't she? Best be respectin!

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 20:47pm


Karl...you're a class act...and a vastly uninformed one at that. At least we know the "media whore" has devoted fans...oh, brother!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 21:01pm


I see someone has drank the Kool-Aid. Let's understand something, Zep got hit in court for ripping off one artist. To say 70% of their music is a rip-off is just showing your flames. John Lennon is considered one of the great vocalists of all time and to say Bowie cannot sing just shows your total ignorance. Maybe you should get behind A-Rod on the slurp line.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 03:14am


Dear Karl

"Madonna was more rock in her atitute than most of the rock bands would even dream of. Elvis, beatles, were all Karl , Elvis didn't write any fhis songs, beatles have made songs good for a good night sleep, Zeppelin have 70% of their songs plagirized from old soul singers, Bowie had no voice whatsoever, ac/dc are boring and after listening 2 times to Thunderstruck u realise what a bunch of over hyped those morons were etc."

I have know idea what "rock and roll atitude" should be ,If Madonna is it.. then rock sucks lol
As far as "Median Creation/ HOLLYWOOD HYPE "
YES LOT OF HYPE OUT THERE TO TO MUCH ..BUT MADONNA IS 80% HYPE 10% TALENT.She can sing ..it is to bad she doesn't just sing and keep the 5 ring circus out of it.. She hides behind it.A great Vegas Act..If you believe in "rabbits out of a hat"...It is also to bad that rock and millions of fans need it...


Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 09:52am


Karl -

I don't believe a damn thing you said... but I like the way you said it! You may count brain cells the way others count calories, but you're alright.

Stick around and let me hear what else you have to say about the big board here.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 10:29am


Karl's mad because we insult his "scam queen" too much...I don't think he'll be back. I think he's related to that "papi" person that used to haunt this site...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 10:45am


mrxyz...Ah, something we can agree on!!! If anyone invented the phrase "HOLLYWOOD HYPE", it has to be her. I've never seen a so-called "artist" manipulate the system as much as she has...considering she's an absolute HUMPBAG!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 10:49am


mrxyz...Ah, something we can agree on!!! If anyone invented the phrase "HOLLYWOOD HYPE",

I didn't know we dis -agreed,, I thought all I have done is point out non Hollywood Hype on what was the reals of the music thing..as in "ALL YOU NEED IS EARS" and open your eyes lol

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 10:59am


Well, we agree on most things, but sometimes the disagreements are more fun...LOL. I'll bet you didn't know that Madonna was "King of Surf Guitar"!!!!! I see her holding a guitar a lot anymore, so if you don't believe me...ask her...ROFL!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 11:09am


I'll bet you didn't know that Madonna was "King of Surf Guitar"!!!!!

why not?? she invented surf music it didn't she? lol

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 11:12am


Madonna only ever played one string, her G string. But she played it very well didn't she? Leave Karl alone.

Posted by bubble on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 17:14pm


Cannot leave Karl alone when he says absurd things.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 17:21pm


Madonna deserves to be in the RRHOF. See the problem with you naysayers is that you guys haven't listened to a Madonna album since the Mid 80's. For those who have listened since then you know that she continued to push the boundaries of her music. So!!! What's wrong with being creative and sexy.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 10:03am


Madonna has never pushed the boundries on anything. She's at best a follower...her music always veers toward "the "in" thing" at the time. To my knowledge she's never created the "in" thing, but always goes to "where the money is". I've never known her to be very original or trend-setting (musically speaking).

As far as listening to her music, how could you NOT listen to it, as much as we've had it force fed to us over the years.

I challenge anyone to name anything she's done that someone else didn't already do first...and probably better...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 14:12pm


Blah blah blah, Gitarzan
U're all full of it.
Of course MAdonna is not heavy rock or plain rock, she's pop, funky, soul, dance, pop-rock or a combination. Her roots are rock n roll. Some of these people here forget that she is a woman, was a girl, even Alanis Morrisette's rock was more "soft", so to speak, and her music catalogue doesn't fully qualify for an induction in a Rock HAll. But she is one of the most talented pop singers, some of you would be surprised to just how hard is to sing/perform even the simplest song, if u don't have that "it" factor, good stage performance etc.
The reason why she was inducted was her huge cultural relevance, her being a huge and titanic pop singer, plus the biggest genious and artist in pop music. U just can't say Madonna is this and that, coz there are many Madonnas, many faces of this complex genious and artist. She started with pop-rock, then softened to pop, pop-dance,then she did ballads, r'n'b and soul, then electronic,pop-dance and hip-hop (even-4 Minutes), all signiling the ecclectic nature of an amzing and unique genious and artist. And for her being somewhat of a bitch etc, I agree on that, but no one is perfect or will be, all people have all kind of flaws and especially beautifull women r known to be whores. Which just might be the case for Madonna. But an artist should be apreciated by his art/music/vision etc, not charecter, morality etc, this is like a rule in literatiure, art etc. An amazing ballad like Queen's Bohemian rhapsody touches the soul, but so does her song Like A Preyer, or some of her most amazing ballds, You'll See, Take A Bow, This
Used To Be My Playground etc.

She gave meaning and substance to her pop music,also made it personal and gave it the garment of an ontologic/erotic/spiritual journey and this is just one of her great achievements. HEr lyrics can be the most cheerful, and after several albums signiling the deepest philosophy on the human condition etc. And yes she's bitchy, unrepentful, shocking, but also she maintained her artistic integrity and genious throughout all of her career, which is also one of the most unique achievement of hers.
So I listened to David Bowie, well, he doesn't sing for sure, he just speaks and whispers. And John Lennon is not one of the greatest vocalists, this is a joke. In my book MAdonna's voice, her natural qualities (although obviously not having the highest range) are much more artistsic and pleasant to hear and enjoy than Lennon's.

Well that about it, it's my opinion and of course others are entitled to their. She's great, and here in Europe she's the best selling musician ever (3rd overall after Beatles and Queen). People love Madonna in Europe and she is the queen of pop in Europe, in US she is big too, one of the best selling female artists (2nd after Barbra Streissand if I recall), still worldwide she is by far the biggest selling female artist ever.

PS. I'm not trying to convince anyone about how great MAdonna is, history will make sure of that and who am I to judge, I'm just an asshole, just posting my opinion on her here, I do happen to love many rock acts like Zeppelin, guns N roses,Mettalica, Queen etc., but also i respect Madonna as an artist and hard working musician although from time to time she got on my nerves for being to sexual, bithy etc.

Qieem Of Pop, Madonna is the best forever etc.

Posted by Karl on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 18:24pm


...and she's been influential and innovative HOW...???? You people never give any viable reasons...AT ALL!!!! All you do is get on here with a bunch of mindless psycho-babble!!! I've given numerous reasons why she should've never been inducted. The idea she was even considered is just ludicrous!!! Her "fame" is primarily what she says or does in front of a camera.

Like I've stated here on numerous occasions..."No MTV...No Madonna...NO WAY!!!!"
Now...who's "full of it", Karl?? Come back when you've got a valid argument.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 18:40pm


Let's compare Zappa with Guns N Roses
some comments her proclaim zappa was a genious, in rock, etc , had countless albums, his songs are amazingle complex. But technique is not always being a genious and inovator in ur field, lots of times too much technique takes from sheer spontaneity and brilliance. This's the case with Zappa, no matter how complex are his guitar riffs, almost all of his song are boring and "stupid", he can be 10 times the musican axl and Slash were, but he just doesn't have a masterpiece like Sweet child Of Mine or November Rain. He just doesn't have it, coz he doesn't have the genious of an artist, just the technique and logic. technique is necessary of course, but if u don't know what to do with her, well, almost all of your song will be boring.

Let's now compare MAdonna with Aretha Franklin. If you ask a music critic who is better, he's say Aretha is (or not). But she's not, becoz although she has one of the best techniques (superior vocal range etc), she doesn't have the genious of an artist, like Madonna (or Michael Jackson in his prime, to give you another example.
Most of Aretha's songs, although amazingly sung etc, with a superior vocal range, lack that sparkle, that "it" factor, the natural brilliance and vibe, the life in them etc.
Whereas, although containg structurally way more simple songs, one can listen to Immaculate Collection 100 times and still doesn't get bored. Why? I don't know, might be also a problem of taste etc, but fact is that simpler is sometimes better than complicated and uninspired etc.
Most of aretha's songs, although appreciated and recognized by The grammies etc, are somewhat boring, for the common ear at least, whereas MAdonna's songs have proven no only to appeal univerally, but also the test of time, A "simple song" like Lucky star, if composed and performed today, would not seem inactual.

And MAdonna brought her own distinct style in pop music, which everyone recognizes, like only of handful of other musicians have succeded to do, the biggest ones. Plus she's probably the biggest icon, one of the best performers (probably the best solo performer, despite having the legs of a woman etc). almost all of her song are, lacking for a better term, good, meaning they have great melodic lines, and overall her voice and vision have evolved in time.

Posted by Karl on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 18:50pm


Where did you come up with that???? I'm truly amazed about how much credit she's given when it should be given to a bunch of top producers and writers.

She might seem like a genius to say...you!!! Her so-called style has dripped off the back of what others have done before...there's nothing original about her

Nice try, though...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 18:56pm


Karl, I love how you called her a "titanic singer," considering all the men she's gone down on to keep her career going. lol.

I hate Madonna's music... only two songs I ever cared for are "Cherish" and "True Love." But I've never cared for the rest of it. "Justify My Love" is the first song I ever remember hearing on the radio that I did NOT like! Still don't like "Vogue" either... and I'll forever fight on the belief that "Die Another Day" is the WORST James Bond theme EVER!

But I'm not gonna tell you she doesn't belong in the Hall. I'd be a hypocrite if I did. After debating on this very site about how Impact is an important pillar/criterion for meriting induction, I can't deny Madonna's induction worth. She HAS had an Impact. Even in a musical way, she's had an Impact. I don't like the kind of Influence she's had, but she did have the Influence: because of her, sex appeal is now a prerequisite for most of your female singers in the music biz, even if you try to promote them with a "sexy librarian" motif a la Lisa Loeb. And the Dixie Chicks (another act I absolutely hate)? They're the embodiment of every man's dream: a blonde, a brunette and a redhead at once! So I won't tell you Madonna didn't have Impact or Influence. She's influenced music by changing the standard of who gets their foot in the door long enough to be allowed to record music (indie scene notwithstanding). I won't claim her as an Innovator, and I won't claim to love her music, but I also won't claim to be against her induction, though I would have loved it beyond all else if it would have taken her a second nomination to get in.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 19:13pm


The majority of Madonna's songs were co produced or co written, some songs were made for her, at least in the beginning of her carreer. Her fisrt hits though were hers.
Innovation and originality...hmmm, she was influenced by different music acts and styles but the common place is that she made em HER OWN, AND IN THE PROCESS BETTER. This is the definition of a great artist, and there aren't many.
Beatles seem very original and distinct nowadays, but in their period (the 60s) they were just one of those many rock bands outthere (now forgotten), although they proved to be the best, through their consistant quality music, for a longer period of time.

Innovation? Hm well from Olivia Newton John to the Like a Prayer and Vogue music and videos, there's some inovation and modernity outthere. Although one of Madonna's other qualities is that she has always brought the new'inedit but without forgetting to put something timeless outthere, something that doesn't belong to the specific period in which it appeared, meaning her quality is that she was not a Vanilla Ice for 25 years, reinventing a Vanilla Ice every album etc, but always keeping that timeless element active in her work beah
She's just a great artist, and one of the best singers, in her particular range. That's all

Posted by Karl on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 19:22pm


Philip...that's fair enough, I guess. I have a tendency to focus strictly on her "musical ability" (even though I'm aware that more than that is taken into consideration...it can't be helped). There's just too many other artists more HOF-worthy, in my opinion.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 19:23pm


And I understand why people have hardly given credit her for anything, especially in US. When u have ur naked pictures published in magazines just when your career has started to take off (Like a Virgin being the first album for a female musician to reach 5 Platinum status in US), then when u publish a book with yourself naked etc, of course people will never call u an artist, a musician, just a prostitute that takes her clothes off to sell her music and make money. And there is some truth in there,coz deep down she is somewhat of a prostitute. A fan of her would just call her an overtly erotic nature etc. But even if a prostitute, problem is that she has been one hell of a talented prostitute. But then again that was when she was young, after she married 2nd time she settled down
And it's also a matter of age. If I'm 25 and let's say I like Madonna, her music etc and buy her albums, who knows, maybe in 10-15 years I will end up disliking her and liking, don't know, Norah Jones???? Who knows, her fanbase seems to be somewhere between, 18-30/35, when the blood is till hot??!! so to speak. MAybe after that one ends up liking celine dion, whi knows?

And to end up here, let's take her video for her song Rain
What is impressive about the song and video is that I, for instance, could never imagine myself or anybody else doing/ expressing artistic emotions etc like she does there, I mean I would look ridiculous. But somehow she makes it work, and this is another of her many talents, she just makes the thing work. Coz it's hard, and you have to think, to prepare, to collaborate with the director, to edit what you filmed, to synchronize the song/lyrics with the development of the video, and this is not easy, it takes talent, artistic vision and disponibility, hard work, (even good money, from another perspective), a good song until u reach the final product. Coz u can see the final product and say well it's cool, it's jsut another Kool Madonna video, but behund the final product there's a lot of skills and work, and there's of course Madonna, and all those unseen elements 2gether make it very hard, for most of the artists and musicians, to realize or even dream to realize what MAdonna has achieved with her nusicm videos, and perfromances. Some might think think it's easy and it's shallow (I can do that), coz u only see the surface, but it's not,and this is just only being yourself a shallow critic, coz u have forgotten all the element that combined ahve lead to the final product. bleh
So point is, u can call her whatever you want but there r some things that one can not take from Madonna: hard work, determination, intelligence, courage, "intelligent" beauty, a huge and divert back catalogue with some of the greatest songs ever created, versatility etc, bleh and others. al in all, say that she's nothing is just plain stupid and idiotic, and u know it, and if u really think so, then better u don't comment on MAdonna, coz is all in vain in the end. In the end she has achieved her goal, to become what she was, an amzing human being, or at least creating one (and also making some hundreds of millions of $ in the process, which is absolutely ridiculous and something to hate on for the rest of the kife).And this is where the haters come from, and in a way, they are right

Posted by Karl on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 20:08pm


Karl, admittedly, I couldn't make it all the way through your poast because of the grammatical errors and shorthand, but as far as the prostitute thing goes.... Madonna herself said that she considers losing her virginity a professional decision. Corporate prostitution per se.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 20:26pm


Good Lord, people. I think you all need to stop and realize that Madonna is nowhere close to being worth this kind of an argument. She's in already (much to the chagrin of people with actual taste in music). Let it go. There are countless artists on this site who deserve this heated of a debate much more than Madonna.

She's a trashy whore who only made it big because of the people marketing her. End of discusion.

Posted by Randy on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 02:46am


No there is no other artist more worthy than Madonna.

"There are countless artists on this site who deserve this heated of a debate much more than Madonna."

Really? Very strange since Madonna is actually the artist, ultimate artist

Posted by Karl on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 04:36am


Karl...you got the "artist" part right...only the term is "con artist". Maybe you should move to the States and get a whiff of her!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 07:41am


"She's a trashy whore who only made it big because of the people marketing her. End of discusion."- Randy

...seems like Randy (among almost everyone who frequents this site) has her pegged correctly. Now, isn't there a fan site where you can go kneel to the (porcelain) altar of Madonna, Karl???

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 07:45am


Marketing her? Madonna is generally considered to be the artist most in control of her own image. The person marketing her is herself. And no, I'm not naive or a fanboy.

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 09:23am


Claw...you're absolutely right!! As celebrities go, she's probably the best at marketing herself...makes people wonder what all the "fuss" is about. Her "talent" is more in marketing and exploitation that actually making music...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 09:30am


I meant "THAN actually making music..."

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 09:33am


okay, I too will weigh in on Madonna. I've read all the recent posts. as usual Phil, you are again the best commenter. Madonna's influence is undeniable, and influence is important to the folks at RHOF. Gitarzan, you have become rabid and irrational in your hatred of the "media whore" as you like to call her. oddly enough, you come over as a jilted former lover? come on now, get a grip!

today I went to the RHOF Annex in NYC. they actually had Madonna's bustier there along with other stuff on display. guys, do give her some credit, she knows how to put on show. I don't love Madonna, but I'm sure enough of myself to be able to admit I have her Ray of Light CD and even play it out loud in my car sometimes.

Karl, I could easily start in on you, but think you have suffered enough here. however, just one bit of advice for you. NEVER use any of these 4 artists on the negative side of any comparison:
Elvis, Chuck Berry, Aretha, the Beatles
these 4 are basically untouchable if you want to have any credibility (lets not go off on a tangent about this however. there may be 2 or 3 others as well).

think it was Phil also who said, Madonna should NOT have gotten in her first year of eligibility. she's certainly not any pillar of rock to merit that kind of honor! maybe thats what makes some folks so angry at her?

Posted by benny on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 22:17pm


Madonna compared to who? Ha? Elvis
Compared to Madonna Elvis had the brain of a chicken. The same goes for Aretha, Berry, but not Lennon. Lennon was a genious too.
Madonna is a much, much, much bigger artist than Elvis. Madonna's work is the product of a genious, Elvis was not an artist of genious. You f*****s have no idea of how brilliant a masterpiece like Ray Of Light or Confessions On A Dancefloor.
A song like Sky Fits Heaven, although so underrated,is one of the best songs ever. There are also a lot of amazing somgs, unknown to many, on American Life and Hard Candy. Some "critiques" here make a fool of themselves, coz they don't even know what they talking about, they don't know the songs

Media whore ha? what media whore? American radio haven't played her songs for almost 2 decades now, almost all US papers have bashed her throughout her career etc. the only media channel opened to her was MTV, but of course Madonna has grown bigger than MTV, she transcended pop, made from her music the journey of the most beautiful genious ever to walk this earth.




















Posted by Karl on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 10:58am


"As celebrities go, she's probably the best at marketing herself."

Really? Madonna is the worst at marketing herself. She never played it safe, and this is the worst marketing possible. She was never about selling as many of records possible, in terms of marketing you should know that when you put out a documentary like Truth Or Dare or a book like sex your sales will suffer, your public image too.

The only thing that saved her from all the messes that she has got into by herself throughout her career was her unique genious as an artist and visionary.

Madonna's art has also at its best so much depth that only few have reached or comprehended (as proven for example by some idiotic commentaries here about her). Bleh, and this is another one of her best qualities, she proved her brilliance not only in substance and depth but also in propane, being basically the best in these two fiels make her the most complex and brilliant artist in pop history

Posted by Karl on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 11:20am


Karl, I guess you are really just an instigator? you have lost any credibility with me, and any use of the word "genius" in the context of your writing has no power. you have done a poor job of representing for your artist.

also, if you keep hitting "submit" you will get repeat posts, which will make you look stupid.

Posted by benny on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 12:29pm


Karl, I am pretty sure they have medication for what ails you. But you keep praying to her Bra's. And while you are at it; please see if you can get A-Rod's autograph for me. - Thnx!

As for Madonna, her induction into the HoF was deserved; her hype as an artist is much bigger than her talent and if it was not for MTV, her career as a superstar would have ended before it began.

She is a cultural icon and influential performer. We can thank Madge for Britney (lunatic) Spears. She is a fair singer at best and can someone please tell me why she tries to play the guitar.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 12:35pm


Jilted lover...UGH!!!! I don't think I'd like to catch what she has to offer. I guess there's all sorts of ways to be considered a "cultural icon". People came out in droves just to see if someone could close Muhammad Ali's mouth, but today there's no questioning his cultural significance. I'm not comparing her to him by any stretch, but cultural impact is something that she has definitely sparked...regardless of the reason.

Blah...I guess I'd have to say that her induction and guitar playing (which, being a player myself I find laughable) must go hand in hand...some of us just don't quite get it. Of course, it hasn't helped over the years that I simply couldn't STAND anything about her, so of course everything... down to her even being successful... is a mystery to me. Add that to the fact that there are so many obvious (to me, anyway) omissions from the HOF, and it adds up to a bad combination from my point of view (which, by the way, is just that and no one has to agree with it).

Did any of you ever watch "Quick-Draw McGraw" when you were young? Remember "El-Kabong"? That's what someone needs to do to Madonna with her very expensine Les Paul Custom...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 16:34pm


Karl, I could easily start in on you, but think you have suffered enough here. however, just one bit of advice for you. NEVER use any of these 4 artists on the negative side of any comparison:
Elvis, Chuck Berry, Aretha, the Beatles
these 4 are basically untouchable if you want to have any credibility (lets not go off on a tangent about this however. there may be 2 or 3 others as well).

Posted by benny on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 22:17pm
--------------------------------------------------

No one should be considered safe - the very word "safe" in rock & roll should be considered nauseating.

Everyone - Including Madonna AND Lennon AND Elvis

AND Aretha AND Berry

should be questioned.

Rock music = Jaws. Think of it in those terms - keep moving or your dead, and that means constantly questioning the old as to it's relevance to the new. Some may fade out, some may return in a new form. Just don't be afriad to question ONE AND ALL!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 17:19pm


Oh man, where to begin?

"Madonna compared to who? Ha? Elvis
Compared to Madonna Elvis had the brain of a chicken. The same goes for Aretha, Berry, but not Lennon. Lennon was a genious too."

This statement is retarded beyond comparison. Elvis was an idiot-savant: talented but not trained. He didn't have a head for business, I don't think he could actually read music despite his ability to play some guitar, and he wasn't a prolific writer. But what made him great was what he could do: he could sing, he could perform, and he really put himself into most of what he did.

Chuck Berry and Aretha Franklin being idiots? You're joking, right? Chuck was over 30 by the time he hit it big, but as an acute observer of humanity and teens in particular, he could create songs that spoke to them. As for his ability to play... Bruce Springsteen said this about the Edge, but it applies to Chuck as well: "There are few guitarists who can create a whole world with their instrument, and he's one of them."

Aretha... I don't like her music, but I know she did have an incredible range and versatility to her ability to sing. You can't deny that.

"Madonna is a much, much, much bigger artist than Elvis. Madonna's work is the product of a genious,"

Whose genious [sic] would that be? Certainly not hers. Oh, and bigger artist? By what standard? What of Madonna's compares to Elvis's "Memories," "If I Can Dream," or even something like "You'll Be Gone"?

Maybe you're just incensed because Elvis could actually act.

"Elvis was not an artist of genious. You f*****s have no idea of how brilliant a masterpiece like Ray Of Light or Confessions On A Dancefloor.
A song like Sky Fits Heaven, although so underrated,is one of the best songs ever. There are also a lot of amazing somgs, unknown to many, on American Life and Hard Candy. Some "critiques" here make a fool of themselves, coz they don't even know what they talking about, they don't know the songs."

Fix your spelling errors and maybe then I can read this with a straight face.

"Media whore ha? what media whore? American radio haven't played her songs for almost 2 decades now,"

Bulls***. I work in radio, and I know for fact that you're full of it. Our Top 40 station played "Music," "Don't Tell Me," her duet with Britney Spears, and most recently "Four Minutes To Save The World" when they came out Our Lite Rock station STILL plays "Take A Bow," "Live To Tell," "Like A Prayer," "Like A Virgin," "Express Yourself," "Into The Groove," "Lucky Star," "Holiday," "Dress You Up," "La Isla Bonita,"... have I made my point yet?

"almost all US papers have bashed her throughout her career etc."

Really? I imagine most newspapers report the news. But maybe you mean the music critics for those papers. If they all bash her repeatedly throughout the year, shouldn't that tell you something?

"the only media channel opened to her was MTV, but of course Madonna has grown bigger than MTV, she transcended pop, made from her music the journey of the most beautiful genious ever to walk this earth."

She has never transcended pop. Despite being the biggest selling dance artist, the fact remains there have been very few songs that made the dance charts that didn't ALSO make the Hot 100. The Hot 100 has always been her bread and butter.

"Really? Madonna is the worst at marketing herself. She never played it safe, and this is the worst marketing possible."

Only when it fails. When it works, it's the best.

"She was never about selling as many of records possible, in terms of marketing you should know that when you put out a documentary like Truth Or Dare or a book like sex your sales will suffer, your public image too."

First of all, there's an adage that says, "Any publicity is good publicity." Second, those things didn't make her image suffer. Those things were borne out of what was already her image. What made her image suffer was becoming a mother, converting to whatever Hebrew spirituality she practices, and attempting to adopt a British accent. Not that any of those are bad things, just that they made her image suffer.

"The only thing that saved her from all the messes that she has got into by herself throughout her career was her unique genious as an artist and visionary."

No, the PR department of her record label(s), combined with the fact that scandal was where she lived most comfortably, is what "saved" her.

"Madonna's art has also at its best so much depth that only few have reached or comprehended (as proven for example by some idiotic commentaries here about her). Bleh, and this is another one of her best qualities, she proved her brilliance not only in substance and depth but also in propane, being basically the best in these two fiels make her the most complex and brilliant artist in pop history."

I freely admit I don't get her art, but mainly that's because I'm a straight guy. But what the hell does propane have to do with this? She going into the gas business now?

Look, I agree that Madonna deserved her induction, but your ignorance has shown so thoroughly in spades, that you could win a bridge tournament with it.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 17:43pm


Phil, you are too intelligent to trouble yourself with that long answer to Karl. he is a naive child who neither has any regard for history nor pays heed to good advice. let him have his Madonna lollipop (even if it is just empty calories that will rot his teeth).

I do want to answer Cheesecrop's statement:
"No one should be considered safe - the very word "safe" in rock & roll should be considered nauseating... Everyone should be questioned."

Cheesecrop, I seem to remember you expressing this previously, and I respectfully disagree with you. maybe its the math teacher in me, but everything, even rock music, has to have accepted fundamentals. e.g., Pythagorean Theorem has been demonstrated 100 different ways. we don't need to keep proving that for a right angle triangle:
a² + b² = c²
at some point we accept it and go on to higher order trigonometry.

likewise, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Aretha, and the Beatles have been accepted and proven to such a degree by any person who knows music. maybe it is up to every newcomer to prove it to theirself - its called learning the history. but if you are among knowledgeable people, you know you don't have to keep going back to square 1, defending artists like Elvis or Chuck Berry.

Posted by benny on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 18:18pm


Philip...funny you should mention that you work in radio. I think (once again, my opinion) that if the majority of radio was more "free-form" and less having some conglomerate like Clear Channel holding a gun to your head with their silly "playlists", I think we would've heard a lot more quality music and certain "undesirable" artists would've fallen by the wayside. It seemed that in the early to mid-80's radio took their cue from MTV, which we all know that a good video doesn't necessarily mean a good song. But that "visual" thing was a pretty powerful medium.

I wish I had a dollar for every time a song would come on the radio and someone would chime "Did you see this video...???"

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 19:11pm


benny, thanks for the flattery, but I don't feel at all worthy of such praise.

Gitarzan, bringing back free form radio isn't the answer. Free-form may bring some quality stuff, but it also brings stuff of low quality that just happens to be a deejay's favorite. IMO, what we need is divestiture of the radio industry. Reverse the Telecommunications Act of 1996. What is needed is more diverse ownership. Use independent research for each market to determine what will play, and less corporate hand-me-downs.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 19:33pm


Philip, please excuse the flattery. after reading all the garbage that came before, your writing seemed very good to me. thing about you is, you actually seem to read and understand what has been said, and then respond intelligently.

but in the interest of keeping objectivity, maybe we do need maintain a healthy rancor ("animosity" you illiterate f*****s!) ... also, Cheesecrop seems to feel consensus is nauseating - he advocates keeping "nobody safe." Cheesecrop, you will be the site commando. if you discover anybody trying to keep stuff safe, you smack 'em. (haha, haha)

Posted by benny on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 21:30pm


benny...No matter what level of "greatness" an artist has obtained, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like them. As far as the older ones go, it really is hard to relate to people what it was really like to experience those artists in their heyday...sometimes it just boils down to "you had to be there". I have found Cheesecrop and Philip to be sensitive to that and at least try to imagine what it was like to live in a given era. Others, as you have stated, just mindlessly spout off.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 22:27pm


MAdonna, last year's most prestigious inductee in the Rock Hall, is curently on the final stages of her sell out global tour, that will end up being the best grossing tour ever (not the biggest, but the best, per show). It is expected to gross 280 million $, in merely 4 months.
Her latest album Hard Candy is the biggest selling album this year released by an American musician. Her single 4 Minutes is one of the top 5 biggest sellings songs this year globally. All this at 50 years old, which makes it even more impressive.

To all her haterz here, must bring that famous Axl Rose quote:
Do you (even)know where the f*** you are? ...

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 08:31am


You are one sad little puppy. I really hope you don't cry when we blast you here? I have a feeling you do.

In Madonna's 27 year history, she has yet to record anything that will be considered a standard. The closest she has is "Like A Virgin" and it is not.

You mentioned Chuck Berry, Elvis, Aretha and the Beatles. Johnny B. Goode; Jailhouse Rock; Love Me Tender; Respect, are all industry standards. We won't even bring up the Beatles here.

I think most here have accepted and understand her induction into the Hall. She is a savy business woman who took minimal talent and went all the way with it. She kind of reminds me of the "69" Mets. Madonna is the Queen of Pop and I cannot dispute that. Her induction was deserved.

But she is not in the same musical league with the true greats.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 12:50pm


The standard for all pop music on behalf of Madonna's are albums like True Blue, Like a Prayer, Ray Of Light, Confessions... or The Immaculate Collection. You mentioning LAV as her closest to standard just shows how ignorant or misinformed or ill-intentioned you are.
An early song written by Madonna herself is standard for pop-rock. It's one of her underrated songs, although made it to the top ten,but it's also one of her most well crafted song that can easily be right up there with the best pop rock songs written by Beatles or the writers who wrote songs for Elvis.
And why shouldn't one bring the Beatles here? they wrote some pretty decent songs for the best boy band of the 60's, it's not like there haven't been hundreds of songs better than theirs since they broke up.

"She is a savy business woman who took minimal talent and went all the way with it."

Savy buisness woman??? She wasn't a savy one, since she prefered to maintain artistic and personal integrity instead of going for playing it safe and maintaining a dull and neutral public persona and keeping her music sales up.


Minimal talent? Pleazz.. minimal talent is Jessica Simpson or Miley Cyrus etc. The next level is Britney Spears or Cristina Aguillera, together with all the divas that have that high vocal range but on the long term they lacked the artistic genius (Whitney, C Dion, M. Carey, S. Twain and others). The highest level in terms of artistry, at least female artistry in popular music and culture is Madonna, but ONLY if one regards her achievements as an organic whole,as a whole.
Madonna's in a class of its own, she's unique, distinct and unreplaceable, pretty much like M. Jackson at his best.

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 13:50pm


And that early song written by Madonna herself that could easily stand as a standard for pop-rock would be "Burning Up"

And couldn'd she be in the same musical league with the true greats. Just coz she whored herself in a book called SEX or coz she didn't fallow the unwritten rules for a safe carrer doesn't take nothing from the genius artist that she has proven to be.
MAdonna is one of the standards for greatness, like very few of the recognized legends in popular music can-truly- be!

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 13:59pm


You can not be a minimal talent and have total album sales,worldwide (of course), bigger than those of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Eagles, basically bigger than all the biggest rock bands outthere save for The Beatles. It just doesn't works that way. It can work 5 years--see Britney, Backstreet Boys but not for 25 years and counting, and counting. Also Madonna being not so much of a huge artist in US, but probably the biggest American artist outside her country's borders tells a lot, somehow.

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:13pm


...sometimes it just boils down to "you had to be there". - Gitarzan
======================================================
hey Gitarman, liked yor post. As for above statement, think thats the purpose of the Rock museum. To preserve the memories so later generations can also appreciate those artists. Of course, Wiki and Youtube are also there for anyone who really cares to use them.

As for Karl, he has perhaps overreacted to all the Madonna haters. And now he's got everyone hating both him and Madonna! (smile) Now, I will suffer a child for the sake of educating him. And I will suffer a fool for the sake of his right to an opinion. But, Karl would do well NOT to disparage the contributions of those great artists. If someone thinks Madonna is a musical genius, we all accept that as being an opinion. When someone takes gratuitous shots at venerated artists - well, they lose me.

But then, I don't vote. And Candy Perfume Girl doesn't need anybody's vote now anyway.

Please pray for A-Rod. Not joking, he's gotten seriously messed up.

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:13pm


Karl.......Do you even understand what an industry standard is?

It has nothing to do with her fandom. It has nothing to do with record sales.

I do give Madge kudos for getting the Hall of Shame to wake up and push The Stooges for induction.

Are you related to St. Jimmy by any chance?

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:20pm


Never said Madonna is or has ever been a musical genius. Coz she's not. She is in my opinion an artist of genius and in time she has also evolved in a very talented musician.

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:23pm


Yep I can understand that. An industry standard is when they don't give you any Grammy for Like A Prayer- masterpiece album (coz u had a so-called scandalous video and well, generally, you're just too much of a risk to be given any award), when they don't give you in 1998 the Grammy for best album of the year for Ray Of Light and they give it to Lauryn Hill, an "hip-hop" musician, which by now is all forgotten and done with- as many could easily predict since back then

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:34pm


Karl, I see no less than 3 times where you said she is a musical genius. But if you want, we can forget it. To be honest, I'm beginning to feel bad about everyone beating up on you at this point.

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:53pm


Wait, you are making a distinction between artist and musician? I give up.

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:56pm


Madonna is a brilliant POP musician, one could call her a genius in pop music but music is also classical music etc, it s not just pop or rock etc., compared to a classical composer she's not a genius, nor is John Lennon (although he might be beter than Madonna, it doesn't matter). The distinction made was between a singer, just a singer (vocalist)and an artist (which incorporates writing skills, vocal skills, performance skills, putting your own soul outthere, transmitting unique, higher feelings in your lyrics, vocal and stage performances etc. In this regard one can see Madonna as one of the most brilliant artists ever, although she didn't write all of her songs and some of her artistry has an erotic component. Now if eroticism is not just being a cheap whore (which Madonna is not, in my opinion)but also part of the human existance and a way of expressing deeper feelings, it can be categorized as artistic expression. This is how some of her more erotic songs are not just well, erotic songs, they can be viewd as just that but they also have an artistic approach..
Ultimately it's all somehow subjective, and I can understand now why some call her the biggest whore while others the most amazing artist/thing to have walked on this earth or whatever...

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 15:26pm


Meaning Mariah Carey for example is a better singer (vocalist) but Madonna is the better artist (overall), she has a richer artistic nature and is more intelligent, in order to bring that artistic nature in as many as possible ways. That's why she prefers to call herself a performance artist, because it incorporates many things- writing skills, singing skills, visual performances, ecclectic artistic representations and so on

Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 15:56pm


Karl...the thing you have to understand about me (or not) is that my first exposure to Madonna was primarily on the radio...and I found her to be totally unimpressive. When she started getting regular reps on MTV, it was pretty obvious that with her, the video was going to make the song. Being a musician, I wasn't in total agreement with that concept...I felt that in a lot of cases the music was suffering for the sake of making a great video.

My girlfriend saw her in Denver a couple of weeks ago, and when I asked her how it was, she said "It was okay, if you like to watch someone work out for an hour and a half". She was also pretty positive that she was lip-synching at least part of the time, because she simply would've been too winded to sing that clearly (remember, we're talking about Denver...and the altitude does affect you if you're not used to it).

Now, charging over $100.00 for a ticket to watch someone lip-synch and work out is not exactly what I call giving people their money's worth, but that's what you get with Madonna...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 17:46pm


Karl, how do you know Madonna is more intelligent than Mariah Carey? Do you know them personally, if not then don't talk like that fool.

Posted by Lazy on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 18:30pm


I love that watchdog bit, Benny. I probably did go a bit overboard there. I do believe what I say, so I'll amend it slightly by saying the criteria can easily ebb and flow.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 19:17pm


Mariah has a higher vocal range and a music "critique" will always say she's a beeter singer. But personally i find Madonna's voice more beautiful and worm and hearful, especially in her ballads, her "lower" "register" is amazing and goes straight to the heart(don't know the technical term, when she lowers her voice and sings "deeper")
And Gitarzan Mariah as a person is an idiot. U are not that far too since u don't know that in her latest tour all her songs are live, plus she's also dancing and she's 50

Posted by Karlah on Wednesday, 12.3.08 @ 07:59am


Oh, gee Karlah...it's all live because Madonna said so, right??? In this case, it's highly unlikely (if not impossible). Even the local music critics wondered the same thing...I suppose they're all idiots too.

mrxyz...chalk up another "HOLLYWOOD HYPE" victim...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 12.3.08 @ 12:04pm


Noted: Karl is Karlah.
Karlah, I take it you are from Europe? I hope you have enjoyed the 'banter' on this (probably mostly?) American guys site. We sure did beat the hell outta you and Madonna, didn't we?

To all the haters of Madonna Louise Ciccone Ritchie:

"You can not be a minimal talent and have total album sales,worldwide (of course), bigger than those of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Eagles, basically bigger than all the biggest rock bands outthere save for The Beatles. It just doesn't works that way. It can work 5 years--see Britney, Backstreet Boys but not for 25 years and counting, and counting. Also Madonna ... probably the biggest American artist outside her country's borders tells a lot, somehow."
(Posted by Karl on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 14:13pm)

Karla's post above should have the last word. Madonna IS a tremendously successful artist. You may not like her, but none of you have unravelled the mystery of how she sold 200+ albums. Sorry, "Marketing" is not an answer!

Karla, good luck to you.

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 12.3.08 @ 17:30pm


oops, I meant 200+ MILLION albums ... and still mounting.

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 12.3.08 @ 17:33pm


Enough with all the Madonna talk !!! She's in the RRHOF. Enough said. I don't see the point in steadily arguing about somebody that's already in the Hall. Now Vogue !!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Friday, 12.5.08 @ 09:50am


you mean "En Vogue"? best to go to their page to comment. but they would get consideration only AFTER the Pointer Sisters get it (my opinion), not before.

Posted by benny on Friday, 12.5.08 @ 10:05am


Madonna is a trashy media whore who should be inducted into the shitty music hall of fame.Madonna was created by record labels and MTV she isn't a legitimate artist and the fact that Deep Purple and Rush aren't in the RnR hall of fame and madonna is makes me sick.

Posted by David.H on Saturday, 01.3.09 @ 18:00pm


Madonna is the best artist ever
I listened to all The Beatles songs and others, like MJ, Elvis, Zeppelin, and oh boy, she's so much better than them

Posted by WallPURG on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 19:02pm


Madonna's a friggin legend and genius for her music, you dont need a 5 octaves "diva" voice to be an amazing singer. Madonna has amazing vocals (2-3 octaves, mezzo-soprano),kicks da shit out of the competition.
Madonna's ultimate Queen of Music, she did Pop, Pop Rock, Dance, R'n'B, Hip-Hop, Big Ballads, had even Jazz, Country and Soul influences. Her versatility's unrivalled, knows guitar, percussion, 7 Grammies, 29 nominations
Plus the most amazing and professional entertainer, huge icon etc.
MADONNA'S THE BIGGEST SELLING MOST SUCCESEFUL FEMALE RECORDING ARTIST EVA
200 million albums sold worldwide, 100 milion singles, more than any "rock" band, except for Beatles

Only american artist to have sold over 100 million albums exclusively outside USA (MJ might be there also), making her the biggest export in American music ever

Posted by WallPURG on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 19:09pm




Madonna is the best artist ever
I listened to all The Beatles songs and others, like MJ, Elvis, Zeppelin, and oh boy, she's so much better than them

Posted by WallPURG on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 19:02pm


LOL....

We all have our own personal taste. Seems oodles just love her,,





Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 19:38pm


WallPURG...feel free to not make any more comments...there are websites where you can sing her praises. Heck, you can even go on there and claim she has sold more than a BILLION albums and that she's the second coming of SRV. You can get REAL ridiculous on those sites and nobody will mind!!!!

Mentioning her in the same breath with the Beatles, Elvis, and Zeppelin is just plain revolting...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 20:20pm


she's the second coming of SRV.

That I almost believe LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 20:45pm


THERE'S NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER

Madonna is the only American musician to have sold over 100 million albums exclusively outside USA (together with MJ)
MAdonna has more Top 10 singles than Elvis, Beatles, not to mention Zeppelin
Overall, Madonna's catalogue has way better songs than The Beatles, probably the most overrated boy band of all time

Posted by WallPURG on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 01:07am


Compared to Madonna, The Beatles look like 4 nerd boys from the English countryside and Elvis looks like a refugee boy from the plantations in the southern states of America

Posted by WallPURG on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 01:13am


WallPURG...how old are you? By reading your posts, I'd say about 10! There's no evidence in them that would dictate that she's anywhere close to being in the same league with the aforementioned artists. Try coming up with something intelligent to say...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 07:36am


That could be, Gita- but I think I've provided more than enough intelligent commentary on why Madonna stands as the most important female performer of the last 25 years. :) No one may be in the league of Elvis and The Beatles, but, again, Madge is the most important among females (for not just the music- which HAS enjoyed plenty of acclaim, but what she's done in the medium, via the songs, videos, stage shows, etc.)- fan or not, anyone who cannot see that, well, that's another story.

David H, your comments may be more appropriate for certain other female acts (though even I myself would never use such negative words to insult an act's supposed unworthiness).

Bottom line is that Madonna got into the HOF in her first year of eligibility- was never a chance that the HOF committee would overlook her.

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 08:44am


Madonna being in the same Hall of Fame with Elvis, The Beatles and Led Zeppelin is Revolting!

SpaceTrucker

"Please don't worry, bout no jury, theres so many, of us anyway"
Grand Funk Railroad

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 11:18am


Hmm, so we are back to discussing the Candy Perfume pole dancer girl? Shes already in the Rock museum folks, whats the point?

Cheesecrop, btw, I see you now are #10 in Most Comments, right behind mrxyz who is #9. Good job gents, you have achieved royal commentor status. (smile)

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 12:19pm


WallPURG, you deserve to go in the "Dumbest Comments Ever Hall of Fame"

Posted by Keebord on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 13:00pm


Good Job, Cheesecrop. In honor I ingraved Cheesecrop on a stopsign.

Posted by Mike on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 14:52pm


JR...thank you for your post. I've always thought your comments concerning Madonna were at least rational, and there's a lot of things that constitute being "the most important female artist of the last 25 years"...which, if you add up everything concerning her, it's probably a fact. And, no, you've never mentioned her in the same breath with other legendary artists, whose MUSIC will be talked about for the next 100 years...and beyond. If it comes down to just the music, I think she'll be forgotten about in the near future...unless she plans on bopping on stage singing "Like A Virgin" when she's 75 years old...I think she has to be seen to remain popular.

To me, she's the longest surviving "flash in the pan" that I've ever seen, and I think she's been very fortunate...that is all...!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 17:59pm


You know, there are theoretical physicists who stae that in fact we are sharing space with fully functioning alternate universes, even as we speak. wallPURG could be quite right about all his claims about Madonna. I plan on making friends with wallPURG. He/She ain't gonna' be using any of that Zelda Rubenstein stuff on me!

"Madonna's heerree"

When the rest of you get trapped in your TV's, just remember...

"Stay away from the MTV signal! Go away from it! Go away!"

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:16pm


Cheesie...did my mentioning the prospect of Madonna being on a stage in a leotard singing "Like A Virgin" get to you or something. That is a nasty mental picture isn't it??? And around dinner time of all things...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:23pm


...at 75 years old, I might add...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:25pm


What got me was a science program I saw about a week ago that stated that millions of alternate universes could exist where things were ever so slightly different. Just think of the possibilities...

Madonna could have talent...

I could have talent...

I could be Madonna...

I could be you...

You could be me... heck, anyone could be me!

(As he wrote that last line, he heard a distant rumble. It began to grow louder. Soon he realized he had accidentally started a stampede off the site. He clutched his head in his hands. Once again... he was friendless).

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:31pm


...you could be in a leotard, singing "Like A Virgin"...!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:38pm


...you could be in a leotard, singing "Like A Virgin"...!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:38pm
--------------------------------------------------
As though that hasn't happened already!


He paused...

and began to think about that last line. A quiet hush fell around him as he pondered just how prudent it would be to reveal this piece of information, especially on such a large scale...

And yet again he clutched his head in his hands...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:44pm


Cheesie...you haven't been hanging with mrxyz, have ya????

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:48pm


Cheesie...you haven't been hanging with mrxyz, have ya????

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 18:48pm



WHAT DOES THAT MEAN....? lol

Posted by mrxzy on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 21:24pm


Cheesecrop, I probably shouldnt have mentioned yor prodigious posting total. I hope yor not trying to build on that by making umpteen (weird) posts on the Madonna page. Are you now waxing philosophical about an alternate universe in which there is Madonna who is talented??? (yikes!)

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 02.5.09 @ 07:29am


Paul McCartney about Madonna:

"Her name will always between artists like Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra. Like us, Madonna is the voice of a generation. So I must bend to applaud"

Posted by WallPURg on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 00:35am


Hey WallPurg, let's not forget that Paul McCartney has made a few mistakes in his life: the song "Ebony and Ivory" with Stevie Wonder, his marriage to Heather Mills, and now this "statement" you claim he said regarding Madonna.

P.S. I couldn't help but making on a comment on the fact he mentioned The Beatles, his own band. And what exactly does "Her name will always be between artists like Frank Sinatra" even mean?

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 11:52am


Paul McCartney about Madonna:

"Her name will always [be] [among] artists like Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra. Like us, Madonna is the voice of a generation. So I must bend to applaud"

The comment was made some several years ago, got nothing to do with his present life etc

Posted by wallPURG on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 01:44am


Cheesecrop, I probably shouldnt have mentioned yor prodigious posting total. I hope yor not trying to build on that by making umpteen (weird) posts on the Madonna page. Are you now waxing philosophical about an alternate universe in which there is Madonna who is talented??? (yikes!)

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 02.5.09 @ 07:29am
--------------------------------------------------
Tela - Knew I had posted a lot, but didn't realize just how much till I looked at it. Remember, everyone's total went through the roof during the past three weeks. Our attempt at the consensus list + the return of Liam will do that.

I was trying to stay on the safe side of wallPURG. Admittedly a science show did influence me there, & I let my imagination run merrily amuck for a scant few minutes. I just spotted Gitar on here that night, dropped a silly line or two, he followed up, & we were off and running on some silliness! Nothing to be worried about... I think...

(he stopped and thought closely about this. Suppose he was being watched... through the screen... and everyone on the sight knew who he was... they could see the chiffon floral and the "I LOVE MUDBONE" hat he was wearing... could he take the jibes, or would he sulk off in disgust in the corner, and go back to letting the flies breed on him? He knew what he had to do...)

One fly... two fly...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 17:40pm


Cheeseman...it is imparitive that you listen to this without delay...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

...it's for your own good!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 17:59pm


Cheeseman...it is imparitive that you listen to this without delay...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

...it's for your own good!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 17:59pm
--------------------------------------------------
"Tho..."

Inthinuating that I'm mentally unbalanced, eh' Gitar...

Thuggethting that I might have a few thcrewth's loose, eh' Gitar?


Now just add a Daffy Duck vocal impression to that lisp, & you'll know where I'm coming from!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 18:28pm


The only real controversy in Madonna's career is how can she be such an artist of genius with so little seemingly efort?
Madonna is not only talented, but a genius among her peer artists

Posted by WAALPURG on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 07:04am


Madonna is the embodiment of perfection in pop culture, will always remain the standard for perfection

Posted by WAALPURG on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 07:11am


No, the REAL question is how many desks she had to get on her knees under and how many executive office couches she had to wear out to get anywhere in this business. The true "geniuses" in her career are the MTV executives who took the humpbag and packaged her up like a cabbage patch doll and stuck her on MTV. Otherwise, there would have been no Madonna. I just wish MTV would've come along a little later...it would've given time for her "music" career to totally fizzle.

If you take away all the great producers and musicians who made her sound (and look) good, and all the people who wrote music for her (you really don't think she wrote all that material with her name on it, do you? Money buys just about anything...), she'd be working at a dry cleaners back in Michigan right now...where she actually belongs.

She's number one on the list of biggest "con jobs" in popular music history. Maybe you should've followed her career a little more closely (without the earplugs and blinders), you would've probably heard all of this...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 08:05am


Sorry, people I KNOW she's already in the HOF, there was nothing I could do to stop it. But these people like "wallPURG" get on here and talk about her like she's some sort of "goddess" (which I guess Medusa was at one time, too), and it's enough to make a person BARF!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 08:20am


"She's number one on the list of biggest "con jobs" in popular music history."- ME

I'm sorry...I guess that distinction would have to go to Milli Vanilli. I guess Madonna will have to settle for "number two"...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 08:27am


madonna in - pat benatar not -- thats a joke, rock and roll hall of fame has become boring and full of themselves.

really, change a bit or nobody will care

Posted by golfer on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 09:26am


Buy that golfer a beer...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 09:32am


''Madonna is not only talented,but a genuis among her peer artists'' How can you say that with a straight face WAALPURG?

Posted by S.R on Sunday, 02.8.09 @ 15:43pm


Yap MAdonna is the most talented artist in history. No doubt about it...As I mentioned before, Madonna makes acts like Elvis or Beatles look like retards and amateuers, and this the the only real scandal for for people like Gitarzan

And boy, you don't fool nobody...Elvis didn't write ANY of his songs, MAdonna has actually written and co-written some of her biggest hits

You complain boy about Madonna collaborating with other producers, musicians etc, but this is what all artists have done like in the last 50 years????

They all collaborate, but they all failed to deliver the STANDARD FOR PERFECTION THAT IS MADONNA

Ok boy Gitarzan? You don't fool nobody with your stupid complaints, this and that.

Madonna is easily one of the most talented musicians, performers, icons in history

EASILY. And this is not trying to stand up for something, is just an opinion to remain here so that other people see that many condider MAdonna one of the greatest and think DIFERENTLY compared to people like Gitarzan

Ok Buoy?

Posted by WallPURG on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 07:51am


Gitarzan, you are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine, although is quite the opposite. If you bark louder than me that doesn't make your opinion more valid than mine, never will. I don't care about what you say, Madonna is a genius and has the IT factor more than anyone in the history of popular culture

The only scandal is how an amazing artist like Madonna is possible, becuase she made the inpossible possible.

The only scandal is that Madonna makes ALL the other artists, although some of them very talented, look like amateurs

Posted by WallPURG on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 08:05am


And Gitarzan, your pretentious writings are sooo fake, shallow and full of it. You don't know shite

If you'd be an artist or performer, even a mediocre one, you'd know how hard is to be like Madonna, to breathe her air, you'd know something called humility, you'd find out something that you'll never be: Madonna

You'd realize that even if you'd worked all your life to be at Madonna's level just for one second, you'll never be capable

And this just shows Madonna's natural gift and genius. This is not something that you work for it or enhance it, is something that you're born with, is something that you have it or not

Posted by WallPURG on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 08:21am


I'll admit that: it's so hard to say Madonna's one of the greats, one of the greatest, and you know why, because it's so obvious and so in your face that you don't even say it. To say that Madonna is one of the greatest is an oxymoron, that's why you don't even say it

Posted by WallPURG on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 08:25am


WallPURG - I accept your opinions on the validity of Madonna's career. From a musical standpoint, she is not all that. But she is untouched as a performer and product, and no one can argue that. Although I will repeat myself, if it wasn't for MTV, she never would have reached these heights, I cannot take away her accomplishments. But we can say that about many acts from that time period. She played on a level playing field with her peers and beat them out when it comes to sales an becoming an icon.

But please do me a favor and stop with the comparision to the Beatles or any major act that made their mark before MTV. She has overcome the fragility of stardom, but her influence as a whole is limited to pop/dance music and video production. It has not crossed over to other genres.

Gitar - I respect your opinion and dislike for Madonna as an artist, but we cannot use the term whore when it comes to her and the marketing of her music. In fact, it is the opposite. The Pop industry whored itself out to her if only to get a piece of the $ pie which was Madonna.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 08:33am


to be like Madonna, to breathe her air, you'd know something called humility, you'd find out something that you'll never be: Madonna... - WallPURGE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Madonna is a genius and has the IT factor more than anyone in the history of popular culture... - WallPURGE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gitar - I respect your opinion and dislike for Madonna as an artist, but we cannot use the term whore when it comes to her... - Dameon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
WallPURGE, you make me want to purge. The superlatives you use to describe Madonna - what a joke! "IT" factor? Please define what IT is for all the neophytes who don't know. Is it something you feel between your legs or between your ears? Dameon, (my opinion) you CAN use the term "whore" as a metaphor when discussing Madonna. But, if you object to the term whore, how about harlot instead?

Posted by Worm on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 13:56pm


Worm - I agree with you and was not discounting the meaning of the term. But I have to wonder as to who the real whore was/is? I think the true whores were the media and record labels who I think were willing to crawl under the table to get a piece of her action.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 15:47pm


wallPURG -

She had "IT"? You know, back in the 20's Clara Bow was the "IT" girl... does this technically mean you are comparing Madonna to Clara Bow? (lol)


There is one thing you did write about her that I must take exception to. This is the fact that you sang her praises while condemning Elvis for not writing his own material. Just remember, many acts of that time did not write their own material. In some cases I don't blame them, considering the songwriting talent being used by these singers. Sinatra was doing Cole Porter, George & Ira Gershwin, Richard Rogers, Irving Berlin, Lorenz Hart, Oscar Hammerstein, etc. It wasn't an issue then, so when Elivs took Otis Blackwell's music (he being in many cases a blues equivalent of the pop gents I mnetioned), it was still accepted.




Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 17:51pm


(after an extended fit of laughter...) Dameon, I agree with what you say to a degree, but I think during the course of her career, there's been a lot of give and take whoring between her and the powers-that-be, wouldn't you agree?

As for you, WallPURG...I can honestly say I've never felt "humbled" by anything concerning Madonna. Now, she might seem like a "genius" to you, but I tend to be a little more frugal on how I use that particular word. What exactly has she done that would convince anyone but you (and a few other "chosen ones" that have graced this site) that she's a genius? I also have half way intelligent and learned conversations about a number of artists on this site...whereas you seem to have difficulty doing that with one. Where do you come up with this stuff, anyway? The "IT" factor??? Are you talking about "Cousin Itt"??? You really do a cute-rate job explaining yourself...there's no substance in what you say at all...you just ramble.

Madonna is good at one thing...promoting Madonna. She never met a camera she didn't like (unless she was trying to be an actress), and is more widely known for the controversy she creates than for her music...which is not up to par with any of the true legendary artists. On this latest tour, she was just a 50 year old woman trying to be Madonna 25 years ago...and the novelty is starting to fade.

Who knows, if her "career" fizzles, she can always try marriage counseling...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 18:00pm


Oh, and I think I'm qualified to say that I'm a much better guitar player than she is. Of course, I probably was when I was about, I don't know....12??? I guess I wouldn't mind having that black Les Paul Custom she's always holding (you notice I didn't say "playing"), though...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 18:33pm


... let's not forget that Paul McCartney has made a few mistakes in his life: the song "Ebony and Ivory" with Stevie Wonder, his marriage to Heather Mills, and now this "statement" you claim he said regarding Madonna. - Keebord
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Keebord, I take issue w/ you on that statement. So many intelligentia(?) have criticized McCartney for his simplistic "saccharine" songs - he even wrote a song about that, "Just Another Silly Love Song" which became a hit song. "Ebony and Ivory" was a huge hit song. Who cares what dummass magazines like Blender say. Blender is more brainless than anything McCarthy ever sang.

Posted by Worm on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 18:37pm


Wow you guys are tooooooooooooooooooooooooo
funny LOL Gee Madonna huh....? lol




What ever.. carry on ???

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 02.9.09 @ 22:36pm


Madonna is good at one thing...promoting Madonna

No she isn't, she remains one of worst promoters in terms of music


If she weren't so sexual driven (Sex Book, Body Of Evidence etc) she would have enjoyed way more success, because her over the top sexuality (especially in the early 90's)always caused controversy, bad press, bad image, offrnded even her fans and their confidence in her etc

Her Erotica album remains one of her lowest selling albums, she alienated many of her own fans and alienated potential future successes for years. If it had been another artist, she would have been over, for good

If she wouldn't have been so sexual, with such a big mouth and played it safe, by the rules, she would have been even more successful, commercially and also people would have turn their attention more to her music, that amazing music and performances, without being judgemental. But provoking was a part of her, I guess, it had to be that way, geniuses are known to have tragic flaws...

When she had those naked horrible pics, made years ago in the late 70s, published in Playboy immediately after her huge break with Like A Virgin, without her consent,

of course people and critics were saying she was over. Her status was compromised, her future in music uncertain, they were all thinking she's over, she had became a national shame.

Still with the help of her devoted fans and new generations that came to support her unique talent she still managed to succeed in showing who is the best pop artist in history, establishing the standard for perfection in pop history, a standard that most of the top artists can only dream of
In the process she also became the biggest selling female artist of all times, also the only American artist to have sold over 100.000.000 million albums outside US

Despite those pictures in 1985 that lowered enormously her future sales and took away much if not all potential critical acclaim, despite her self imposed contrversies- Like A Prayer video, Sex era etc, the only thing that remained untouched and helped her to survive was her huge talent as an artist

Posted by Wallpurg on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 08:44am


You are kidding right - the publicity she received for her antics back then gained her page 6 notoriety which is as big as it gets. She alienated no one. I gave you the benefit of the doubt after the last comment; all you are doing now is flaming. Erotica was one of her lowest selling albums because it basically sucked. And if she did scare a few fans off, they were waiting in the wings to accept her again in a heartbeat.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 09:18am


Suggesting, playing the sexual card sell, but showing off not. Nobody wants BAD publicity, nobody. Big artists don't do that, she was was the only one to "afford" that, but she paid for it, commercially. Artistically, the album was brilliant. The Sex era remains the most threating era to the Madonna brand, all adviced her to not publish the book, to not make those movies, still she did them, she was trying to make a point, but comercially she paid for it, as expected

You just can't show off your sexual fantasies to the whole world, engage in bi sexual activities and still want to sell music/records, no matter if you are the biggest star in the world, no matter how good ur album is

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SELL MUSIC, SMILE, BE NICE, BE A A SELL OUT AND ALL WILL GO FOR IT

Posted by Wallpurg on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 10:15am


Wallpurg - my hats off to you. Go pray at the church of Madonna; suckle at her breast and declare her High Priestess. I am going to go listen to The Supremes now. At least they sang in tune.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 10:41am


Wallpurg (or WallPURGE, whatever?), if you are indeed not "Karlah" you are just like her. You are like two boobs in the same bustier, to mangle a phrase.

You say:
"You just can't show off your sexual fantasies to the whole world, engage in bi sexual activities and still want to sell music/records, no matter if you are the biggest star in the world, no matter how good ur album is."
But I say that's NOT true. There will always be fans (such as yourself?) who are drawn to that behavior. Do you deny this? It is the stuff that sells tabloids and it is the same stuff which Madonna lovers have always thrived on - since "Like A Virgin." Call it cutting edge, avante gard, etc. Some people just call it shock (or schlock). I listen to her Ray of Light CD sometimes. Don't feel a need to idolize her. She's a skank who made a few half-way decent dance tunes. Get real.

Posted by Worm on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 12:20pm


Gotta love an artist who inspires such debate- even after all the acclaim for herself as an artist and her music- and even after becoming a RNR HOF inductee.

What I'll never comprehend is the need for someone to resort to using terms like "skank," "whore," etc. and other negatives- if you don't like an act or the music, there are more constructive ways to express it. Like she said, she may have dressed a certain way, done things, but it was all i nthe conext of something bigger- she didn't dress like a streetwalker just to dress like that (which is what other female acts do, that don't have a point of view about much of anything in their work).

Gita, I doubt Madonna will be forgotten anytime in the future. Whenever there are best-of, greatest-type features, she's going to feature often enough.

I always was a fan of the music, but what also drew me to was what she was doing in her work. She used music (which was fine enough), and in turn, videos and stage shows, as a means to something bigger, to put things like gender, racial, religious, sexual and social mores in our faces and make us think how we felt about this or that.

It's fine if someone isn't a Madonna fan, but there's something a little off when someone can't just say, "Ok, I acknowledge how important she is, that her music has received a fair share of acclaim, but it's just not my cup of tea." That is fine- and far more effective than slurring such negatives. Just my point of view about it. :)

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 13:20pm


Well JR, you are very rational and logical in your comments. And it's nice to know Madonna always does things "in the context of something bigger" as you say. Still doesn't change that she's a skank. And frankly, I think shes comfortable with that, since it is her onstage (and my opinion offstage) persona. She is certainly not going for the 'girl next door' image. Slurring negatives is just a counter-balance to all the wonks who profess her to be a pillar of virtue. Is she saving the world? Is her religious piety for real? I could care less.

Posted by Worm on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 17:25pm


wallPURG -

Gotta say I love all these posts on Madonna here. I want to know... I have to know... what's going on in your universe?!?! JUST HOW MANY DRUGS HAVE YOU CONSUMED TO CREATE THE UNIVERSE YOU'RE DESCRIBING!!!!!

I'll tell ya, I don't really believe a word your saying about Madge, but at this point I'm not worried anymore. I'm just having fun roaming around the world you've created here.

Gotta say... YOU DA MAN!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 18:05pm


Cheesie...I was wondering if the "alternate universe" theory was in effect here. I wish my alternate self who wins the biggest Powerball jackpot in history would come over to this side (the GUITARS I would buy)...LOL!!!!

Also, has anyone noticed that the anti-Madonna comments are usually the most rational...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 02.11.09 @ 19:34pm


"Also, has anyone noticed that the anti-Madonna comments are usually the most rational...???"

If by rational, you mean ridiculously sexist.

I see her being slagged on here as being a ho and a skank and blahdiblah, and how she's only good at self-promotion, which is a bad joke. Elvis was overtly sexual too, and he probably had way more sex than Madonna and never pretended otherwise. More importantly, Madonna had far, far more input on her music than did Elvis, who never wrote a lyric in his life (and that goes the same for the Supremes). What exactly can you accuse Madonna of that you can't also accuse of the King?

Posted by MBI on Thursday, 02.12.09 @ 05:48am


She was not as good as a singer as Elvis!

Just thought I would throw that out there.

Oh wait - Elvis was almost 30 years ahead of her. I almost forgot about that.

But I do agree, labeling Madonna some kind of whore is unfair. If there is one thing about Madonna, it is that she is probably the most savy of business women or men that I have ever seen in the entertainment industry. The lady is smart and there is no denying that. She understood exactly what her audience wanted and gave it to them.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 02.12.09 @ 05:55am


Madonna is the best artist ever

Posted by Wallpurg on Thursday, 02.19.09 @ 17:41pm


Put a lid on it, Wallpurg. Haven't you taken enough of a beating on here? Can't you talk about anyone else?

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 02.19.09 @ 17:46pm


Put a lid on it, Wallpurg. Haven't you taken enough of a beating on here? Can't you talk about anyone else?

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 02.19.09 @ 17:46pm
--------------------------------------------------
I'd rather hear wallPURG go on about Madonna than these stupid NKOTB & Backstreet comments. The mighty wall gives you something to speculate on, namely just how much of the brown acid he swiped from Woodstock. The teenyboppers have nothing beyond ra-ra cheering.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 02.19.09 @ 19:34pm


Good point...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 02.19.09 @ 19:37pm


Why is she a great artist? She revolutionized music videos in the 1980's, she brought an acceptance to female musicians being sexual, she did her own thing along that that nobody will ever touch. She's the highest selling female artistsin the world, with over 300 million albums and singles sold, making her the 3rd biggest selling music act in history behind Beatles and Elvis,
she's also the 2nd most certified albums sold in the US by any female only behind Barbra Streisand.

She has the most # 1 songs in the UK for a solo female artist (13). She has the most Top 10 hits in the US by anyone (solo or group)-37, also 12 #1 songs; 2nd most Gold certified singles in the US only behind Elvis Presley and even more than the Beatles. She's had the longest string of having a song on the US Billboard Hot 100 every year from 1983-2006, the longest consecutive run by any artist ever! In 1985, the 'Like A Virgin' album was the first album ever by a solo female artist to sell more than 5 million copies in the US (now it's sold over 10 million in the US). 'The Immaculate Collection' is the highest selling greatest hits album ever by any female artist, approaching 30 million copies sold.

'Hung Up' is a world record breaker for going # 1 in more countries than any other song ever & also a world record breaker as the world's highest selling dance single. She's a legend, she's been breaking records her entire career and continues. Her recent Sticky and Sweet tour became the biggest grossing tour for a solo artist ever.

On the more artistic side, aside from the record breakers - her music is ecclectic and diverse. She's done bubblegum pop, dance, techno & trance, pop-rock, R'n'B, ballads, some rock,Jazz and country also, even some accoustic and more folksy stuff (on Music & American Life albums), and even attempts at rap and hip hop. She's done every style of music imaginable and pioneered many new sounds and techniques. Throughout the 80's and 90's she created the musical trends, she didn't follow them, when she did she made 'em her own, and in the process better.
Madonna is the only American music act to have sold over 100 million albums outside US, also the only American artist to have sold over 150 million records (albums & singles),outside US (only M. Jackson may have achieved that too, but I'm not sure it)
Uhhh, that's all I got for now...

Posted by Wallpurg on Friday, 02.20.09 @ 10:40am


Walpurg - I give you everything you said except one:

She's done every style of music imaginable and pioneered many new sounds and techniques. (WP)

Name two techniques or sounds that she has pioneered? If you cannot name two, then give me one. And of course, please back it up. If you cannot, - please end your long diatribes on the greatness of Madge. She is in the Hall and she is not in any danger of being removed.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 02.20.09 @ 11:57am


From that point on (I'm still pretty surprised why many Madonna fans don't fathom the huge blow given to her musical career when those horrible naked pictures of her went public in 1985, without her consent- Playboy), Madonna's commercial succes, especialy in US but not only there, took the shape of that turtle from that animated cartoon when he races against the rabbit/ Bugs Bunny if I'm not mistaken.

Because of the public shame/disgrace, her sales were diminuished big time, but I guess, like that turtle, she somehow managed to survive, but only based on the pure quality of her performance.
Staring in all those movies (dont matter if bad or not) also didn't help at all her music career, it took away a lot of the distance, iconic status (just like in Elvis's case), after that it all got worse and downhill (it looks in retrospective like she did everything in her power to kill her music career and commercial success, to ruin as much as possible her public persona):
- Like A Prayer controversy
-Truth or Dare controversy
-Erotica era controversy
-American Life controversy

People say she knew how to promote her music???? It's such bull, she was the worst possible marketeer of her music product. She didn't cause any "controversies", such a clishe used in her case, but what she caused was hatred towards her, and it's like she wanted that (her controversies were an euphemism used for the real hatred that she sparkled against her). But it wasn't only her fault that's for sure

If Michael Jackson would have had pictures of him naked published all over the US and around the world during let's say Thriller era, the album wouldn't have stayed more than 10 weeks at number 1

In Madonna's case, much of all her career was centered I guess around the question: How much would I have been/be bigger/more successful if this or that didn't happen. Coz even in the 80's, not to mention the 90's, even with all her big music successes, there were many artists that were outselling her and that even though the quality of their music/ product were never a match for her's, but only by having a "clean" image

The only thing that helped Madonna survived was her unheared of, I guess, consistency(25 years), in delivering some of the greatest music/product, from an artistically point of view.

So contrarily to the cliche opinions about her being commercial or relying on the shock factor (which is good for quick sales, but it doesn't really lasts, as she ultimately did), it's actually only her pure artistic genius that kept her on top, made her last and also helped her leave behind a legacy. Still, even with all her artistic brilliance, her commercial music success has always been forced to take the shape of the slow turtle walk in the competition with the rabbit Bugs Bunny, most of the times by her own doings (inflicted by herself bad publicity against her, which among the mainstream is unheared of, she's like a case, a unique case), sometimes not (like the 1985 Playboy pictorial with her naked pics from 1979, when she was not famous and grossly unshaved, which was made public against her will)

Posted by Wallpurg on Friday, 02.20.09 @ 16:24pm


To assume that Madonna's "immense talent" got her through the controversy is totally ridiculous...it's quite the opposite. She was fortunate to have the controversy...her musical "talent" alone wouldn't have made for a very long career. She thrived on the controversy, and it wasn't long before people paid more attention to what she'd say or do next than her music. In the beginning, EVERYONE'S videos were innovative, because the medium was brand new. With Madonna, MTV had a "pretty face" they could show with regular rotation. In the early 80's, you didn't hear "did you hear that new Madonna song"...it was more like "did you see her new video.

Madonna's music never created controversy, it's what she said or did in front of a camera that made it, and don't think for a minute that most of it wasn't planned.

Do you really think those nude photos of her was an "accident"....??? Playboy doesn't usually make mistakes like that without osme sort of consent.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 02.20.09 @ 18:41pm


(it looks in retrospective like she did everything in her power to kill her music career and commercial success, to ruin as much as possible her public persona):

Posted by Wallpurg on Friday, 02.20.09 @ 16:24pm
--------------------------------------------------
Gotta jump in here for a second. If anything she did little to sabotage her career. UI am drawn to the case of the Nirvana album "In Utero" back in 1993. Sabotaging your career would be to deliberately alter your music in regards to your previous commercial success in order to blunt whatever momentum you had going. When Nirvana delivered that album to Geffen records, the label termed the album unreleasable.

This term has never been associated w/any of Madonna's music.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 09:29am


WP - he threw another stupid diatribe at us but did not answer my question about the music she pioneered. So much for her being innovative musically.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 09:37am


And it still goes on. :)

Regarding the music, Madonna ushered in a new era for female dance-pop (like her male coutnerpart, Michael Jackson). After that debut album, how many soundalikes did we see and hear? Plenty. Of course, as "ordinary" as Madonna's voice was, none of the wanna-be's were as strong or longlasting or successful. Even though she's made stronger albums, there's no denying that the debut was the most influential of the lot.

Ray of Light could be considered an innovative album- a msintream/pop act successfully weaving the pop and techno (or electronica, depending on who's classifying) worlds.

Also, I'm not the biggest fan of the Erotica album, but some of music did seem to be ahead of its time (the tracks she did with Andre Betts, not Shep Pettibone).

What all this comes down to is that for female acts, Madonna has been the most important and biggest act of the last 25 years- having the right combination of acclaim, impact, influence and success- again, it was a no-brainer that she'd get into the HOF. It was rather impressive that she did it in her first year of eligibility.

ANyone who wants to argue that it's more about image than substance- have at it. That doesn't change the perception and widespread acknowledgment (and that's really all we can argue, since everyone will have their individual tastes) that she has been the most important female musical artist and entertainer since her debut, and one of the most important of all time.

(BTW, Gitar- Madge once said that a record exec once wanted her to give him a BJ, but she refused. After all, the story of her signing is legendary- Seymour Stein was very ill on a hospital bed, and she was there, pen in hand for him to sign her. haha Sleopt her way to the top/ Probably not. Highly ambitious (at the time) and perhaps putting herself first above any one else? No doubt.)

Now, carry on... :)

Posted by JR on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 11:33am


She pioneered perfect pop music. Perfectly executed: music, video, live performance, she had it all, all the package.

She pioneered like no other among female artist before diversity, reinventing the music and the image, but more importantly, keeping during this process the highest levels of music excellence

A song like Like A Prayer is one of the best ever written and sung. Powerful voice, surprised everybody, but didn't get, of course, no mainstream recognition- e.g. Grammies, because of the huge scandal that the video created. It was all put in an artistic frame, but hey, let's make a "scandal" out of it

There's no other woman to have done the vast number of the brilliant pop-rock tracks and ballads that she did. From an artistic point of view she is unique- the standard for perfection in pop music, from a commercial point of view-she still remains the world's biggest seling female in music history

From a rock n roll point of view, her sexuality was not cheap flaunting, but at its peak a form of rebeliousness equalling an artistic, even political statement, which again, is very rare, if not unique among mainstream female (and male) singers. Keeping artistic integrity was everything to her, she sacrificed commercial success to make her point of view heared. Erotica / American albums= controversy, but were her lowest selling ww
True Blue, The Immaculate Collection, Ray of Light, Music albums--no controversy, they all sold over 20 and 10 million worlwide

Madonna rules, end of it

Posted by Wallpurg on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 14:32pm


"Keeping artistic integrity was everything to her, she sacrificed commercial success to make her point of view heared."

Baloney...commercial success means EVERYTHING to Madonna, and she seriously thought people would buy into the whole "Sex/Erotica" thing because, hey, she's Madonna!!!

Ya know, most of the crap you spew you make up, and the question still remains...can you have any sort of rational and informative conversations about any other artist, or do you just spend all of your time worshipping at the (porcelain) altar of Madonna? Like most people who come on here and get stuck on one artist, I'd say probably not.

As for Madonna, as Dameon put it she's in the HoF and is in no danger of being expelled. For my part, it was strictly a popularity induction, with no substance as to what a true Rock & Roll Hall of Famer should represent. If you look strictly at her body of work musically and nothing else, it's mediocre at best. It's been stated here on numerous occasions that without MTV, her "music" could've been catagorized as cut-rate disco, and she would've faded rather quickly, but we'll never know that for sure. It's no surprise to anyone here that she's one of a very few list of artists who carries no relevance to me at all (or anyone I know, for that matter), and as much as I've been involved in popular culture (particularly music)over the last 40+ years, that says a lot!

As for you, if you can't have a conversation about anyone else, you should seriously consider hanging around her fan-based website...I'm sure there's people there who will agree with you.

As mrxyz would so eloquently put it...she's "HOLLYWOOD HYPE". Now, since I can't express anymore how much of a dud I think she is, I think I'll leave the Madonna page alone for now. Also...to JR...thanks for at least presenting your thoughts in a more rational way.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 15:06pm


True, Madonna's up there, as has been said, with The Beatles, Elvis and Michael Jackson. She'll be remembered as a legend, an artist, a pioneer, a vamp, a great performer, an icon, one of the greatest musicians

Technical vocal acrobatics a la Carey, you can programme a computer to do that

To sing a song from the heart with real emotion is more important to me, this is Madonna's talent.

Posted by Wallpurg on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 15:11pm


"She pioneered perfect pop music."--Wall

Perfect by whose standards? Certainly not mine. The first song I ever remember hearing that I did NOT like was "Justify My Love." And she didn't pioneer pop music, either, really. JR says she ushered a new era of female dance-pop. I myself am a bit more equal opportunity. Dance-pop is dance-pop regardless of the gender of those who pioneered it. And dance-pop as we knew it was pioneered more by Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Prince, the Pet Shop Boys, and (and I can't believe I'm actually giving credit to these guys) the vocally emotionless/robotic British-synth pop and new wave artists of the early 80's. "I Melt With You" has done about as much influencing as "Cherish The Love."

All of which means nothing, for the Hall states that it looks for those whose contributions were germane to the perpetuation of "Rock (and roll) music." Who from the echelons of rock music have actually drawn influence from Madonna, or have departed from a point that she pioneered? That is the question that must be answered. THAT is where the ballgame really is.

"Perfectly executed: music, video, live performance, she had it all, all the package."

Video and live performance are virtually irrelevant. All that really matters is the music.

All that, I still said and still say that Madonna deserved her induction. But Wall, you're just not speaking the language, really.

"Technical vocal acrobatics a la Carey, you can programme a computer to do that."

You can also program a computer to do pretty much what Madonna did. And they did a lot of times. The computerization of her voice you hear on songs like "Ray Of Light", those production techniques... all production magic.

"To sing a song from the heart with real emotion is more important to me, this is Madonna's talent."

The only "emotion" that I hear in Madonna's music is sexual drive. And the heart is not the location where you sing that from. It's not even an emotion as much as it is a biological imperative either.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 22:38pm


"Who from the echelons of rock music have actually drawn influence from Madonna, or have departed from a point that she pioneered?"

Just off the top of my head, both Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and Alanis Morissette have cited Madonna as an influence.

"Video and live performance are virtually irrelevant. All that really matters is the music."

Live performance is virtually irrelevant? Do you seriously want to go on record with that statement?

I'd say that Madonna's innovation is not in any pioneering any new kinds of music as pioneering new attitudes.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 02.22.09 @ 19:42pm


Just off the top of my head, both Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and Alanis Morissette have cited Madonna as an influence.

"Video and live performance are virtually irrelevant. All that really matters is the music."

Live performance is virtually irrelevant? Do you seriously want to go on record with that statement?

I'd say that Madonna's innovation is not in any pioneering any new kinds of music as pioneering new attitudes.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 02.22.09 @ 19:42pm


She is so good know one can come close.. She free's more souls that 1000 years of Popes. so some believe.. SHE IS THE "MUSIC GODDESS"
Listen to her she known the truth and is here to help save us ALL

Posted by guitarman on Sunday, 02.22.09 @ 19:47pm


"Just off the top of my head, both Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and Alanis Morissette have cited Madonna as an influence."--MBI

If Alanis Morissette cited me as an influence, I'd commit suicide. She is truly annoying.

"Live performance is virtually irrelevant? Do you seriously want to go on record with that statement?"--MBI

Live performance is the means by which we find out if an artist and their music is any good. The only current inductee (besides Madge) that you could say got in as much for their ability to perform live as for the music is the Grateful Dead. And let's face it, their music was something pretty special too. Look at other bands who put on incredible live performances and/or pioneered new things in live performance that are not in: KISS, Alice Cooper, Rush... those are the big three off the top of my head.

Live performance is the means by which we find out an artist's true mettle. But in the end, the music is paramount.

"I'd say that Madonna's innovation is not in any pioneering any new kinds of music as pioneering new attitudes."--MBI

Maybe, but the best innovators in rock'n'roll are those whose innovations in music innovated new attitudes.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 02.25.09 @ 15:56pm


I reckson Madonna is the best (pop) artist ever, the best performer and has one of the most amazing and energetic voices in (pop)history, but what I don't like about Madonna is that her sexy body can make a man go crazy! She's too sexy and I don't like that!

Posted by Berta on Thursday, 02.26.09 @ 12:39pm


That last comment had to've been a joke...right?

Posted by Jonny on Thursday, 02.26.09 @ 20:45pm


Madonna is the best artist ever! No chance for others! Peace

Posted by Bono M on Friday, 02.27.09 @ 20:28pm


Oy, I luv Madonna!
She desearved to be in Rock Hall more than anybody else!

Word

Posted by Bewenstein on Saturday, 02.28.09 @ 12:37pm


Its been about a year since I've posted on here. I actually kind of miss the conflict. Here are some additional thoughts a year later:

Madonna is not a "genius", "godess", or any other opinionated title that you can make up. She is a successful, talented, and controversal person, who deserves recognition. You fans/worshipers are doing nothing by posting opinions with no supporting facts, which I have done in the previous postings.

That being said, she should definitely be in the Hall because:

1)RIAA reports her to be the greatest selling female ROCK artist of the 20th century (you can verify on wikipedia, if you like).

2) Rolling Stone, VH1, and MTV have awarded her various titles and ranks along with other infuential and successful rock artist. Most of these lists and articles are made by rock music historians and other prominent artists.

3) Her albums/songs are also consistently ranked on many "greatest" and "best of" lists, which are also compiled by rock music historians and other prominent artists.

4) Her originality seems unquestionable. Has anyone ever confused her with another artist, on the radio (e.g. Cold Play and U2).

5) She actually does write or co-write her own music, making her a songwriter. This is not to say that she does not rely heavily on collaboraters to come up with new music (chords, riffs, sampling, etc). But, its easy to believe that without Madonna, these songs would be nothing. William Orbit, Patirick Leonard, and crew are hardly Top Ten on any list.

6) MTV is not completely responsible for her success. As I pointed out, in previous postings, other artists were just as prominent during the commercial zenith of MTV: The Bangles, The Bugles, Cindy Lauper, Tiffany, Paula Abdule, etc. None have made it nearly as far in the recording industry.

7) Finally, for those of you who can't accept her as a rock artist keep two things in mind: the term "pop music" is farely new, before that it was "pop rock" or "adult contemporary"; secondly, if you read the very top of this page, one does not have be a "rock" artist to be inducted into the Hall. Did people complain this much about Aretha (soul, r and b), Joni Mitchell (folk), MJ (pop), Johnny Cash (mostly country).

See, if you back up your postion with facts, you can make a sound argument. It should be noted that I posted most of these points last year, and the only response I got was someting like "you're not going to convince me to like her, its my opinion, so stop trying"-stop trying what, to present an argument on the subject of this board, which makes sense? That does not sound to rational to me.

Thanks for reading everyone. I may check back in the future to see the Great Debate.

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.2.09 @ 16:10pm


Nice post, Jake. I am a big fan of the woman, but I always try to post what are facts, or at least perceptions of how she's viewed as an artist, and your post supports things I try to convey to others.

I've unveiled Madonna (unsurprisingly) as my Favorite Female Musicla Act at my blog (www.entertainmentdissected.today.com). Take a gander, let me know what you think. :)

Posted by JR on Monday, 03.2.09 @ 20:01pm


@Jake

Yes you are very right in your post, but what really makes Madonna special and unique not only in the history of music is that she has been a genius and a goddess

Posted by Pepinho The Fourth on Tuesday, 03.3.09 @ 08:17am


Pepinho's moronic comment came just after Gitarzan stated the following: "One phrase you need to learn about this site...either give your opinion or substatiate what you say with FACT!"

"she has been a genius and a goddess"

Sure, whatever you say.

Posted by Keebord on Tuesday, 03.3.09 @ 12:08pm


Jake - I may not totally agree w/everything you said about Madonna, but you did touch on a few things I never thought about. Why limit yourself to posting for a little while & then waiting a year? Stick around.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 03.3.09 @ 16:32pm


Impossible
to substantiate Madonna, who is the substance itself
Madonna Genius Goddess Myth

Posted by Pepinho The Fourth on Wednesday, 03.4.09 @ 07:02am


she's a legend

Posted by kelly on Monday, 03.9.09 @ 20:58pm


Hey guys,

Thanks for the positive responses. Cheesecrop, I really can't think of anything else to add to the argument, except for maybe the following factoid:

Did you that in the original version of Like a Prayer, two electric guitars are used. One was played by Prince and the other by Randy Jackson (American Idol), its in the song's wikipedia article. Although Madonna does not play a guitar, it is atleast included in the song, and she did co-write it with Patrick Leonard. FYI- its one of, if not her best song (in my opinion).

I'll try to checkin with this board more often, I just got tired of dealing with irrational people, who can't back up their argument with facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the Hall is not about opinions, its the influence, morphology and transcendance of rock music.

Rock on guys!!!

Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 17:02pm


I wouldn't take everything Wikipedia says as hardcore fact. There still hasn't been one person give any solid evidence of innovation or influence. I will however, give her props on perpetuation, though. The thing that irritates me more than anything are the posts that describe her as a "goddess", "myth", etc...!!!

She's been very fortunate. Her music career really wasn't going anywhere until MTV...that's a fact. She's a "visual" artist, if you will, not a great musician by any stretch of the word. She's not an artist who can just stand in front of an audience and make music and mesmerize them. It takes a truly great musician to do that to an audience without the "Vegas show-song & dance" bit. She's also had great producers. I remember Nile Rodgers producing "Like A Virgin", but that album got it's shot in the arm with the rather risque live performance she did on...MTV! She owes MTV a great deal of gratitude.

Yes, she's been a phenom. I will however, stick to my guns and say that the provocative visual aspect of her performance has been far and away the most important...without it, she probably wouldn't have made it (although we'll never know, I guess). As for the Hall of Fame, yes, she's in there, but no one will ever convince me that it should've happened. Not before a lot of artists who were far more deserving...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 17:52pm


Gitar -

I'm w/you on a lot of this, but I feel I have to say one thing. You never had the chance to experience MTV the way a younger generation saw it. There is a book on metal by an author named David Konow. I'm forgetting the title of the book, even though I've read it more than once.

Anyway, in one chapter he goes on to describe how GNR broke through MTV's resistance. They were programmed for a single weekend, w/ the "Welcome to the Jungle" video airing at around 12:00 AM, 1:00 AM, & 6:30 AM. MTV has always claimed that the phone lines went crazy.

Think about it for a second. They broke through based on being aired 3 times, at 3 of the worst possible time slots. It gives you a clue as to how deep the feelings were & how impressive the aura was around MTV in 1987. It tells you just how vital a younger generation perceived it to be (& I definitely know about that).

I still agree w/you on Madonna, but I'll admit I've never completely bought into the "bash MTV" end of it.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 18:04pm


Don't get me wrong, I'm not "bashing" MTV (I was 25 when it popped up). I do think it added a new dimension into what could "make or break" an artist. A lot of the "old guard" at the time HATED the prospect of having to do a "video" to promote their music, while others ate it up. In it's real heyday, let's face it...you heard more about an artist's video than you did their songs..."video killed the radio star".

I think a lot of stars were created then that normally might not have gotten a second notice otherwise...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 18:17pm


OK, I'm back already...

JR - nice web page, nice message, and a nice thing to do.

Gitarzan - you like many others, apparently did not read my other posting in detail...MTV and Madonna, point #6. If you really think she is all fluff and little talent, explain why it that other artist of the MTV era have not accomplished nearly as much as she has. They had an even playing field, the support of their respective fans, etc. Essentially you equating her to musical theater. Madonna has far surpassed anything broadway has done(as far as individual accomplishments go). You're just getting caught up in the glitter and fashion that she constructs her stage presents from. Why do you people only use this tired "MTV created Madonna" argument. I've noticed you apparently have nothing to say of my other points. FYI- why would wikipedia be wrong about the Like a Prayer fact? and Madonna's article is edit-protected.

Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 20:54pm


explain why it that other artist of the MTV era have not accomplished nearly as much as she has. They had an even playing field, the support of their respective fans, etc. Essentially you equating her to musical theater. Madonna has far surpassed anything broadway has done(as far as individual accomplishments go). You're just getting caught up in the glitter and fashion that she constructs her stage presents from. Why do you people only use this tired "MTV created Madonna" argument. I've noticed you apparently have nothing to say of my other points. FYI- why would wikipedia be wrong about the Like a Prayer fact? and Madonna's article is edit-protected.Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 20:54pm



Sheep and cows love tHe watering hole It is like a burger stand If a lot people are the more come..
Anyone that watches MTV A for any lenght of time {unless they get paid} are hollywood hyped... THERE IS NOTHING MAGICAL ABOUT HER OTHER THAN THE "PR MACHINE" THAT DRIVES IT...
If you like her try Barbra Streisand or Liza Minnelli
only they can really sing..

She Like many "stars" are just that...
There is little I can say to you other than "LOVE YOUR IDOL" ...AND ENJOY THE SHOW,,, YOU MAY ALSO FIND cnn, nbc, cbs ,abc ..ETC news INFORMING...
As for me I woud much raher hear Bach. Mose Alison ,Muddy Waters..Link Wray,Joan Baez,Marly, Dylan, Surfaris , Beach Boys, Donavon, Cohen,Little Richard,Buffy Sainte-Marie,Them , Kingsmen, Beatles ,Stones,Hendrix, Fats,Cold Play,Sammy Davis Jr, Elvis,Judy Collins,Willie Nelson,Kinks, James Brown, Temptations, Ricky Nelson,Patsy Cline,Traffic, Zappa,Chet Akins,
Billie Holiday,Earth Wind and Fire,Nate King Cole. Sam Cook,Ray Charles ,Staple Singer, The Band, Nirvana, The Animals,Grass Roots, Annette,
Peggy Lee, Ronettes ,Artetha Franklin Janice Joplin, The Carpenters,Jackie DeShannon, Leon Russle], Dr John,The Chiffons,Dolly Parton,Tiny Tim ,Do Ho,T. Rex,Tom Jones ,Love, Spirit, Frank Sinatra,Sonny Boy Williamson,Carole King,The Shirelles,Nancy Sinatra,Aretha Franklin,Led Zeppelin,Simon and Garfunkel,The Who,Charlie Christian,Louis Armstrong,The Coasters,Roy Orbison,Etta James,Bobby Darin,Blink 182,Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry,Otis Redding,Steely Dan,Blondie,Brenda Lee,Duane Eddy, Dion DiMucci,The Association,The Monkees,
The Bee Gees a host of others.





Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 03.10.09 @ 21:56pm


What stirred all the controversy and publicity about the song "Like A Prayer"...the song...or the VIDEO????? My girlfriend recently attended a Madonna concert in Denver, and when I asked her how it was, she said "It was okay, if you like paying that much to watch someone work out and lip-synch.", which about sums up Madonna.

I guess she'll always have some of the public fooled...!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 03.11.09 @ 07:24am


Gitarzan,

You have just verified what I stated early...you can only state opinions, constantly! Apparently, you can't construct a logical argument, with supporting facts, to articulate your reason against her induction. See, Cheesecrop, this is why I left this board, and why I am doing so right now. Bye guys, rock on!!

Posted by Jake on Wednesday, 03.11.09 @ 22:49pm


Jake -

First off, this isn't a Madonna-only board. Surely you have something to toss in about someone else out there? (& if you do comment, I promise not to call you Shirley either).

I see where both of you are going on the Madonna argument, & I'm somewhere between you. On one hand, I do believe, as Gitar described, that Madonna's concerts are in fact "lip-synch & workout" shows. At the same time, you are quite right in noting that others who have tried it have failed, & that MTV was availiable to anyone w/a record contract & enough backing.

My personal take on Madonna is this: had she shown up 2 or 3 yrs. earlier, she probably would have been a full-fledged disco artist. Had it been 2 or 3 yrs later (say 86-87) she probably would have been sold as a teen idol. As it is, she's the equal or superior of most disco artists, the total superior of practically all teen icons after her, and does have some songs that roughly translate toward the pop radio side of rock.

The problem is that she has so little truly connecting her to a rock audience, plus the "lip synch & workout" experience leaves no room for any real improvisation live. Perhaps she does belong in the Rock Hall, & none of us will be able to recognize why till much later on.

It just feels strange...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 06:08am


Hey, I'll be the first to admit that a lot of what I say about her are opinions, sprinkled with a little fact, but I do spend a lot of time asking people for facts to substantiate what they say, and they keep bringing up...record sales or just plain jibberish!! I presented a valid question about "Like A Prayer" (which I already know the answer to), and what I said about her Denver concert was an undeniable fact. Instead of answering, Jake "took his ball and went home", which is what a lot of people do when they start a debate they can't win.

Oh, well...what else is new...??

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 07:10am


Madonna is the Queen Of Pop, she has made the best music ever, she transcended the genres and became the most complete artist ever

PS. Some comments here towards Madonna are really retarded. Before I used to say let's hear what these people have to say, but their idiocy is too big to even consider a reply to these morons. Give it up people, your retarded comments are a waste of time

Ah...and you can shove Barbara and Minnelly up your ass, RETARD

Posted by Bertwein on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 17:14pm


You forgot Madonna is the best live performer...her shows, the energy, the tens of thousands of people adoring the Queen of Music. Just outstanding!

Plus according to most recent figures,Madonna's on a worldwide basis the 3rd biggest selling music act ever, only Beatles and Elvis have sold more! Only they have sold more albums than her and only they have sold more singles than her, worldwide
The only American musician to have sold over 100 million albums internationally, outside US! Biggest selling solo artist in Europe, for both albums and singles, only the mighty Beatles and Queen have sold more there. A truly global artist, who has had Gold, Platinum and Diamond records basically everywhere
In US, she has 12 #1s and 37 Top 10 hits, more than any other artist. Also nly Elvis has more Gold singles than her!
Madonna's cumulative sales- albums & singles are estimated to be roughly 300 million, 200 million for albums and over 100 million singles
Her music still sells all over the world, albums, singles, physically and digitally, she's present more than ever in millions of people's life!

Posted by Berta on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 17:35pm


Just like Steve Perry's page is full of nonsense from fan girls, Madonna's page is full of nonsense from fanboys. But at least some of the fanboys give it a try. Bertwein, however, with his "You can shove Barbara and Minnelly up your ass, retard" isn't one of them

Posted by Keebord on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 17:39pm


Madonna is a huge icon everywhere, no doubt. I love her music, she's such a true inspiration and role model

Posted by John on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 17:58pm


Keebord...those 2 posts before yours only go to reaffirm what I've been saying. "Best live performer", hmmmm...?? What's live about lip-synching (which, by the way Madonna has been notorious for years)?? Plus, like most pro-Madonna posts, no mention of influence or innovation...just a bunch of rubbish. But, of course, there's the record sales again (which, by the way, Madonna isn't the 3rd best-selling artist ever...not even close). Where do they get their information?

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 18:17pm


Artist SINGLES sales/ Worldwide:

1 Elvis Presley ~100 m
2 The Beatles ~100 m
3 Madonna ~85 m

All other artists under 60 m

Artist ALBUMS sales/ Worldwide

1 The Beatles ~280 m
2 Elvis, Madonna ~190m
3. MJ, Pink Floyd~ 170M

All other artists under 160 m

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 18:26pm


Elvis and the Beatles have both sold over a billion records...that's a fact. The only artists who are close to that are Bing Crosby and Michael Jackson...that is also a fact. The album "Thriller" has sold over 100 million copies...by itself (Uh...another fact)!!!

By the way, did anyone notice Madonna's ommission from Rolling Stone's "100 Greatest Singers of All Time"?

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 18:56pm


No music act has sold 1 billion records, and Thriller has sold only 50-60 million copies

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:00pm


*Double albums counted as 1 album (also box sets counted as 1 unit)

Estimated album sales (US+ Europe):

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:01pm


Beatles~ 230 million (135+95)
Madonna~ 145 (70+75)
Elvis ~ 145 million (100+45)

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:01pm


MJ~ 120 million (65+ 55)
PF~ 120 million (65+55)

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:02pm


...even your precious Wikipedia will tell you that you're WRONG, Jake!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:03pm


Madonna has sold more albums than Michael Jackson in almost all the countries on Earth, including big markets like US, UK, Canada, Japan, Italy, Spain, Australia, Germany etc
Madonna has sold more singles in all the countries in the world, with no exceptions

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:05pm


Ha ha ha Gitarzan you're a Jacko fan, that's why u're posting ur bullsh*t on Madonna's thread, ha, ha, u're pathetic

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:07pm


The figure for MJ- 750 million is utter bulsh*t, same for the claim that Thriller has sold 104 million, utter bullsh*t. Thriller has sold somewhere between 50-60 million copies, and MJ's overall album sales total (160-170 million) is behind Madonna's total (190-200 million). Also Madonna has sold way more singles than MJ in all the countries basically- USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Canada, Japan, Australia, Spain etc

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:12pm


In terms of albums sales, on a worldwide basis, Madonna is the 3rd biggest selling music act ever (behind Beatles and Elvis)
In terms of singles sales, on a worldwide basis, Madonna is the 3rd biggest selling music act ever (behind Beatles and Elvis)

* Bing Crosby may have sold a lot of singles between wars, but it's not verified data
* Beatles and Elvis are certified in US 170 Platinum and 119 Platinum, according to RIAA, but they have many double albums and box sets, so their actual total is 130.000.000 albums for Beatles and 100.000.000 albums for Elvis. If a double albums sells 1 million, RIAA gives it a 2 Platinum certification (2 million), that's how it goes.
Madonna is 63.5 Platinum in US, but most of her albums have sold more than the actual certification, so her total of albums sold in US is about 70 million.
In Europe, Madonna is the biggest selling solo artist ever, with estimated album sales of over 75 million. Only Beatles have sold more there (around 90 million albums) and Queen.

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:16pm


Jacko fan...farthest thing from it. But facts are facts...Madonna is lucky if she's moved HALF the units he has. You, however are turning into one of the more prominent "fountains of misinformation" on this site...you don't even give a point of reference for any of the crap you're spewing. You're such a big Wikipedia fan...GO READ IT!!!! Or is it only useful when the information supports Madonna.

Now you're starting to spout insults...and you call me pathetic????

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:17pm


1. Madonna is the world's biggest selling female artist ever
2. Madonna is Europe's biggest selling solo artist ever (has sold more albums than any other solo artist there, also has sold more singles than any other solo artist there)
3. Madonna is the ONLY American artist to have sold over 100.000.000 albums internationally, outside US
4. Madonna is the 2nd best selling female artist in US in term of albums and according to Bilboard and RIAA singles certifications the biggest selling female artist in term of singles sales (has had 37 Top Ten singles, more than any other artist, 12 #1s and has surpassed Beatles in second place for most Gold singles, behind Elvis)


*Michael Jackson is lucky to be behind Madonna, in both album and single sales (physical+digital)

Madonna ~190-200 million albums moved worldwide
MJ ~160-170 million albums moved worldwide


Madonna ~85-90 million singles moved worldwide
MJ ~50 million singles moved worldwide


Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:22pm


And sorry, unlike others Madonna doesn't even lip syncs in her concerts, most of the times she actually sings live and like all artists also uses pre-recorded vocals.
Watch your idol Gitarzan, MJ, lip syncing in all his old concerts, all the time. This was never the case with Madonna. Her concerts are the most professional in the buisness, they don't get any better

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:32pm


...so, where are you getting your information? Are you agreeing with Wiki again???? You either agree with what it says...or you don't. Don't pick and choose. If the information supports her, it's okay. If it makes her pale in comparison to any other given artist, then it's bullshit.

That still doesn't take into consideration influence or innovation, which none of you rabid fans can ever come up with. Her's was a popularity induction, you know it, I know it, and anyone with any sense of modern musical knowledge knows it. There's a list of artists a mile long who were/are more deserving, and that's a travesty!!!

You said you were going away...by all means, please do.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:39pm


Wikipedia? Lol, Wikipedia doesn't know sh*t about sales...all the fans are posting inflated figures for their idold, IMAO, Wikipedia is ridiculous in this regard
But nobody is denying other artists success, only thing is that Madonna is one of the few musicians that have been huge all over the world, her music appeal is trully global, and overall only Beatles and Elvis have sold more albums than her, and the same goes for singles sales

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:39pm


Dude, how can one even pretend to have a debate with you Gitarzan, when you always sound like a piece of wood?

Madonna and inovation are synonimous, even the most retarded can see that...She has basically approached all genres, styles and trends, and also invented some along..She the most ecclectic artist. Most of the other artists, like Jacko, have remained stuck in the past and did the same thing and formulas, all over again. Madonna has been a genius of reinvention, this is a wide accepted fact, so your questions, doubts, etc are nothing but noise coming from a piece of wood, and a rotten one

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:52pm


Gitarzan, you do sound like a broken engine, so maybe you can take your wonderful personality maybe out of Madonna's thread...You're garbage

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:56pm


Maybe that's because most artists can remain true to themselves and their style without resorting to "going where the money is". How often has Madonna been an innovator,and if so, what specifically was it? What "wheel" did she invent musically? What has she done that someone hadn't done before? Why is it that when a certain genre gains momentum, all of the sudden Madonna pops up right in the middle of it? Does she do that to "show everyone how it's done", or is she simply looking for a piece of the pie? Also, name one truly great performer who includes Madonna as an influence...please include where and when they said it. You're the great Madonna expert, surely you have these answers.

I give my opinions which you obviously don't like. I'm sure there are artists that I like that you wouldn't care for (If you don't like Michael Jackson, then that's probably one thing we've got in common. His earlier stuff was okay, but that is one soul truly in need of help). I have asked people the same questions I've asked you, and every time, just like you, they resort to spewing venom at me personally...which is lame. My opinion of Madonna hasn't changed since the first time I heard her, and to me her popularity is one of the world's great mysteries. Add to the fact that her methods of doing things is, how would you say, sometimes questionable. As a musician and true lover of "Rock & Roll", she'll always remain insignificant.

But, as mrxyz would say..."LOVE YOUR IDOLS".

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 20:13pm


Garbage, huh? Coming from the likes of you, I can deal with that...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 20:18pm


Jake...your precious Madonna isn't even in the Top 10 album sales in the US, going by the RIAA website so quite bringing that up it is getting old, it don't mean nothing. There are artists that have sold 10 times less than her that mean more to Rock and Roll than she ever will.

Posted by Brian on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 20:52pm


Your "opinion" will always remain insignificant, since she was inducted in the first year of eligibility and you contradict yourself

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:00pm


Ya, Madonna is in the Top 15 album sales in the US, going by the RIAA website, at 7.5 million behind nr. 8 on that list.
Plus most of her albums have sold more than their respecticve certification.
On a worldwide basis, the difference is created by Madonna being the only American artist to have sold over 100.000.000 albums
internationally, outside US, which puts her total of album sales only behind Beatles and Elvis.
Madonna is the biggest selling female artist in UK, only Beatles and Elvis have sold more albums & singles (cumulated)than her there. She is by far the biggest selling solo artist in Europe, with estimated album sales at over 75 million, which is huge. She is also one of the biggest international artists in Australia, Asia, South America, Canada, Mexico and other more exotic places

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:14pm


I think Elvis is American so that counterdicts yourself right there, and anyway who cares about album sales except the artists and the record companies anyway.

Posted by Brian on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:18pm


Be careful, Brian. If you dare question anything Madonna, you too will be relegated to being "garbage".

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:23pm


I will be careful, lol, but I am tired of all of these dinks thinking her album sales mean something. Plus she is already in the hall so why do all these people come on here and talk about her. At least when people like Roy and Lax come on here they talk about artist that haven't been inducted yet. Even if it is the same bullsh*t over and over again

Posted by Brian on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:34pm


Ya Elvis is American artist and Madonna has sold more albums than him internationally, outside US. To give an example, Madonna has sold an estimated 75 million albums in Europe, whereas Elvis about 45 million. Madonna has also sold more singles in Europe. Elvis's main market remains US, whereas Madonna is huge everywhere in the world, especially Europe.
Elvis's label has claimed that he has sold 1 billion????, but their were multiplying the albums with the number of songs on them, to give an inflated total for "records" sales. Same goes for Beatles. MJ's claim at 750 million is also ridiculous, since there is no country where he has sold 2 or 3 times more albums or records than Madonna, in fact in most of the countries Madonna has sold more albums, and more singles.
Madonna is probably the most deserving artist to be in the RRHOF, since no one has had like her before or ever since the most unique combination into music of attitude, taste, intelligence, soul, art, diversity, sexuality, energy, postmodernism, iconic status,perfection, theatrical performance and so on

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:40pm


HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY "WHO CARES ABOUT ALBUM SALES"?

Plus I think it is time for you to take your medicine and go back into your room for the night so the nurses can lock up. You obviously have some mental condition and I hope you will get better.

Posted by Brian on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 21:46pm


Madonna - Gambler (The Virgin Tour)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hwFN6u7wRg

Watch this and Rock and Roll at its best, how Madonna hits it hard, one of the best Rock and Roll performances ever- 1985

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:05pm


Madonna - Gambler (The Virgin Tour)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hwFN6u7wRg

yea that was a nice little POP song, so what are you trying to prove?

Posted by Brian on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:08pm


IMAO...it's 10 times better than Tina's performance
And honey, that is pop-rock, Rock and Roll, no pop in there
No dancers, no gimmicks...the best performer EVER

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:13pm


That performance equals in intensity any of the hardest performances by let's say Axl Rose, one of the most energetic performers in hard rock

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:20pm


Plus, it looks BETTER

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:21pm


Madonna is in the Hall, but she still can't sing.

Posted by akatsuki on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:40pm


Brian...another thing to consider...Tina was in her late 40's on that particular tour. Also, hardcore Madonna fans think anything she does is 10 times better than anyone else. You'll also observe that they very rarely talk about any other artists.

I have to admit that she appeared to actually be singing...I nearly fell out of my chair...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:42pm


Madonna has oneof the most beautiful (if not the most beautiful), melodic, rhytmic and amazing voices in pop history. No doubt about that. Also 29 Grammy nominations, of which 7 won

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:46pm


Well, Jake...I'm glad YOU think so. As for Grammys, Aretha Franklin has won 18.

There's always someone who's done it better...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:54pm


Bruce Springsteen was also won more Grammies and he's one of the worst singers like, ever. But if you play nice, you'll get your Grammy IMAO, even every year, like "The Boss", because you're... nice

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:58pm


"About Madonna, Gitarzan wrote:
Well, Jake...I'm glad YOU think so. "

I'm glad too

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 23:01pm


I'm not the biggest Springsteen fan, but I'd have to say he earned all 19 Grammys that he's been awarded...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 23:09pm


Ohh mais ca, c'est n'est pas possible...Of course he desearved all the awards. He's very talented, the only problem being of course that he doesn't actually sings, he whispers...Compared to him, Madonna is a damn soprana

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 23:15pm


Madonna ~85-90 million singles moved worldwide
MJ ~50 million singles moved worldwide




Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 19:22pm


Mc Donalds has sold billions of hamburgers..
Are they the best burger or are they the best at selling burgers?


I find her a great PR stunt.. I find many "stars" are just that...

All I can say is ..it sounds like she needs to be rich and famous..
"LOVE YOUR IDOL" {smile}



Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 03.13.09 @ 00:55am


Watch this and Rock and Roll at its best, how Madonna hits it hard, one of the best Rock and Roll performances ever- 1985

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 03.12.09 @ 22:05pm

LOl you missed the best in 85.. It was in a smokey bar on a Friday night in Dixie just outside of Atlanta.. a mile or 3 down that old country road..
2 Nashville pickers and a gal from Brooklin..
Playing da blues, hillbilly rock and she even did some rock skat that nobody has ever heard before. !The join was rockin the bass player knew he was to hot.. The horns were melting and the drummer was in smokin all night long..
They played for drinks and tips..She was beautiful and the men were cool and strong.. The crowd went crazy all night long .. Best show in 85.. Ya should of been there,,,

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 03.13.09 @ 01:16am


Well, I just gotta say last night was memorable around here! Too bad I missed it. All I did was try to wave a symbolic white flag & ask Jake to stick around for a bit, & you folks threw down something fierce on this here Madonna page, didn't ya?

I'm almost afraid to try that stunt again!!! (lmao)

Now don't anybody kill me for bringing this up, but in all the discussion over who sold more, I didn't see Frank's name come up anywhere. You can't tell me the Chairman himself ain't sittin' up there in the pole position (or at least close to it, now!).

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 03.13.09 @ 06:47am


Cheesecrop...It was just another day at the races...the usual me giving my opinion and asking why she deserved induction, and another fanboy choosing to call me garbage (among other things) instead of answering the questions I put forth.

No one will ever convince me that she should've been inducted...especially on the first ballot...over a large number of artists who are obviously deserving, and have been for a while. It's the main reason I don't say "so & so" should or shouldn't be inducted, because the rules change to suit the "committee"...even to the extent that Jann Wenner can "pre-empt" an artist from being inducted so that another genre can be represented (as was the case with the Dave Clark 5).

If someone gave me a detailed synopsis on influence and innovation (I might be wavering a bit on perpetuation of the "artform"...whatever it is in her case), complete with facts and references, while leaving out the trivial nonsense (including record sales...which we can term the "ABBA rule") I'd probably just say "that's good enough for me...I don't like her but she deserved the award". but when you corner these people they get totally off of it and start with the personal attacks (which don't bother me, but that's when you can tell they don't have any answers). We've seen it with Madonna, Steve Perry, boy bands, etc...

I think her induction brought about more questions about the legitimacy of the HoF than answers....People can feel free to disagree.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 03.13.09 @ 18:02pm


Nobody's trying to convince you of anything Gitarzan. You stick to your opinion, other stick to theirs and consider that Madonna is one of the most deserving artists to be in the RRHOF.
From an artistic point of view, Madonna brought religious, sexual, even social and political themes in the world of pop rock, something that no other woman had done before, at least at her scale, or ever since. She also delivered some of the greatest music ever made. LPs like True Blue, Like A Prayer, Ray of Light or Confessions are some of the best albums ever made. She brought an open sexuality and a certain rawness that nobody had before in their music. She reinvented her music and image countless of times, her versatility is unique as an artist, all others have tried, but most of them failed. She did dance, pop, pop-rock, funk, r'n'b, hip-hop, soul, had even jazz and country influences (I'm breathless and Music albums, respectively).
Her greatest hits album The Immaculate Collection gathers basically some of the music made in the 80's, if not the best. She brought an intelligent artist in the pop world, something that is very rare. Most of the "pop" artists are dumb. As a visual artist, she is unrivalled. Her obvious physical beauty is part of that, but with only that you don't get anywhere. She is the most creative artist in the world of pop and music, a Shakespeare of popular culture. Look at artists like Britney or Christina, or any other diva, they are talented when compared to many, it's true, but when compared to Madonna, they all look and SOUND the same.
Madonna's sound, what is her sound? It's pop, it's dance, it's pop-rock, it's new style, it's old school, it's a little bit of rock, and soul, and funk, and hip-hop, it's a little bit of everything. She plays guitar in her last two world tours, Confessions Tour and SS tour
It's American, it's English, it's Spanish, it's European. It's light pop, then it's dark, like in the Frozen song.It's rhythmic, pop rock, than it's the classic ballads- crazy For you, Live To Tell, This Used To Be My Playground, You'll See, Take A Bow, Of father and others. She's intelligent, she's a stupid bimbo, she's this and that.
Her music is amazing and will always stand the test of time, her ballads, even rhythmic songs are timeless. That a look at other "commercial artists", they stand for an era and then fade away, their music is basically cheap crap. Not the case for Madonna. Take a look to a song as minimalistic as Lucky Star, the video could have been shot nowadays and it wouldn't look at from early 80's. The song is brought to life by Madonna amazing voice, her unique and one of a kind energy.
Look at Olivia Newton John or Blondie or Cindy Lauper music and videos, they all seem DATED, it's like you feel like saying: ya, it's the 80's. Not the case for Madonna, most of her old/classic songs, ballads have a certain ethereal and timeless aura.
The Like A Virgin song and video could easily be released today, not the case for most of the older acts

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 12:23pm


If you look at the history of popular music, Jake, you'll find that most of that stuff you mentioned had been done before, and at any given time (take Olivia Newton-John in the 70's, for instance) it seemed to be at a pretty large scale. As far as videos go, Madonna's 80's videos look like they were done in the 80's. From what I experienced before she came along or since, she never struck me as anything special, and at this point in time her visual attributes are starting to fade, and then I guess we'll see if her music will stand the test of time after she's no longer able to perform like she does now. I could give you tons of reasons and examples why I think or feel the way I do about her, but let's just sum up this little rift with an old saying;

"One man's medicine is another man's poison".

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 12:47pm


Everything that Beatles, Elvis, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Queen, Michael Jackson did had been done before, they didn't "innovate" anything, as an artist is impossible to be void of influences- no matter if musician, writer, actor etc. Just like them, Madonna has made some of the best music ever, in her genre of course, she's not an hard rock musician.

And ONJ has never had the roughness, raunchiness and sexuality of Madonna. She was the bimbo equivalent of Britney in the 70-80's. Madonna has made better music than her, in the pop genre only Michael Jackson has delivered the quality of music that Madonna has

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 13:06pm


Those groups you mentioned were, in fact, very innovative in a lot of ways...but because Madonna is the queen of your world, and no one tops her in your eyes, it would be a waste of time to give you any sort of musical history lesson. I put forth questions about influence and innovation concerning Madonna, and you've failed to deliver...just like everyone else whose been confronted with the same questions. To you, no other artist remotely compares to her, and it's very difficult to have a conversation with someone who can't take a little criticism about their favorite artist. People chop on artists I like on here all the time, and I might give my opinion to the contrary, and one thing I never do is degrade other artists to bolster my favorites...their merits stand on their own, they don't need my help. Don't get me wrong, it's okay for you and anyone else to enjoy her body of work...I'll go as far as to say "good for you", but keep it in perspective. There's a lot of great artists out there that are LONG overdue for this sort of recognition.

When Elvis went into Sun Records some 55 years ago to make a record for his mother, the receptionist asked him who he sounded like. His response was "Ah don't sound like nobody, ma'am". Some of the great innovators in popular music history didn't even mean to be...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 14:53pm


I put forth questions about influence and innovation concerning Madonna, and you've failed to deliver...just like everyone else whose been confronted with the same questions.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 14:53pm
--------------------------------------------------
I've been thinking about this for a bit, but you finally got me w/this one, Gitar. Like I've said before, I do tend to agree w/you on Madonna MOST of the time. This got me though, so I beg your indulgence while I TRY to give you an answer to this. I'm interested in seeing whether I can:

Madonna has influenced some artists. Britney, Christina, Debbie Gibson, Tiffany, Paula Abdul. The fact is, these folks don't all necessarily SOUND the same. Aguilera was definitely different when she adopted a 30's/40's big-band style, which is someplace Britney never went. In addition, some of Gibson's work was far more melodic than Abdul, Spears, or Aguilera. Remember now, you don't have to like the artist's influences to appreciate them. Earlier I posted on Pearl Jam,a band I think we both agree is a no-brainer. Would you say the same thing about some of the acts they've spawned in this current decade?

We already talked videos a few days ago, so I won't repeat. She does have a few songs that do come close to a certain style of 80's danceable synthesizer rock that borders on new-wave. "Songs like "Live To Tell" could easily slide in alongside artists like Berlin. Missing Persons, and Human League. Don't forget, this was considered rock at that time by at least a few kids. It never would have received exposure on radio as well as MTV if somebody didn't think it was rock.

That's about it here... tell me what you think?

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 15:32pm


I can see where you're coming from a bit (even though I could've done without some of those artists' music), but you've proven my point that anyone can put forth a forthright and intelligent response to those questions without all the other junk.First of all, you didn't refer to me as "garbage" because of my opinion, or belittle my opinion (which is just that) simply because you don't entirely agree with it.

For every 1 response like this, there must be about 200 of the "other kind". You know, like;

MADONNA...QUEEN! LEGEND! MYTH! GENIUS! HER MOST EXULTED ROYAL(ASS)HOLINESS!!!!

UGH!!!!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 15:58pm


I'm still looking for a Beatles song better than Papa Don't Preach, only one of Madonna's best songs. From what I've heared until now, even if I find it, I doubt it will be better than that masterpiece Like A Prayer, one of the best songs ever written and sung

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 17:25pm


I don't think Madonna has influenced any other artist and will never influence one. In the shodow of big trees, nothing grows green

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 17:43pm


Gitarzan, can you answer a simple question: do you think Like A Prayer is a brilliant song or not?

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 17:49pm


I'll answer it. No. I don't think "Like A Prayer" is a brilliant song. It's definitely one of her better songs, more dynamic, more challenging a song than most other stuff she did, but I wouldn't call it brilliant.

Beatles songs I would rate better than "Papa Don't Preach" or "Like A Prayer"-- well really all of them. From an artistic point-of-view, those that still apply:

Let It Be
The Long And Winding Road
She Loves You
Help!
There's A Place
And Your Bird Can Sing
In My Life
Girl
Wait
For No One
Tomorrow Never Knows
Any Time At All
Tell Me Why
I'll Be Back
Things We Said Today
Another Girl
I Need You
I've Just Seen A Face
Come Together
A Day In The Life
She's Leaving Home
It's All Too Much
Hey Bulldog
All You Need Is Love
Strawberry Fields Forever

Those are just off the top of my head.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 18:43pm


No, I really didn't think there was anything too outstanding about it. I'm not going to lie and say I didn't like that song "Frozen" a bit, though. I really like that style of song...very haunting, that sort of thing. I'm into the feeling of a song, not always paying much attention to lyrics unless they're really telling a story. I recently heard a song from the 80's called "Perfect Skin" by Lloyd Cole & the Commotions...a real catchy tune and interesting vocals. The way it was presented made me really want to figure out what he was talking about.

I'm very biased toward the Beatles because I learned to play guitar listening to them. While doing that, I remember thinking more than once "how on earth did they come up with this stuff?" Sometimes the brilliance was in the simplicity. It was a very good way to learn to play.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 19:39pm


When I was saying that I was still looking for a Beatles song better than Papa Don't Preach, I was being ironic, in the sense that i know most of their songs and I knew from the start that a song like "Papa Don't Preach" is better than most of their songs
Now if you really not consider "Like A Prayer" to be a brilliant song, than what else can be said, than that is all subjective, somehow.
I don't see how songs like "Let It Be" or "All You Need Is Love" are better than "Like A Prayer". But it's all subjective and I can respect that, unlike others around here commenting on Madonna

LAP is not only one of the best songs ever written, but Madonna's vocal interpretation is a trademark in pop history, one of the best ever by any artist or standards. The video is also an absolute masterpiece

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 19:49pm


nothing grows green, or tall or whatever

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 19:52pm


"Now if you really not consider "Like A Prayer" to be a brilliant song, than what else can be said, than that is all subjective, somehow"- Jake

BINGO!!!!! I'm not crazy about Madonna, doesn't mean I don't like a song or two...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 19:58pm


It's not about being crazy about X or Y. It's about the music. While I can understand her personality can be lovely sometimes or can make one pewk othertimes, it's about the music, the performance, raw energy, being real and inspiring. While nobody's dening the massive impact on popular music and culture of Beatles, Elvis, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Michael Jackson, Queen, Metallica and several other big greats, Madonna certainly has her place among those greats. She has proved herself to be a huge icon, legend, performer, singer and song writter. Regardless of her sexual debacles and many inherent flaws that any human or a genius like her has had, she is one of the greatest in popular music and culture

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 20:15pm


I hope it was kidding when using the word "garbage" to interact with a fellow poster. I gather that other Jake is a different one than the one who posts the respectable, sound posts on this page.

I maintain my stance that it's perfectly fine and acceptable for someone to not be a fan of a certain act (obviously), but at least recognize said act's importance, influence and even greatness in the field that they are recognized for (and, yes, we're talking about music- Madonna and her music each have had enough acclaim through the years, that is a fact).

If Madonna were someone who has not had a career full of acclaim for what she does (records, concerts, videos, etc.) then I would understand better those who have a problem with her being part of the HOF. But, that's not the case, so not sure where some of the anti-Madonna stance comes from, other than perdonal dislike or lack of enthusiasm for her (which, again, is fine, but recognize the large scope).

I'm not crazy about Bob Dylan, for instance, but he's obviously one of the greatest, most important artists of all time (not comparing Dylan's musical abilities and even importance to Madonna, but the example is fitting, since ye are both acclaimed, important artists).

Posted by JR on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 20:27pm


The anti-Madonna stance comes from the lunatic fans of other divas. I'm not going to mention which one, but the fans of one diva or whatever even thought to boycott Madonna's latest album leading single (4 Minutes) from US radio, as if Madonna has not been boycotted by the radio itself for years now. It's a lot of crap
And it's exactly like it's been said, in a way, it's not about just one artist, Madonna or whatever. It's about seeing the whole picture, but when I see people saying she's not in that picture, where the greats are, I find it ridiculous. I'm not a fan of Michael Jackson or Beatles, but I simply can't deny that they are great legends and have had million of fans and huge impact. It's about respecting each of the (great)artists, even if one doesn't (basically)relate to him

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 20:45pm


Posted by Jake on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 20:45pm


"The anti-Madonna stance comes from the lunatic fans of other divas"

"It's about seeing the whole picture,"
------------------------------------------
Yes Jake is right seeing the whole PICTURE.
Since I am not a fan of Maddona I can't be a anti-fan..SO......
The whole picture to me is ...Madonna is the Mc Donadls of music..
Sad in some ways but true..For many that is as far as they can understand.. That is why we have leaders and many follows. Look at our world leaders and you may understand why She is what she is..I call it full of HYPE.. Know wonder.... She sells !$$! look who is selling her.?$!!! If you don't know ..I will give you a clue. look into your TV real close and you may get the hint or as Jake said the "Picture"... Madonna is for those that need to belive..

"LOVE YOUR IDOL" {wink lol}



Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 21:33pm


@mrxyz

you are very retarded, and probably an alcoholic too

Madonna is the Queen Of Music

Posted by Martem on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 22:33pm


@mrxyz

You must be one of those idiots that are so idiots that they don't even know they are idiots, right, idiot?

Madonna is the best, idiot

Posted by Martem on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 22:38pm


The only McDonald hamburgers I smell in that bullsh*t RRHOF are Beatles and Elvis. Madonna is a f*cking Rolls Royce, if you ask me. And you can shove them up your fat arse

Posted by Martem on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 22:52pm


Why is it that most fans can't flash their Madge badge without looking like morons in the process? I mean, flaming is cheap and silly enough as it is, but to say the Beatles and Elvis are BS is just the height of ignorance of music, especially rock 'n' roll.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 23:25pm


Madonna is the best, idiot

Posted by Martem on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 22:38pm


---------------------------------------------------
I disagree Madonna is not "the best, idiot" .. As far as the Queen of music.. If you need a "Queen" so be it... I think one of my points are juat that..
I just don't believe in Kings or Queens or RRHOF or Mc Donalds ... As lennon said once I The Dream is over..
I do think she is a great PR machine..
As far as singer and such she is just ok..But her ticket line is $uper..
"ALL YOU NEED IS EARS"

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 06:20am


Jake...if I dislike or disapprove of something or someone, it doesn't necessarily mean it's in bad taste. It means I PERSONALLY don't like or that I PERSONALLY disapprove. Like I said before;

"One man's medicine is another man's poison".

I don't expect you to understand my rationale but you might as well accept it, because it's not likely to change. Instead of trying to decipher or criticize what makes people not like her, why don't you tell us in depth why you do...why you are so influenced by her...while leaving the "MYTH! GODDESS! GENIUS!" stuff out of it (there really aren't a lot of "musical geniuses" out there. By all accounts, Mozart was a "musical genius", but a total nitwit otherwise).

As for Martem...a typical Madonna "fanboy" posting, absolutely moronic!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 07:26am


Madonna is the best artist in history

Posted by Jake on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 16:50pm


Madonna is the Mozart of pop music
Her genius as an artist is above the popular culture, it's more like in the academic area

Posted by Jake on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 18:40pm


Very objective, Jake!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 18:55pm


mozart of pop music...hahahaha

did she write all her songs?

she's just following what the director says...

she's got the looks, and i think that's all that she has in the industry.

she's not even a soprana as what you declared.

she can't sing, Enya is better singer than her.

she really is innovative and influential but calling her a genius is a big crap.

Posted by chuvaness on Sunday, 03.15.09 @ 22:02pm


Madonna is the only artist of genius in popular music and culture. To say that she is very talented is an understatement, David Bowie is extremely very talented, but he's not a genius. Madonna has been a genius and has delievered such levels of perfection, that in her case perfection has become common habit, which is unheared of

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 00:04am


The complexity of Madonna The Artist is absolutely frightening, this woman artist in simply unreal

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 00:07am


O.K., Jake, we need a little sit down here.

I thought you were going to remain rational - you certainly seemed that way.

I stuck my neck out on Madonna cause I read something in your argument that did seem to be rational. I thought that I should dig a little deeper & reconsider her on those merits.

You're starting to scare me here... this is reminding me of wallPURG a couple weeks back posting all that same line of madness

You sure you ain't wallPURG in disguise...

Dr. Jake & Mr. wallPURG...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 06:00am


You know what I dislike about statements of pure insanity? There is no reasoning available when attempting to make a counter-point. Example - Jake's comments when comparing Madonna with Bowie. How does one even respond to this kind of lunacy?

I am not a Madonna fan, but I will certainly give her a nod when it comes to the entertainment world. Her talent has always been about publicity, over the edge personna and catchy pop/dance songs. Madonna is an icon; but she is no Bowie when it comes to musical talent. Never, ever compare the two.

Why is this silly conversation continuing? She is in the HoF and that is not going to change. Her fans are loyal and no non-fan is ever going to get them to see it differently. And when it comes to talent, fans can flame all they want about sales, you will never get her detractors to think she is anything more than the musical equivalent of Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 06:05am


"You know what I dislike about statements of pure insanity? There is no reasoning available when attempting to make a counter-point...How does one even respond to this kind of lunacy?"

"..detractors to think she is anything more than the musical equivalent of Alvin and the Chipmunks"

Ya how do you even respond to the kind of lunacy above, indeed
And wow, Madonna has detractors? At best, being a Madonna detractor is a lame excuse for his in born stupidity, lack of taste, brain, and musical year
Bowie is one of the most talented artists ever, but he comes nowhere near Madonna. Bowie is a massive talent, but Madonna the artist is a genius, the upper level. This woman has reinvented herself artsistically not from album to album, to a musical project to another, but from a song to another one. And not just for the sake of it, but because she's the most multidimensional talented artist in the history of popular music
Some of her best songs are so full of burning emotion, power, soulfullness and inspiration, that they take the shape of an almost extatic religious experience.
At their roots, basically all her songs are GOOD, another thing that is unheared of

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 10:40am


This woman has reinvented herself artsistically not from album to album, to a musical project to another, but from a song to another one. And not just for the sake of it, but because she's the most multidimensional talented artist in the history of popular music



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Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 10:50am


Madonna's brilliance as an artist is so massive and unearthy that it is socially and by the established cultural norms unacceptable

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 10:51am


Madonna's brilliance as an artist is so massive and unearthy that it is socially and by the established cultural norms unacceptable

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 10:51am


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL if you are the masses I would agree..
Her and a Big Mack.. and MTV... are ment for folks like you..{SMILE}

YOUR QUEEN IS HERE "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN"lol



Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 10:55am


Don't think that Madonna is so much for the masses, at its essence she is a cult artist
Madonna is such a sophisticated, mindblowing and genius artist even when comapared to some of the most talented artists like Bowie, Lennon or Jackson, she makes them look like fools

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 11:21am


Like I said, there is no logical discussion to be had here. If you want to keep mentioning Madonna in the same breath as Bowie and Lennon, then I have no time for this conversation. You just don't have a clue.

mrxyz - LMFAO

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 11:42am


Voice:

Madonna - Sooner or Later
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qdh8d6LXn8&feature=channel_page


Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 16:55pm


Art:

Madonna - Paradise (Not for Me) (Director's Cut)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPN9sp28FN8&feature=channel


Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 16:56pm


Not going to waste time on it Jake (or should I say "WallPURG"). You'll never convince me or anyone else on this site of anything. As a matter of fact, you're act is getting old. If you can't talk about anyone else, I'm sure there are plenty of Madonna fansites where you can spout this kind of stuff to your heart's content...and your constant ranting is probably phasing out someone who has something meaningful to say...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 17:16pm


Gitarzan, you were a freshman in college (circa 1975)???lol that means you're about 50 years old? I'm not even half that age, didn't know i was talking to a mature person. This clearly puts things in a whole different perspective, but on the main thing i'm still right: Madonna is one of the most talented artists ever, regardless of personal opinions, preferances, age, gender, colour, ethnicity, occupation, lol an others

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 18:42pm


Im my opinion, many people have beenlucky to have witnessed in their lives so many great artists and performers like Metallica, Guns and Roses, Bowie, Madonna, Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis,Pink Floyd and so many few others

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 19:12pm


Gitarzan, you were a freshman in college (circa 1975)???lol that means you're about 50 years old? I'm not even half that age, didn't know i was talking to a mature person. This clearly puts things in a whole different perspective, but on the main thing i'm still right: Madonna is one of the most talented artists ever, regardless of personal opinions, preferances, age, gender, colour, ethnicity, occupation, lol an others

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 18:42pm

Jake
do to your youth.. I sujest..you smell the roses an explore other singers.. and artist
Billie Holiday
Peggy Lee
Mose Alison
John Coltrane
Aretha Frankiln.
Patsy Cline
Janis Joplin

From these few artist you may begin to have a clue.. Please keep a open mind and ear..
Go to the roots and enjoy the voyage,
If you have heard them ..Hear them again until you hear them..




Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 19:15pm


To Jake and ALL

I love this one "Kulu Sé Mama"... But that is just me..all are good
"ALL YOU NEED IS EARS"

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 21:24pm


All this Madonna talk is almost getting to be like all the Coven talk and St. Jimmy.

Posted by Brian on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 21:39pm


Aretha and pretty muck all the other so called divas are, to make it short, boring, dull and lack the true spirit and soul of rock and roll. Having a high vocal range pretty much kills the music. Robert Plant, from his Zeppelin days, being an exception, and a few others for sure
Guns and Roses and Madonna are pretty much the biggest rock and roll talents that the 80's and America have given to the world
I find it ironically that with all those legendary British bands/greats dominating the rock and roll genre, an American group- Guns and Roses are above them all in terms of brilliance, like Madonna is among solo female performers ha ha ha

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 22:47pm


Aretha and pretty muck all the other so called divas are, to make it short, boring, dull and lack the true spirit and soul of rock and roll. Having a high vocal range pretty much kills the music. Robert Plant, from his Zeppelin days, being an exception, and a few others for sure
Guns and Roses and Madonna are pretty much the biggest rock and roll talents that the 80's and America have given to the world
I find it ironically that with all those legendary British bands/greats dominating the rock and roll genre, an American group- Guns and Roses are above them all in terms of brilliance, like Madonna is among solo female performers ha ha ha

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 22:47pm


Ok this is a joke...LOL I hope..Aretha can SING.. End of story they are not even on the same planet....And Billie Holiday is BILLIE HOLIDAY... IF YOU CAN NOT TELL/HEAR THE DIFFERANCE IT IS HOPELESS..
if not joke learn to HEAR!!!
Like I said go hear them {the names below}again until you can hear them..Maybe a Disney forum board would be best for you..
GOOG LUCK



Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 22:56pm


Madonna is a better singer than Aretha Franklin, Madonna's soul is richer in substance

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:05pm


Sorry, to make it complete, Madonna's soul is richer, higher, more complex and sophisticated in substance than Arethe. compared to Madonna, aretha sounds like a redneck, but only when compared to Madonna

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:10pm


All music, popular or classical or celtic or whatever, is about that substance. technique and range should always be an excuse for getting out that substance, not the other way. Beatles, Axl Rose, Michael Jackson, Madonna had that subtance more than others, and others several few

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:20pm


That's why Zappa will alwyas remain a ZERO artist. No matter how brilliant in musical techniques or intelligent, he lacked that special soul substance that only few have delivered, not only in music, but also in all the other art fields,cultural areas and so on.

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:26pm


To make it (even) shorter, if most of humanity consisted of people like Michael Jackson, Madonna, John Lennon, Elvis, Axl Rose, Davis Bowie, Aretha Franklin, Robert Plant and other so talented artist this world would't be the shithole that has always been and will always be

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:42pm


The fact that Mariah and Britney Spears latest albums have sold more than Madonna's in US tells a lot about the state of the nation. From a cultural point of view, Europe is America's bailout, that's why, despite selling less in the states, Madonna's latest album has sold more worldwide

Posted by Jake on Monday, 03.16.09 @ 23:57pm


Big Mama Thornton sings better than Madonna and that's a fact.

Posted by chuvaness on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 02:00am


I can't find Madonna's name in the list of 100 greatest singers.

Posted by chuvaness on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 02:02am


Jake/WalPurg - whatever your name is. Stop putting Madonna, Axl and M.J. in the same sentence as The Beatles. It's f'n wrong. And I don't care what Madonna flamers say or the too cool crowd; 45 years later and all the RnR/Pop bands are still lagging behind the Beatles by miles. There are The Beatles and The Who; then there is everybody else.

Stop saying that Madonna has more soul than Aretha - you are just making yourself sound even more stupid.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 05:42am


Jake/WalPurg - whatever your name is. Stop putting Madonna, Axl and M.J. in the same sentence as The Beatles. It's f'n wrong. And I don't care what Madonna flamers say or the too cool crowd; 45 years later and all the RnR/Pop bands are still lagging behind the Beatles by miles. There are The Beatles and The Who; then there is everybody else.

Stop saying that Madonna has more soul than Aretha - you are just making yourself sound even more stupid.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 05:42am

I agree with Jake/WalPurg that Madonna has more soul than Aretha, you know why?

She f*cks lots of guys than Aretha.

Calling Madonna as genius is a big crap.

Posted by chuvaness on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 05:45am


Madonna es mui hermosa, mui bom bom, uma diosa!!!

Posted by MadonnaFanGirl on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 09:48am


For the love of christ... SHUT THE @#$% UP about Madonna already Jake!!Its getting so freaking old already!

Posted by S.R on Tuesday, 03.17.09 @ 17:19pm


Not that there isn't enough evidence of her acclaim out there, but The Guardina (UK) has published its list of 1000 Songs You Must Hear, and guess who has the most entries fora female? Shocking, I know. She has six. Kate Bush and The Supremes follows with five each. Then, a handful of women have three.

What should be discussed is why men get so much more acclaim than women- is it becuase they actually are better musicmakers? Bob Dylan has 24 entries, and The Beatles have 19. After that, it's a gap- David Bowie (9), Rolling Stones (8), Elvis Presley and Beach Boys (6 each).

It's a man's world, but women are so underrepresented on these kinds of things.

Posted by JR on Friday, 03.20.09 @ 09:03am


Oops- was supposed to say Guardian. :)

Posted by JR on Friday, 03.20.09 @ 09:04am


John Lennon - Jealous Guy, what a great song, he's a genius like Madonna

Posted by WallPURG on Friday, 03.20.09 @ 22:35pm


Bowie's Ziggie awesome too

Posted by WallPURG on Friday, 03.20.09 @ 22:42pm


Most talented artists in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame:

1st level:

Steven Wonder, Madonna, The Beatles, Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, John Lennon

2nd level

U2, David Bowie, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd


3rd level

AC/DC, Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting, Frank Zappa

Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 21:29pm


What...????? Who dreamed this list up and what could it possibly be based on?????

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 21:49pm


1st level:

Stevie Wonder, Madonna, The Beatles, Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, John Lennon

Criteria is a mixture of:

1. Overall quality of music
2. Overall quality of the artist(genius, exceptionally talented,complexity)
3. Overall quality of the performance artist(quality of the live performer, incorporating other fields in music- short films/videos, literature, philosophy etc)
3. Legendary/Iconic status
4. Cultural impact and relevance




Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 22:23pm


Based on the first two criteria, Madonna has no ground to be a First-Level Inductee then.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 22:53pm


Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 22:23pm



Lol if you say so...
My list is whith your 1,2,3,4.
Little Richard Chuck Berry, Elvis, Beatles. Dylan,Lewis.
Lynk Wray/Dwain Eddy,,Bob Marley,Led Zeppelin, Hendrix ,Aretha Franklin,Stones,James Brown,Ike Tunner ,Muddy Waters,Peter Paul and Mary .. Even that is not enough of who's who... I just don't see Madonna in it I would put Madonna way under Cher or Elton John...Lot of great artist hard to say what is what...Michael Jackson,Blondie,Bee Gees, Beach Boys ,Joan Baez, Donavon and Van Halen are miles and miles in front of Madonna..




Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 23:07pm


Madonna's overall quality of music and as an artist is outstanding. From all artists, she has the biggest number of quality songs, overall.
The fact that she worked with some of the best producers is not an excuse, why other artists haven't delivered so many brilliant tracks like her? She was involved in the creative process, she knew when to say no. She started talented and ended up brilliant, her evolution as an artist is one of a kind. In term of musical skills, Stevie Wonder is known to be way more experienced and diverse, but Madonna is the more natural gifted talent

Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 23:22pm




Madonna's overall quality of music and as an artist is outstanding. From all artists, she has the biggest number of quality songs, overall.
The fact that she worked with some of the best producers is not an excuse, why other artists haven't delivered so many brilliant tracks like her? She was involved in the creative process, she knew when to say no. She started talented and ended up brilliant, her evolution as an artist is one of a kind. In term of musical skills, Stevie Wonder is known to be way more experienced and diverse, but Madonna is the more natural gifted talent

Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 23:22pm




She is McDonald's of Music



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Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 23:27pm



To deny that Madonna has delivered some of the music ever produced is always a fraud, one way or another. I know all Stevie Wonder catalogue, who is reckoned to be one of the most talented musicians and has won more Grammies than any other solo musician, 22.
But Madonna has made better music than him, overall. Why she didn't get more Grammies is another debate that has nothing to do with the pure quality of the music whatsover. Madonna's raw talent in popular music is unparalleled

Posted by John on Saturday, 03.21.09 @ 23:47pm


John, I'm sorry, but Madonna has NOT made better music than Stevie Wonder. That's just ludicrous. Madonna's music is vapid, shallow, and flat and tinny many times. If music is the food of love, Madonna's output is empty calories. And raw talent? Seriously? WHAT talent? She's not a good singer, her songwriting is of no consequence, she sure as hell doesn't do her own arranging, she doesn't do squat in terms of instrument playing. WHAT talent? Seriously, I am not seeing it. I'll grant you criteria 3-5. Her live performances are highly visual and could probably keep most of an audience's collective attention. And yeah, she's legendary alright, with plenty of impact and relevance. But she is NOT talented. And her music is almost pure schlock. It's as schlocky as it can get while still pissing off the prissy pricks.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 00:00am


"Madonna's music is vapid, shallow, and flat and tinny many times. If music is the food of love, Madonna's output is empty calories. And raw talent? Seriously? WHAT talent?"

Madonna has more "love" in her music than you will ever fathom in your life. You obviously lacking knowledge of her whole music.

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 00:14am


Bliss and intelligence are like weightlifting. Some people get it, some don't, will never do...

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 00:22am


Madonna does not have love in her music. She has sexual drive/yearnings in her music. Don't ever confuse the two.

On top of which, love is not talent. I love an amazing guitar line. But I cannot play guitar. There is a huge difference between the two. You're obviously lacking knowledge of music as a whole.

And lastly, claiming "love" in the music is often pure BS. Thomas Kincaide claims that every brush stroke of his paintings are filled with Love, and that love embraces each and every one of his works. Thomas Kincaide is considered a joke in the world of art for the crap he puts out. Love into one hand and crap in the other and see which hand fills up first.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 00:31am


I'd love to be able to sing and create the amazing music that artists like Stevie Wonder and Madonna have made, but of course I can't, never will be able

"She has sexual drive/yearnings in her music"

Oh Father?
I'll Remember?
I Deserve It (Music album)?
This Used To Be My Playground?
American Life album? (an amazing folk inspired album)
You'll See?
Take A Bow?
Frozen?
Live To Tell?
Secret?
Love Don't Live Here Anymore?
I Want You?

In how many songs has so sublimely Madonna expressed the hardships of love and life, the dilemmas of existence, the darkness and the light of the human condition etc?

"Sexual drive/yearnings" are only a part in her music and even that part, she made it sure to make it ART


Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 00:59am


Aside from "Take A Bow", "Live To Tell," and "Secret," none of those rank among her best known songs. Now let's compare that to being knocked up in "Papa Don't Preach," the absolute sluttiness of "Justify My Love", her book Sex, "Dress You Up," "Like A Virgin" (dead obvious example), etc. She does not wear her heart on her sleeve as a musician. She wears her libido on her sleeve.

If you want a singer who emphatically puts love into everything they sing and play, look no further than Ringo Starr who even had an album a few years ago called "Choose Love." He's even a better songwriter than Madge.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:18am


I watched a lot of people playing Madonna covers on YouTube,playing guitar and with a great voice, but they all lack that special and unique feeling that Madonna has put in her best songs and this is one of the signs of a great artist
All people and producers that worked with her over the years have applauded her professionalism and being one of the most hardworking acts. Plus, beyond this all somehow maybe cheap talk, through her music and concerts and enterprises Madonna has actually created maybe thousands of jobs in the industry, unlike some people around here and other places, who talk without knowing what they are talking about and have an opinion on everything, no matter how shallow or deluded

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:22am


And to reply to Philip, many of her "unknown" songs are, from an artistic point of view, more "haunting" and better than her more known, commercial stuff

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:32am


Well, John, if hardworking equals talent, then Las Vegas is full of incredibly talented women who dress with as much class and taste as Madonna. Creating jobs is a sign of talent? Seriously, what are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?

As far as unique feel... every artist's rendition of a song is going to be different, and that runs into the issue, as it were, of people who will always claim that the original version of something is always the best. Plus, Madonna has the benefit of doing several takes of a song to get something whereas an artist covering at a live venue has but one chance to nail it. Also, a special something can quite often be the figment of an obsessively loyal and overactive imagination.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:35am


Ok, I'll give you the point about lesser known songs being better than the commercial stuff. That's a fair point. Touche.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:39am


Dear God, I mentioned hard working and creating jobs only as a side note, don't you worry about that. Anyways these endless "debates" are rather pointless
I was checking a M. Jackson forum and all his fans there are praising him as the greatest entertainer of all time. If I say that Madonna is better, they'd probably slaughter me
And right now I'm listening to Stevie Wonder's "Master Blasting", he's so great, like so much of Madonna's music

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 01:45am


Everyone's feeling pretty
It's hotter than July
Though the world's full of problems
They couldn't touch us even if they tried
From the park I hear rhythms
Marley's hot on the box
Tonight there will be a party
On the corner at the end of the block

Didn't know you
Would be jammin' until the break of dawn
I bet nobody ever told you that you
would be jammin' until the break of dawn
You would be jammin' and jammin' and jammin', jam on

They want us to join their fighting
But our answer today
Is to let all our worries
Like the breeze through our fingers slip away
Peace has come to Zimbabwe
Third World's right on the one
Now's the time for celebration
'Cause we've only just begun

Didn't know that you
Would be jammin' until the break of dawn
Bet you nobody ever told you that you
Would be jammin' until the break of dawn
You would be jammin' and jammin' and jammin', jam on
Bet you nobody ever told you that you
(We're in the middle of the makin's of the master blaster jammin')
Would be jammin' until the break of dawn
I know nobody told you that you
(We're in the middle of the makin's of the master blaster jammin')
Would be jammin' until the break of dawn
We're jammin', jammin', jammin', jam on

You ask me am I happy
Well as matter of fact
I can say that I'm ecstatic
'Cause we all just made a pact
We've agreed to get together
Joined as children in Jah
When you're moving in the positive
Your destination is the brightest star

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 02:01am


True enough. And pointless is right. She is in, and I agree that she deserved her induction, but I'll never be convinced of her artistic talent or musical genius.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 02:06am


I does resemble a little bit with a certain Elvis Costello track,"Watching the Detectives", but that's another story...

Posted by John on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 02:09am


Has WallPURG now changed his name to "John"? One thing's for sure...someone who's never heard Madonna would read these comments and think "I gotta listen to this Madonna", and would walk away thinking "Is this the SAME Madonna they're talking about??? Those people went to their happy place and never came back!!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 07:25am


So this is the great Peace in Zimbabwe that she so joyfully sings about huh...?
She needs to get a life of her own.. A job in Vegas ...
She sell a lot but her politics are not of this world... THE DREAM IS OVER.. ..
I like Britney Speers better..






Following elections in 2005, the government initiated "Operation Murambatsvina", a purported effort to crack down on illegal markets and homes that had seen slums emerge in towns and cities. This action has been widely condemned by opposition and international figures, who charge that it has left a substantial section of urban poor homeless.[34] The Zimbabwe government has described the operation as an attempt to provide decent housing to the population although they have yet to deliver any new housing for the forcibly removed people.[35]
A map showing the food insecurity in Zimbabwe in June 2008.

Zimbabwe's current economic and food crisis, described by some observers as the country's worst humanitarian crisis since independence, has been attributed in varying degrees, to a drought affecting the entire region, the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and the government's price controls and land reforms.[36]

Life expectancy at birth for males in Zimbabwe has dramatically declined since 1990 from 60 to 37, among the lowest in the world. Life expectancy for females is even lower at 34 years.[37] Concurrently, the infant mortality rate has climbed from 53 to 81 deaths per 1,000 live births in the same period. Currently, 1.8 million Zimbabweans live with HIV.

On 29 March, 2008, Zimbabwe held a presidential election along with a parliamentary election. The three major candidates were Robert Mugabe of the Zimbabwe African National Union - Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF), Morgan Tsvangirai of the Movement for Democratic Change – Tsvangirai (MDC-T), and Simba Makoni, an independent. The results of this election were withheld for several weeks, following which it was generally acknowledged that the MDC had achieved a significant majority of seats. However, Mugabe retained control and has not conceded the election results that would otherwise put him out of power.

In late 2008, problems in Zimbabwe reached crisis proportions in the areas of living standards, public health (with a major cholera outbreak in December) and various public considerations.[38] Production of diamonds at Marange became the subject of international attention as more than 80 people were killed by the military [39] and the World Diamond Council called for a clampdown on smuggling.[40]

In September 2008, a power-sharing agreement, between Mugabe and Tsvangirai was reached, in which, while Mugabe remained president, Tsvangirai will become prime minister. However, due to ministerial differences between their respective political parties, the agreement was not fully implemented until February 13, 2009, two days after the swearing of Tsvangirai as Prime Minister of Zimbabwe.

[edit] Administrative divisions

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 09:33am


Gitarzan,

Your guess is as good as mine. As far as the sex being only a part of her music though... it still seems to me, it's the MAJORITY of what she "sings" about. Most of her output is about putting out.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 12:08pm


Hey, Philip....I think back on the song "Love To Love You Baby" by Donna Summer. There was no qualms whatsoever about what that song was about...LOL!!!!! A perfect song for Madonna would've been "What's Love Got To Do With It?"...LMAO!!!!!

Or....maybe even "Afternoon Delight"...ROFL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 12:58pm


Madonna singing "Afternoon Delight"? That does not put my skyrocket in flight, if you know what I mean. Besides which, that song actually relied heavily on the singers' ability to sing.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 13:28pm


No argument here! I think she thinks "harmony" is another word for "grits", if ya know what I mean....!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.22.09 @ 13:39pm


Phillip and those who aren't necessarily fans of Madonna as a musicmaker and such- can you at least see that there are many out there who are? (not just mega-fans) The woman and her music fares pretty well on critics/industry features and lists; her music often is regarded as someof the best, as she often is regarded as one of the greatest artists.

Stevie Wonder probably is my favorite male act. I could neve say Madonna is more of a natural talent than he. However, both are among the great artists of our time, and have their own strengths (related to musicmaking, delivery and presentation of the music).

Posted by JR on Monday, 03.23.09 @ 17:32pm


Ok, you guys have tempted me back, perhaps temporarily.

Let me carify a salient point...It is actually me that is back. I haven't posted anything since I said that I had had it with people like Gitarzan, and indicated to Cheesecrop that it was the reason I was leaving. Someone either hijaked my name or didn't notice my previous posts. I felt violated by some of the things he said. This imposter has posted so much incorrect and invalid info, I'm ashamed that you all thought he was me.

On a positive note, Gitarzan did admit to his opinions, and apparently had nothing to say about my previous posts, which had stated multiple facts for Madonna's induction (presumably his scroll bar works).

And, a special thanks to Cheesecrop for bringing up some more info, somewhat defending my position.

BTW, Phillip needs to have his ears checked. While Madonna is certainly not one of your better singers, she can hold her own, for the type of music she sings. Lets face it, your not going to hear her singing a Celine song. Of coarse, one need not have a great, or even a good voice to be inducted (just think, Bob Dylan).

Just two more things:

Cheesecrop, who else would I be talking about on a board such as this. I think almost everyone can agree that she is one of a kind, like her or not.

And, disco may have been inspiration for her, but it certainly does not define her. Just because you can dance to a song does not make it disco, and just because an artist releases "dance" albums during their career does not make them a "dance" artist. I happen to hate the album "You Can Dance" and most other remixes of hers. It does tend to demean her as an artist; its probably just away to fill up an overpriced cassette or CD single.

Posted by Jake on Wednesday, 03.25.09 @ 23:37pm


See, I can be critical of her, too. See guys its me: good ol' fact, argument, and reasonable here now.

As usual, Rock On!

Posted by Jake on Wednesday, 03.25.09 @ 23:42pm


"BTW, Phillip needs to have his ears checked. While Madonna is certainly not one of your better singers, she can hold her own, for the type of music she sings. Lets face it, your not going to hear her singing a Celine song. Of coarse, one need not have a great, or even a good voice to be inducted (just think, Bob Dylan)."--Jake

Thanks Jake, I had my ears tested. They ran several tests, and they all confirmed the same thing about my ears: I have two of them. But seriously, folks...

Honestly though, I notice you had to include the caveat "for the type of music she sings." Now granted, I wouldn't WANT her to sing a Celine Dion song. I can't stand that Canadian harpee either. But when the "type of music she sings" is so heavily technocized (cut me some slack here on the making up words bit), just about everyone can "hold their own." A few exceptions, but not a lot.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 03.26.09 @ 15:48pm


"On a positive note, Gitarzan did admit to his opinions, and apparently had nothing to say about my previous posts, which had stated multiple facts for Madonna's induction (presumably his scroll bar works)."- Jake

Yep, I had read your previous posts, and quite frankly I'm not convinced nor am I going to argue the point any further. Opinions aside, I'm sure I've read the same things, heard the rumors, etc... that everyone else has. With a lot of people who comment about her, the bad seems to be overlooked...frequently. now, unless you follow her around all the time (highly unlikely) your resourses are probably the same as mine. The only difference is you think she is significant and relevant in the reshaping and history of modern music...I don't. Now, pop culture is a different story (of course, John Holmes and Linda Lovelace had cultural significance, too), but music is just a part of that and I don't think music and music alone is one of her strong suits. The powers that be deemed her suitable for induction, and I obviously have to live with it, doesn't mean that I have to like it or agree with it. I think it seriously puts into question the "committee's" ulterior motives and credibility. There are simply too many far more deserving artists out there, and the sad thing is THEY KNOW IT!!!!

Far be it for me to chase anyone off of this site. I just disagree, and try to leave personal attacks to a minimum. If you simply can't stand what I say...don't read it.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 03.26.09 @ 16:58pm


You guys just don't get it, You can not compare too different art forms and say this is better or greater same as i cant say my soul my being is superior then yours we are all, if genuine acts of nature and are true to what we r we are equals my soul or sense of music is no greater then yours Madonna does her thing which others have no match on as they do their thing which madonna has no match on I personally prefer madonna as a creator of music, she was 1st that bridged disco to punk, in pop way

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:08pm


who else could create so many perfect pop records with depth and fun, she puts magic an excitement onto a live stage, a force 2 be reckoned with, Who else has given us such a diverse variety of visionary styles and sounds? Madonnas unique a living legend whose genius for evolution through her music has kept the world entertained an enthralled and always wondering whats next? Thats the thrill u never know? What u do know is that whatever she does will be challenging exciting but always moving

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:14pm


madonnnas a natural intuitive singer with great intonation and she puts her soul and a vulnerable quality that u cant copy,, i know ive heard many try,her shows r impeccable, the public r never wrong,what u have to understand is that she has substance people forget that, cause like bowie madonna visualizes her music so that her best work seems equally designed 4 the stage and screen not just the jukebox u may c her navel on front sleeve but what u hear is as close 2 art as pop music gets

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:21pm


U cant speak of music if ur just a crazed fan, as that means u talk shit. Thats the point Madonna is an inventor of music, still relevent and always creating, all music critics acknowledge her producing writing and general edginess, her albums have been hailed commercially up until confessions and now and her albums b4 that weren't commercially as successful were put down as an experimental genius as was Music album with some amazing gems of music on them, Rolling Stone and critics all over have hailed her music

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:24pm


And mate if u questioning what philosophy she has behind her music then u have never listened to what is real madonna music except her commercial famous stuff,hidden away are golden gems of Music.

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:27pm


"she was 1st that bridged disco to punk, in pop way"- Kanye Trent

WHAT???? I mean, really...what on earth are you talking about????

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:39pm


what makes madonnas music profound and compelling, besides her excellent hooks and state of art sound combining r'n'b with pop,the original punk disco pop queen,it is the personality underlying the songs, the passion and the necessity behind the emotional journey upon which she is embarked. Like a heroine in a serial, she seduces with the drama of her evolution and her life force and frequently is rivaling POP ART

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:42pm


hat makes madonnas music profound and compelling, besides her excellent hooks and state of art sound combining r'n'b with pop,the original punk disco pop queen,it is the personality underlying the songs, the passion and the necessity behind the emotional journey upon which she is embarked. Like a heroine in a serial, she seduces with the drama of her evolution and her life force and frequently is rivaling POP ART

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:42pm


LOL

Posted by Mozart on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:47pm


mad is fab powerful on stage, Madonna u see the truth of her on stage, and what u see is soul that she s a force of nature, MADONNA on each album u feel her natural evolution and diversity

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 22:48pm


Im not trying to be clever, Music is art, Music is an expression and if somethings genuine you feel its beauty Madonnas music is genuine, sometimes too u feel the want factor, but thats the point thats what music is experimenting,art can be expressed in various ways, through singing, production, understanding 4 a hook, lyrics, the Voice and presentation, Madonna originates from pop r'n'b disco
Madonna is an innovator,shes still contemporary, Experimenting and progressing forward she may be playing bit safe sometimes lately but when she is she still doing it she madonnaing it up thats the point!!!!!! madonna still raises questions in culture,and madonnas music even from the beginning has always been an attempt to convey something deeper and if u saying that not ur wrong mate

Posted by Kanye Trent on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 23:05pm


"Im not trying to be clever,"--Kanye Trent

Well, you succeeded in that aspect.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 03.27.09 @ 23:22pm


Madonna's innovation in popular music is an aesthetic category called sublime. There's only one other artist that has excelled in this category and his name is Michael Jackson

Posted by MojoK on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 06:58am


To do sublime in modern music on a regular basis is something unheard of, that's why Michael Jackson and Madonna are by far the best solo artists and performers in popular music. They are not the best singers (vocally), the most trained dancers or most skilled musicians, but (overall)they are the best artists

Posted by MojoK on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 07:31am


There's only 3 music acts in the whole rock n' roll history that have had the "touch of God", artists of genius:
Madonna, Michael Jackson and Guns n' Roses (Axl Rose)

Posted by MojoK on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 07:50am


There is nothing "sublime" about Madonna's music. "Submariner" is more fitting.... it's music for women who enjoy finding themselves under every sailor in the fleet.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 08:50am


No doubt that with Madonna, it's about the full package- others may do one apect better, but no one takeds everything and delivers it like she has- hence, her important status. I mean, some people may not think much of her musicmaking abilities or like her music that much, but they overlook the fact that she and her music are acclaimed and given plenty of props.

She'll always have some detractors (everybody does, after all), but she is a force in the history of music that cannot be denied- despite how some would like to do just that. :) Like I said, for my own personal enjoyment, I don't get the appeal of some acts who are very acclaimed or highly regarded. But I don't deny that their status as one of the great artists of our time. People should at least try to take that approach, rather than simply refusing to see why an act is as respected and highly regarded as they are.

Posted by JR on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 09:36am


JR, you're pretty much right. And I don't have a problem with Madge being in the Hall, and if people were really only discussing her as a "total package" kind of ordeal, I wouldn't bother as much. But hailing her music itself as otherworldly... that demands accountability.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 09:45am


Stevie Wonder's Master Blaster is on of his best songs.
Still when compared to one of Madonna's best songs, on the Ray Of light CD, it does sounds like some poor gypsy music on drugs:

Madonna "The power of good bye"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e61wg1D10J8

This is what I call Madonna's greatness, unrivaled at its best.
And she should have gotten that Grammy for best album of the year in 1999, not that Lauryn Hill and her rap crap

Posted by Kanye Trent on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 14:10pm


Lauryn Hill sang about:

"Girls you know you'd- better, watch out (Watch out!)
Some guys, some guys are only about (About!)
That thing, that thing, that thing! (Thing!) "

that "thing", can you believe it, that thing, so profound, Grammy material for sure, lol

whereas on Ray Of Light Madonna sang about quintessential problems regarding human condition etc. Those *ucking Shammies, it's simple unbelievable, also years before ROL Madonna should have gotten at least some Grammies for best short video etc., at least...
What a bunch of CRAP!


Posted by Kanye Trent on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 14:35pm


Master Blaster is better than anything Madonna put out ever. And that ain't even his best song. Check out "Place In The Sun" for pure poetry of lyric, not to mention a soulful but catchy melody. Or how about "Higher Ground" for social and spiritual yen?

Qualitatively, Stevie Wonder trumps Madonna any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 14:48pm


Call it Kanye Trent, MojoK, WallPURG, quasi-Jake, etc...just don't forget to throw "clueless" in there somewhere.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 15:33pm


Stevie Wonder is amazing, for sure. I wouldn't say Master Blaster is better than anything Madonna ever put out, songs like The Power Of Goodbye, Secret, Take A Bow, You'll See, Like A Prayer, La Isla Bonita are pure magic as well. Unlike you Gitarzan I've been trying to give an objective opinion on things, but anyways both Stevie Wonder and Madonna are for sure excellent and unique artists

Posted by CluelessReloded on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 21:45pm


If your opinions are objective, I'd hate to see it when you're biased!!! I make it very clear why I have a problem with Madonna being inducted on the first ballot, and no one (and I do mean NO ONE) gives anything resembling a rational reason why she should've been given preference over a very long list of artists who have had more of an impact on rock M-U-S-I-C than she has.

Ask yourself this...15 years from now, looks are gone (by either nature or too much plastic surgery), and she's no longer able to do that sort of "visual" show...is her music going to carry her??? Heck, she had to lip-synch most of her recent Denver concert...it would've been impossible not to (not improbable, physiologically IMPOSSIBLE). Everyone knew she did (except for certain fans who are in denial). What happens when all of the visual "fireworks" are no longer relevant or appropriate? It'll be interesting to see.

there's a reason why certain artists' music is timeless...it stands on it's own.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 22:08pm


I'll give Madonna half-credit for at least trying to sing on "Take A Bow." That's about as stripped of techno-effects as she got and showcased her vocal prowess, but even that fell short of the mark for range, sustainability, and dynamics. "Secret" is every bit as annoying as that damn Suzanne Vega song, "Tom's Diner." "La Isla Bonita" does absolutely nothing for me. And what made "Like A Prayer" almost bearable was the chorale behind her. She gives a nice crescendo buildup for them, but it's the background singers that carry that song. Not her.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 22:16pm


"techno-effects'? lol, all artists have that, even the most hard-rock ones. A guitar riff is basically a "techno-effect", if you wanna put it that way
Secret is an annoying song? lol, talk about "understanding" soulful and meaningful music, which you Gitarzan clearly lack the spirit of
A song like Ray Of Light is amazingly sung by Madonna, a vocal performance that not many of the more "established" and "recognized" musicians can sustain. Her voice is amazing in that one, awesome, awesome song. And I could go on and go on, but it's worthless explaining the obvious to retardinhos like Gitarzan.
Why Madonna deserves her place in RRHOF, maybe more than any other artist? Because she has proven herself to be one of the most talented musicians and performers ever

Posted by CluelesReloded on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 23:48pm


" A guitar riff is basically a "techno-effect", if you wanna put it that way"

If you're serious about that statement, then you're as "Clueles" [sic] as your name says. There's a world of difference between the reverberation of a string on a vibraphone and the programming of a computer. One requires musicianship, the other requires knowledge of how to use a computer (or program a synthesizer).

Gitarzan didn't say "Secret" was annoying, I did. It is. It tries too hard to be ominous and haunting, and ultimately fails at being either. And there is no soul in that song. If you think "Secret" is soulful, then you have absolutely no clue what soul is. Sam Cooke, Ray Charles and James Brown are spinning like truck axles on blocks by the sheer stupidity of that statement. Seriously... "Secret" soulful? Soul of what? Shallow Silicon valley denizens and club-dwelling rave monkeys?

"Ray Of Light" is a catchy song, but not because of Madonna's work on it. The electronic tones are arranged such enough that it makes a catchy melody. Credit the producers and remixers for that... none of whom are Madonna, btw. But even that's not a great song.

Sorry, still not seeing the "talented musician" aspect. Dancer, yes; but not musician.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 01:04am


*spinning in their graves like truck axles...

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 01:07am


"Ray Of Light" is a catchy song???!! Really, like in a song coming from any pop tart outthere? There's nothing catchy in ROL song,lol, that song is a perfectly executed pop masterpiece, from beginning to end

Posted by CluelesReloded on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 01:19am


No, it's definitely better than anything the current pop princesses have out, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it perfect. Well produced, but not quite perfect. But I do respect your reasons for thinking it is. And I just can't bring myself to call anything Madonna a "masterpiece." I'm from the same state that she is, but there's nothing Michigander about her style (except her business savvy). I was 17 when "Ray Of Light" came out, so I should have been in the target market for her at that time. But her music does not speak to my soul. And it is by no means soul music. That's just an egregious warping of a term to the point where it's an incredible misnomer. "Die Another Day" is the worst James Bond theme, imo.

So my calling "Ray Of Light" catchy is actually pretty high praise from me. (To say nothing of the fact there are at least two songs by her I actually like.)


Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 01:57am


Philip...what did I tell ya? First the "fanboys" come across with all this lame crap about her, and if they can't say anything rational, they start with the name-calling...ROFL!!!! I don't know what a "retardinho" is, but it can't be good!!! Coming from this "person", I'll take it as a compliment. Also, even though I'm not into name-calling (much), referring to guitar riffs as "techno effects" is just plain STUPID, no other way to describe it. It's better to say nothing and let people think you don't know what you're talking about it.

Let me tell you who I've REALLY grown to admire. As I mentioned earlier, I saw "Phantom" in Denver about 2 weeks ago...now THAT is singing!!! Could you imagine Madonna trying to sing the part of Christine Daae' (anyone inclined to say she could would be making the most idiotic statement this site hes ever witnessed)? For that matter, could you imagine Madonna trying to top (Tony Award winner) Patti Lupone doing the title role of "Evita"...night after night (no lip-synching allowed)? Before a "stupid statement" is made about the movie, it was pre-recorded and then she...you guessed it...lip-synched it in front of the camera. "Ray of Light"...spare me!!! It's your basic, run-of-the-mill pop song, performed by a so-so singer. But what do I know about powerful and soulful vocalists or guitar playing, for that matter.

Talking about Madonna is at least interesting when discussed with the likes of (the real) Jake...even though he's "had it" with me, and JR. They at least offer some sort of intelligent rationale, which I can appreciate. These other people just say stuff they can't possibly believe and make themselves a target for ridicule.

Cheesecrop...Yes, I know she's already been inducted. The question, for future inductions, is...WHY????

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 09:04am


Listen Gitarzan, I really don't respect you because u're probably one of the webmasters of this site, but questions like your last one can only show that u're either an idiot by chance or an idiot by intention. In both cases, you're obviously mentally ill. I suggest you to ADD OFF and showcase your insipid "Hamletian" questions somewhere else. U're clearly mentally disturbed, so take your problems someone else. I'm wasting time responding to a piece of stinking full of flies garbage

Posted by CluelessReloded on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 12:44pm


"but questions like your last one can only show that u're either an idiot by chance or an idiot by intention"

Which I suspected from the beginning,still I said, let's give it a try, I'm kinda bored and missing a lost love. Please stop with your crap, your pseudo-intellectual tactics don't impress nobody, certainly not me.
Madonna is one of the most talented artists and performers of all time, and that's a fact, regardless of what you or I or others say

Posted by CluelessReloded on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 13:04pm


"Madonna is one of the most talented artists and performers of all time, and that's a fact, regardless of what you or I or others say."

No, that's just your opinion. It's a fact that she's one of the most commercially successful artists and performers of all time, but talented is not a fact.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 13:28pm


I've noticed recently that several people on the Madonna board have stated that they are responding to my comments about her. The last time I put anything on the Madonna page was back on the 16th. I'm not quite sure what's going on here, but I'm being asked to answer questions I haven't asked yet. So...

As of 3/29/09 at 7:35 P.M., I will n o longer be held accountable for any neuroses, psychosis, or undocumented or unrelated forms of dementia amongst the posters on this site. Thank you.


Yours truly,

Norman Bates



Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 17:39pm


What's the matter, "Clueless" (how appropriate is that???), did I strike a nerve? I'm not the one coming on this site acting like a neurotic third-grader. I really could care less if someone like you respects me, but geez, here's a dollar so you can buy a CLUE!!! Like I said before, anyone who offers a rational explaination or argument concerning ANY artists is going to have it returned in kind. You, on the other hand, have to resort to personal attacks because you can't defend the indefensible. The more you try to convince people of her "talent", the more idiotic you sound.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 20:04pm


Gitarzan,

Back away from the keyboard. You must realize by now that there is no rational conversation to be had with these fans that state the artist or band they love is the greatest and/or most talented ever. That is a major red flag and should not even be responded to. The best way to keep these over the top comments to a minimum is to not respond at all.

Of course unless you like having conversations with escaped mental patients that have stumbled onto a computer, then by all means please continue. I have told you in the past that I respect, but don't always agree with what you have to say because it is done so in an intelligent manner. Keep up the good work. It is a little disturbing to see a forum called "Future ROCK Legends" being hijacked by Madonna and ABBA fans but that is the Madonna being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall negative effect.

Keep on Rockin'.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 21:08pm


SpaceTrucker...Well, I do talk to Cheesecrop, but that's a different story...LOL!!!! I think my time discussing "Madge" is done. I've been very clear about my feelings about her and her induction, I really can't add any more, and I think I'm appearing to be redundant. there's very rarely a time when someone offers a rational comment about her (see JR & Jake), and you've been around long enough to know that when you read something that's just moronic, your first impulse is to respond (at least mine is). In this case, it's like trying to teach a pig to dance...It's a waste of time and it irritates the hell out of the pig.

I'll take the time to return the compliment. Even though I don't always agree, I can certainly acknowledge and respect your point of view. Your presentation always makes it easy.

"Gitarzan...and his "Jungle Band"...they're all you can stand, give 'em a hand...Gitarzan!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 21:36pm


Thanks for the compliment Gitarzan, rationality is what I am generally known for (I'd like to think). I can and do see your point of view on her induction (as well as Phillip's). We can all agree on some aspects of Madonna, but clearly not all. The last couple of postings have been a pretty good summary of this board. Incidentally, I too hate those that refer to her as a "Goddess" and "Genious", and her songs as "Masterpieces". I like her music, but I would only call myself a casual fan. My other favorite artists are Eric Clapton, the Doors, Aerosmith, Metallica, Pearl Jam, U2, Cream, and Live. I severely dislike most of todays pop music, especially J. Timberlake (yes, I know that she collaborated with him and that he inducted her into the Hall). I just really hope that he does not get in!!!

Please, do not reply to my post about Timberlake anyone, this is not his discussion board. I only mention him in passing, not to start a new sub-topic on this board.

Thanks guys (and girls?)

Posted by Jake on Sunday, 03.29.09 @ 23:16pm


Even from a technical point of view, Madonna is basically a "soft" rock artist. Many of her songs are constructed upon drums and a bass line, are at their roots "soft" rock songs (e.g. Rain, Bad Girl, Secret, Like A Prayer etc.).
Overall, Madonna's music is an amazing and one of a kind blending of pop, r'n'b, rock and disco

Posted by CluelessReloded on Monday, 03.30.09 @ 10:24am


I'll answer it. No. I don't think "Like A Prayer" is a brilliant song. It's definitely one of her better songs, more dynamic, more challenging a song than most other stuff she did, but I wouldn't call it brilliant.

Beatles songs I would rate better than "Papa Don't Preach" or "Like A Prayer"-- well really all of them. From an artistic point-of-view, those that still apply:

Let It Be
The Long And Winding Road
She Loves You
Help!
There's A Place
And Your Bird Can Sing
In My Life
Girl
Wait
For No One
Tomorrow Never Knows
Any Time At All
Tell Me Why
I'll Be Back
Things We Said Today
Another Girl
I Need You
I've Just Seen A Face
Come Together
A Day In The Life
She's Leaving Home
It's All Too Much
Hey Bulldog
All You Need Is Love
Strawberry Fields Forever

Those are just off the top of my head.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 18:43pm

You know Philip, I have to agree with that essentially all of the music by The Beatles is better than Madonna. For example, I find "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (which you didn't include) to be better than all of Madonna's banal music put together.

P.S. I can't believe this Madonna discussion has lasted this long

Posted by Keebord on Monday, 03.30.09 @ 14:27pm


I have to add that I don't think Madonna is worth the 700-800 comments on this page discussing her

Posted by Keebord on Monday, 03.30.09 @ 14:29pm


Come on gang - I am begging all of you - please don't bring the Beatles up in any conversation with Madonna. She is not even fit to be one of their groupies.

Madonna has had an excellent career as an entertainer and a performer. Her induction is definitely justified as far as the music industry is concerned and I have no complaints about it. But musically, she is the equivalent of every other dance/pop band in the history of music. It is her determination, celebrity and personality that is above and beyond those pop performers who came before her and most likely those who will follow.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 03.30.09 @ 17:11pm


Jake...as it turns out, you and I like a lot of common artists. Now, THOSE are some of the artists I'd like rappin' with ya about. You're cool, always have been in my book. If our "Madge" disagreements were harsh, well, it happens sometimes...nothing personal.

I just added "Round and Round" by Aerosmith to my "arsenal"...always really liked that song. You see, I don't collect CD's, I collect songs!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 03.30.09 @ 19:38pm


"But musically, she is the equivalent of every other dance/pop band in the history of music"

Nope, wrong. To put it figuratively, Madonna's voice and musicality is the standard of excellence for pop music
Not only she is not the equivalent of every other dance/pop band in the history of music, but she is better than 'em all, she's basically the best artist ever


Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 11:12am


Two deserving accolades for Madonna: best artist ever and best performer ever

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 11:16am


To make it more precisely:
Two deserving accolades for Madonna

-best artist ever
and
-best performer ever,(cough)by far

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 11:23am


Nope, wrong. To put it figuratively, Madonna's voice and musicality is the standard of excellence for pop music

she's basically the best artist ever
(CoacellaBoy)

Nope, sorry, wrong answer - but thanks for playing.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 11:31am


Madonna is the best artist ever because, to put it figuratively again, her voice and musicality is the "Pi" (mathematical "golden" number) of popular music

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 11:40am


How fitting that a Madonna fan would think of her as Pi... given how irrational all but Jake's arguments for her are.

But no, I wouldn't call her the best artists or best performer ever. And I don't think Madonna would say that either.

She does know how to put on a visual spectacle of a show. Which makes sense since she used to be a cheerleader in high school. Unfortunately, that also explains a lot of other things about her.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 15:13pm


The visual aspect of the show is one thing (where Madonna's concerts are, also, basically, the best- e.g. Blond Ambition Tour and Confessions Tour, which got each one 1 Grammy)and her unrivaled quality as a performance artist is another thing
As a performer(energy,charisma,spontaneity,improvisation,complexity of moves, choreography etc) she's also unrivaled
As an artist, she has a huge number of quality songs, a very rare feat also

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 15:46pm


Wow - quality songs and stage presense being unrivaled. May I ask this question Coacellaboy? Although I pretty much know the answer, I will ask anyway. Did you ever have the chance to see Queen perform live? If not, then you missed the ultimate showman - Freddie Mercury. His sweat had more charisma than Madonna and he did not need a choreographer to command the stage and audience. As for quality of songs, I have to assume that you have never heard a Queen song either or hundereds of other bands.

Philip - all I can say is thank God for cheerleaders, at least the ones that were around when I was in school.

Now can we please all stop with Madonna - she is already in the Hall. I know, let's discuss those who she influenced - Britney, and a few other throwaways.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 17:16pm


Of course I've seen Queen live, Led Zeppelin live, Stevie Wonder live, Michael Jackson live, Janet Jackson live,Guns live and others
Freddie Mercury's stage performance is basically running left and right (like MJ and Axl), whereas Madonna's is way more internal and complicated and choreographed and others

"As for quality of songs, I have to assume that you have never heard a Queen song either or hundreds of other bands"

Of course i know their songs, since they are one of the greats out there, with Zeppelin, Guns, MJ, Wonder and others.
The real problem here is another one, is that you've not seen concerts like Confessions, Blonde Ambition, Who's That Girl, SS Tour, to see for yourself, that I'm pretty much right
And yes, Madonna's sweat is right up there with Freddie's, an amazing singer and performer for sure

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 18:16pm


" I know, let's discuss those who she influenced - Britney, and a few other throwaways"

Britney was never influenced by Madonna, Britney is one thing, Madonna is another thing, cough, stratosphere

"Now can we please all stop with Madonna - she is already in the Hall."

Yap, you're pretty much right, too much bla bla discussions over the obvious, cough, Madonna as the great artist, performer, musician, icon, innovator of the pop culture and format(maybe the most important), and why not, a great children books writer lol
Peace brothers, just stop bashing Madonna, coz it's really not the case here, there are thousands of other artists more deserving of that honor, but not Madonna, for real now

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 18:28pm


And yes, Pink Floyd's best song (and one of the most profound ever created) is not one of those who have the most views on YouTube, but High Hopes

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 19:01pm


Meaning that Pink Floyd's or Led Zappelin genius, from all female artists, has been more, as surprisingly as it sounds, the most in Madonna, but took other forms and shapes obviously (feminized). That's why Madonna has never been only about "pop" music, but always something else, more profound...

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 19:21pm


more profound...and empty...

Posted by CoacellaBoy on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 19:26pm


Actually, I have seen her live and her live shows all have pre-recorded backing vocal tracks to enhance her live vocals, some of which are in fact lip-synched.

Freddie was not about running around on stage. It was about his presence and command of the audience. Dancing and stage presence are two different things. All you have to do is compare Madonna's and Queen's Live Aid performances to see for yourself. No one could command an audience like him. Ray Davies of the Kinks runs a close second.

And as far as that something else that Madonna possesses; it is called marketing genius. That I will always give her. She made a bold prediction when she performed on American Bandstand. She said she would rule the world, and that I have to give her. She could market herself better than anyone, including Sinatra. Madonna turned the "celebrity form" into what it is today.

But I will say this, in my opinion, if it was not for MTV, Madonna would not have survived more than a year or two. As you say, she is a visual performer; but I think it is in the video and not the live show where she truly shines. Musically, I do not think her catalog will stand the test of time (50 years from now). But her videos just might.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 03.31.09 @ 19:42pm


Probably the only Madonna song I think is really good: 'Material Girl'. Also 'Pappa Don't Preach' is a catchy tune.

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 04.1.09 @ 06:56am


That's an April Fools joke, right? You don't really have shitty enough taste to actually try to pretend she's ever written a good song, do you?

Posted by Paul Bunyan on Wednesday, 04.1.09 @ 10:38am


Lots and lots of critics and such, who prise Madonna, and who probably also sing praises of acts you like- probably have shitty enough taste, too, then, I gather? :)

For her impact, influence, overall package (all aspects related to the presentation of her music) and what she's contributed to entertainment and music- that is why she could not be denied as soon as she became eligible.

Gitar, if we were talking about SOLELY musicianship and the likel, then, no I would say she probably wouldn't be a first-year-of-eligibility no-brainer. But the Hall of Fame isn't just about musicianship solely. Of oourse there are going to be artists who are more revered for their music (while Madonna is a very acclaimed act, there are handfuls of acts who are more acclaimed than her- check acclaimedmusic.net for an idea).

Songs on an album like The Immaculate Collection, I don't doubt, will stand the test of time, as some tracks in the period thereafter.

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 04.1.09 @ 12:23pm


But the Hall of Fame isn't just about musicianship solely. (JR)

You make a good point here, IMO. The issue I have though is that this changes from one artist to the next. I agree that Madonna is more than just her music. There is the visual of Madonna and what that represents. And I applaud that. I don't think her songs have been that strong, although I am a fan of Ray of Light.

I will use Alice Cooper and KISS as talking points.

Most people agree that KISS never was much of a musical band and yet 35 years later, they can still sell out a week in Madison Square Garden in just a few short hours. To me, that says this band is more than just the music itself (like Madonna). And I believe this is the point you are making about her (I could be wrong). Yet KISS may very well never be inducted because of the prejudices some have against them. And we know for sure that they have recorded one industry standard (RnR All Night) which will last the test of time.

Now let's go to Alice. KISS might not even exist if it were not for Alice. Hell, many performers, Rock and Pop, including Madonna might not exist if it was not for the groundbreaking stage shows that Alice used to put on. Alice showed that Rock could be visual. We also know that Alice has recorded a couple of everlasting tracks (School's Out and the whole Billion Dollar Babies album). He is credited with starting a specific genre of Rock. And yet, he too has not received this honor.

So I ask, why do you feel they have be ignored and Madonna inducted in her first year?

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 04.1.09 @ 13:48pm


JR...I'm hip to what you're saying. However, I do think before you can be considered for the HoF, an artist's music must be their strong suit, which I don't think is the case with Madonna. There are a lot of great "performers" out there who aren't in the hall. For example, Paul Stanley (KISS) did a stint in the lead role of "Phantom of the Opera" in Toronto with the national touring company a few years back. The critics thought he did okay, although they admit he was way out of his league vocally. What saved him was...his "stage presence". I think KISS is another group whose "stage presence" outdoes their music...their concerts seem to be more of a visual extravaganza, yet they're not in the HoF.

Her induction, especially on the first ballot, will always remain a mystery to me for a number of reasons. I don't think the questions I raise are totally without merit. Whoever thinks it was justified, that's fine...opinions vary.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.1.09 @ 18:39pm


I knew we could find common ground Gitarzan. And, I do agree that there are more deserving artist that could have been inducted first. I was quite surprise when I read the complete list of elegables on this site. But, I think the reason she was inducted so quickly was her gender. Madonna seems to personify feminine power in the music industry, atleast in this day and age. Her rags-to-riches story is another powerful antagonist. She has made some very good music, but usually with controversy (sex) being the driving force. Remember, her first big hit was "Like a Virgin". She defied the notion that women could not be sexual, thoughtful, artistic, and intellegent at the same time: a very feminist ideology. So, it probably was political, atleast on that level. The important thing that I keep reiterating is that she should be inducted into the Hall at some point, in time (which, of coarse, she has now been, a year ago).

Dameon, I hope this might answer your question. Incidentally, Ray of Light is my favorite album by her. The emotional lyrics are top notch, all of which she wrote. My second favorite is "Like a Prayer", same reason. Personally, I think she should always work with Patrick Leonard, she's just so much better collaborating with him.

Posted by Jake on Saturday, 04.4.09 @ 01:51am


Jake, your comment about her gender is interesting, but I don't know how far I'd agree with you. For one, she wasn't the only "token female" on the ballot. Donna Summer was there, too, plus Chic if you count the female singers as part of the group. Not to mention, they could have used Joan Jett And The Blackhearts, Pat Benatar, Janet Jackson, Wanda Jackson, etc. I think gender may not have hurt, but as a force in the world/industry of music, she had the gravitas. Also, she was signed by Seymour Stein. I'm told Madonna wasn't his first choice that year, but artists he signs have a better chance than if he wasn't the one to sign them. I really don't think Depeche Mode will have to wait too much longer.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.4.09 @ 02:55am


Philip,

You missed my point, almost completely. The reason why Madonna was inducted prematurely, before more deserving artist, was that she is a woman, a major force in the recording industry, and started off very poor (its said that she only had about $20.00 in her pocket/purse when she moved to NY city). You see, it is this combination, in itself, which was responsible for her premature induction. I never said anything about a "token female" being the sole reason. FYI, with the exception of Jett and Benatar, the artist you list above probably do not belong in the Hall. What has Janet Jackson done of any importance anyway, "Rhythm Nation" or "Lets here it for the boy" (she seems irreparably trapped in the 80's)?

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 04.9.09 @ 01:42am


The negative rethorics are infesting Madonna's thread again! She doesn't need to prove anything to anyone anymore...
People, get a life! Madonna has proven herself to be an amazing artist one time after another, so shut up! She simply rules

Posted by FanBoy on Friday, 04.10.09 @ 14:46pm


You missed my point, almost completely. The reason why Madonna was inducted prematurely, before more deserving artist, was that she is a woman, a major force in the recording industry, and started off very poor (its said that she only had about $20.00 in her pocket/purse when she moved to NY city). You see, it is this combination, in itself, which was responsible for her premature induction. I never said anything about a "token female" being the sole reason. FYI, with the exception of Jett and Benatar, the artist you list above probably do not belong in the Hall. What has Janet Jackson done of any importance anyway, "Rhythm Nation" or "Lets here it for the boy" (she seems irreparably trapped in the 80's)?---Jake

Jake, first off, Deniece Williams did "Let's Hear It For The Boy," not Janet Jackson. I didn't miss your point at all. And no, I didn't say "token female" was the only reason either. But if "because she's a woman" is your chief argument, I'm gonna say BS. There are plenty of other female performers who could have been placed on the ballot instead of Madonna. And for the record, her induction was not premature. She was inducted the year she was eligible.

I know the Madonna story. She rehashed everything but the dirtiest of details in her induction speech (which while longer, was at least not as boring as JT's speech presenting her). And starting off dirt poor has absolutely nothing to do with her deserving to be inducted. That just makes the story a bit more Algeristic, nothing more.

My point was, and still is, that the fact that she has been a major force in the recording industry has more to do with her getting inducted, regardless of gender, and factoring in gender only explains why you saw her and not the other females listed, all of whom deserve induction, imo. If you want a list of Janet's accomplishments, ask Roy. I'm sure he has nothing better to do.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 04.10.09 @ 22:47pm


Philip,

I can't believe we have a disagreement. If you read my previous posts, I have been defending her induction. I just agree with others, who hold the belief that her induction was too early (but she should definitely be in there).

" And for the record, her induction was not premature. She was inducted the year she was eligible...And starting off dirt poor has absolutely nothing to do with her deserving to be inducted. That just makes the story a bit more Algeristic, nothing more."

If you have read the list of eligibles on this site, can you honestly tell me there aren't more deserving artists that should have been inducted first? Phil Collins, Sting, Alice Cooper, Joan Jett, Sammy Hagar, Heart, Pat Benetar...to name a few. And don't overlook the politics involved with the induction process. Madonna's back-story is controversial, uplifting, and (more to the point)emotional. Atleast, she is, ultimately,where she deserves to be, though.

Posted by Jake on Tuesday, 04.14.09 @ 20:23pm


Sorry Jake. I misunderstood what you meant by premature. I was thinking in a technical sense.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 13:50pm


"If you have read the list of eligibles on this site, can you honestly tell me there aren't more deserving artists that should have been inducted first? Phil Collins, Sting, Alice Cooper, Joan Jett, Sammy Hagar, Heart, Pat Benetar...to name a few."

Jake, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, you're probably an alcoholic maybe or use too many drugs
Madonna can only be compared to the likes of Elvis, Beatles, or Michael Jackson, at their best

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 16:12pm


Phil Collins, Sting lol lol

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 16:14pm


mrxyz wrote:

"LOl... I like her more than Madonna .. Britney has a few cool hits !"

Sure you do, sure you do...lol, fuc*ing moron! Gosh, where are these morons grow? Do they have special plantations for these idiots?

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 16:17pm


Fokafar...Mentioning Madonna in the same breath with Elvis and the Beatles is just plain ridiculous. You might know something about her, but you obviously know nothing of Elvis and the Beatles and their cultural impact in their heyday. You call other people "idiots" but don't substantiate anything you say. At least Jake attempts to give some sort of learned and rational comment.

Like most Madonna fans, you're definitely full of colorful metaphors about people you don't even know, though...people who obviously have more knowledge of popular music than you do.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 17:09pm


mrxyz wrote:

"LOl... I like her more than Madonna .. Britney has a few cool hits !"

Sure you do, sure you do...lol, fuc*ing moron! Gosh, where are these morons grow? Do they have special plantations for these idiots?

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 16:17pm


No plantation yet...But we are hoping to be adobted by her so we can all have a better life.. She can show us the way.. Gosh.. wouldn't that be great...

Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 17:29pm


Gitarzan wrote:

"Fokafar...Mentioning Madonna in the same breath with Elvis and the Beatles is just plain ridiculous. You might know something about her, but you obviously know nothing of Elvis and the Beatles and their cultural impact in their heyday. You call other people "idiots" but don't substantiate anything you say"

Rather than "substantiate" the plain obvious to pseudo-scientists and idiotic music and cultural consumers like you Gitarzan, and waste time, and nerves, and really my sense of self-respect, I'd rather flaunt my nicely shaped pussy or sex object in your nose for the whole world to see it, how brilliant and how beautiful it shines, because this is my only artistic, cultural and intellectual response left to morons, or maybe just mediocre human beings, like you, Gitarzan, and others. and in a sense, that's what all that Erotica era was about. Just fuc* off, if you don't like it, get a fuc*ing life, I don't want to relate to jerk-offs like you. I'm doing my thing, for my fans, my public, my own legacy and the mere fact of replying to you,idiotic "critique", cheat chatting a lot of useless little things and crap, would only mean that I'm degrading myself, and for what? No reason whatsoever

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 18:32pm


"Fokafar...Mentioning Madonna in the same breath with Elvis and the Beatles is just plain ridiculous"

No it's not. Or it is, but the other way around as you'd like it to be. Artistically Madonna is way better than them, Beatles don't impress me with nothing, if there weren't for their big sales I'd really say they are pretty much standard and mediocre artists,no inspirational songs, no heart in their songs, nothing. Elvis had several good songs, and that's about it. Led zeppelin also, 5-100 songs, the rest standard
And this is strictly my subjective opinion, I don't care if another 100 persons yell that I'm wrong.

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 18:46pm


Hmmm....musta struck a nerve! Thank you for resting my case for me. If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, then you start with the personal attacks, which don't bother me in the least...I usually don't sweat subhumans as a rule. Maybe if you'd like to have an intelligent conversation about given artists (highly unlikely), you'll change your moniker (so as to not embarrass yourself) and come back. If not, feel free to just go away, by all means...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 18:49pm


It's not my fault that Madonna, as an overall artist, singer, performance artist, has been better than ALL recognized legends out there in rock and roll history. If she's better than all those big greats, than the only explanation is that she is a genius as a performance artist, or the biggest genius, inborn or/and "self-made".
It's not my fault, that from an artistic point of view, The Blonde Ambition tour, is the best tour ever, and other things like that

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:06pm


Dameon, Cheesecrop, & Philip...another day, another "Madge Maniac" pissed at me!! Do I need, like, therapy or something???

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:07pm


If you like it that way, I'll say like you want,Gitarzan, that, to give an example, Bruce Springsteen is a better artist than Madonna,
but the only problem is that he's not, because the huge difference is painfully obvious on Madonna's advantage. I just can't say that, because it's not true. you just can't convince me that he's better than Madonna, because Madonna outclasses him as an artist in all the ways possible
He's a limited artist, whereas Madonna is a way more rich, powerful and substantial artist

Posted by Fokafar on on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:13pm


But that not means that he's not a huge artist when compared to most mortals like us out there or most artists out there, it's just that when compared to Madonna he appears also as ordinary, but only when compared to her

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:16pm


Madonna is a gift from God... That is why she was named Madonna,, She sings the holey truth like the angles above... She is the light that all that understand the truth see.. Others as blind that can not see or hear her words.. The world can be saved and Madonna is our earthly savor..that an the Dalai Lama ... 2 lights 1 truth

Posted by Godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:19pm


That's not an example, that's your opinion. If you look back on this page, you'll see that I've given several OPINIONS on why I don't think she's "all that", with very few intelligent responses given along the way (JR and Jake being exceptions). To me, she's a direct contradiction to what a HoF inductee is supposed to be, which causes me to rethink exactly what the criteria is.

I will say this...and it's a matter of obvious fact...there's never been an artist as successful as she's been at self-promotion. She always finds a way to stay in the public conscience, and let's face it, more times than not it has very little to do with her music. Her "music" seems to be just a footnote to what makes the phenomenom called "Madonna".

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:27pm


"Madonna is a gift from God... That is why she was named Madonna,, She sings the holey truth like the angles above... She is the light that all that understand the truth see.. Others as blind that can not see or hear her words.. The world can be saved and Madonna is our earthly savor..that an the Dalai Lama ... 2 lights 1 truth"

Ha ha, good one G.
I you want I'll say that Bruce Springsteen is a better artist than Madonna, but it does sound so dumb, and humiliating, and whatever. Who knows, I'm pretty sure that lots of people really really think so, since they buy his records and supports him, but nevertheless, it's still dumb, i mean, I don't know what to say anymore...

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:32pm


There are plenty of artists that have promoted their music much more than Madonna, so you're wrong there
My real problem with your comments G. is that you seem to showcase your judgments as absolute truth, when they are obviously not, there are many flaws in your judgments, generally speaking

"Her "music" seems to be just a footnote to what makes the phenomenon called "Madonna""

This judgment is retarded, and you know it, and still you say it. You must be a very weird person

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:41pm


"To me, she's a direct contradiction to what a HoF inductee is supposed to be, which causes me to rethink exactly what the criteria is"

It should be about the substance and quality of music, which Madonna has 'em more than most artists. You either
1.don't know her music, all her albums
2.or you know 'em, but why would you have ever known em?

In the first case, you don't know what you're talking about
In second case, she remains relevant, no matter how you take it, or simply you don't know what real soulful music is

In both cases, you don't know what you're talking about

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 19:54pm


"Madonna is a gift from God... That is why she was named Madonna,, She sings the holey truth like the angles above... She is the light that all that understand the truth see.. Others as blind that can not see or hear her words.. The world can be saved and Madonna is our earthly savor..that an the Dalai Lama ... 2 lights 1 truth"

Where "Dalai Lama" fails, Madonna or/and the rock and roll begins, and so on, the eternal cyclic play that is life. So in a way, metaphorically speaking, you're actually right, as contradictory as it appears

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:03pm


On the contrary, I'll be the first to say that my opinions are just that...my opinions. People can take or leave what I say. A lot of "Madge Maniacs" on this page get mad because I simply ask them to substantiate what they say with fact...because they're expressing their views as though they are fact. When that happens, I simply ask them to "back it up"...which rarely happens.

When you speak of a Bruce Springsteen concert, he may not be the best singer in the world, but it's about as real of a rock concert experience that you'll ever see. He gives it all he has for 2-3 (sometimes longer) hours. On the other hand, a Denver music critic said it would've been "physiologically impossible" (not "improbable") for Madonna to dance around like she did at a recent concert and still sing like she wasn't even winded. That means one of two things...she was either born on Krypton, or she had "help". Now, I don't know about you, but paying upwards of over 100.00 a ticket to watch someone work out and lip-synch is like paying 54.95 for a Wrestlemania pay-per-view...paying an inflated price for something that's phony.

If you think my "opinions are "retarded"...so what??? Do you think what "Godsavethequeen" is rational?

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:06pm


fokafar, can you even speak in a comprehensive manner? how can we even begin to take you serious when we can't even understand what you are saying? most of your comments are just a bunch of gibberish.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:12pm


What's up, Brian?? Here I am, celebrating my 1000th comment...on the Madonna page. The "Rock Gods" are going to strike me down by shocking me with my own guitar...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:17pm


G., behind it all, you are very shallow, unlike you think you are (but that happens to a lot of people, most have a better opinion of themselves than what they really are)
The fact that you don't understand why she must lip-synch here and there in her concerts (though, suprisingly, most of the times she actually sings live) just shows, again, to make it short, how shallow you are, or ill-intentioned.
Your stupidity is really becoming tiredsome now, I'd laugh at it, most do, if i wouldn't know, that, as ugly as it is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those. That why many don't get Madonna, because they are idiots, mass idiocy
If I were her I'd never would have sung live in a concert, moreover after several years of career and some millions of dollars i would have quitted the music biz, because it's not worth it

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:23pm


Hey Gitarzan, how do all these doofuses keep finding this website and spew out all of their stupidity on us?

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:27pm


LMAO.....you people are truly like a broken record, you can't think of anything intelligent to say, so you resort to personal attacks (most people do when they're losing an argument). After that, the more you comment, the more ridiculous you sound.

One thing we do agree on, though...I wish she would've quit the music business a long time ago. Come to think of it, maybe she did, and is just primarily into the "visual" aspect of it now...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:32pm


You are stupid Gitarzan, because you think you get Madonna, but you don't

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:33pm


OUCH...that hurt!!! If you're an example of someone who "gets" her, I'm glad I don't...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:44pm


ou are stupid Gitarzan, because you think you get Madonna, but you don't

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:33pm


He is not stupid.. He just has not felt the GLORY and the holey light that Saint Madonna gives to this god forsaken planet...If not for her.. this world would be without beauty or the true form of perfect art. Her voice transcends all that is pure and true..She is the way.. she is MADONNA
Forgive him for he does to see

Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:46pm


Hey Madonna fanboys and fangirls - get over yourselves; please.

Gitar - if you stop talking to them, they will go away.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:52pm


Dameon...I know, I feel like a magnet to that stuff sometimes. There's just something about stupidity...!!!

I gotta either get more sleep or drink more beer...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:55pm


"OUCH...that hurt!!! If you're an example of someone who "gets" her, I'm glad I don't..."

See, I am right, you (really) don't get Madonna, which is not something wrong in itself, it's not like you have to, as long as you're happy and OK. Like you said, one man's medicine is another one's poison, or stg's along the line

But that doesn't changes the fact that you don't get Madonna.

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:09pm


is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those. That why many don't get Madonna, because they are idiots, mass idiocy
If I were her I'd never would have sung live in a concert, moreover after several years of career and some millions of dollars i would have quitted the music biz, because it's not worth it

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 20:23pm


Well said my friend !! You must be one of the chosen ones of pure understanding . A disciple of the light... She has to keep singing! It is her lot in life, Without her ,the world would be doomed.. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is well aware of her spiritual task.. Even the Pope knows. She is Cleopatra, She is light, She is truth, She is beauty, She is Joan of Ark ,She is Georgia, She is Old man River, She is Material Girl . She is, She is...Madonna has and always will be . As she has been for 100,000,000 light years .She shall return . She is the one for this time..and the time before and after..

Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:10pm


"Your stupidity is really becoming tiredsome now, I'd laugh at it, most do, if i wouldn't know, that, as ugly as it is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those"

The accurate quote was:

"stupidity is, [...]as ugly as it is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those"

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:16pm


Or even more accurate,

stupid stupidity (stupidity that thinks about itself it's so smart) is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those. exactly the case for people like Gitarzan, who're bashing Madonna while being so sure upon their stupidity

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:22pm


Regardless of how accurate the quote is I have a better one "stupid is as stupid does"

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:23pm


Your stupidity is really becoming tiredsome now, I'd laugh at it, most do, if i wouldn't know, that, as ugly as it is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those"

The accurate quote was:

"stupidity is, [...]as ugly as it is, is the biggest force in human history, much stronger than love or hatred and other things like those"

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:16pm



Now Now My brother, my friend.. Where would Jesus be without the money lenders in the temple or the roman tax collector... Joan of Ark without the Burgundians.."FORGIVE THEM THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND"

Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:23pm


Fokafar..."stupid stupidity", Hmmmm...Thanks for clearing that up!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:27pm


I actually think this is one person with multiple personalities commenting on this page and they are all deranged.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:28pm


I mean all the fanboys that is.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:29pm


"Fokafar..."stupid stupidity", Hmmmm...Thanks for clearing that up!"

You're welcomed Gitarzan, you'll still stupid and you'll continue to be so, I predict, for the rest of your life.You have no choice, neither of us do...
The only chance for you to break out from you're own stupidity, is to buy Madonna's latest album, Hard Candy, and make sure you do it legally!

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:40pm




I mean all the fanboys that is.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:29pm


You are forgiven.. Madonna loves ALL and all that LOVE Madonna forgive the foolish blind that have not yet heard the truth... We will be here when you finally hear.. until then Madonna loves you!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:41pm


Fokafar wrote:
"Fokafar..."stupid stupidity", Hmmmm...Thanks for clearing that up!"

You're welcomed Gitarzan, you'll still stupid and you'll continue to be so, I predict, for the rest of your life.You have no choice, neither of us do...
The only chance for you to break out from you're own stupidity, is to buy Madonna's latest album, Hard Candy, and make sure you do it legally!
Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:40pm


Fokafar I understand your hurt an pain but please for Madonna's sake don't treat the un-lighted this way.. Not everyone is chosen like we are.. Please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I beg you.. for all the children and people of pain . The artist the lovers of truth.... We need to stay in a high place so we can shine on the ones that have not heard her word..
Persevere my brother .. Soon they to shall be believers . Remember Madonna loves all.



Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:49pm


You're welcomed Gitarzan, you'll still stupid

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 22:02pm




You're welcomed Gitarzan, you'll still stupid

Posted by Fokafar on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 22:02pm


I wonder if you really understand Madonna

Do forget what she said "To be brave is to love someone unconditionally, without expecting anything in return. To just give. That takes courage, because we don't want to fall on our faces or leave ourselves open to hurt."
Madonna



If you lived her as the true lover of Madonna I wonder if you would think like the way you do...

You could be just a ploy...? "I want to be like Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, and John Lennon... but I want to stay alive. ..

Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 22:14pm


OK...this board has now officially become annoying to read. I'm going to start arguing with other Madonna supporters if I stay longer. Gitarzan, you know my stance, and that I have backed it up with facts (not opinions)a few hundred posts back. The concession I have made is to the fact that there were, in fact other artists that should have been inducted first. These people, like Fokafar, are truely annoying and would be a waste of time to converse with. Have fun guys...if you want to call it that.

Rock On!!
Jake, signing off.

Posted by Jake on Thursday, 04.16.09 @ 00:20am


Well said my friend !! You must be one of the chosen ones of pure understanding . A disciple of the light... She has to keep singing! It is her lot in life, Without her ,the world would be doomed.. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is well aware of her spiritual task.. Even the Pope knows. She is Cleopatra, She is light, She is truth, She is beauty, She is Joan of Ark ,She is Georgia, She is Old man River, She is Material Girl . She is, She is...Madonna has and always will be . As she has been for 100,000,000 light years .She shall return . She is the one for this time..and the time before and after..



Posted by godsavethequeen on Wednesday, 04.15.09 @ 21:10pm
--------------------------------------------------
"She is... She is... She is..."

She is capable of causing her fans to spout off intensely on websites as well...

Oh, and btw, I didn't take too kindly to that whole "without her the worl is doomed" scenario... that's my department! Everyday I get up, but on my cape, and go flying off to save the world, & you have the guts to list her alongside me! HAH!

I've never seen her ducking into a phone booth when the need arises! Maybe for some spare change, but...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 04.16.09 @ 05:59am


Jake...hey, I'm still good with your stance on this. You don't get on here and unleash personal attacks or generally act stupid...which this is more about than Madonna. Besides that, if I talk to these people again, Dameon is either gonna beat me or, worse yet, think I'm as stupid as they are!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 04.16.09 @ 07:17am


Trying to have a musicial conversation with a fanboy/fangirl is useless and basically the same as hitting yourself in the head with a 10 pound sledge.

But let's give Madge her due - she did pledge $500,000 to L'aquila Italy to help rebuild after the Earthquake. And that is nothing to bitch about.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 04.16.09 @ 08:41am


Dameon...I surely can't do anything but give props to anyone who extends a helping hand to people who've experienced something as traumatic as an earthquake...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 04.16.09 @ 19:05pm


"Dameon, Cheesecrop, & Philip...another day, another "Madge Maniac" pissed at me!! Do I need, like, therapy or something???"--Gitarzan

Nonsense, but you do need to work on your people skills apparently.

And a shower couldn't hurt either. lol.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 04.17.09 @ 23:31pm


Madonna is easily the most important figure in popular music since the 1960s...MADONNA, THE BEST GENIUS AS IN PERFORMANCE ARTIST?

Posted by Gavroche on Tuesday, 04.21.09 @ 16:36pm


815 Post.... Damn !!!! To hell with personal feelings... You've got to give credit where credit is due. Go Miss Ciccone !!! Madonna is great.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Tuesday, 04.21.09 @ 17:48pm


Gitarzan seems a real expert in popular rock so respect for him, just that his opinions on Madonna are very negative, Madonna is the queen of pop

Posted by Gavroche on Wednesday, 04.22.09 @ 14:12pm


Madonna is very great

Posted by Gavroche on Thursday, 04.23.09 @ 18:09pm


Even if you are a fan of Madonna you can't say she belongs in a rock hall because she is not a rock musician. I can take nothing away from the fact that she did have many hit singles, a huge impact on pop culture, and influence outside rock music( even if I personally don't like any of songs), but the name of the hall is not "The Popular Music Hall of fame" it's called "The Rock and Roll Hall of fame". For those who argue jazz, bubblegum/pop, rap, etc. are rock, let me say the following; Rock music is not defined by popularity, rebellion, or influence on outside genres of music. It is defined by it's own music and the people who made it when it was a young genre like Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, The Beatles and later when it branched into subgenres. Whether Sabbath, Purple, and Zepplin with heavy metal or Pink Floyd with progressive rock. Those acts like Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, Grand Master Flash, Run DMC, etc. have had an impact on music that can't be ignored, yet since they are not rock acts they should not be in a hall, that by it's name, only inducts rock acts.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 04.23.09 @ 20:08pm


Your definition of " pop " music is biased.
"It is defined by it's own music and the people who made it when it was a young genre like Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, The Beatles and later when it branched into subgenres. Whether Sabbath, Purple, and Zepplin with heavy metal or Pink Floyd with progressive rock"
When you go to a record store, music store, whatever, those exact bands you named are listed under the " pop " catagory. Because.. they were received by large amounts of people, air play, top 40 whatever.. that makes the pop(ular ) music.
Metallica since the black album is considered POP, because at the time of that release, they were received by larger amounts of people, made top 40, MTV Videos, ect ect. Madonna is really do different. Take another name you mentioned, Michael Jackson.. he is known as the king of pop, we know that.. but look at how long he was seen on television, heard on the radio, ect ect.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 04.23.09 @ 20:23pm


The term "pop"...short for "popular"...that covers a pretty broad area of music.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 04.23.09 @ 20:28pm


To claim rock and rock and roll are the same, or that rock is the only true kind of rock and roll, is absolutely preposterous. The term 'rock' didn't exist until the mid 60's. By then, rock 'n roll already dispearsed in all kinds of subgenres. Soul and 'contemporary' pop (and with them, funk, disco, hip-hop, etc., even techno) are just as much descended from the rock 'n roll period as metal, prog or punk.

I hear more of Little Richard and Chuck Berry in Prince than in Yes.

Posted by The_Claw on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 01:06am


Madonna and Metallica I say are the best rockers

Posted by Gavroche on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 07:24am


Gitarzan is tha best rock expert, popular music critic that ever existed. He is amazing, but his sharp and objective outlook on artists sometimes turns into negative criticism towards some very talented artists like Madonna. Nevertheless, Gitarzan is an outstanding critic with outstanding knowledge on popular music. He should also be inducted in tha RRHOF for perpetuating rock with his rock knowledge, expertise and efforts in clarifying the real criteria and values in tha rock era, reminding the true paradigm that beckons and sustatins the rock legendary pleura )::::

Posted by Gavroche on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 07:36am


"He [Gitarzan] is not stupid.. He just has not felt the GLORY and the holey light that Saint Madonna gives to this god forsaken planet...If not for her.. this world would be without beauty or the true form of perfect art. Her voice transcends all that is pure and true..She is the way.. she is MADONNA
Forgive him for he does to see"


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Posted by Gavroche on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 08:34am


Why don't you all just give it a rest already. Yeah, yeah, we all know. Madonna is the Sun and we all revolve around her and her awesome talent and beauty. Do us a favor and go buy yourself a Beatle album.

Man, you all know how to ruin a persons weekend.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 08:57am


Behind Madonna the amazing singer and unique performer, hides an Artist Of Genius, the biggest artistic genius in popular music and generally one of the biggest geniuses in the history of human kind

Posted by Gavroche on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 09:21am


I agree with Gavroche..She may even be our worlds new SAVOR The Eve of the garden ...Even the Pope frears and trembles in awe at her words of truth..The Dalia Lama spiritualy bows when her name is spoken.. She is the true ageless wisdom of perfect light ..She is is everything and nothing...the Alpha Omega. Only her modisty and perfection hides her true reason why she is among us,,,We are all blessed.. Everyone has the right to hear her opinion..

Posted by godsavethequeen on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 09:42am


Everybody comes to Hollywood
They wanna make it in the neighborhood
They like the smell of it in Hollywood
How could it hurt you when it looks so good

Shine your light now
This time it's gotta be good
You get it right now
'Cause you're in Hollywood

There's something in the air in Hollywood
The sun is shining like you knew it would
You're ridin' in your car in Hollywood
You got the top down and it feels so good

Everybody comes to Hollywood
They wanna make it in the neighborhood
They like the smell of it in Hollywood
How could it hurt you when it looks so goo

Posted by Madonnaisbiggerthanrock on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 09:46am


I lost my memory in Hollywood
I've had a million visions, bad and good
There's something in the air in Hollywood
I tried to leave it but I never could

Shine your light now
This time it's gotta be good
You get it right now
'Cause you're in Hollywood

There's something in the air in Hollywood
I've lost my reputation, bad and good
You're ridin' in your car in Hollywood
You got the top down and it feels so good

Music stations always play the same songs
I'm bored with the concept of right and wrong

Everybody comes to Hollywood
They wanna make it in the neighborhood
They like the smell of it in Hollywood
How could it hurt you when it looks so good

Shine your light now
This time it's gotta be good
You get it right now
'Cause you're in Hollywood
'Cause you're in Hollywood
'Cause you're in Hollywood
In Hollywood
In Hollywood
In Hollywood

Check it out, this bird has flown

Posted by Madonnaisbiggerthanrock on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 09:48am


Soad cover Isla Bonita

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b_XubGXvyM&feature=related

The voice, the bass, the audience,the pain in Daron Malakian'S voice, F**KING AWESOME

Posted by Gavroche on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 10:59am


I think that Gavroche, Madonnaisbiggerthanrock,godsavethequeen,are each a 3rd of the same fanboy. Really dude - get a life.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 11:38am


So Madonna has sold like close to 200 million albums worldwide and over 100 million singles (~110 million to be more accurate, physical and digital), while being with Warner Music Group, the biggest american music company, producing over 2 billion $ from music sales alone

She grossed from tours over 1 billion $ (if her old tours are adjusted for inflation), working with Live Nation and other American touring companies

That a total of over 3 billion $ that Madonna generated from music alone. If we take 1 third of that total in taxes, she generated

over 1 billion $ for her country USA,

having sold and toured more internationally than in her homeland
Madonna is amazing, for sure

Posted by Gocipoprtup on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 12:44pm


think that Gavroche, Madonnaisbiggerthanrock,godsavethequeen,are each a 3rd of the same fanboy. Really dude - get a life.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 11:38am


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please don't put my name in with those .. They have no idea about her true mission.. They just care and point to her record sells and such. That means nothing....!!!
They are blind to the TRUE MADONNA ..
Forgive them for they do not understand.. They maybe the lost flock... lost and blinded in human earthly foolish facts .. They may find the truth of the "true Goddess" but.. IF it be Gods WILL they will hear and see her real beauty .... Where there is life there is HOPE!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 13:05pm


Excuse me A.R first let me say that in my comment I said that I take nothing away from the impact and success of Michael Jackson and the other artists I mentioned. All I said is that they are not rock musicians. Second the relationship between rock and pop is basically like the relationship between a square and a rectangle. A square will always be a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square. A good rock good might someday be remembered as a great pop song, but a good pop song will not always be a rock song. Pop music predates rock music and to the person who said the word rock did not exist until the '60s is sadly mistaken. The term rock was African American slang for intercourse and first used in Trixie Smith's " My Baby Rocks me With one Steady Roll" in 1922. It was later used to describe the sound of this new music created by what would become the first rock artists. If these genres are all the same as some people say then lets induct Metallica into a hip-hop hall of fame or induct Led Zepplin into a disco hall of fame. You see that would make no sense what so ever. If there was a hall for those pop, hip-hop, jazz, disco, etc. artists then they would be inducted, no questions asked. Since there is not, the hall shouldn't let people of outside genres in. Do they let baseball players in a basketball hall of fame? The answer is no. And like I said before if you are a fan of those artists I say there is nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make them rock. I like Barry White ( Yes I'm for the most part a metalhead and I just admitted I like Barry White), but just because I like him doesn't mean he is a rock artist. So people please read this and hear my point out. Thanks.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 13:32pm


The term POP is short for POPULAR music.. that ranges from Metal, Classic rock, country, Disco, hip hop, punk, ect ect, many factors play into the whole " POP " music.. MTV, Radio Play.. it becomes POPULAR.. or pop music. The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, Metallica, Black Sabbath, The Doors, The Kinks, Madonna, Justin Timberlake, My Chemical Romance, U2, The Monkees, Rod Stewart, Deep Purple, Kiss, Meat loaf, The Eagles, are just many many in the " pop " catagory, because it is POPULAR music.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 14:08pm


There is only one Madonna and her name was Mary. She gave birth to the Christ - end of conversation

Posted by whatever on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 16:59pm


A.R did you actually read my whole comment? I said that a good rock song could be remembered as a good pop song, but a good pop song is not always a rock song. Yes the bands you mentioned are all popular music, yet only a few of them were also rock bands/musicians. The hall was suppose to be ment for only the rock bands. And judging by your response in failing to say Madonna is a rock musician I think that you and I both know she is not. I am not denying she sold many albums, became very popular, and left a mark on music. All I am is saying is that she, Michael Jackson, etc. are not rock musicians and regardless if they left an impact the hall was suppose to be only for that select group.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 18:33pm


Dude Man, how do you know the hall was supposed to be for only rock bands? Were you there on the committee when it was first started and that's what was said? It is called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame not the Rock Band Hall of Fame.

Posted by Brian on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 21:00pm


By it's name Brian. The last sentence in your paragraph makes no sense. We might as well put The Bee Gees in a Country Music Hall of Fame, Black Sabbath in a Hip Hop Hall of Fame, Babe Ruth in the Football Hall of Fame, Charles Manson in the Sanity Hall of Fame, and Howard the Duck in the Greatest Movies Ever Hall of Fame. There's a difference people, non of the stuff above makes any sense.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 22:12pm


Depending on what you define as " Rock " and what defination the committee define as " Rock " If its the use of, actual instruments IE Guitar, Bass, Drums ect ect, then Madonna does have those.. Because she does tour with a live band, and she does play guitar during her shows. and those instruments are on her albums. I understand your point, but the real question is, what is the deffination of Rock that the committee uses, but that really isnt going to matter because any form of rock, if its popular, then its going to be pop rock.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 23:39pm


The committee themselves basically considers any kind of music eligible. Since that is the case they should change the name. Rock music all depends on how those instruments and the vocals sound. A difference in music genres is just as easy to see as the difference between different sports. For instance Lil' Wayne and The Roots play instruments, but they are not rock musicians. Pop rock is a real genre (best example The Beatles), but complete bubblegum music is not pop rock. Listen to classic rock radio because thay never play Madonna, Grand Faster Flash, Michael Jackson, etc. If something is popular we can't just call it rock for the sake of getting that artist in the hall.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 09:01am


They do consider just about any kind of music, but so far, they've pretty much made sure that if they go outside the traditionally accepted definitions of "rock" music, then they make sure that the artists that they nominate did in fact make an impact on rock music. They so far haven't nominated folk artists who only inspired other folk artists. And I hope they don't get into rap artists who only inspired other rap artists. The question to ask is, does the grail serve the Grail King? Did a non-rock artist have a serious impact and influence upon rock music? If so, then they should be considered and nominated.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 09:24am


Philip you make a very good point, but has Madonna's influenced any of today's rock bands? Sure she influenced countless bubblegum pop artists, yet I can't think of any rock band influenced by Madonna. And personally I still feel that there are many real rockers that influenced today's bands that the elitist hall will never consider. Instead they will induct the artists that have had no affect on our genre.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 11:11am


I'm sure there have been. Even if the influence was direct. You look at how much electronica and danceable rhythms are becoming more mainstay in rock music (and being cooped up in a Top 40 station as I type this, I can attest to this. But not just harder rock, but R&B too. You look at how sweet the HoF people are on the R&B side of rock (almost to the point where they deny that country artists helped influence its formation), and you cannot deny that Madonna has been an influence on the R&B scene.

I think overall, though Madonna was just the juggernaut. Too huge to ignore. I wished they would have though, even if for just a year. But everyone and their aunt Lilian knew she was getting in her first year.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 11:18am


*Even if the influence was NOT direct, meant to say

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 11:20am


I remember when The Who called themselves "maximum R&B", but since then Rhythm and Blues music changed to the point where it now become border line hip-hop. I agree with you that she is a juggernaut with the genres you mentioned, but electronica and most of today's dance music is not rock. And how can she get in a hall in she is not part of the genre they are ment to honor and on her first year. While it took Black Sabbath, ZZ Top, Bob Seger, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc. years to get in. And lets not forget all the bands who are still not in like Deep Purple, Moody Blues, Judas Preist, Journey, Genesis, Rainbow, Thin Lizzy, Heart, Chubby Checker, Guess Who, Iron Maiden, and those are just a few names.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 11:37am


Well, again, to them R&B is rock 'n' roll. But you also neatly overlooked the 80s and 90s rock scene. How much Madonna had to do with that, I don't know, but you can't overlook how important she was on the rock scene or to other bands besides those who are around today.

And I also said earlier that electronica and dance is now a part of rock music today. Listen to the mainstream, if you've got a strong stomach. Nickelback, Metro Station, etc.... yeah we hate them, but they're the big names and their music does incorporate dance/electronica. And that's because, in large part, to Madonna. It's like sampling and hip-hop. It may have taken a little while to come full circle but the music that has been influenced by rock is now feeding back into rock and influencing it.

Except for Rainbow, and maybe Thin Lizzy, I agree with all those you listed. I don't know enough about Rainbow or Thin Lizzy, but "Jailbreak" and "The Boys Are Back In Town" shouldn't be enough to get TL in.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 11:56am


If Madonna is not considered " rock " music.. Then the only thing that comes to mind is the committee took in her popularity, album sales, concert sales.. Because they try to induct one female artist a year. I do no remember who else was on the 08 ballot ( female wise ) but I can probably guarentee you that she had more sales ect ect than the other artists ( female ) on the ballots.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 12:05pm


Sigh. It's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not the Rock Hall of Fame. You seem to think there's no difference between those two, Dude Man, but you really have to give any proof that it is. Rock is only one of many genres that came after the big rock 'n roll revolution of the 1950s. Now why should that one genre be the only true genre?

And no, 'Rock' never was slang for intercourse. 'Rock 'n Roll' was, however. Notice that one word 'Roll' in "My Baby Rocks me With one Steady Roll". And it was 'rock 'n roll' that became the term to describe that type of 50s music you described, not 'rock'. From the 50s on, that music developed into many kinds of genres, and not just rock. Early 60s pop music is heavily influenced by rock 'n roll, more than the 'popular music' from before the 1950s. Just listen to the music of Phil Spector, the music written by the people from the Brill Building, The Beach Boys, girl groups like The Shirelles, The Crystals, The Ronettes. Soul is nothing more than rock 'n roll mixed with gospel and r&b. And from that point on, the evolution continues.

Your comparison with geometrical figures doesn't hold, Dude Man. Genres are no rectangles and squares. Genres are fluid, influencing one another, hybridizing even, in a continuous stage of evolution. Their meanings are even continuously changing and are different from one person to another. That is at least the first lesson I learned taking 'genre theory'.

The great thing about the Hall of Fame that it takes the rock 'n roll revolution of the 1950s as a starting point, and describes the development of music from that point on. And the entire scope is taken, not that one branch that happens to share a word with its progenitor. Sure, it's not perfect, some branches are getting too little attention, but saying only one branch is the true branch is ridiculous.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 12:12pm


"There's nothing wrong with pop smarts. The Beatles had pop smarts. The Rolling Stones had pop smarts. The Ramones and Blondie had pop smarts. Nirvana had pop smarts. The Velvet Underground even had pop smarts. Bands that had limited commercial success have made it in (The Velvet Underground, Leonard Cohen, Ramones.) Other important bands at the fringe of success will make it in (Sonic Youth certainly will.) I'm not against the idea of pop music (Green Day.) I am against artists that just dumb down the substance and impact of their fore bearers, leaving nothing but sophomoric, generic music (NOFX.)"

Amazing comment



Posted by Madonna is not tall on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 13:47pm


Anaother good observation on rock and roll music/ popular music is how the big tours, after making it big, have always ruined the quality of the future music for different bands or even turnished them appart (Metallica, G'N R, Michael Jackson, and many others), with very few exceptions, like Madonna if I may add. After LAV album and tour she came with a better album and songs (True Blue, WTG), then again with even better music (LAP, TIC), then ROL was her brill album as a mature artist. I can see it as moving against the current in a way, while most were leveaing their best jams behind, unable to make againg good album at the previous high standards, MAdonna was getting better in the 80's and then the 90's, a sign, at least to me, that she has always really enjoyed what she did, for various reasons

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 13:57pm


I think that not many do realise how exhausing big world tours are for most artists. It seems easy but behind it all it's a lot of hard work and lost nervs

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 14:05pm


Well I can tell I'm not going to win any popularity contest on this site. Where should I start, okay Philip. I don't think Madonna had much to do with the hair metal bands in the 80s and the grunge scene( maybe Courtney Love, but that's about it). And personally I like Nickelback, even if they are very comercial they have some catchy songs and I don't really feel like dancing when I listen to them. Also I don't support sampling, I feel it's taking someone elses music and stealing it because you can't create a new beat. Next I don't really hear electronica and techno on rock radio. This goes to A.R, I agree that's what commitee considered when they let her in, but they're real female rock artists who have not been inducted and should: Heart, Pat Benatar, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, etc. Finally to The_Claw not all '50s music was rock 'n' roll. There wa bubblegum, the last of the major blues artists, big ban, etc. Certain not all of those genres were rock 'n' roll. Rock 'n' roll itself is basically the first era of rock and yes there is slight difference in the sound of those artists and the ones of today because it branched into the subgenres of today. Yet the word itself is still in popular use with the later successors of it. With your "genre theory" it sounds like you think monkeys will evolve into birds next. Don't believe everything the critics tell you and the fact you call the hall "great" that fustrates me. I see dozens, no hundred of people everyday on sites like this asking for thier favorite rock artists to be inducted. This dictatorship, yes dictatorship, it has same qualities that make a ditatorship. The general public hasno power over what happens and it does even listen to what we want to say. It doesn't listen to us the little people and in the process has insulted the careers of some of the greats. It almost seems pointless for myself to even say, but I will and so will many others who hate this establish just as much. I was gald when The Sex Pistols called it, "a piss stain" and when over 200 Kiss fans protested it. And for something as important as this not to care about our opinions makes me sick. Have a nice night all. Yours truly, Dude Man. P.S I ment to say does not even listen to what we want to say.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 14:15pm


Another quality is being a highly gifted creative artist.
Most singers have no creative ideas,and those very few that have em, don't really know how to make 'em "real", to make 'em work. Cher belongs in the second category, but you always gives you that feeling: Hm, not really.

Madonna is not tall and most macho (and bias) entertainment critics tend to diminuish her achievemnts, but it's really not the case here.
Kate Perry, Rihanna, Beyonce, Justina Timberlake, Christina Aguilera & Shitney Spears, have all cited Madonna as their idol and big influence or whatever, and you can see the influence in the music and music and videos. the fact that they all fail to match Madonna's unrivalled sense of entertainment and good taste is another story, only in my opinion, of course

Robbie Williams said in 2005, I guess after the EMA's (MTV European Music Awards), that she (Madonna) makes all of us look like amateuers (the performers that sang that night) and I guess he was not far from the truth

Madonna is a huge popular artist and entertainer but because she is not tall her achievemnts tend to be somehow disconsidered. she also was a sex bomb and between making music she has often traded love for fame

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 14:24pm


Been following (quietly) the Dude man, elastic man, A.R., Philip, etc. line on pop vs rock and what's getting in or not. Lot of neat ideas.

Claw hit the nail on the head, I think, when he mentioned genres.

"Genres are no rectangles and squares. Genres are fluid, influencing one another, hybridizing even, in a continuous stage of evolution. Their meanings are even continuously changing and are different from one person to another."

Absolutely. I think one of the issues is following the pop timeline vs the rock timeline. I think a lot of folks who grew up w/rock over these many decades percieve (rather wrongly) that pop music cannot work outside of rock now that rock is here to stay. If anything, dance music, beginning w/disco, covered up the fact that somewhere along the line rock lost it's sense of a dance beat. It became a music w/a beat, but one that didn't make you dance (kind of like the more arty, cerebral jazz in the mid & late 50's). No one had reason to complain since rock just kept moving on. Even today I think that all the dance & hip-hop acts have to be a bit concerned that rock just keeps on moving along, independent of them.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 15:25pm


Dude Man,

You are the man. Finally someone else that is in the fight for rock music to be recognized by the stuck up snobs who think they know it all, I speaking of the 30 or so idiots of the nominating committee. I have been an advocate for rock music to be recognized by the hall since day one, well at least the day they started inducting bands and artists that had nothing to do with influence, innovation or the perpetuation of rock music, hell a lot of them don't even play rock music. I'm not going to get into who these bands and artists are, we know who they are.

Even though it doesn't make a difference to their private club that they have created I am going to keep calling for their heads until something changes.

Long Live The Peoples Choice Rock Legends Hall of Fame!

"If the man with the power can't keep it under control, some heads are gonna roll"
Judas Priest

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 21:40pm


Good to see I finally got some support here. Thanks Spacetruck and stick true to your beliefs. Extra points for the Judas Preist and Deep Purple references.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 21:52pm


"I don't think Madonna had much to do with the hair metal bands in the 80s and the grunge scene( maybe Courtney Love, but that's about it). And personally I like Nickelback, even if they are very comercial they have some catchy songs and I don't really feel like dancing when I listen to them. Also I don't support sampling, I feel it's taking someone elses music and stealing it because you can't create a new beat. Next I don't really hear electronica and techno on rock radio. "

First... influencing rock of the 80s... I am of course referring to the R&B-rock... Prince, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, all before Madonna, but all had some influence on Madonna, and Madonna in turn gave them some influence on down the line. You probably don't consider it rock at all, but it is a piece of rock history. That cannot be denied.

Second... whether or not you support sampling is irrelevant. It is a major part of the game now. And it had its roots and influences and innovators.

Third... what's that one Nickelback song... Nobody Wants To Be Lonely or something like that. Listen to when they go into the chorus, there's electronic dance-y type beats in there.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 22:39pm


here is only one Madonna and her name was Mary. She gave birth to the Christ - end of conversation

Posted by whatever on Friday, 04.24.09 @ 16:59pm





Now you are getting it....? Has she returned..? 2012 is coming...Global warning is GLOBAL WARMING! .. Look to the Stars my Friends look to the Stars..She may be the worlds only true HOPE..!!
Forget her music listen to the messages!!!
FREE YOURSELF and HEAR .. !!! Madonna is here!!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 23:41pm


We all can bless our lucky STARS that she is with us and loves all.. Would it not be something if Madonna, Yoko and U2 were all on the same stage !!..then the BOSS showed up for a song.. !The true cosmic topper would be the Dalia Lama appeared an gave his blessings at the show.. It would be broadcast around the world for billions to hear and see the light !!!
Is the world ready .... let us pray so..!!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Saturday, 04.25.09 @ 23:51pm


Someone has way to much time on their hands lol. Hate to bust ya bubble there, but the Concert for Peace never and probably never will come through since you are referring to Madonna, U2, and Yoko Ono..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 00:21am


"Now you are getting it....? Has she returned..? 2012 is coming...Global warning is GLOBAL WARMING! .. Look to the Stars my Friends look to the Stars..She may be the worlds only true HOPE..!!"- something called godsavethequeen

Ah, yes...GLOBAL WARMING!!! We had 3 feet of snow in Denver last week...in the middle of April!!! That's a sure fire sign of "global warming" if I've ever seen it!!! Some of the world's leading paeleontologists are saying the earth is actually cooling...I might believe them over Al Gore. Either way, when the earth gets tired of us it will simply spit us off, and there won't be a lot we can do about it.

As for seeing the "Kabbalah princess" and the Dalai Lama on stage together...highly unlikely (of course, unless she switches to Buddhism at a whim...which isn't totally out of the question, I guess). Why don't we just invite Tom Cruise, too??? Seeing Yoko Ono on stage is hardly a big deal (unless she brings John Lennon with her...highly unlikely),and I usually don't pay much mind to Bono whether he's performing or not. Now, why would having all these people on stage be such an earth shattering event? As for 2012...how many times has the "end of the world" been predicted??

As Jack Nicholson said in "As Good As It Gets"...take the crazy somewhere else, we're all full up here...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 07:21am


A.R. ...I usually get into a lot of trouble commenting on this particular page...LOL!!!! "Fanboys" don't get the concept that I don't hate her, but simply don't think she's all that relevent, music-wise. I started playing guitar in 1967, and pretty much read, listened, and studied everything I could get my hands on concerning the instrument, not just on how great players played, but what made them "tick"...which probably has a lot to do with my blatant lack of acknowledgement for Madonna...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 07:39am


"studied everything I could get my hands on concerning the instrument, not just on how great players played, but what made them "tick" "

There's a big difference between a SCHOLAR and an ARTIST

One can be the best scholar, hard working, knowing all the music and notes, but still be a mediocre artist
The viceversa is also correct: One can be the best artist, but still be a mediocre scholar, not knowing all the music and notes, riffs etc


what made them "tick"?

Once you're done with being a good scholar (learning guitar, or singing etc), if your a creative ARTIST, you get bored with what you learned and you start to (re-)create, the very things that made you "bored" you make 'em shine, this if u're capable and "have something to "say" "

You take the musical language that you have accumulated and start to create, to re-create, to say in that language "I" as much as you can, putting your qwn input on what you learned

Creative procees comes after acknoledging what you learned and if you got the steam (and resources) you say: I can make this "shit" better

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 10:04am


This is what Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson made with the Thriller album: they made the Motown "shit" better (they gave it a more glamourous, hard core edge)

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 10:16am


This is what Madonna made with her 80's albums: she made that Blondie/Cindy Lauper/Donna Summer/Olivia Newton John "shit" BETTER (she gave it a more glamourous, hard core edge)

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 10:20am


Then in the 90's Madonna started to wonder and ask herself: Can I make that Whitney/Mariah/Celine "shit" better? And she delievered power house ballads like: Take A Bow, Secret, You'll See, Bad Girl, Rin, I'll Remember.

The in 1998 Madonna, after having her first child and quitting smoking (and other toxic vices like too much sex and whoring), started to wonder and ask herself: Ok, I'm a new person, can I make myself better? And she delievered Ray Of Light

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 10:47am


Them with Music and AL album she felt a country then a "folk"/ "Janis Joplin" connection, with COADF a "Motown" connection blended with some Kaballah philosophy,
then with Hard Candy (an amazing album) she recreated Motown again (via Pharell) blended with the more current/hip music (via Justin/ Timberland)

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 10:59am


Wow...wow.. oh wow, can someone say stalker much? and some of those statements are dead wrong.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 11:25am


Oh the Irony of Saint Madonna, Her " Ray Of Light " foundation was deemed delinquent by the state of California, This very foundation donated zero dollars to her " Saving Mawali foundation, But the Irony is...
This very foundation has stock in many corporate companies that spew harmful chemicals and such into the enviorment.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288295,00.html

So much for Madonna being " green " only for money..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 14:43pm


A.R. ... What did I tell you...ROFL!!!! Of course it never dawned on me to try countless numbers of guitarists' styles and hope something of my own dripped off the end of it (not!!!!) Jam sessions with "the fellas" were always great, because you could always say "give me some 12 bar blues in F# and see what we come up with, constantly fooling with amp settings, effects (Which Billy Gibbons once said "One effect is too many, and 100 isn't enough), etc...

It's strange how there are a certain few great players who've influenced countless players, but the only person who wants to emulate Madonna musically is...Britney Spears (LMAO)!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 16:23pm


"Now you are getting it....? Has she returned..? 2012 is coming...Global warning is GLOBAL WARMING! .. Look to the Stars my Friends look to the Stars..She may be the worlds only true HOPE..!!"- something called godsavethequeen

Ah, yes...GLOBAL WARMING!!! We had 3 feet of snow in Denver last week...in the middle of April!!! That's a sure fire sign of "global warming" if I've ever seen it!!! Some of the world's leading paeleontologists are saying the earth is actually cooling...I might believe them over Al Gore. Either way, when the earth gets tired of us it will simply spit us off, and there won't be a lot we can do about it.

As for seeing the "Kabbalah princess" and the Dalai Lama on stage together...highly unlikely (of course, unless she switches to Buddhism at a whim...which isn't totally out of the question, I guess). Why don't we just invite Tom Cruise, too??? Seeing Yoko Ono on stage is hardly a big deal (unless she brings John Lennon with her...highly unlikely),and I usually don't pay much mind to Bono whether he's performing or not. Now, why would having all these people on stage be such an earth shattering event? As for 2012...how many times has the "end of the world" been predicted??

As Jack Nicholson said in "As Good As It Gets"...take the crazy somewhere else, we're all full up here..."

Gitarzan is so wise, he knows many things outside music

Posted by Madonna is not tall on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 16:23pm


Dear Madonna is not tall..
It does not surprise me that so many think it is her record sales and talent ..True through this mediums she can send the message.. As far as Yoko she to is a spiritual angel ,,,John knew it ... !!! Tom Cruise is a spiritual helper for sure.. The Dalia Lama,I am sure understands why her return to our planet in peril is essential ..
It takes these type of "aware ones" of all beliefs and religions {U2 included}for us to transcend to the next level.... Madonna is among US ...REJOICE {gaudēre} "It is Like a Pray"...This is my last message until the glorious awaking. I do not fault you ...Madonna is ..................
Love to all and ALL IS LOVE!!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 21:02pm


"1st level:

Steven Wonder, Madonna, The Beatles, Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, John Lennon

2nd level

U2, David Bowie, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd


3rd level

AC/DC, Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting, Frank Zappa"


Don't agree entirely with that. More like:

1st level:

Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC

2nd level

U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder,The Beatles, Elvis Presley, John Lennon, Led Zeppelin


3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi

Anyways it's all subjective, still at least I gave it my own opinion, you know...



Posted by Ravenstein on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 06:09am


I love lists and I know they are all subjective, but would you all please stop putting Madonna in the same category with The Beatles. Just the thought of it makes most music lovers cringe in pain. Personally I wouldn't list her anywhere near the top, but that is just me.

Other choices were very interesting although I certainly would not put Guns anywhere near the top, especially above Aerosmith since that is clearly Guns biggest influence. And as great as Appetite is, it is noweher near as good as Get Your Wings, Toys in the Attic and Rocks.

By the way, I think you forgot Dylan.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 07:54am


Dear Madonna is not tall..
It does not surprise me that so many think it is her record sales and talent ..True through this mediums she can send the message.. As far as Yoko she to is a spiritual angel ,,,John knew it ... !!! Tom Cruise is a spiritual helper for sure.. The Dalia Lama,I am sure understands why her return to our planet in peril is essential ..
It takes these type of "aware ones" of all beliefs and religions {U2 included}for us to transcend to the next level.... Madonna is among US ...REJOICE {gaudēre} "It is Like a Pray"...This is my last message until the glorious awaking. I do not fault you ...Madonna is ..................
Love to all and ALL IS LOVE!!!

Posted by godsavethequeen on Sunday, 04.26.09 @ 21:02pm


What the Hell?! lay off the drugs man

Posted by Lockloney on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 11:03am


First Level:

Leonard Cohen, Elton John, Chicago

Second Level:

Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Prince, Madonna, "Weird Al" Yankovic

Posted by Roy on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 11:55am


If ALL criteria is taken into consideration- overall artistry, cultural impact, historical importance etc., it should be:
1st level:


The Beatles,Elvis Presley, Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin

2nd level

U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon,


3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi


godsavethequeen, I suspected it to be an alter-ego of someone on this site

Posted by Ravenstein on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 12:18pm


If ALL criteria is taken into consideration- overall artistry, cultural impact, historical importance, legacy etc., it should be:

1st level:

The Beatles,Elvis Presley, Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin

2nd level

U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder

3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi (future inductees), John Lennon

I'm not an expert, this is only my final humble list

Posted by Ravenstein on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 12:23pm


Ravenstein, ACDC and Guns N Roses are 1st level and Rolling Stones are 2nd level? I don't understand, what levels are you talking about here. The levels of true rock legends would go more like

1st level: Beatles, Elvis, Dylan, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, etc

2nd level: James Brown, Buddy Holly, The Who, CCR, Nirvana, U2, Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, etc

3rd level: Now heres where AC/DC and Guns n Roses belong lol

Posted by Jonny on Saturday, 05.2.09 @ 11:02am


Also, you could put Michael Jackson and Madonna in the 1st level just for the gigantic legacies they left for the pop (pop-rock) music world in the 80s and 90s.

Posted by Jonny on Saturday, 05.2.09 @ 11:04am


I don't want to start this whole debate again, but Michchael Jackson and Madonna are not pop-rock. Madonna is just a bubblegum artist and Michael Jackson is a Motown(Jackson 5) and bubblegum artist. We don't need to add the word rock just so they can go into the hall.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 05.2.09 @ 17:16pm


Hey gfdhgf I take offense to that. What did I do to you? I didn't personally offend or attack you.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 08:35am


Dude Man...welcome to the wonderful world of trying to make any sort of informed or intelligent comment about Madonna. If you dare say anything bad or indifferent about her (most of which is probably accurate), the "fanboys" will come out in droves with their idiotic personal attacks (mostly because they don't have anything else rational to say concerning her).

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 09:17am


gfdhgf...I'll admit one thing for sure, you people are excellent at proving my point...LMAO!!! If anything, I'd say my rationale concerning her has been pretty consistent. There have been people who have come on this page and given rational points, and I respect them for it. However, when you start name-calling and unleashing personal attacks, that makes you and your opinion irrelevant.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 10:51am


How come this whole site looks like it's been invaded by Russians? All the writing is in consonants. What happened to the vowels?


Communist propaganda



This looks like Red Dawn...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 16:50pm


Hide the silverware (or, in Cheesecrop's case, the plastic forks)!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 16:53pm


Exactly Gitarzan. I have nothing against Madonna. I was just commenting that she is not part of the genre the hall is ment to honor. We did nothing to deserve to be put down like that.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 17:03pm


That's how those creeps think.
----------------------------------------------
STFU u prick, yr opinion is bubblegum moronic

music, art ain't rationale, is visceral
ur rationale is contradictory, therefore is zero

Posted by gfdhgf on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 09:59am
-------------------------------------------------
Those letters are the same as on the P Diddy site. I'm no big fan of Diddy or Madonna (at least not in a tangible sense) but I know brainwashing when I see it.

Don't worry Dude Man, I got your back...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 05.3.09 @ 17:14pm


joshua says madonna is the biggest artist of all time.. yes there is no denying she is huge but she is not the biggest. elvis was massive and the king of rock and roll. michael jackson is the king of pop,and yes madonna they say is the queen of pop but to say she has achieved alot more than him is ridiculas! dont get me wrong, i think madonna is great, but michael still holds the best selling album in history. he is way up there with elvis, he has also earned over 190 reconized awards, again, something that has never been done by any other artist. so please, whilst you madonna fans would love her to be inducted, and i agree that she deserves it can we not compare her to our king! she is the queen, no doubt about it, but to have a queen you have to be prepared to recognize the king and the king is michael jackson. but hey, where rock and roll fits into this is anybodys guess!! im talking about pop music!! would somebody care to enlighten me??? lol

Posted by jana on Monday, 05.4.09 @ 01:02am


Stop it - Please stop comparing Madonna and his weirdness MJ to Elvis and The Beatles.

This is pretty simple.

MJ's genius - not so much in my opinion. Off The Wall was a great album, maybe the best of its kind. Thriller was Billy Jean and Beat It along with some amazing videos. Quincy Jones doesn't get nearly the credit that he should for this so-called groundbreaking recording. Everything after that has been pretty lame. I am not trying to take away from the Pop icon that MJ is. He certainly helped perpetuate the artform of Popular Music. But genius; I don't think so.

At least I will give Madonna credit for changing her musical styles every couple of albums. But I still say that she is more of a video Icon than a musical one. She is no musical genius.

I will not go into the importance of Elvis even though he is not my favorite. And as for the Beatles - you all know my opinion.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 05.4.09 @ 09:28am


"elvis was massive and the king of rock and roll. michael jackson is the king of pop,and yes madonna they say is the queen of pop but to say she has achieved alot more than him is ridiculas! "

It's not ridiculous, it's a fact

Posted by hjjkhjk on Monday, 05.4.09 @ 11:13am


Thanks Cheesecrop.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 05.4.09 @ 13:04pm


Madona es mui hermosa bom bom she very sweet

Posted by Papichulo on Monday, 05.4.09 @ 18:27pm


You shouldn't talk about people who've already been inducted.

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 05.6.09 @ 06:23am


"If ALL criteria is taken into consideration- overall artistry, cultural impact, historical importance, legacy etc., it should be:

1st level:

The Beatles,Elvis Presley, Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin

2nd level

U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder

3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi (future inductees), John Lennon"

Ya, that's about it

Posted by Ziggerman on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 09:56am


1st Level: Madonna, Michael Jackson and GnR - NO!

Where is the genius of any of these artists? Madonna did not break new ground. If MTV was around when Donna Summer was at her peak, it is possible that she would have been the visual queen of pop music. MJ - what has he done besides Thriller and Off The Wall (nothing)? GnR basically rehashed the first 5 Aerosmith Albums.



2nd Level: Metallica - NO! (And I am a big fan)

No Black Sabbath and Motorhead; no Metallica.

3rd Level: Bon Jovi and Sting - Hell f'n NO!

Sting's solo career has been middling at best and Bon Jovi is not even a third tier Hair Metal Band. They are the Backstreet Boys with guitars.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 13:25pm


I still haven't comprehended what you people mean by "1st" "2ND" "3RD" LEVEL, Do you mean innovation? talent? And what do you base this criteria on? From the sounds of it a lot of people here just named random artists they like and said they were a certain level. Why don't I jump on the bandwagon and name some groups:

1st level

Spice Girls, Weird Al

2nd level

Weird Al, Weird Al and The Archies

3rd level

Infinite Challenge, The Raymonds, and Octagonal Experience

(Just for the record, I made up those last 3)

Posted by Keebord on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 13:51pm


And just in case I offended someone, please do me a favour and look up "sarcasm" in a dictionary

Posted by Keebord on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 13:52pm


1st level:

The Beatles,Elvis Presley, Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin

2nd level

U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder

3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi (future inductees), John Lennon

Posted by Bertas on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 18:36pm


I've tried my best to stay out of this "1st category, 2nd category" thing, but I'm honestly confused as to what everyone's smoking here.
--------------------------------------------------
These are his words -

Posted by Ravenstein on Friday, 05.1.09 @ 12:23pm

If ALL criteria is taken into consideration- overall artistry, cultural impact, historical importance, legacy etc., it should be:
--------------------------------------------------
Now this is my take, I guess:

1st: Elvis, C. Berry, B. Holly, L. Wray, Beatles, Stones, Zep, Ramones, VH, Jackson, Nirvana

2nd: L. Richard, Yardbirds, Sabbath, Clash, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Pearl Jam

3rd: Bowie, Sex Pistols, GNR, Radiohead (effects on now), perhaps White Stripes (though this won't come to pass till several yrs from now)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 18:37pm


If I may throw my "two cents" in, let me add another catagory. If we're talking about musical contribution, let's call this the "zero level"...

zero level...Madonna and any other musically deprived artist you want to throw in there!!!

Where do these people dream this crap up????

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 19:13pm


Pre 1962 - Elvis, Bo Didley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Little Richard

1st Level - Beatles, Bob Dylan

2nd Level - The Who, Led Zeppelin, Yardbirds, Kinks, Queen, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, Beach Boys, David Bowie, Temptations

3rd Level - The Clash, The Ramones, Neil Young, Aerosmith, The Stooges, Black Sabbath, Miracles, 4 Tops

Honorable Mentions - Joy Division, Van Halen, Sex Pistols, NY Dolls, Pink Floyd, V.U., Oasis, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, King Crimson, ELP

No comment on Radiohead - although I have listened to their music and appreciate what they are being credited for, I am just not a huge fan.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 19:20pm


Why are you guys even commenting on this preposterous list of levels that the same guy is putting up on here with different screen names?

We really need to move away from all the Madonna talk, it is getting sooooooo old.

Posted by brian on Tuesday, 05.12.09 @ 20:18pm


1st level:

Madonna,Guns N'Roses (future inductees), Michael Jackson, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin

2nd level

The Beatles,Elvis Presley,U2, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Aerosmith, Queen, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder

3rd level

Prince, Eric Clapton, Bob Marley, Elton John, James Brown, Sting,David Bowie, Bon Jovi (future inductees), John Lennon

Posted by Vokacey on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 04:36am


Madonna can't be compared to The Beatles,Elvis Presley, Madonna is way of a bigger artist.
She's an artist of genius and all that,
something that Beatles or Elvis never were

Posted by Vokacey on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 04:41am


Did someone just say The Beatles and Elvis Presley were not genius and Madonna was? That statement has almost no crediblity at all and never will.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 05:13am


The Beatles= Backstreet Boys of the 60's. They could do no wrong, their music impressed throught their perfect...stupidity, boring dumb lyrics, no voice, no rhythm.
Once they realised how stupid their music is, they decided to took some drugs maybe some magic would come in their dumb formulaic so called "music"...but they failed again. Some stupid sell out "critics", like all are, called that experimentation, progressive/alternative rock lol, opened doors for psyhedelic music, but they failed again, their bulshit music became even more boring, but this time it stopped making sense at all, they were talking (not gonna call their music- "singing") alot of non sense
The Beatles= Backstreet Boys of the 60's
Elvis is not even an artist, he was an idiot singing about:

You're nothing but a hound dog
Love Me tender
and Cruel Love or whatever

he is for kids, the rest of his music is all forgettable,at best

On the other hand, Madonna kicked ass

Posted by Vokacey on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 06:44am


"Did someone just say The Beatles and Elvis Presley were not genius and Madonna was? That statement has almost no crediblity at all and never will."

According to whom? You? Why? Cause you say so? Don't think so

Posted by Vokacey on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 06:50am


Mariah Carey sings about... butterflies
Celine Dion sings about... wait, who cares?
Shania Twain about... ching chang money, lol
Britney Spears...who?

Only real and raw artist left, Madonna, always keepin it real, raw, and blatantly talented and versatile, regardless of record sales, chart performance

Posted by Vokacey on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 06:57am


Vokcey

When you are typing these stupid statements of yours, are you using both hands or is one occupied pulling your pud while drooling over this 50 Year Old has been?

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 07:17am


If so, Daemon, what you'd be? A covet f@g? The only has been is your brain, if ever had one

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 08:28am


Madonna is a self-made b.i.l.l.i.o.n.a.i.r.e.
Who are u to call Madonna "50 Year Old has been"?
Her last album Hard Candy has sold 4 million internationally, having outsold singers, bands, divas half her age, and the album still sells, especially in Europe. She is huge everywhere.

4 Minutes, the leading single from Hard Candy, has sold over 2.5 million copies in USA alone

SS Tour, became, only with the first leg, the biggest tour by a solo musician ever, grossing over 282 million $.

All this at 50. She's also helping an impoverished country Malawi and tried to adopt Mercy. She has a great heart and her efforts should be appreciated and applauded, not rejected with bittermess and cinism.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 09:10am


Daniel - take a spelling class!



Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 09:50am


Vokacey are you kidding me? Did you just compare The Beatles, a band that has sold roughly over one billion albums and influenced countless others, to The Backstreet Boys, a '90s fab of short lived safe pop? Second, "Hound Dog" was a cover song and a great one at that. You said The Beatles have no voice and you think Madonna does?!? Elvis Presley, influenced basically the whole British Invasion and brought rock music more mainstream than it had ever been before. I know people who hate rock music, but still love the Beatles.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 12:43pm


All this Madonna crap is getting worse than all the talk we went through with Coven awhile back. Maybe the site administrator can move it so it doesn't clog up all of the sensible conversations people are trying to have.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 14:34pm


If you want to see and hear pop genius in action, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo

Brian - let the fanboys scream all they want. No harm, no foul.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 14:37pm


one billion albums?
not really, more like 270 million worldwide

"Elvis Presley, influenced basically the whole British Invasion and brought rock music more mainstream than it had ever been before"

These are a bunch of lies, it's not true

Music taste is subjective, you like Beatles etc, Madonna fans like Madonna etc, but you don't tell Madonna fans what to listen or like, as they would never tell you that

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 15:21pm


First off I would never tell anyone what kind of music to listen to Brian because everyone has different tastes and I know not everyone will like the same music as me(I myself get made fun of a lot in School for supporting the bands I like). Second, according to wikipedia The Beatles have sold over one billion albums internationally. And Elvis was a huge influence on the British Invasion(maybe I should have said some of the major acts of it and not "the whole"). I was watching a Who documently on VH1 Classic and Roger Daltery talked about how influenced he was by Elvis Presley. Also John Lennon was a fan of Elvis Presley. Other than Chuck Berry and a few of the other early rock artists I can't think of any other artist more responsible for bringing rock music in mainstream like Elvis, but that's my opinion.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 16:41pm


Dude Man...John Lennon once made the statement "Before Elvis, there was nothing."...that pretty much sums up Elvis' influence. Back in the day, Elvis basically kicked the door down that a whole lot of artists came through who normally wouldn't have reached a wide audience, and that is a key statement in the development of rock. I think you can safely say that if you listen or play Rock & Roll, you were influenced somehow by Elvis...that's a fact. Saying the whole British Invasion was somehow influenced by Elvis really isn't such a stretch. Anyone who doesn't think so should really take a good, hard look at rock history.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 05.13.09 @ 16:59pm


This hasn't had a comment in a few weeks, and I don't mean to bump it up to detract from other discussions, but I agree that continuing to debate this is pointless. And maybe my comments will signal the end of it (well, it's always fun to debate it, so maybe not. hehe)

Any act who gets into the HOF the year he/she/it becomes eligible, there's no debating their impact, influence, etc. etc. on music and everything associated with it.

Those getting in a tizzy over Madonna, and where they see her compared to some other acts- it's fine to have that viewpoint, but understand that she is an acclaimed, revered act who arguably, among female acts, has left the biggest impact on music.

The way some talk, you'd think she and her music haven't received a very fair share of acclaim and high marks. If some really looked and thought about that, then they'd see that their personal dislike is separate from that. It's fine to not be a fan of hers. But, at least acknowledge that music indeed has been regarded as strong, and that she has been regarded as one of the most important, strongest acts since she debuted.

Like I always say, there are some very acclaimed, important acts that I don't care for all that much- but I'll be darned if I'm going to deny that they indeed are highly regarded (both as an artist and the music itself). Believe it or not, there are some people who aren't crazy about The Beatles (I happen to enjoy them), but doesn't take away from the fact that The Beatles are the biggest, most important musical act in history.

Hope I'm making some sense to the anti-Madonna contingency. :)

Posted by JR on Tuesday, 06.2.09 @ 11:35am


JR, that was not the reason why some of us were mad about the inductions of Madonna and several other artists. I said I take nothing away from Madonna or her fans. The reason why some of us were angry is because she is not a rock 'n' roll artist. Some people on this site have different opinions on what is rock 'n' roll which led to a less than pretty debate. Bottom line is that this page is better off dead. Non of the people that were here have since changed thier opinions including my own.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.2.09 @ 13:21pm


JR - I do not discount her importance and relevance to Pop/Dance music, visual impact or high profile celebrity status. She deserves her accolades and her being in the Hall does not ruffle my feathers.

What does bother me is her supposed genius and true musical impact. She doesn't touch Aretha or Tina when it comes to that.

And what truly ticks me off are those who want to put her on the same level as The Beatles or The Who. She is not; never was and never will be. I can name a thousand bands who would not even exist if it weren't for those two bands; the same cannot be said about Madonna. And since The Beatles owe much of their own thing to Elvis, Lil Richard, Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry, then she cannot be on their level either.

That being said, Madonna is in and she gets my props for her place in the history of Popular music.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 06.2.09 @ 17:41pm


It make's me upset. She does have a place in popular music and if the hall was called the Popular Music Hall of Fame than rest assured I would have no problem with her induction, but it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame(Shame). Now can we just end this thing please. We all know how this is going to turn out. The same argument is going to happen all over again.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.2.09 @ 17:55pm


SHE HAS MADE A CAREER OUT OF RIPPING EVERYBODY OFF - HAVE A LOOK AT AISHAMUSIC.COM TO GET AN IDEA OF THE LENGTHS SHE HAS GONE TO TO BE SUCCESSFUL. SHE IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF SPACE AND DOESNT DESERVE ANY SORT OF RECOGNITION AT ALL EXCEPT AS A THIEF. HER FACADE AS A SPIRITUAL ALL-KNOWING GURU AND HUMANITARIAN IS DISPICABLE. IF SHE HAD ANY DECENCY AT ALL, EVERYTHING SHE HAS EARNED SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE SHE HAS STOLEN FROM.

Posted by jules on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 05:30am


Oh Jules - why don't you tell us what you really think? Now you are going to upset all the fanboys and fangirls and they will spend a week here praying at Madonna's alter.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 07:22am


@jules

All BIG ARTISTS HAVE "RIPPED-OFF", IT'S CALLED INSPIRATION...

YOU THINK

LED ZEPPELIN
BEATLES
SHAKESPEARE
GUNS N' ROSES
ELVIS
MICHAEL JACKSON R "ORIGINAL"?

The point is using inspiration and influences and take them to another level, if you have the pipes...

Led Zeppelin r classic exemples of using old falk music and give it a new interesting twist and edge

You think that The Beatles are THAT original? No, they never were, but they stood out, like Madonna

After looking at that site, go take a look at the rock and roll music in the '60s, '50s, '60s, and you'll understand just how much big recognized bands like RS, Beatles, Elvis, Zeppelin just are NOT original or as original as you think

Posted by Daecon on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 10:16am


The Wrath Of God Upon All Madonna Haters!

Let there Be Rock,


Let There Be Pink Rock
Madonna Forever Goddess Of Pink Rock!

All Hail The Queen Of Reinvention!

Posted by Daecon on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 11:29am


"Pink Rock"

Now just I'm laughing my ass off. To say nothing of her being a goddess or queen, though she is highly admired by a great number of queens.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 17:21pm


Philip...you will notice how I've maintained my composure through this latest crisis.

The meds are, in fact, kicking in...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 17:27pm


"you will notice how I've maintained my composure through this latest crisis"--Gitarzan

You've been practicing walking with encyclopedia volumes on your head?

"The meds are, in fact, kicking in..."

Oh well, that was my second guess.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 18:04pm


Actually, Philip... when it comes to the "Mad Donna" I practice walking with an anvil on my head...works wonders for that sort of headache...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 18:20pm


Madonna will be the guiding light in the Darkness of 2012.. SHE IS OUR HOPE. SHE IS THE ONE..!
SHE TEACHES THE ANGLES HOW TO SING...

Posted by godsavethequeen on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 22:17pm


"SHE TEACHES THE ANGLES HOW TO SING... "--godsavethequeen

Too bad she doesn't teach her fans how to spell.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 23:43pm


See what you started Jules!

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 00:39am


"Pink Rock"

"Now just I'm laughing my ass off. To say nothing of her being a goddess or queen, though she is highly admired by a great number of queens."

From a psychological point of view, there isn't a bigger fagot or queen than your average r.o.c.k.e.r out there, so I wouldn't jump too fast to conclusions. A rocker is even worse, he's a sissy always screaming he is the man, which he is not, of course lol.
As a strong beautiful woman, no matter how you take it, Madonna attracts mostly fans that subconciously dream of raping her or have a personal, intimate affair with her. Most Madonna fans are beautiful people inside out, with an intelligence over the average, and strong sexual preoccupations

Posted by Daecon on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 10:52am


lol

Posted by Daecon on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 10:54am


I tried to put a funny commentary about Madonna, with a lil sense of humor, but u people here reallly are some big pieces of garbage, aren't u? Cock suckers

Posted by Daecon on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 11:21am


I'm not sure if you were serious or ironic, but either way, that's one of the most hilarious things I've read.

But in case you're serious.

"From a psychological point of view, there isn't a bigger fagot or queen than your average r.o.c.k.e.r out there, so I wouldn't jump too fast to conclusions."

If your average rocker is Freddie Mercury, then yeah.

"A rocker is even worse, he's a sissy always screaming he is the man, which he is not, of course lol."

At its worst, he's misogynistic. More often than not, though, he's trying to show he's confident... y'know, that he got game, as it is so irritatingly phrased nowadays.

"As a strong beautiful woman"

Madonna, beautiful? Hell no. Strong? Yes, but smell isn't everything.

"Madonna attracts mostly fans that subconciously dream of raping her or have a personal, intimate affair with her."

So do a whole slew of other celebrities. And overnight radio deejays, too, for that matter.

"Most Madonna fans are beautiful people inside out, with an intelligence over the average, and strong sexual preoccupations."

Preoccupation with sex to compensate for lack of occupation with sex. In other words, you've just placed Madonna fans as being as pathetic, or even moreso, than Trekkies. rofl.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 11:26am


Most rockers, I'm not saying all, are ugly people inside out, who can't and never will afford a beautiful girl like Madonna, but, unlike Madonna's fans, who still believe in beautiful things, even if only in fantasy or whatever, they hate on that beautiful Madonna, they hate beautiful women that they can't have and became true strong men, loving other men lol

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:01pm


A rocker is an asexuat (that's why he hates Madonna), who can't love either women, either men lol. He's a rocker lol. A rocker hates love, worships satan, all the bad doings in life,
he is a "mental bully"- like Gitarzan, Phillip etc

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:09pm


A rocker like Phillips only worshipps one god: satan. As a mental bully, his job is to reverse all that he is logic and beautiful. He is envious, shrewd and rotten inside, like his parents. E.g.:

Madonna, beautiful? Hell no. Strong? Yes, but smell isn't everything.

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:18pm


"he is a "mental bully"- like Gitarzan, Phillip etc"- Something called Kuman

Don't know why my name got brought up, but thanks for the compliment!! I guess I'd rather be referred to as a "mental bully" (as someone who is soft in the head might think) than a Madonna worshipping idiot...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:23pm


Who's worshiping Madonna? Not me, but as explained, a satanist like you Gitarzan thinks that Madonna's fans are idiots, but they are not, they just have more life in then, are more Jesus like figures

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:32pm


A rocker has lost ALL innocence, a Madonna fan ONLY partially.
A rocker/satanist HATES what is better than him, a Madonna fan LOVES what is better than him

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:36pm


This Kuman has no credibility. Attacking rock and roll fans for no reason, so just ignore this lunatic Madonna follower.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:38pm


A rocker/satanist is a snake and a parasite, a snake with no vertebra, that feeds on other's life innocence and wealth. He's deformed inside out, for him love is just a game. Could Madonna be a satanist/ rocker also, a female satan?

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:45pm


THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A ROCKER AND A MADONNA FAN IS THAT:

- the rocker/satanist is ugly inside out,he's deranged and deform and loves others deformed like him
- the Madonna fan is beautiful inside out, he's harmonious and more peaceful and loves others harmonious like him

In the day to day battle between then, the rocker/ satanist is the clearer winner, especially on the long term

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:56pm


Any reason you being so offensive to people you have never even meet Kuman?

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:04pm


Where do "lunatics" fit into this equation...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:07pm


There are way more rock fans than Madonna fans, meaning that this world is basically by satan, his laws and followers

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:11pm


Gitarzan= satanist

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:12pm


Dude Man...A lot of Madonna fans act this very way...instead of having a rational conversation, they start in with the personal attacks and mindless drivel. I get attacked simply because I ask them exactly why she should be in the HoF. As you can tell by my previous conversations, I think it just set a bad precedent, not to mention the fact that there are far more deserving (and eligible) artists on the outside looking in. To me, in comparison to the really great artists I've experienced over the years (I'm just about the same age as Rock & Roll) she is largely irrelevent musically.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:14pm


Gitarzan, normally I'd call you an idiot, but as your reply shows, you're clearly a satanist

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:27pm


Today she is more known for Sean Penn, nudity, and controversy than her music. And don't get me started on how I feel about non-rock acts in the hall? The same old debate is just going to recreate itself.

Really satanists and f****ts? That was very uncalled for.

I said it before and I'll say it again, this page is better off dead.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:33pm


I'm starting to understand why Madonna turned to Kabbalah, put a red string on her hand against "The Evil Eye". The level of satanic deeds and people in this world are clearly toxic for the decent/ average Joe out there.

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:37pm


Proof that evil and satan rule the world:

evil always win, because evil can be fought only with another evil. basically everything is evil or in time turns into evil. this discovery is absolutely surprising

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:52pm


Give this Kuman guy a day, he'll tire himself out, and we will never hear of him again.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:03pm


"Today she is more known for Sean Penn, nudity, and controversy than her music. And don't get me started on how I feel about non-rock acts in the hall? The same old debate is just going to recreate itself.

Really satanists and f****ts? That was very uncalled for.

I said it before and I'll say it again, this page is better off dead."

Only possible reply to Gitarzan"

**ck off, you're clearly deranged, natural born old and idot. ou're evil and a satanist. You only like satanic music, rock, not positive, up lifting music like Madonna's

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:03pm


Isn't this site suppose to delete inappropriate comments?

"**ck off you're clearly deranged, natural born old and idot. ou're evil and a satanist."

You have no credibility. Anyone who meaninglessly attacks someone souldn't be taken seriously.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:17pm


Dudester...the only thing I can think to say is the following;

"Evil-doesn't that also include venom-spewing morons????"

To some people, you dare not worship at the altar (which I think is round and made of porcelain) of Madonna....

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:26pm


Well said Gitarzan.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:30pm


Gitarzan

If you give me one argument or aspect in Madonna where she is evil, then I'm wrong and you're right. For me Madonna is the personification of beauty, goodness, freedom, expressing yourself whenever you feel the need to? Maybe I'm wrong?

You're evil Gitarzan, you know evil. Is Madonna evil or good?
Could it be that Madonna is also evil, the daughter of satan also?

Has Madonna been good or evil?

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:37pm


Personally, I could care less what she is, although I guess you could say some of her actions in the public eye could be deemed "questionable". Ask yourself the reasoning behind a lot of her public "actions" (little which have anything to do with music, by the way) and come to your own conclusions. Would they be acceptable if someone else did them? Is everything she does (religion, adoptions, etc...) a marketing ploy? Would her "sexual escapades" be okay if John Q. Public was doing it? Aren't there kids badly in need of adoption right here in the U.S. (whoops...can't be on the "world stage" doing something that trivial)? Anything to be a cultural icon, I guess...!!!

For my part, irrelevence means just that...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 15:54pm


Is Madonna a manipulator or not? Is she real or fake?

Is Madonna evil or not? Is Madonna a whore or not?

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:05pm


Is Madonna the daughter of satan feeding with innocent and pure hearts?

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:09pm


I believe your questions have already been answered...you do know how to read and comprehend, don't you....?

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:09pm


Manipulator--to a degree, yes. Listen to her acceptance speech when she was inducted. She's got good business sense, and that requires being manipulative at times.
Evil--Not particularly, but that doesn't make her a pure soul.
Whore--She herself said losing her virginity was a professional decision. Emphatically, YES.
Daughter of Satan--I have no idea what the feeding bit even means, but no. Madonna is a human being.

No one here is seriously calling Madonna evil; however, there are those of us here who are seriously calling her musically talentless. Which apparently is worse than calling her evil, for some reason.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:14pm


No, my question is like, behind it all, buisness, art, etc,in her deep soul, is Madonna good or evil?

Is Madonna a soldier of God or satan?

Posted by Kuman on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:22pm


Only Madonna could answer that...and don't give her any ideas....!!!

This conversation belongs on the "Coven" page...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:26pm


Is Madonna a virus? Is Madonna a cancer?
Is Madonna good for her fans or not?

Is being a rock fan more positive than being a Madonna fan?

Does Madonna give light to her fans or her light is rotten, also?

Do most Madonna fans turn drug addicts and worse than they were, to begin with?

Is Madonna a deceiver, the ultimate deceiver?

Could it be that Madonna is Satan itself?

Does Madonna give or takes life from her fans?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 16:46pm


Is Like A Prayer a satanic song?

Life is a mystery, everyone must stand alone
I hear you call my name
And it feels like home

Chorus:

When you call my name its like a little prayer
Im down on my knees, I wanna take you there
In the midnight hour I can feel your power
Just like a prayer you know Ill take you there

I hear your voice, its like an angel sighing
I have no choice, I hear your voice
Feels like flying
I close my eyes, oh God I think Im falling
Out of the sky, I close my eyes
Heaven help me

(chorus)

Like a child you whisper softly to me
Youre in control just like a child
Now Im dancing
Its like a dream, no end and no beginning
Youre here with me, its like a dream
Let the choir sing

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:01pm


"No, my question is like, behind it all, buisness, art, etc,in her deep soul,...

Is Madonna a soldier of God or satan?"

I'm not qualified to answer that. Only the one true God can answer that question with complete accuracy.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:07pm


Is Frozen a satanic song also? After Madonna calling for satan in Like A Prayer, now Madonna talks on behalf of satan in her song Frozen:


You only see what your eyes want to see
How can life be what you want it to be
Youre frozen
When your hearts not open

Youre so consumed with how much you get
You waste your time with hate and regret
Youre broken
When your hearts not open

Chorus:

Mmmmmm, if I could melt your heart
Mmmmmm, wed never be apart
Mmmmmm, give yourself to me
Mmmmmm, you hold the key

Now theres no point in placing the blame
And you should know I suffer the same
If I lose you
My heart will be broken

Love is a bird, she needs to fly
Let all the hurt inside of you die
Youre frozen
When your hearts not open

(chorus)
(verse)
(chorus, repeat)

If I could melt your heart

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:08pm


Really now...

You really fooled me Gitar... all those times you told me you had an alter built to Quetzlcoatal - I thought you were a genuine Aztec...

& Philip...

all that talk about Gozer the Gozerian... you told me Vince Clortho, the keymaster, was an icon... just wait till the Ghostbusters hear about this!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:35pm


Rock music and madonna's music moves in the same limits, of the Freud's ID, with the principles of sexual desire and death, Eros and Thanatos

Madonna has been more into Eros, while rock, especially metal is more into Thanatos, death, destruction etc.

so basically music acts like Metallica or Madonna rise on the misery of their fans, moreover thier self destruction

Madonna is not only the icon and idol of her fans, but also her enemy, Madonna is basically a predator that is after her fans or potential fans. excpet maybe for her fans that are, just like her, some kind of predators

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:43pm


Rock music and madonna's music moves in the same limits, of the Freud's ID, with the principles of sexual desire and death, Eros and Thanatos

Madonna has been more into Eros, while rock, especially metal is more into Thanatos, death, destruction etc.

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:43pm
--------------------------------------------------
Uhhh...


Yeah.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:47pm


Cheesie...I'm gonna let you respond to this, while I dig out my VHS copy of the movie "Q" (about a giant Quetzlcoatal nesting in the Chrysler Building)...WHOA....!!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 17:49pm


Madonna is a predator devouring her fans until death, she's The whore of Babylon, so basically being a Madonna fan means you're **cked

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 18:03pm


Madonna - Like It Or Not


You can call me a sinner
And you can call me a saint
Celebrate me for who I am
Dislike me for what I ain’t
Put me up on a pedestal
Or drag me down in the dirt
Sticks and stones will break my bones
But your names will never hurt

I’ll be the garden, you’ll be the snake
All of my fruit is yours to take
Better the devil that you know
Your love for me will grow
Because

This is who I am
You can like it or not
You can love me or leave me
Cause I’m never gonna stop, no no

Cleopatra had her way
Matahari too
Whether they were good or bad
Is strictly up to you

Life is a paradox
And it doesn’t make much sense
You can't have the femme without the fatale
Please don’t take offense

Don’t let the fruit rot under the vine
Fill up your cup and let’s drink the wine


So Madonna, even in her lyrics, recognizes she's a deceiver, a manipulator, she sets the scene for her fans' slaughter:

Better the devil that you know
Your love for me will grow
Cleopatra had her way
Matahari too
Whether they were good or bad
Is strictly up to you?????



I’ll be the garden, you’ll be the snake
All of my fruit is yours to take ?????

You can't have the femme without the fatale
Please don’t take offense ??????


Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 18:18pm


Could it be that Madonna is a dangerous virus who's only purpose is to eat up your soul?
Doesn't she corrupt the purest of hearts?
Isn't Madonna the female satan, the deceiver?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 18:28pm


"Manipulator--to a degree, yes. Listen to her acceptance speech when she was inducted. She's got good business sense, and that requires being manipulative at times"


Really true, but then again, isn't this site some sort of a buisness too, Gitarzan. Kinda is, init?


And yeah, why would Madonna adopt kids from Malawi, and not America or UK? Who knows, Africa is known to be a land rich in diamonds, maybe Madonna and Kabbalah sect, hiding after charity is really after some diamonds in the lands of Malawi

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 18:37pm


In my opinion, the statement "Madonna is Satan" gives her way too much credit

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:07pm


In a world of darkness, could Madonna be the light?
In a world of darkness, can there be light, and that light, what it is made of?
Maybe deceit? Fake light?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:34pm


Can there be light without the darkness as its most intimate source?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:39pm


A better question "Does anyone care?"

Posted by You on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:43pm


Could it be that civilization is a lie and all humans are in fact blood thirty animals and whores, which, in the absence of natural predators, eat each other out, one way or another?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:45pm


In a world of lies, could the truth be a lie also?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 19:56pm


What if "dog" was spelled C-A-T???

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 20:02pm


"What if "dog" was spelled C-A-T???"

What does that mean?

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 20:08pm


All entertainment is satanic but Madonna is one of the most satanic of them all

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 21:27pm


Frozen, Like A Prayer or Like It Or Not, all clear examples of satanic songs, chants

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 09:15am


Gee, I wasn't aware that I needed to be "reloaded"....

What does the fact that Madonna told Dick Clark in an interview that she "wanted to rule the world" tell you...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 09:22am


"What does the fact that Madonna told Dick Clark in an interview that she "wanted to rule the world" tell you...???"

It could show a lot of self-confidence, naivity but also sincerity.
Self- confidence is also the more young (at an early age)equivalent for self-control
But if u're an old man like me, maybe it's satanic, too much self-belief etc
But life is a paradox, even love is a form of hatred. I love that specific girl, meaning I knew others but i didn't like (love) them

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 09:32am


Gee, I wasn't aware that I needed to be "reloaded"....

Lol

Maybe her Sex era was satanic, but she was slaughtered for it, so you don't know what to believe anymore. Her being more sexual after songs like "This used to be my playground" was in a way her being more creative, developing new artistic personas- Dita etc, going for diverifying the brand

Posted by GitarzanReloaded on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 09:36am


The following lyrics are from Madonna's song, Beautiful Stranger...

Haven't we met
You're some kind of beautiful stranger
You could be good for me
I've had the taste for danger

If I'm smart then I'll run away
But I'm not so I guess I'll stay
Heaven forbid
I'll take my chance on a beautiful stranger

I looked into your eyes
And my world came tumbling down
You're the devil in disguise
That's why I'm singing this song

[Bridge:]

To know you is to love you
You're everywhere I go
And everybody knows

To love you is to be part of you
I've paid for you with tears
And swallowed all my pride

[Chorus:]

Da-da-da-dum da-dum da-dum da da da-da dum
Beautiful stranger
Da-da-da-dum da-dum da-dum da da da-da dum
Beautiful stranger

If I'm smart then I'll run away
But I'm not so I guess I'll stay
Haven't you heard
I fell in love with a beautiful stranger

I looked into your face
My heart was dancing all over the place
I'd like to change my point of view
If I could just forget about you

[bridge]

I looked into your eyes
And my world came tumbling down
You're the devil in disguise
That's why I'm singing this song to you

[bridge]

I've paid for you with tears
And swallowed all my pride

[chorus]

It is obvious that Madonna is praising Satan in this song. She sings, "You're the devil in disguise, that's why I'm singing this song to you." Madonna sang this song to the Devil, her "beautiful stranger." Madonna is describing Satan as "beautiful." Her blasphemous words cannot be taken any other way. Considering the godless life which Madonna lives, it is abundantly clear that she is of the Devil. By every definition of the word, "worship," Madonna is worshipping Satan when she calls him a "beautiful stranger." Madonna sings to Satan, "To know you is to love you." I'd say that's Satan worship.

Posted by on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 09:56am


...or maybe her "chameleon" act was just her way of focusing on where the money was. Her music really isn't complex enough to call it something as noble as "a shift in artistic expression". It could also be said that she has never been true to her art...she very rarely "dances with the one who brought her", if you will.

Self-promotion really has very little to do with "performing art for art's sake"...if you know what I mean.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 10:02am


As a whole, Madonna is the best artist & PERFORMER EVER, i THINK. hER LEGACY MAKES THE SIMPLES MORTALS AWE IN WONDER...????

Posted by Moka on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 19:01pm


Moka

I have one thing to say to you

SHUT UP

Posted by Keebord on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 19:21pm


Keebord, don't get'em started.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 19:26pm


Sorry Brian

But there's a "Madonna Fan Site" for a reason. Go and worship her and rant all about how much you adore her over there Moka. This site is meant for serious discussion, not fan worship and mindless drivel

Posted by Keebord on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 19:38pm


Madonna is the best artist & performer of all time


BY FAR.

Posted by Moka on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 22:54pm


Moka...I guess you've never listened to anyone else. Another "FanBoy, Girl, It..."! Oh, Brother!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 06:19am


Blop Blop

Listen dude, she is The Ones, Chosen Artist to heal the world of Pop and Rock. I know, the tribulations were hard, the doubt, the scandal, the tiredness, but her legendary happiness has outshined the drunken haze???

She is the best, the master of performance, letting the juices fly into the right direction, and the bird, the birds, leading the bird above the ground

????

Posted by Foker on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 22:21pm


The struggle against apathy, nay sayers, the controlled chaos, the flowers that never grow, maybe a flower like them, still, much more deserving sword

Posted by Foker on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 22:36pm


Yes man, all bow in front of The Queen Of Excellence, Art and Tribulations

Posted by MadonnasExorrcist on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 22:41pm


They accused her, but she accused them long before. The battle was never to be won, but yet, it was an exemplary battle, years of blood and sacrifice. Beneath the surface, hides a sea of self. Sacrifice.
She raised on the mountains of zombies supporting her, to the last drop, fighting the blindness and seeing through sand
Running, always running to forget,
and to defend The Queen, of broken dreams

Posted by MadonnasExorrcist on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 22:53pm


Because, piece of garbage that you are Gitarzan,

"What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men"

Posted by MadonnasExorrcist on Thursday, 06.18.09 @ 23:19pm


Yep, and she's just as much of a "non-factor" to me now as she was 25 years ago. Funny thing about it is, I love music for the most part, but some of it just isn't worth my time. Like I've said countless times before...no MTV, no Madonna! I think she would've faded away quickly. She needed a visual medium to be heard...and what does that have to do with music???

Calling me names doesn't bother me...just shows your level of intelligence. As far as Madonna goes, I'm going to contiue to call it as I've witnessed it over the years...and nothing about her has changed much...!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 06.19.09 @ 06:14am


The above comments by "MadonnasExorrcist" and "Foker" remind me of Charles Manson and his cult.

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 06.19.09 @ 10:09am


Like I've not said countless times before...no TV, no Ed Sullivan Show, no pretty face John Lennon or pretty face and moves Elvis,

then no Beatles, no Elvis!

I think they would've faded away quickly, without the pretty face and moves.
They needed a visual medium to be heard...videos, countless TV performances and concerts, constant aggressive promotion, the king of this, the fab four of that, the biggest ever!!! billions of records sold and broken!!!, countless biographies and stories and articles,

all those girls yelling "John, John, Paul, Paul"
all that hard work for the their albums' artwork,
the costumes, nice clean boys image, then embracing the fashion of the 60's, the psychedelic imagery,

and what does that have to do with music???

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 03:15am


what does John Lennon's natural quality as a performer has to do with his actual music???

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 03:22am


What does John Lennon's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act,
has to do with his and the actual music???

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 03:28am


What exactly contributed more to the Beatles success, the actual songs or John Lennon's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act?

What exactly contributed more to the Beatles success, Paul or John Lennon's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act?

What exactly do the Beatles remain a more solid and interesting and attractive music act than Elvis,
could it be the actual discography or John Lennon's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act, seductiveness, minimalism and sharpness?

John Lennon's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act?

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 03:45am


What exactly makes Madonna a unique artist and performer when compared to the likes of Britney Spears or Christina Aguillera or any other artist for that matter?

Maybe Madonna's natural charisma, magnetism, ease and composure in the performance act, superior intelligence and understanding of the world, artistic vibe that is transmitted through the actual music?

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 04:06am


If Madonna is not talented, why exactly was her last album Hard Candy awarded for being, on a worldwide level, the biggest selling album released by an American artist for 2008?

If it's only the visual impact, why didn't Naomi Campbell make it in the music industry? She released an album in the 90's, she had the looks, the style, the knowledge of the trends, a good voice to go along with?

If it's only the visual impact, why exactly did Madonna manage to sell over 3.5 million of her latest album worldwide, although looking like shit on her 2 video singles that promoted the album, making it one of the biggest releases (worldwide) in 2008?

If it's only the visual impact, why did she still remain relevant worldwide between 40 and 50 years, still selling overall TENS of million of albums worldwide in a late age?

Questions, question that Gitarzan is not able to answer, because of the wall

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 04:21am


Could it be that people like Madonna, Michael Jackson or Lennon belong to the same breed, artists of genius with a combination of higher mind power and seductiveness, a danger being as they evolve into mature persons to not fall under the weight of their own artistic genius and aftermath disillusion?
Could this be the reason why shallowness is more preffered and promoted and accepted?
Questions that continuously haunt the humble fans

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 04:55am


MJ's lyrics in the song "Stranger In Moscow seem to point in that direction", of the artistic genius trapped in his own perception, fountain of restless confusion:


I was wandering in the rain
Mask of life, feelin' insane
Swift and sudden fall from grace
Sunny days seem far away
Kremlin's shadow belittlin' me
Stalin's tomb won't let me be
On and on and on it came
Wish the rain would just let me be

How does it feel
(How does it feel)
How does it feel
How does it feel
When you're alone
And you're cold inside

Here abandoned in my fame
Armageddon of the brain
KGB was doggin' me
Take my name and just let me be
Then a begger boy called my name
Happy days will drown the pain
On and on and on it came
In the rain, and again, and again
Take my name and just let me be

How does it feel

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 05:01am


Kupi - Your first 3 or 4 postings we're very good, and well thought out. Then you went berserk. Still though, for the sake of it I shall attempt to address the issue of Madonna as seriously as I possibly can for once. I know I'm not Gitar, but just hear me out.

Your referencing to visual qualities is quite true. Two points to consider. First, when Presley broke, a great deal of America was still w/out television. I have no exact figures, but I'd say there still had to be about 35% of the population w/out the boob tube. W/the Beatles it's somewhat less, but still perhaps 10%. These would have been the severely impoverished people of the time. In that regards, it was still necessary to be an audio artist first, then a visual one.

Now I have no issue w/visual artists. I am willing to bet you lived through the majority of MTV's critical time, aka the 80's and 90's. Well, I did as well. I very much DO understand where you come from in terms of videos, so there's no real issue there. This is pretty much how I sum up Madonna. First off, you are right in saying her music did change over time. I don't really believe it changed much, but there is a diff. in something like "Lucky STar" and the "Ray of Light" album. The real issue is that Madonna really was a figure of a particular time and place. Her real moment was from 1984 or 85 till about 1992. It's amazing how old Madonna got in the mid-90's. I can still remember seeing her running around in a black ress and doc marten boots, trying to remain hip when alternative rock shoved her out of the spotlight. She became irrelevant really fast to a younger crowd, and by the end of the 90's she had pretty much become a figure for middle aged secretaries to worship. No offense, but middle aged secretaries are not where the heart of rock & roll lie. Since then, she has basically become a media figure, getting hype simply for being herself, w/all the glories in the past.

Don't get me wrong, she DID have a moment. This I do agree with. It's just her actual moment was so, so long ago, and precious little of her output from 84-92 translates anywhere beyond the dance floor. You say listen to the music. Well, listen to it. Go listen to "Dress You Up", say, against something by Mariah Carey, or better, Beyonce. Where is the link? LISTEN TO IT AND ASK: WHERE IS IT? SERIOUSLY. IT'S JUST NOT THERE.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 05:41am


"Go listen to "Dress You Up", say, against something by Mariah Carey, or better, Beyonce."

Beyonce? Lol, she's blend and boring same league with Britney and Mariah, she's no comparison to Madonna as a whole, Madonna has better and more numerous better, diverse and "modern" (futuristic, ahead of their time) songs than all of them. All Madonna contemporan artists seem and r dated compared to her, she has an ethereal twist in her songs and performances. Madonna's "American Life", though not well received commercially, has some masterpieces which all of the artists mentioned could only dream of

About her peak period, you forget that her biggest selling album was released in late 1990, The Immaculate Collection, and the bulk of its close to 30 million worldwide sales came in the 90's and 00's, not in between 1984-1992 (the biggest selling GH album of a female artist, ever)
While in USA, if the numbers r to be trusted, her success fluctuated, worldwide she remained in terms of consistency the biggest selling American music act outside her native country.
Relevancy? Her US leg of SS Tour was the biggest grossing American tour for 2008, with over 100 million $ grossed, to give an example
In 2008, 4 Minutes became her 37 Top 10 hit, selling over 2.5 million units in US,surpassing Elvis to hold the all time record for most top 10 hits in history, though her music has been forbidden for years on radio
Hard Candy was awarded the best selling American album for 2008, to be later surpassed by Lil Wayne, still note the huge difference in age and huge following that Madonna has in Europe and rest of the world compared to all the other American artists, older and more new

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 07:20am


"Don't get me wrong, she DID have a moment"

Sorry, but you DO know that she is the biggest selling female artist EVER, and only Beatles and probably Elvis have sold more records (worldwide) than her?

You probably mistook this Madonna's thread, the biggest performer ever, with Donna Summer's who had her mommment

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 07:24am


Madonna's "American Life", though not well received commercially, has some masterpieces which all of the artists mentioned could only dream of...
and will always dream of,
oh, the butterflies, the rainbows, the heroes, those emotions and visions, where they all went?

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 07:31am


In Elvis and the Beatles heyday it was much harder to have an impact or reach the masses...they did it anyway. MTV shoved "Mad Donna" down our throats 24/7 for years. Without that medium (visual) she would've been nothing. As far as album sales go, you can't even get that right...go get yourself educated.

To most Rock purists, she is simply a stain on the history of popular music. She was lucky to have her "moment"...the longest "15 minutes of fame" I've ever seen. So, you go celebrate her career (elsewhere, hopefully) because you'll never convince most people on this site of anything otherwise...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 07:40am


MTV shoved "Mad Donna" down our throats 24/7 for years.

- Not necessarily a good thing, over-exposure is never good commercially, even artistically
- Madonna and other amazing artists/entertainers made the glory era of MTV, and promoted artists that otherwise would have never got a chance (not the case for Madonna)

To most Rock purists, she is simply a stain on the history of popular music

-This is a lie, coz if Paris Hilton is a stain, and Madonna 1000 times the better artist, then Madonna can't possibly be a stain, also

In Elvis and the Beatles heyday it was much harder to have an impact or reach the masses...they did it anyway

-The bulk of their commercial success (quantity) came decades after they stopped as active music acts, anyway. And no, it was easier, being the most talented blues rock white acts clearly helped, to put things in the right way, and perspective. They were given all privileges

She was lucky to have her "moment"...the longest "15 minutes of fame" I've ever seen.

Doubtful, as Madonna is the most talented (popular) artist and performer ever, and a very skilled musician

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 09:03am


"She was lucky to have her "moment"...the longest "15 minutes of fame" I've ever seen."

This is also EI LIE, BECAUSE:

MADONNA IS THE EPITOME OF STARDOM, HOW A STAR SHOULD BE, MADONNA HAS BEEN THE STAR.

Ya i know what you're thinking, it's not Angelina Jolie

Plus Madonna is a phenomenon of nature, don't know how did she do it, sustaining a career at the highest levels of pop excellency for over 25 years it's outstanding, a colossus of will and good bacteria

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 10:13am


Kupi..in terms of Elvis and The Beatles, you said: "The bulk of their commercial success came decades after they stopped as active music acts." Sorry to inform you, but this is NOT the case. You clearly didn't experience Beatlemania, because if you had you'd realize NOTHING surrounding Madonna comes close to it.

Posted by Bingo on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 10:17am


Elvis and The Beatles sold more albums (not sure about singles, probably not), after they stopped as active music acts then during their active years, because of the amazing legacy, huge influence and switching of the music format (vinyl, than cassette, than CD).
There was a Madonna mania, she filled those stadiums pretty darn nice, if you ask me. Imagine if in about 1965 naked picture with John Lennon lol would have surfaced in the media, gainst consent, like in Madonna's case, that mania would have been more moderate and lacking in potential developments and bitchy judgmental critiques

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 10:35am


Ewww Gitarzan, you use the word "rock purist" like it's a good thing! Off course a rock purist wouldn't like to see a popstar in the history of popular music, because for a rock purist the history of popular music is mainly the history of rock music, with a couple of artists added whose aesthetics come close to rock aesthetics (f.i. dominance of the guitar, emphasis on quality in live performances and albums). The opinion of a rock purist is not an objective one, except if he can set aside his preferences.

Nobody can have a 25-year long career without some talent. Especially since Madonna still sells, even though MTV hasn't been a music video station for the last decade. That can't be her only appeal.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 10:38am


Having her naked (pre-Madonna)pics published in the media and seen by the whole world was I bet a traumatic experience for both Madonna and her public, and potential fans.
Between 1984 (Virgin tour)/ LAV album and 1987 (WTG tour, later BAT tour)/True blue album, Madonna experienced probably the biggest switch in one artist' fan base (she adopted, became more raunches to attract the oppsite sex in her evil claws lol).
If most most of her fans were in the beginning wanna be little bitches, in 2-3 years her bulk of the fan-base became the horny boyz- future lovers, future gays, future rockers

Posted by Kupi on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 10:48am


I have two suggestions for the hall of shame.

1. Just Change the name- I would have no problem if it was called "The Popular Music Hall of Fame".

Or

2. Make an "Outside Influence" category- They have an "Early Influence" category for the blues/country artists that helped create rock n roll. I doubt Madonna had much to do with rock n roll, but I'm sure there are real outside influences in rock n roll.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 11:06am


Dude Man, I'd think it would be best to rename it "The Music Hall of Fame." There are so many non rock and roll acts in the Hall anyway. Besides, why does Rock & Roll even need a "Hall of Fame?" Leave "Hall of Fames" for people like Madonna for their crazed fan to worship. "Hollywood hype" like mrxyz would say is what seems to find itself most commonly in the Hall of Fame anyways while true artistic experimentation in music is ignorantly pushed aside (think about this for a second, why has the inventor of the Moog synthesizer for example, not been honored?)

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 11:19am


Apologies for the grammatically incorrect run on sentences. I should proof read better.

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 11:24am


I agree with a name change. "Rock and Roll" is too confusing and probably not entirely appropiate, and "Fame" is not even one of the criteria. Only "Hall" seems to be right.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 11:32am


Claw...didn't mean to startle you with that phrase...probably not the right choice. I've always thought that music videos were a nice little tool to sell records, but I never thought they represented an artists' heart and soul. Picture Madonna without MTV for just a moment, would that body of work lasted? "Holiday" and "Lucky Star"...spare me!!! They were right up there with "Makin' It" by David Naughton and "Instant Replay" by Dan Hartman...cut-rate disco, just awful crap. If there were no MTV, she would've faded into oblivion. She's a product shrewd marketing and the most important outlet to that was...MTV (because no one I knew felt any heat from what they heard from her on the radio).

As for the phenomenom that was Elvis and Beatlemania...we'll probably never come close to seeing the likes of that again, for a variety of reasons. Shock value was an important part of it, and no one gets shocked by much of anything anymore. Funny thing about it was they were just doing their music, there was no ploy in any other way to get attention. Madonna is deliberate, I don't think she's done anything on impulse her whole career. If you don't think she knew about those nude photos, you're horribly naive...of course she knew.

As for the HoF, I agree that it should be referred to as the Popular Music Hall of Fame, but then there would be some HUGE ommisions, and think about how far one could go back with that. They should've just stuck to Rock & Roll, after all, that's what it's CALLED!!!

As for me being a liar, Kupi or Stupi or whatever you're going by now, all I have to say about your half-baked claims is this..."WHY DON'T YOU PROVE IT?". I just give my opinions or relay what I've seen, heard, or experienced over the years...you, on the other hand, just spout nonsense as if it were fact. In other words...

"Put up or shut up...!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 13:32pm


Gitarzan, you speak the truth my friend.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 15:07pm


Wow, that was really low on behalf of Charles, whoever that dude might be
Regardless of the ramblings around here, Madonna remains the most important artist in pop culture
Her album "American Life" is better than any album The Beatles have put out. Though one of her lowest selling recordings, it remains one of the best pop recordings ever, a masterpiece really.

Songs like


Nothing Fails,
Nobody Knows Me,
Easy Ride,
I'm So Stupid
Love Profusion
X-Static Process
Intervention

R all masterpiece songs, some of the best psychedelic jams and music ever, simple in their structure but capturing that unique essence, the emotion there reaches ecstatic levels, rivaling artist likes Pink Floyd or The Beatles at their best,
Madonna is not credited at all for the genius artist that she is. It is, I say, revolting!

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 16:35pm


You're kidding, right? Mentioning Madonna in the same breath with the Beatles is revolting. She'll never be held in that high of esteem (Except by a few "individuals").

One thing you have to remember about the Beatles and Elvis...they not only changed music, but popular culture as well. The way whole generations interacted, dress, etc... could be traced to them. People will be talking about those times for decades to come. Elvis is still selling better than most live artists...and he's been dead for 32 years. The Beatles broke up nearly 40 years ago and still enjoy great popularity.

Meanwhile on her last tour, Madonna was trying to be Madonna 25 years ago...so much for growth as an artist...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 16:50pm


"You're kidding, right? Mentioning Madonna in the same breath with the Beatles is revolting"

No it's not. Your sarcasm is worthless in the face of a simple evidence, that Madonna is one of the few artists of genius in the the field of popular music, art and culture, and certainly the most creative female artist

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 16:59pm


She might be a "genius" to you, I guess. You and that other blowhard throwing that word and "masterpiece" around when it comes to her demeans the words...cheapens them, if you will. Were you even around during Beatlemania? If not, then you really have no basis for comparison. Give me one example of Madonna's music really shaking up the world...something really earth-shattering...something that changed EVERYTHING!!! She's been controversial (mostly by her own doing, and very little having to do with music), but so have countless other celebrities.

So, go ahead and tell me...what has she done that's so mind-boggling that people will talk about her 50 years from now. What has she done that will make her immortal. Her music? Her acting? I like Bruce Willis, but I doubt they'll hold him in the same regard as, say, John Wayne. Will she be as legendary as Marilyn Monroe?

Highly unlikely...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:15pm


What Beatles song can rival a masterpiece like Madonna's Nothing Fails, on her American Life album. Can only think about few:

Come Together,
Strawberry Fields Forever,
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band,
Yesterday,
The Long And Winding Road

and a few others, but that's all

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:16pm


The Beatles once held the first 5 spots on Billboard's top 100...at the same time!!! I've heard cuts off of her new album, and wasn't exactly "converted"...or surprised How do they sai it, "Triple S, Triple D".

Songs of the Beatles that are better than hers...try their whole catalog.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:22pm


"Nothing Fails" was number one on the "Hot Dance" Charts...oh, boy, right up there with the Village People!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:30pm


All this is so predictable...

Look what you've done Charlie

Now the nutcases (this time "kerneiv") are back!!

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:40pm


"try their whole catalog"

Pretty much did. It's not about the chart positions or commercial success, but about pointing out the artistic point of view. She's an amazing stand alone artist regardless of how much more successful other bands or songs were
You could say The Beatles made 200 songs in 7 years, most of them good or very good, but there were other times, don't think she ever jumped to making as much music as she could in a short period of time, as she took time to make movies etc.
The problem here is that you're trying to say Madonna is not a pop artist of genius, which is a lie, the whole career considered

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:40pm


In the pop field, she can only be compared, as a whole, to Michael Jackson, though in my opinion she's a way more creative and versatile and inspiring artist. Price doesn't have the quality of her songs and performances, for whatever reasons. George Michael, the same. Elton John is boring, Madonna has better song and melodic lines

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:46pm


Another thing...if you look real close, you'll see Madonna didn't even write "Nothing Fails".

I've always given Madonna credit on one thing...she's been as successful at self-promotion as anyone. Don't know if I'd call it "genius"..."dumb luck" might be a better phrase. Like I said before, it might just be "genius" to you...I'm not so free-wheeling with that label.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:48pm


Oh, did she buy her way out of a pedophile conviction, too...????

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:49pm


It doesn't matter if this particular song NF, an amazing song, was not originally composed by her. All bands, big and small, have had their help, producers, composers etc, especially after you become an house hold name etc.
She made it her own, turned it into an intimate and personal journey. She performs it from the heart, amazingly, not faking, she brings it to life. The chart performance is irrelevant,there r some amazing songs there, a concept album, spiritual and brilliant, but poorly promoted by the worst choice of leading singles and singles on the album- American Life and Hollywood, for whatever reason.
But as a whole, it's one of the best pop albums ever, regardless of commercial success, just like Ray Of Light is, also Music, Confession On a Dancefloor or the latest album Hard candy, again another amazing album

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 18:03pm


Rock purists indeed, anything that lacks a guitar is worthless. Well she has songs based on guitar, she the most talented performance artist in history, her lyrics are at place some of the best in pop history and she is one of the world's top 5 biggest selling music acts ever

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 18:27pm


Prove it...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 18:45pm


Prove what, you barbarian rocker?

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 19:01pm


Ah, the name calling starts...you're all alike! If she's done all these wonderful things and has been awarded all of these accolades, prove it! Like I've said before I share my opinions and any experiences I've had pertaining to Rock. You people spout off with no justification and say things that simply aren't true, obviously with no clue as to how ridiculous you sound.

If I'm a "barbarian rocker", and she's been inducted into the ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME, what does that make her...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 20:04pm


Wow, lots of action since early this morning.

I'll try to play both sides of the fence here (but probably won't gain any respect for doing so)


Unlike what the rocker only contingent (the barbarians, according to KernrlV) believes, Madonna did have some social impact on young girls in the late 1980's. Perhaps it was not the same as the Beatles in the 60's, either in terms of scope or scale, but remember, you are dealing w/the much smaller Generation X crowd. To expect anything the size or scope of the Baby Boomer crowd is patently wrong in this case.

Smaller group = less folks to impact + less chance it will be noticed as much.

This being said, I will still agree that Madonna doesn't have the Elvis/Fabs impact. A mention of ticket prices & touring came up - ticket prices are set by artists, and anyone selling a spectacle will expect spectacle prices. It is quite possible to sell in this manner to large swaths of fans, who will immediatly legitimize the spectacle in order not to feel the fool over the exhorbitant $. This does not mean that there is any relevance to the artist in the modern world. It merely salves the potential wounds regarding overspending for a ticket, that's all.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 20:05pm


If I'm a "barbarian rocker", and she's been inducted into the ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME, what does that make her...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 20:04pm
--------------------------------------------------
It makes her Red Sonja to your Conan...



O' Brian, that is.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 20:08pm


Gitarzan are you named after the Ray Stevens song?

Posted by Bingo on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 21:13pm


This thread has become unintelligible...Strawberry Fields Forever...Nothing Is Real...Nothing to get hung about...Peace

Posted by Dimmu Bogomir on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 22:47pm


This thread has gone completely fruit loops off the deep end ever since that one nutjob started calling us Satanists. So hilarious.
And so sad... KernrIV continuing to carry the banner proclaiming Madonna to be the most talented artist, maybe even person, alive. Madonna's talent is business talent. Not musical talent.

That said, again, I still say she deserved induction. Innovative? Hell no. Influence? Not directly. But she was such a powerhouse of the 80s that she practically changed the nature of the business, or bumped it up a notch, depending on how you prefer to look at it. Madonna was a force to be reckoned with, one way or another. You could not just simply ignore her. She was changing the shape, slope, scape and scarp of the music industry, and artists in every genre from country to disco to rock; HAD to deal with her if only to adapt their game plan to the wake that she was leaving behind.

In an indirect and long roundabout way, I think that does very much constitute "Influence." Not in the way the Beatles influenced other rock musicians, but in the way the Beatles influenced classic and Vegas-styled crooners, if that makes sense to you.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 06:33am


Let this conversation die already. Madonna is in and deserves it. She is the biggest star to come out of the MTV era. She has surpassed Michael Jackson as being the number 1 Pop/Dance Icon. She wrote some catchy tunes; and a ridiculous amount of dance tracks and was the ultimate diva when it came to promotion. She knew exactly what she wanted and accomplished it. Her fans are worldwide and they adore her. So fellow Rockers - give her the kudos she deserves and be done with it. Dameon
-------------------------------------------------
What Beatles song can rival a masterpiece like Madonna's Nothing Fails, on her American Life album. Can only think about few:

Come Together,
Strawberry Fields Forever,
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band,
Yesterday,
The Long And Winding Road

and a few others, but that's all

Posted by KernrlV on Saturday, 06.20.09 @ 17:16pm
-------------------------------------------------
Kernr1V

You lose creditablity with comments like this. Madonna's best songs couldn't crack the Beatles top 50.

Please - stop putting Madonna in the same category as the Beatles.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 07:48am


Bingo...that's where it came from. I've heard how difficult it can be to make the masses laugh, and Ray did it through song...hysterical!

Philip...my retrospect on Madonna is a little different than yours...she really was more of a follower than a leader. I didn't see her as much of a trend-setter...the style of music she would do at any given time was already in place, and she really didn't do anything innovative enough to take it to another level(from my point of view, anyway). For my part, in the 80's she was just another pop singer. Now I will admit she was definitely an MTV darling...she got more airplay there than she did on the radio...nothing to look at on the radio...and I don't think she ever had a definite musical style. If music pop music changed course a bit, you could bet she'd be right in the middle of it eventually, but not creating it.

Now, outside the music is a different story. I'll agree that in the mid 80's a lot of teenage girls were dressing like her, kinda like with Pat Benatar just a little earlier. That sort of thing has been going on for decades. The "incident" that I think really thrust her into the limelight was her "Like A Virgin" performance on the VMA's (again, a so-so song amplified by the way it was performed visually). I didn't think much about it, but it did create quite a stir...and she took that ball and ran with it! I remember seeing a clip of one of her concerts on HBO, or one of the other channels, thinking "What kinda concert is this????" Could you imagine SRV and Double Trouble standing on the side of the stage, looking over at some dancers on the other side and yelling "Hey, do you want to come over here and F**K US????" Outside the music, she was constantly stirring up controversy (always deliberate), and it usually had very little to do with her core body of musical work. Of course, there was the "Like A Prayer" fiasco, but the video created the furor, NOT the song itself...

So, yes we can call her a cultural icon, but more for outlandish behavior than as a "musician". I don't think that's a good enough reason to be inducted into the "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame"...if she had this overpowering body of musical work, I might feel differently. In her case, I don't think being proficient at the "Tube Steak" or "Upright Sex Organ" qualifies her as a "skilled musician"...

Observe, fanboys...these are my OPINIONS, no one says you have to like it!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 08:28am


Dameon...thre residual effect of her induction bothers me more than the induction itself. I think it opens the floodgates, if you know what I mean. A lot of the more deserving artists are going to stay on the outside looking in, while the nominating committee is going to try to sell tickets...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 08:36am


"Madonna's best songs couldn't crack the Beatles top 50"

This is a monstrous LIE

"I think it opens the floodgates"

Another monstrous LIE

You barbarian rockers are so full of it, bow down to The Queen Of Pop, The Goat Goddess and Whore Of Babylon in Pop Culture,
You're just envious cause she is better looking than John Lennon (**ggots)

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 09:00am


Loool

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 09:02am


Kokobeans (I guess that's your new moniker)...Why don't you come back when you can say something intelligent and you've quit acting like a blithering IDIOT!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 09:05am


Foker/MadonnasExorrcist/Kupi/KernrIV/kokobeans all are probably the same the person, judging by their posts (For the record, we'll call him "Fanatic"). Why does someone feel the need to change their screen name so many times? I'll answer my own question. I think it may have something to do with the fact that "Fanatic" wants to make it look like so many different people are supportive of Madonna's cause.

Oh and kokobeans, you called Madonna the "Queen of Pop, Goat Goddess and Whore of Babylon" all in the same sentence. What do you think that tells us about you?

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:08am


"What do you think that tells us about you?"

Nothing much, just that it does tell of some folks around here like Gitarzan lacking a **cking sense of humor.
Sentences like Madonna's best songs not being able to crack Beatles's top 50 are plain idiotik
Madonna's music is really different to Beatles' music and other rock bands, so in the end, it's all down to personal preferences
Gitarzan saying Madonna is a scam is in itself a scam, so the scam-er is not Madonna, but Gitarzan's point of view

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:24am


Keebord...I think that's pretty obvious, too. It's funny how people can have such polar oppisite viewpoints about a given "artist", and for someone who should've been an "obvious lock" to be inducted, it's curious that her page has over 1000 comments...which maybe makes her induction open to debate. When she was being nominated, my thought process was genuinely "Why is she even being given any consideration?" The last think I ever cared about was electronic bubble-gum dance music. Even during the disco era, I really enjoyed the solid R&B, funk stuff that you could also happen to dance to, as opposed to music that was created solely for the purpose of filling up a dance floor and mindlessly repeating the same phrases and melodies over & over....

This page ties into a lot of the others more than any other artist, right down to what the "R&RHoF" should be referred to as. She seems to be the poster girl for who does or doesn't deserve induction. It appears to be one of the few places where she has stirred controversy and didn't actually mean to...LOL!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:30am


As mrxyz would so eloquently put it..."All ya need are ears"

Also quoting mrxyz...Madonna is the exulted ruler of "HOLLYWOOD HYPE", the biggest con artist in populat music history...and she meant for it to be that way. A lot of people (or is that lemings?) fell for it and made her a multi-millionare, and a true "legend in her own mind".

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:37am


...that's "popular music history"!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:38am


"Oh and kokobeans, you called Madonna the "Queen of Pop, Goat Goddess and Whore of Babylon" all in the same sentence. What do you think that tells us about you?"

NO, this is another LIE. What I said was

"The Queen Of Pop, The Goat Goddess and Whore Of Babylon in Pop Culture", which is a totally different thing


"When she was being nominated, my thought process was genuinely "Why is she even being given any consideration?" The last think I ever cared about was electronic bubble-gum dance music"

NO, this is another LIE, Madonna was never "bubble-gum", rarely electronic,and made only partially dance music. Most of her music is pop, r'n'b

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 11:57am


It's pretty clear that you have no fast clue what you're talking about. All you have to do is prove us wrong, but since all her music was in the 80's was exactly that, you can't.

Is there a different "Madonna" around that you listen to that we don't know about whose this "6-octave range queen diva" you keep talking about. The one we're talking about barely has 1-octave range...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:01pm


What you fail to see, Gitarzan, (probably has something to do with a difference in taste, you search for other things in music than what she has to offer) is that her body of work is actually quite impressive. She made a couple of well-received albums. AcclaimedMusic.net ranks six of her albums in the Top 3000: Like a Prayer (#368), Ray of Light (#567), Like a Virgin (#871), True Blue (#1094), Music (#1231) and her s/t'd debut (#1626). And she didn't get good reviews because the music videos were so raunchy.

That list's quite impressive: off all her contemporary pop stars, only the obvious ones, Michael Jackson and Prince, are comparible. Off course it pales in comparison with The Beatles, but when compared to George Michael, Janet Jackson, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston, Lionel Richie, all don't even come close. Many other 80's pop artists, including many MTV staples, aren't even on the site. I highly doubt her induction would "open the floodgates", since not many pop stars have a comparible discography.

PS Goat goddess? Kokobeans, go seek some help.

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:16pm


"The one we're talking about barely has 1-octave range..."

Wow, that's like saying Madonna is the greatest artist, since with so little, she achieved so much- greatest selling female artist ever, unique catalog of songs and performances etc.
there's nothing to prove, Gitarzan. Acoording to you, I bet, Oprah's personna is beetr than Madonna's and Blink 192 has made better music than Madonna. You're a ****ing ********, *** ***** ****

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:17pm


Claw...I do understand what you're saying, but a lot of artists who have similar credentials (who are true rockers and have been eligible for a while) can make the same claim. What you're saying (I think) could be said about Mike Tyson...he was dominant in his time, but how would he have fared against Ali, Frazier, Foreman (in his prime), etc... She obviously touched a nerve with someone, and landing right at the beginning of the "golden age of MTV" certainly contributed mightily...

As for you Kokopuff, the only people who make statements like that ("there's nothing to prove") are people who can't prove a thing they say. Take a lesson from The_Claw, at least he backs up what he says with fact...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:30pm


...as for the name-calling, I'd expect that out of a neurotic 8th-grader.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:42pm


"Take a lesson from The_Claw, at least he backs up what he says with fact..."

What to back up, you said it yourself:

Madonna "barely has 1-octave range", you said Madonna is not beautiful, is not talented, basically according to you she's nothing, which is not right

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:48pm


sill she has achieve so much and everything. Am I alone when I see Madonna as this amazing artist, who has brought joy to millions of her fans around the world? Isn't she such a carrying and nurturing artist?

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 12:54pm


That's right (he/she/it can be taught), she's totally and completely irrelevent and insignificant to me, so if you want to call my opinion "biased", feel free to do so. Funny thing is, being a musician for several years, I haven't come across that many people in those sorts of circles who are particularly fond of her either...and Denver isn't exactly a small metro area.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:01pm


Gitarzan, you're a musician, you know the hardships so I can understand your hatred towards her, now. She represents everything that you hate: stardom, easy money from prostitution, Hollywood etc.
But what I'm saying is that, beyond that crap, she's really an impressive artist, if not one of the best, than unique, then. An one of a kind artist, unique among her female peers, capable to transmit through her music deeper thoughts and feelings

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:21pm


What I'm saying is that this "prostitute", Madonna, in the line of britney, christina etc is the most talented of them all, therefore she has earned her place among the greats, no matter what

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:27pm


And those "greats" are not all saints either, from it, so all these rambling from Gitarzan are pure non sense, and me responding to them can only turn into another ramblings,
the numbers, records that she has broken, although facing so much opposition, speak for themselves.

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:32pm


Claw..You said that acclaimedmusic.net ranks six of Madonna's albums in the Top 3000 Albums of All Time, the highest at #368? I hardly find that impressive. Compare that to Pink Floyd, who have four albums in the Top 200: Dark Side of the Moon (#21), The Piper At the Gates of Dawn (#100), The Wall (#150) and Wish You Were Here (#165)

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:37pm


It is like, Gitarzan, you're defending your own.
But who said your own, The Beatles, Pink Floyd and the other greats are not "great"?
You are the aggressor: Madonna is dirt, is bitch, is lazy, is not talented
You're defending your own, your own is magnificent, it protects you.
You see Madonna as an aggressor to your own, a danger to your own, therefore you attack.

But what it is in your own that you defend, it is in Madonna also, therefore you're in error, me replying to your error is another error, these rambling are all in all an error.

They inducted her in the RRHOF because they acknowledged that what it is in the greatest rock legends it is also in Madonna, this is plain obvious, they all ate the greatest quantities of chocolate

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:52pm


Great. Now it looks like some idiot is posting under the name "Keebord." Find your own screen name. Don't make me refer to myself as Keebord (The Real One)

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:55pm


I give up. Madonna is a genius. I will dedicate the rest of my life to worshipping her. Kokobeans is a genius too!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 13:59pm


I do not worship Madonna, I never said she was a genius, whatever that might be, but she is, as a whole, the most talented POP artist and performer (not necessarily the best POP musician), therefore a genius POP artist, great charisma, magnetism etc, all included. She's not flawless of course, but as a whole, looking in retrospective, she is the most outstanding POP artist, no matter how much less she sells than other acts or not

Posted by Kokobeans on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 14:14pm


Wow - someone is posting under my name now. Didn't this person ever see The Omen?

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 14:27pm


I think we can shake hands, Dameon & Keebord. Doesn't it make you proud? We're now officially site celebs.

About Acclaimed Music. Yes, there are indeed quite a couple of artists doing better on the list. Compared to giants like Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie, she's not that big. But still, based on album rankings alone, she ranks #90 on the greatest artist list. With song rankings combined, she's #49. That's quite impressive for someone who is considered by some to be more a performer than a musician, more famous for the controversies she's stirring than the quality of her music.

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 15:42pm


FYI...that was evil half-witted clone. Anyone see the movie "Multiplicity"?

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 18:03pm


Dameon...what's this with you and The_Claw and men's underwear...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.21.09 @ 18:09pm



You joke?

Posted by LeraJenkins on Monday, 06.22.09 @ 21:30pm


Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie = giants? Compared to Madonna? Lol

Madonna is a bigger artist than all of those three together


Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 00:22am


Madonna could only be compared to The Beatles and Elvis. Other comparisons are a waste a time, really

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 00:47am


Madonna is a living legend, the biggest legend in music of the past 25 years. You haters are just a waste of time

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 00:50am


About Acclaimed Music, I wouldn't trust those kinds of lists and rankings.
How many comedies or parodies have you seen winning an Oscar? Not many, dramas are preferred
How many times has Jim Carey won an Oscar? Not once
Just because Madonna has been too good at her thing, the pop phenomenon, and took everything with a sense of humor, she's not considered that worthy. Didn't she use to say that bitter people like it when the others around are bitter like them?
Those critics are a bunch of losers anyway. Madonna's shoes are too cool for them

Posted by MadonnaFan on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 01:04am


Gitarzan, I agree she was more of a follower, but that still doesn't alter the fact that it was SHE who was leaving the wake and creating the new landscape, and not the artists she copied.

Y'know, for all the bashing of Gitarzan, he's been pretty open-minded to the definitions of rock'n'roll. He hasn't dissed on a lot of the soul and R&B acts here, and didn't say too much negative about Run-D.M.C. getting in. So for him to take such a vociferous stand about how much any artist didn't deserve it... I think that says something.

And I agree with his floodgates comment, except that I think that that floodgate was opened two years earlier with Miles Davis.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 06.24.09 @ 18:10pm


Personally, I hate that so many reggae, disco, bubblegum, hip-hop, soul, country, funk, etc. have been inducted.

Miles Davis wasn't even put in as an "Early Influence". How can you put a jazz musician, which pre-dates rock n roll, into the main performers category?

I think put an "Outside Influence" category or change the name of the hall. If people disagree with me that's fine, but I'm sticking with my opinion.

I'm saying this for the last time that this page is better off dead.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.24.09 @ 18:22pm


10 reasons why Madonna is the better overall artist and performer than Michael:

1. She was better than him from day 1
2. Her evolution as an artist and performer is unprecedented, and way more consistent than his
3. Madonna has always been more charismatic
4. Madonna has always been more intelligent
5. Madonna has proven herself a more complex, creative and mature artist
6. Madonna has proven herself a more complex, creative and mature performer
6. Madonna has invented a whole new format in pop culture and made it her own: total reinvention, the consummate chameleon
7. Madonna is the bigger icon
8. Madonna has pushed the boundaries and taboos like no else before in mainstream pop music and popular culture
9. Madonna has reached perfection as a performance artist way more times than MJ
10. Madonna’s body of work is way more impressive, she looks overall more of a pop artist, rather than MJ, a pop star

Mr. Gitarzan is going to tear my comment to pieces. I see it coming, may god protect me of his elitist and rock purist fury! Well, I've said, so maybe he won't be so, ...harsh?

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 16:55pm


FFS, I AM going to be demolished by the rock purists! Help, there's no escape, help, help, they are coming!!!!!!!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 17:03pm


The truth is out there..., those unreleased songs:

Has To Be,
Revenge,
Gone Gone Gone
Fighting Spirit
History
Liquid Love
Time Stood Still

etc., etc...

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 17:12pm


Madonna Fan...thank you for your opinion (which, after all, is all that it is). Jackson's legacy is primarily the music (the stuff outside of the music was mostly unwanted, I think, as opposed to Madonna) and his contribution to it and his popularity is unparalleled. His contributions to the video genre changed the way MTV approached things in a lot of ways.

I think this not a time for such comparisons, though. It should be saved for later. I'm just hoping the man is finally at peace. Even though a lot of it was self-inflicted (allegedly), he seemed to be a very tortured soul...a prisoner to all that fame. Who knows, maybe he welcomed this...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 17:24pm


Honestly, MF... way too soon. Show a little respect for the dead.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 18:27pm


I will say it; Madonna does not exist as we know her today without Michael Jackson. He challenged MTV. It is because of him that it broke from a pure RnR format.

Madonna is in the Hall, deservedly so butI will say this a million times over. She is and always will be an MTV superstar. WIthout MTV, her career is far less glamorous or successful and she can thank MJ for breaking down that wall which then led to her iconic superstardom.

Madonnafan - I am not going to rip you apart. You have your opinion and I respect that.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 18:35pm


"I will say it; Madonna does not exist as we know her today without Michael Jackson"

What a load of nonsense, Madonna is a natural born performer, expressing the joy of life in a personal, original way, her moves and stamina on stage had never anything in common with MJ

"She is and always will be an MTV superstar. WIthout MTV, her career is far less glamorous or successful and she can thank MJ for breaking down that wall which then led to her iconic superstardom."

That thank to MJ is doubtful, and her video persona is just part of her outstanding inborn quality as a performance artist and charisma

Many Madonna controversies came outside Madonna's control and expectations, she just felt the need to express herself originally and stay true to herself
About the contribution to the video as an art form, I do think Madonna has brought, overall, more contributions - in terms of quality, and quantity, so to fiking speak

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 22:28pm


MTV didn't appear out of the trees, it was part of a bigger phenomenon that preceded it, the TV revolution, all music acts depended on and created an image, whatever that might be, long before MTV, see all the modern music acts or movie stars
Madonna pretty much didn't bring anything new onto the pop scene, she just did herself, she just did Madonna, because she was naturally the most juiciest, whatever that might mean, and naturally hugely talented, and very hard working, and very intelligent, and very beautiful, with great charisma and dance moves, pretty much the whole pop concept and product brought to the most extreme perfection

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 22:46pm


Madonna Fan - why don't you try reading my comment again before you stomp up and down and throw a tantrum. Comprehend what is written; that always helps this type of conversation.

I never said that Madonna did not have personna and stage presense. Nor did I say that she did not possess her own style, stamina and whatever else you listed. What I said was, if MJ did not breakdown the wall which MTV had put up as far as its format is concerned, Madonna would never had the stage which she had to show her talents off. And that is the visual. Her early music was not something that would have dominated the radio stations had it not been for the hoopla she created because of her visual. Her music was basically dance club oriented. And dance is visual.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 22:49pm


I wouldn't press too much on Madonna's scandals, much of them were just inflated by the competition in the music industry, one way or another, those kind of things just happen
Some comments here seem to be the product of some brainwashed religious Madonna veneration, which is very strange in its-self. The woman has a very strong spell over her fans, I myself kind of like it

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 23:02pm


Sometimes, in my moments of meditation,I found myself questioning myself again if Madonna is not a mean bitch

Posted by Madonna Fan on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 23:07pm


Everyone knows I don't believe that either Jackson or Madonna should have been inducted, but if we are talking about overall career, then Jackson's easily tops Madonna's.

Jackson had a career pre-MTV with the Jackson 5 and Madonna would not have had a career if he had not made MTV so popular. Also, Jackson had the better falsetto. And Jackson made the highest-selling album of all-time.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 00:08am


Your opinion about MJ career easily topping Madonna's is as erroneous as the other opinion of yours that MJ and Madonna shouldn't have been inducted in the RRHOF
MAdonna is one of the greatest pop artists,songwriters and performers in history, easily

Posted by Madonna Fan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 13:32pm


Your opinion, which I respect, but it's called the RRHOF.

Jackson had the better career. More influence, more innovation, and more albums sold.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 14:05pm


If one is to look at Jackson's overall career, he really has no peers in the field of "pop music". He is unrivaled as a performer (as mrxyz would say..."all ya need are EYES") and if you include Jackson 5's sales, the number of overall sales must be mind-boggling. He has one album that has sold 109 MILLION COPIES (and climbing, from what I understand) and had 7 TOP 10 SINGLES (and don't forget, "Off The Wall" had four...11 in two albums)! Most artists don't have that many in their whole career. The only other artists who I can think of who can match that are Elvis & the Beatles.

As far as the 80's go, given the "Victory" album and tour with his brothers plus his solo success, there was Michael Jackson...and then everybody else.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 14:29pm


That album sold 50 + million, no matter how much it is climbing nowadays.
Madonna is the epitome of the New York pop rock wave from New York, in late seventies, MJ the epitome of Motown
Madonna had, don't know exactly, like 15 or 16 consecutive Top 5 songs in the 80s, it was unprecedented then and probably stil is

Posted by Madonna Fan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 14:53pm


The numbers you give reflect U.S. Sales...better go check worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 15:35pm


Wikipedia is not a reliable source, anyone can post there false info

Posted by Madonna Fan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 16:30pm


It only seems unreliable until it suits a Madonna fan...how convenient.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 17:13pm


No it's not convenient because Madonna's page on Wiki was reported to be numerous times under attack from people putting false information also, but derogatory, like some of her album sales with lower figures than they actually are, removing many of the info about her achievements etc

Posted by Madonna Fan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 17:23pm


So, you're saying that this only happened to Madonna, right? She's the only one who's had facts actually REMOVED from Wiki (the POSITIVE ones, of course), and that 109 million figure (which has been there for some time) just can't possibly be true, just so much rubbish...is that what you're saying...??

Once again...with feeling...read my previous post.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 17:41pm


It's an anti-Madonna conspiracy started by the Satanists, Gitarzan.... join us, we have cookies.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 18:20pm


Thriller is 28 Platinum in USA, with 20 million copies sold, worldwide it sold about 55 million. Michael Jackson has sold around 250 million records, including albums and singles, Madonna over 300 million worldwide, I believe. Madonna is bigger in places like Europe, Canada, Australia and South America, even in USA she's ahead, at least going by the official RIAA certifications, if I remember correctly
Surely, his PR team has claimed for him sales of 750 million records or Thriller with 100 million units, but those are only PR stunts coming from his PR team or label

Posted by CowboyTent on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:02pm


Ooops, I meant Thriller certified at 28 Platinum with 28 million copies sold, not 20 million...
Those PR stunts of course are meant to manipulate the general public, the media, the fans

Posted by CowboyTent on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:07pm


If they're chocolate chips...I'M THERE!!!!

CowboyTent...do you have any idea where that 109 million figure might've come from?

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:24pm


Here's a great tidbit of information;

Jackson Albums purchased by Gitarzan...2

Madonna albums purchased by Gitarzan...0, zip, zero, nada...

Satisfaction Gitarzan has in that fact...priceless!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:27pm


Madonna is the greatest artist, performer and singer ever!
She's the biggest selling female artist worldwide!
Just amazing!
Her legacy is amazing, she has never inspired anyone because she's too good!
Just amazing!

I myself have bought all her albums, 21 of them, sometimes even multiple times, meaning I actually own 55 of them! Lol! Not to mention my great collection with Madonna's singles!

About Michael Jackson, I don't know, I never bought an album of his and I'm pretty sure I never will.

Madonna for me is perfection and I love her so much! Just, I don't know, it's great!

Posted by Luciferinho on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:37pm


I think that's my cue to talk about something else...ANYTHING else...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:43pm


"Her legacy is amazing, she has never inspired anyone because she's too good!"

Dude, WTF? That dude is making fun of us!

Posted by Metalhead on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 19:45pm


lol. I love it. It's like saying someone is a genius because others have said that no one can teach him anything.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 06.27.09 @ 21:11pm


Funny thing, VH1 Classic was just about to do something concerning the album "Thriller" and THEY said it had sold over 100 million copies worldwide. So, Madonna Fan...I highly suggest you call VH1 and tell them how wrong they are.

I wouldn't say anything on this site unless I'd heard it from a fairly reliable source or, at the very least, had a hint of truth to it. In the states, the Eagles' Greatest Hits had surpassed it (although that has probably changed by now...I would imagine it will pop back up on Billboard's top 100 album list again soon...kinda like Elvis having albums pop back up on there in 1977). Considering the worldwide fan reaction over Thursday's events, I'd have to think the rest of the world having bought the other 75 million copies isn't such a stretch...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 09:59am


Another thing that bolsters overall sales of a great album (yes, even Madonna's) is that people who bought the vinyl bought the cassette and in turn bought the CD. I'd be curious to see what sales have been like for given artists on the subscription services. Who exactly keeps track of those numbers?

It reminds me of the late 50's to early 60's...I had just a very few albums and ROWS of 45 RPM's. Nowadays, if an artist records an album, it had better be like a "Thriller" where almost every song is a hit. I know I don't like buying songs I don't like...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 11:06am


"Globally speaking, Nana Mouskouri is the biggest-selling female artist of all time."- VH1 Artist Profile

This statement would be nearly impossible to dispute...even by the most ravenous Madonna fan...most of which are too narrow-minded to have even HEARD of or listened to Mouskouri.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 12:13pm


VH1 have never be good with numbers, they just report it is "delivered" to them.
Anyways "Thriller" or Nana Mouskouri selling that much is as fake as other claims for acts like ABBA selling over 300 million records or Julio Iglesias with over 250 million
Labels tend to inflate their artists achievements and rightfully so.

Beatles or Elvis have never sold 1 billion records worldwide lol.
Even if they calculated:

the number of albums X singles ("records") on them

to give a total of over 1 billion records,

by that way of measurement Madonna herself has sold 2 billion records worldwide:

190 million albums X 10 "records" (on each album) = 1.9 billion "records"/music units/singles/ tracks

Compare that to Nana's alleged 300 million "records"/music units/singles/ tracks

But it doesn't work that way. Albums are albums, and individual singles are another thing

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 15:25pm


By any approximate estimations, considering the total of records sold, albums and singles, physical and digital, double albums counted as 1,
the biggest sellers worldwide would be:

1. The Beatles - over 400 million records (~300 million albums and ~100 million singles)

2. Elvis, Madonna - over 300 million records (~190 million albums and ~100 million singles)

3. Michael Jackson - over 250 million records
(~180 million albums and ~70 million singles)

When considering both album and singles sales, all other music acts are well behind


Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 15:36pm


Everybody's numbers are inflated, of course, except for Madonna's. By your estimation, they're way UNDER-inflated by most accounts, right?? Wow, thanks for clearing that up, otherwise we'd have never known how unreliable a source VH1 is...

Madonna, the true blue "hype machine" would never have her numbers inflated. Where, exactly do you get your information...the Enquirer?

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 18:42pm


Here's a direct comparison for you compiled by the RIAA in November of 2003;

Madonna...16 gold, 16 platinum, and 12 multi-platinum

The Beatles...41 gold, 36 platinum, and 24 multi-platinum

Elvis...89 gold, 46 platinum, and 23 multi-platinum

Oh, and let's not leave out Barbra Streisand...50 gold, 28 platinum, and 13 multi-platinum

Now, I suppose the RIAA doesn't know what they're talking about, either. Holding poor Madonna back like that and underscoring her numbers...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 18:55pm


Top-selling artists, 1991 - 2007
Garth Brooks 67,402,000
Beatles 55,695,000
Mariah Carey 49,937,000
Celine Dion 49,692,000
Metallica 48,670,000
George Strait 39,171,000
Tim McGraw 36,413,000
Alan Jackson 35,266,000
Pink Floyd 34,453,000
Shania Twain 33,531,000
Source: Nielsen SoundScan

Eh, notice a name missing from this list...???




Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 19:31pm


Your stats (G, P, MP) are factoring too much onto the number of album releases.Elvis has had hundreds of albums released, Beatles and Streisand over 50 album releases

With only 19 album releases (+2 Live albums), Madonna is the 2nd biggest selling music act ever, 2gether with Elvis, and followed closely by Michael Jackson.
This achievement is largely due to Madonna being, overall:



-the biggest selling international American artist ever, only American artist with over 100.000.000 albums sold internationally
-Europe's biggest selling SOLO artist ever, behind The Beatles and Queen, with album sales in excess of 75 million copies

Between 1991 - 2009, Madonna has sold close to 50 million albums in Europe, not counting the albums released in the 80's, an unique overall achievement for any American artist out there.
There is no secret that in the 2nd half of her career, Madonna has been overall way more successful internationally than in her native country, for whatever reason, selling 3 times, sometimes even 4 times the amount in US

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 19:57pm


According to WHO...??? You never give any sources, and all I give you are sources. You have no credibility. The last one I gave doesn't even have her listed at all...and it was during what was probably her height of popularity. If she's the 2nd biggest selling artist ever (highly unlikely), then prove it.

As a side note...RIAA does NOT certify an individual recording gold, platinum, and multi-platinum...it can only be one of the three.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:10pm


Mr. Gitarzan, there actually ARE chart forums on the net, with well documented info for Madonna's international sales - albums and singles
For example in UK, the 2nd biggest music market in the world,
Madonna is the biggest selling female artist ever, with over 20 million albums sold, over 17 million singles, very close to Elvis, and not that that close to Beatles (the best sellers there). That kind of info is from official sources, like the British phonographic body etc

About that Soundscan list, if I remember correctly, Madonna was actually in the Top 30, with about 26 million albums sold, with her most recent sales and catalog sales she must be very close to 30 million albums sold in the Soundscan era, thank you very much

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:19pm


Her latest world tour,Sticky And Sweet Tour,has become, with only 58 dates, lol, the biggest grossing tour ever by a SOLO artist, over 280 million $ grossed. Thank you very much

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:30pm


According to Nielsen SoundScan, which tracks sales for Billboard (probably another unreliable source to you), Madonna didn't have a top 10 album in any year between 1991 & 2008. Top 30...big deal! You would think the 2nd biggest selling artist in history, Rock & Roll HALL-OF-FAMER would have at least ONE (the Beatles even had one, and they had been split up for 25 years)! If her sales in Europe were that monstrous (which they'd have to be absolutely mind-boggling), and given Michael Jackson's international popularity (even in China), then we could conclude that it's very possible...or probable...that "Thriller" has probably sold in excess of 109 million copies...this is in accordance to your way of thinking.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:36pm


Why so many retards and mediocre artists, like Britney Spears, Beyonce or Lil Wayne, sell more albums than Madonna in US, is a big dilemma:

-either the the general music buyers are a bunch of retards and idiots
-either Madonna's albums sales in US are sabotaged, for whatever socio-political reasons

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:40pm


Funny you should mention that...I wonder how many tickets promoters had to eat for those numbers (with the cheapest tickets...at least in Denver...being $92.00...ridiculous). I know for a fact that her November 2008 show in Denver DIDN'T sell out. From what I understand, that was commonplace on this tour...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:42pm


I'm sitting here, looking at a (genuine) ad for the Beatles' first U.S. date at the Washington Sports Arena in Washington, D.C. The ticket price was 5 bucks!! I'd like to see the attendance for when the Beatles were touring here...that's more impressive than how much money it made. Between his 1968 Vegas comeback and his death, Elvis constantly toured and never performed before an empty unpaid seat...and he played a whole lot of stadiums. All 50 dates of that tour Jackson had planned sold out in a matter of minutes.

That is stuff of legend. At AT LEAST 92.00 a pop, you'd better make a lot of money...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:54pm


Top 30 is a pretty big deal, considering, like you said, she hasn't had a Top 10 album in any year between 1991 & 2008 in US, and that Top 30 has given her album sales more than M. Jackson overall

For example, for 2008, Hard Candy was like the 51th best selling album in US,
but, because of Madonna's huge international fallowing, from all albums released in 2008 worldwide,
it was the 6th biggest selling album worldwide

Though Hard Candy being only the 51th best selling album in US for 2008,
it still received the World Music Award for the biggest selling album released by an American artist, in 2008
(you asked for official sources, right?)

Imagine that! that is Madonna and her huge international following, recognizing the best female artist out there!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 20:58pm


"All 50 dates of that tour Jackson had planned sold out in a matter of minutes."

No, they weren't, they were bought ALL by Viagogo and other ticketing companies, to re-sell them at higher prices, to fans etc

Madonna's SS tour became the biggest grossing tour ever, worldwide, during the biggest economic crisis!

Who ever compared Beatles with Madonna?

Madonna is one thing, Beatles another thing!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:05pm



Music sales in places like China and India are very small, because most of the albums are counterfeited!
From official estimations, more than 90% of the music products are counterfeited!
The biggest music regions are USA and Europe, from what I know from my small popular music knowledge!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:14pm


As of this point in time, "Hard Candy" has sold approx. just under 3 million copies...worldwide. Hardly stuff of legend (must be that same commie plot here in the U.S. to hold her back). You're the one put Madonna in the same zip code with Elvis & the Beatles (which she's not), and of course, when your concerts aren't selling out, there's no need to scalp the tickets...am I right?

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:15pm


"The biggest music regions are USA and Europe, from what I know from my small popular music knowledge"- She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Fan

If that's the case, then all we need to do is look at Nielsen SoundScan to get an accurate reading of what her sales are REALLY like...now this is according to you...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:19pm


"If that's the case, then all we need to do is look at Nielsen SoundScan to get an accurate reading of what her sales are REALLY like...now this is according to you..."

And also...to Europe,
Madonna's record sales in Europe, where Madonna is the biggest selling solo artist ever, according to IFPI data, and others etc.

As of this point in time, "Hard Candy" has sold close to 3.8 million...worldwide, shiffted over 4 million copies

Madonna attracts a younger audience, Beatles a more mature audience!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:29pm


Ah, another weekend in the trenches! Look Madonna Fan, I really don't have anything against Madonna, because she just isn't relevent...to me. Also, it's MY OPINION that other more deserving artists should've been inducted before her. As for record sales, you need to understand that Elvis and the Beatles still sell well long after their respective demise, and only time will tell if that willever be duplicated.

It's nice that you're that big of a fan of someone to defend them, which I don't begrudge you for at all. Have a good week & enjoy...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:29pm


I'm not a Madonna fan, I'm more of a Beatles fan,
I just long to find out why is she so scrutinized and her obvious artistic value so disregarded!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:35pm


Maybe because she's...too good
and seen as a threat by the popular music "establishment"?

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:36pm


Maybe it just comes down to what I've listened to and experienced over the years before she came along. If it gives you any indication, if someone were to ask me who taught me to play guitar, I tell them "Harrison & Lennon". I've seen a lot of the legendary performers live, and what was always important is what I HEARD...!!! When Madonna came along (I was in my late 20's), I just could never wrap my brain around her popularity...and henceforth have very strong opinions about it.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:44pm


Maybe a threat...to some.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:48pm


Anyway, good night and good luck to you. Maybe we'll discuss the Beatles sometime...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:53pm


"When Madonna came along (I was in my late 20's), I just could never wrap my brain around her popularity...and henceforth have very strong opinions about it."

Better neglect the woman, and should have continued listening to Sgt Peeper or Abbey Road albums!

If you don't like an artist, for whatever reason, what's the point in dissing him, as long as you don't even know all his music, since u never liked him to begin with?

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 21:55pm


Like!

Yeah right, Madonna, take your Like A Virgin album and shove it up yours, my Rubber Soul album, you'll never have that! Ha ha

"Maybe we'll discuss the Beatles sometime..."


There's nothing to discuss about The Beatles, Madonna's music and vision is for younger audiences, for all that young age that you eventually have to leave behind,

The Beatles for what it is left of that age, the Age Of Innocence, being kool and free!

Posted by Madonna Fan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 22:00pm


Suit yourself...I'm done here!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 06.28.09 @ 22:03pm


End this conversation already - it is as boring as Madonna herself. She is in the Hall of Fame and there is nothing left to be said about that.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 06.29.09 @ 07:27am


This thread has gone bazooka! Conspiracies, theories, pros and cons. Madonna is a great artist and performer, of course she deserves to be inducted!

Posted by Bill on Monday, 06.29.09 @ 23:25pm


This woman has sold, in a shorter period of time, with only 18 album releases, more albums, more singles, more records worldwide than:

Led Zeppelin
Eagles
Pink Floyd
The Rolling Stones

She is the 3rd biggest selling music act ever, on a worldwide basis, very close to Elvis, with The Beatles clearly Nr. 1s

Mr. Gitarzan's denigration is ridiculous and out of line. Just stop it already!
It is, I say, revolting! Pheww

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 05:37am


Once again...where's your proof on all these wonderful "European sales"? You people never offer substantiated fact on anything...and you call me ridiculous???? A lot of people have sold millions of records, been more influential and innovative in the field of "Rock & Roll" than she'll ever dream of being, but yet she's in and they'll probably never get in...WHY???? It's because the "Hall of Fame" has money problems and they need to sell tickets, which is the only reason I can think of...THAT'S revolting!!!

I concur with a lot of other people in the know on this site that it should be renamed the "Popular Music Hall of Fame" (which it doesn't even come close to representing that, either) or just scrap it all together and turn it into a parking lot. it's an abomination to the essence of what is "Rock & Roll".

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 06:03am


"Once again...where's your proof on all these wonderful "European sales"? You people never offer substantiated fact on anything...and you call me ridiculous????"

Type on google

"Madonna 50 million Europe sales award",

see it for yourself, it's official, from her label Warner,
"award produced to recognise european sales in excess of 50 million to coincide with her world tour" (2001)

And Gitarzan, it is an abomination to criticize when you haven't achieve 0,001 % of what Madona achieved

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 07:22am


That still doesn't add up to "3rd all-time" And who's being critical? For me to be critical, she'd have to be relevent. The question is this...

"Why is she in the "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame" (especially on the first ballot) when much more deserving and influential Rock artists who have been eligible for years aren't?"

It's not so much about her as it is the flaws in the nominating procedures...they don't even meet their own criteria.

Now, do you get it? Can you wrap your little brain around that? GEEZ....!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 07:37am


It adds up, since she's the biggest selling American music act in Europe, by far, thank you very much

But Gitarzan, you being such a good critic and Beatles fan, I have a question,
what are, according to you, the best 5 songs from The Beatles?

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 07:55am


OMG you folks are still talking Madonna ?? LOL

Gee seems she has you under her spell..LOL It is a pitty ..but do carry on. if it seems to help you in some fashion....
To me Joplin ,Cline , Holiday ,Thorton,Collins,Nico even Annette would be a far more intersting topic...
What ever..LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 08:54am


Can we please all just drop the Madonna talk now? This is getting really dry fast.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 10:22am


Yes, these discussions are pointless. Anyone is entitled to like whoever they want. She was inducted and that's it. Much ado for nothing

Posted by Madonna Fan on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 21:44pm


Yeah, she's very talented

Posted by Borbo on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 21:51pm


It would've been dropped by last week if that MJ/Madonna crap that spouted up. Out of nowhere came the comparisons... wtf? Why would you do that so soon? That kind of crap is why we have the derogatory term "Madge badge."

Ok, sorry. Done now.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 06.30.09 @ 21:52pm


Gitarzan is a major Beatles fan.
Gotta give it to him, they are just amazing. They were so good at their craft, they give you the feeling that they just were playing with it, with greatness!
From all of their songs, almost half of them, around 80 are just amazing. This is unheard of.

If I could think of another music to come close to them, it must Madonna!
From all of her songs, around half of them, around 79 songs, are just amazing. This is also unheard, for a soloist

Posted by Madonna Fan on Thursday, 07.2.09 @ 11:39am


If I could think of another music to come close to them, it must Madonna!
From all of her songs, around half of them, around 79 songs, are just amazing. This is also unheard, for a soloist

Posted by Madonna Fan on Thursday, 07.2.09 @ 11:39am


Madonna is the only "true one", The Beatles were 4 men..Madonna is our living HOPE. The Beatles were just a band. Madonna is our LIGHT and earthly SAVOR. She is the way to ever lasting truth...
Don't be fooled ,there is oly 1 Madonna. She has returned. REJOICE to ALL! The world is waiting in her hidden light .Beware of false rock IDOLS..2012 is close at hand..The sands of time wait for know one.This is a GLOBAL WARNING..Bliss is close as your IPOD. Enjoy her words and music..LET IT SET YOU FREE


Posted by godsavethequeen on Thursday, 07.2.09 @ 13:30pm



It agree, rather useful message

Posted by PeterMontee on Thursday, 07.2.09 @ 20:15pm



lol

Posted by Borbo on Thursday, 07.2.09 @ 20:19pm


Worst Inductees Into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame:

1. Madonna
2. Run-DMC
3. Miles Davis
4. Leonard Cohen
5. Jann Wenner
6. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five
7. The Sex Pistols
8. Isaac Hayes
9. Patti Smith
10. Earth, Wind & Fire
11. Prince
12. Bonnie Raitt
13. Paul McCartney
14. Sly & The Family Stone
15. George Harrison

Posted by Tim on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 15:55pm


Patti Smith would be on my list of one of the worst.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 16:40pm


I'm sure any second now "they'll" be coming out of the woodwork with their fangs bared...this time we'll let Tim deal with them.

Dameon...I think that live version of "Gloria" by Patti Smith has to be one of the worst renditions ever...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 16:47pm


Interesting. Some time ago I called Patti Smith, Bonnie Raitt and Isaac Hayes as the most questionable inductees (and came under attack from The_Claw coincidentally). and now this Tim goes and puts them on his list of "Worst Inductees"

Maybe I haven't lost it after all, lol

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 16:51pm


P.S. Tim, watch out your going to be bombarded by furious Madonna fanatics anytime now....

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 16:53pm


Lol

Posted by Borbo on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 17:03pm


I agree with some of those picks but I didn't see Percy Sledge on your list. Also I would add the Pretenders.

Posted by Brian on Friday, 07.3.09 @ 17:32pm


"Is there even any question that Madonna is the worst inductee?" - Tim

Yes, Jan Wenner is a FAR worse inductee. Nothing but self-promotion. THIS is what made the hall a joke.

Posted by Steve Z on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 11:04am


What a load of crap?! Madonna, the most undeserving artist to be in the RRHOF?
What is this crap? Tim, Stubbs and Gitarzan are certified Madonna haters
They are very sad people and should be ashamed of themselves, that is not the way to talk about the biggest female legend in music history!

Posted by Mitzubishi on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 22:42pm


Madonna is the only truly female global megastar, that American music has ever produced
She appeals as much as in North America as in Africa, even more in Europe, Latin America,Asia and Australia
She's the most famous woman in the world, world's biggest selling and most successful female artist ever
Her global album sales are approaching 200 million units, her singles sales are estimated to be at over 100 million units, for a total of 300 million records! Her global success is unprecedented and truly one of a kind

Posted by Mitzubishi on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:02pm


I'm a very happy person and not a bit ashamed of myself. Now, let me explain this one more time...I don't hate Madonna. Hate is a very strong emotion, and for me to hate her she'd have to be relevent in my life, which she's not...in the least.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:07pm


When is this Madonna insanity going to end?

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:15pm


Do you know how many artists have sold more albums, more singles than Madonna, globally?
Only 2: The Beatles and Elvis Presley.

Other artists' fans may claim for their idol all kind of inflated sales and achievements, but I try to be as objective as possible. I'm not a fan boy, I was a huge fan when I was younger,I had posters, CD's with her, all that stuff, but now I just admire the woman!

Yes, The Beatles and Elvis will always remain huge icons, Beatles more for their musicianship, Elvis more for his energy, charisma, amazing voice and performances!
But now c'mon, Madonna is surely one of the greats too, starting with her amazing music, concert and visual performances!
Rock N Roll is the electricity of the performances, and Madonna, from all female artists, had more than anyone!
Classics like Lucky Star, Like A Virgin, La Isla Bonita, Like a Prayer, Vogue,You'll See, Frozen, Hung Up are some of the best out there
She is the biggest female legend in pop music, nothing came for free, but with enormous hard work and genius creativity

Posted by Mitzubishi on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:34pm


"Rock N Roll is the electricity of the performances--"

no No NO NO!!!!! Please do not say stuff like this. It is so stupid it actually gives me a headache. That is as dumb as Lady Gaga, when she said in Blender that "[her] music isn't soul, but you feel when you bump and grind on the dance floor with your partner, THAT'S soul." No it is not. It is sexual stimulation, but that is NOT soul. Soul is much deeper, more transcendent, and more spiritual (even if not religious) in nature than grinding on the dance floor with someone. I'm sorry, but that statement is just idiotic, and frankly, so is your comment about Madonna's "rock'n'roll".

And that's coming from someone who said she DID deserve her induction.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:42pm


Dude, I used the rock n' roll term as a generic one, FFS, what's wrong with you people?

Posted by Mitzubishi on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:47pm


Most of us don't seriously use "rock'n'roll" as a generic term or as a definition of an attitude, at least not on a site devoted to discussing the music.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 07.4.09 @ 23:54pm


Dude Man...they will never give up. They will keep spouting these over-inflated records sales of hers (with no proof) and her "record" concerts (with no proof), and overall discount every other artist who ever existed to make it look like she is the greatest entertainer/performer/artist who ever lived. Some will at least try to have a rational conversation, but for the most part, no.

Don't forget the Steve Perry fans, too. They are nearly as voracious as Madonna fans...and usually about as clueless!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 08:40am



Your act is very lame, Gitarzan. Take it somewhere else, you are lame, lame, lame...
You don't know nothing, you have an opinion about everything, you're dumb
You're not even interesting, you're a sad, sad man

"Madonna is the only truly female global megastar, that American music has ever produced
She appeals as much as in North America as in Africa, even more in Europe, Latin America,Asia and Australia
She's the most famous woman in the world, world's biggest selling and most successful female artist ever
Her global album sales are approaching 200 million units, her singles sales are estimated to be at over 100 million units, for a total of 300 million records! Her global success is unprecedented and truly one of a kind"


...

Posted by Dekomat on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 09:44am


Prove it...or SHUT UP!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 10:03am


"Your act is very lame, Gitarzan. Take it somewhere else, you are lame, lame, lame...
You don't know nothing, you have an opinion about everything, you're dumb
You're not even interesting, you're a sad, sad man"- something called "Dekomat"

Yep, and I'm also a satan worshipper...all of this just because I don't think Madonna is relevent or significant (not to mention undeserving of the "ROCK & ROLL" Hall of Fame). With a very few exceptions, it's always the same...these neurotic morons get on here and start name calling or throwing around insults instead of backing up what they say with substantiated fact. Besides that, if what they say were even criteria, then ABBA would've been a first ballot inductee...they're as much "Rock & Roll" as she is. The nominating committee is so inconsistant that it's painfully obvious and appalling.

Isn't there a fan-based website you can go to if you want to get all ga-ga over her?

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 10:36am


Ta-la-ta-ta-taa

(Chorus)

La-la-la-la-la-la-laaa
Te dijo te amo
La-la-la-la-la-la-laaa
Spoken: El dijo que te ama

Pa-pa-la-pa-pa pa-pa-pa-pahaaa
Aha, aha-ahaaa

Beautiful song...


La isla bonita
Ahaa, aha-ahaaa...

Posted by Borbo on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 12:43pm


I don't have enough energy to waste on Madonna for the forseeable future. If some "Cousin Itt" Gitarzan wants to get on here and rant and pretend he's me, all I can say is...whatever!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.5.09 @ 17:01pm


Madonna's global album sales are approaching 200 million units, her singles sales are estimated to be at over 100 million units, for a total of 300 million records! Her global success is unprecedented and truly one of a kind

Posted by Dekomat on Monday, 07.6.09 @ 06:07am


Madonna's global album sales are approaching 200 million units

USA: 70 million (RIAA, 63.5 Platinum/million, under-certified)
Europe: 75 million (biggest selling Solo artist ever)
Rest Of The World: 50 million



Madonna's singles sales are estimated to be at over 100 million units

USA: over 45 million (37 Top 10/ record breaking, 12 NR. 1s, artist with most Gold singles ever, behind Elvis, physical + digital units considered 3gether)
Europe: over 50 million (UK: ~ 17 million - only Beatles, Cliff Richard and Elvis have sold more overall, France + Germany ~ 20 million, etc.)
Rest Of The World: well over 5 million (Canada, Mexico, Japan, Oceania etc)

Posted by on Monday, 07.6.09 @ 06:19am


This conversation has become more boring than the one of Global Warming.

No one cares anymore. She is in the Hall; let's be done with it already!

Gitar - leave it alone now. She has influenced a ton of artists and it doesn't matter whether we like those artists or not. Influence is influence! I share your feelings on her, but she is not my least objectionable inductee.

And all the Madonna fans - leave it alone now. She has done her thing nad deserves kudos for it. Rank her wherever you like, just stop putting her in the same company as the Beatles.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 07.6.09 @ 08:07am


"She's the most famous woman in the world"

In a time where the top contenders for that title are Oprah, Hillary Clinton, and Paris Hilton, is that really something to be proud of?

Posted by Randy on Monday, 07.6.09 @ 10:36am


She's not rock and roll, more of a pop-rock-rn'b-dance diva,
but surely a tremendous artist, the most famous and successfully female artist ever
Her sales are pretty amazing.
In the domain of singles sales, she's huge, between US, UK and the other countries her singles sales surpass 100 million, only The Beatles and Elvis have sold more overall

In the domain of albums sales, they stand anywhere between 190 and 200 million worldwide, which is also impressive. Again, only The Beatles and Elvis have sold more worldwide. The Beatles are untouchables, Elvis has achieved more in US, but Madonna is overall the bigger worldwide phenomenon, in places like Europe, South America, Asia and Australia
She's the 3rd biggest biggest selling music act ever, with album and single sales estimated at over 300 million
In USA alone, if one counts the album and single sales together, she's the biggest selling female artist ever, with album and single sales at well over 100 million units

Posted by Kobe on Wednesday, 07.8.09 @ 01:26am


What it is, it is the best and most talented artist and performer of the the whole of the popular music and culture
Beyond genres, preferences, charts, and opinions
The most gifted performance artist overall, Madonna at her best remains untouchable. The First Album, Like A Virgin,True Blue, WTG soundtrack and tour, Like A Prayer, Vogue, Blond Ambition Tour, Frozen, Confessions Eras:

- image: perfect face, unique charisma, style and class, the sexiest body and diva, Greek goddess
- songs: the best rhythms, bass lines, soulful and deep songs, from pop beats to balladas and hip-hop jams
- performance: masterpiece videos, the best of live energy, the most unique coordination between the song, moves, visual presentation, soul and thought

Posted by SogaAdebayok on Tuesday, 07.14.09 @ 04:37am


She's pretty good, Queen Of Pop

Posted by Kokobeans on Tuesday, 07.14.09 @ 12:54pm


I like some of her songs and videos, great work. Nice
Lady Ga Ga is good too though, I saw he in concert several times, I couldn't help it

Posted by Gicarsol on Thursday, 07.23.09 @ 13:26pm


Some info about Madonna music sales:


Up until 1 March 1991, when Soundscan started, Madonna sold over 15 million physical singles (only an estimation, could be wrong):

-before Sounscan, she had 21 Top 10 songs, 18 Top 5 songs and 9 #1 songs
-during Soundscan, she had 16 Top 10, 10 Top 5 and 3 #1 songs

Of those 16 Top 10, Hung Up and 4 Minutes were sold mostly digitally, so you're left with:

- 14 Top 10 singles and other physical singles released during Soundscan, which still sold over 10.000.000 physically (10.554.000)
- 21 Top 10 singles and other physical singles released before Soundscan, which sold at least 15.000.000 physically





- Since physical singles don't sell anymore, Madonna's will always remain the biggest selling female artist in US regarding physical singles sales, over 25 million units, with digital units (10.307.000) for a total of at least 35 million
Madonna will also always remain the biggest selling female artist worldwide regarding physical singles sales, by a much larger margin
- Madonna has sold at least 35+17= 52 million singles between US and UK (physically&digitally), over 100.000.000 worldwide







During Soundscan/ since 1 March 1991

Rescue Me Gold 500.000
This Used to Be My Playground Gold 500.000
Erotica Gold 500.000
l'll Remember Gold 500.000
Secret Gold 500.000
Take A Bow Gold 500.000
You'll See Gold 500.000
You Must Love Me Gold 500.000
Frozen Gold 500.000
Ray Of Light Gold 500.000
Music Platinum 1.000.000
Don't Tell Me Gold 500.000

Total (going ONLY by certification levels): 6.5 million
Soundscan official reported total: 10.544.000 physical singles


***3 Top 10 physical singles (out of the 16 Top 10 singles during Soundscan) didn't reach Gold certification/500.000: Deeper and Deeper, DCFMA and Die Another Day, whereas You Must Love Me which wasn't a Top 10 reach Gold certification
***Hung Up and 4 Minutes, though certified singles, are not considered since they sold mostly digitally


Before Soundscan/1 March 1991 (since 1989 Gold level became 500.000 from 1 million and Platinum level became 1 million from 2 million, so the certifications differ taking into account the date of certification):

Borderline Gold 500.000
LAV Gold 1.000.000
Crazy For You Gold 1.000.000
Angel/ Into the Groove Gold 1.000.000
Papa Don't Preach Gold 500.000
True Blue Gold 500.000
Like A Prayer Platinum 1.000.000
Express Yourself Gold 500.000
Keep It Together Gold 500 000
Vogue 2Platinum 2.000.000
Hanky Panky Gold 500.000
Justify My Love Platinum 1.000.000

Total (going ONLY by certification levels): 10 million
Estimated total: at least 15.000.000 physical singles

***9 Top 10 physical singles (out of the 21 Top 10 singles before Soundscan) didn't reach Gold certification/1.000.000: Lucky Star, Material Girl, Dress You Up, Live To Tell (a #1 single), Open Your Heart, La Isla Bonita, Who's That Girl (a #1 single), Causing A Commotion and the 9th Top 10 physical single Cherish didn't reach the Gold certification for 500.000 this time (since 1989 Gold level became 500.000 from 1 million)
The first 8 Top 10 singles probably didn't even reach 500.000, since they didn't get a Gold certification for 500.000 in the late 90's, like the other Top 10 singles did (Borderline, for example)
Either that, or Warner certified (so much later, in the late 90's/1998) those singles under the old Gold certification (Gold=1.000.000, until 1989) and then all calculations must be redone, which is improbable though

The digital sales of 4 Minutes were calculated only for the top digital track, not adding the different versions/remixes of the song:
4 Minutes - 2.476.000


Overall 4 Minutes US sales:

- over 2.603.641, last reported total (D)
~18.970 (Ph)
Total: over 2.623.000

US Top 1000 songs/ current position:
498. 4 Minutes (feat. Justin Timberlake & Timbaland) - Madonna

Posted by vertobarg on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 15:02pm


RIAA: Madonna: 63.5 Platinum

Posted by vertobarg on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 15:05pm


Madonna have lots of sucess

Posted by vertobarg on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 15:09pm


vertobarg, we don't need this again. The Madonna Wars as Cheesecrop put it occurred about 3 months ago. You're several months behind the times. Please no more Mad Donna. The argument has been beaten to death

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 15:31pm


Single song purchases on subscription services are considered "singles"...does it really take a rocket scientist to figure THAT out...???

These people will come up with anything, but I don't have the energy to waste on it...carry on!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 17:41pm


I'm worried that this vertobarg character might have lit a spark to a fire...

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 18:30pm


Not from me, Brudda!!! Not unless I can learn to say it in some other language...and I only speak English and fluent profanity...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 18:34pm


All right, I'll let everyone in on a little secret...


I'm having a affair with Madonna.

This is the reason I've posted under so many different names & pretended I was somebody else. It's also the reason I let go of the English side of myself this morning (Gitar, you weren't here this morning when I joined the British Empire for a day. See the Fall out Boy page for further details).

I remain your humble servant

Cheesecrop

Prince of Provolone
Count of Cheddar
Sultan of Swiss
Lord of Limburger

Resident Site Zoroastrian
Ruler of the Cult of the Milkshake


Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 18:41pm


Cheesecrop, has QUEEN KELIS abdicated in favor of you?

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 19:02pm


Here you go Madonna fans, here are some sales stats from a real rock band, the greatest progressive hard rock band ever.

As a group, Rush possesses 24 gold records and 14 platinum (3 multi-platinum) records.

According to the RIAA, Rush's sales statistics also place them fourth behind The Beatles,
The Rolling Stones and Aerosmith for the most consecutive gold or platinum albums by a rock band.

Rush also ranks 78th in U.S. album sales with 25 million units.

Although total worldwide album sales are not calculated by any single entity, as of 2004 several industry sources estimated Rush's total worldwide album sales at over 40 million units.

"We're on the train to Bangkok
Aboard the Thailand Express
We'll hit the stops along the way
We only stop for the best"

'Passage To Bangkok'
Rush

C-Ya
SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 20:41pm


Here you go Madonna fans, here are some sales stats from a real rock band, the greatest progressive hard rock band ever.

As a group, Rush possesses 24 gold records and 14 platinum (3 multi-platinum) records.

According to the RIAA, Rush's sales statistics also place them fourth behind The Beatles,
The Rolling Stones and Aerosmith for the most consecutive gold or platinum albums by a rock band.

Rush also ranks 78th in U.S. album sales with 25 million units.

Although total worldwide album sales are not calculated by any single entity, as of 2004 several industry sources estimated Rush's total worldwide album sales at over 40 million units.

"We're on the train to Bangkok
Aboard the Thailand Express
We'll hit the stops along the way
We only stop for the best"

'Passage To Bangkok'
Rush

C-Ya
SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 20:41pm



Dude this post has nothing to do with Madonna. I love Rush, much more then Madonna, but don't be an ass and put stuff like this were it doesn't belong.

Posted by Gassman on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 20:50pm


Thank you for the kind words Gassman,

I saw sales stats from a Madonna fan on this post, so I simply wanted to compare Rush's with hers. Sorry I offended you.

But whats worse than my post (according to you) is your insult to me. Who the hell do you think you are?

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 20:59pm


Cheesecrop, you're having an affair with Madonna??!!??!


Ewwwwwwwwwww

That's disgusting!! I hope she's paying you cuz I wouldn't do that for free that's for sure! Rofl

Posted by Milestones on Sunday, 09.6.09 @ 11:16am


Madonna is the best artist. Ever

Posted by CrippledFence on Friday, 09.11.09 @ 12:47pm


MADONNA IS THE WORST ARTIST IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC SINCE FRANK SINATRA

Posted by OKTOBERFEST on Friday, 09.11.09 @ 16:02pm


Madonna best solo artist ever

Beatles the greatest band ever

Posted by kobirianthesmallutterfencelikelittleapple on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 13:55pm


No, Elvis best solo artist ever.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 14:02pm


I'm getting tired of the same person under about 12 different screen names coming here and making a false statement like "Madonna is the greatest" about 300 times

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 16:32pm


"I'm getting tired of the same person under about 12 different screen names coming here and making a false statement like "Madonna is the greatest" about 300 times"

Madonna is the greatest

Posted by Madonna is the greatest on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 20:27pm


"MADONNA IS THE WORST ARTIST IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC. SHE BLOWS WORSE THAN MY VACUUM AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING"

MADONNA IS THE BIGGEST ARTISTIC GENIUS IN THE HISTORY OF POPULAR MUSIC

Posted by Madonna is the greatest on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 20:35pm


No, Elvis best solo artist ever.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.12.09 @ 14:02pm

You mean that Hillbilly? WRONG


THE WORLDS greatest solo artist and singer!
is Madonna. The world loves her and she loves the world

Posted by rockinsue on Tuesday, 09.29.09 @ 22:57pm


rockinsue...time to go away...NOW!!!! Your comments are getting more ridiculous by the minute, and this is one artist you DON'T want to even remotely compare to Elvis...period...end of story...see you later, alligator...!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.29.09 @ 23:11pm




rockinsue...time to go away...NOW!!!! Your comments are getting more ridiculous by the minute, and this is one artist you DON'T want to even remotely compare to Elvis...period...end of story...see you later, alligator...!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.29.09 @ 23:11pm



I am a little confused by your silly statement...
I am very pleased you know SRV is the Guitar God! To bad you can see the light of Madonna..Most of the world can! From Ethiopia to New York ,she reins, her voice and message is platinum light .. There is no one so blind that can't see! Wake up ! Elvis is old news! After while crocodile .

Posted by rockinsue on Wednesday, 09.30.09 @ 00:08am


I give you two reasons why Madonna should be removed from the HoF:

Brit Spears
Lady GaGa

Having spawned these two disasters, kick Madge out.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 10.3.09 @ 22:21pm


So having spent an hour or so reading that:
-Madonna is a musical genius
-She's more significant than Elvis and the Beatles put together
-She was as much a rock star as anyone
-She was punk rock! Like a Johnny Lydon for women!
-Her music sound originated from early 80s New Wave artists
-She was more of a "cult figure" than a mainstream masses type
-Her motivation for not "playing it safe" image-wise was concerned more with artistry than generating mass attention through controversy
-She was the first female artist with staying power, or maybe the first after Linda Rondstadt, as females in music were all disposable before them
-She was a trailblazer for female artists in a POSITIVE way (with obviously artistically wonderful and challenging trends being born in her wake)
-It's wrong to describe her as slutty or whorish! Sure she may have deliberately sold on image almost solely around pushing boundaries of sexual vulgarity, and her numerous affairs may have been fairly infamously documented and all that. But you would never call ELVIS a whore! (Remember HIS sex book, and his onstage masturbation exhibitions and HIS skimpy outfits and nude magazine pictorials??)

I somehow sit here having not chopped a limb off or at least setting my computer to fire. Wonder if I'm not becoming a glutton for punishment.

Posted by jayne on Tuesday, 10.6.09 @ 18:36pm


jayne...that was obviously very painful for you! All I can say is some of us have felt your pain...a little therapy and you'll be fine!!!

Keep Rockin'!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 10.6.09 @ 19:59pm


somehow sit here having not chopped a limb off or at least setting my computer to fire. Wonder if I'm not becoming a glutton for punishment.

Posted by jayne on Tuesday, 10.6.09 @ 18:36pm

Gosh gee jayne .It kinds puts all the women before in a nothing. To bad for Holiday Cline ,Travers, Franklin, Parton, Joplin ,Baez ,Cher ,Turner,king Ronstance,Sainte- Mari.Collins,Slick,James,FITZGERALD, VAUGHAN
Big Mama,PEGGY LEE, Night,Ross ,Wells,Streisand, De- Shannon,Denny,Carpenter,and many more I guess they are just nothing,,a shadow of a crum?
Elvis is just a stepping stone him an that Lennon.... What about Yoko wasn't she a womans trail blazer.. When it was Fab... How about everyones girl next door Annette.. A role model to hard for most to get close to....It is wrong to be GOOD ?.....It is all perspective of what is fresh and what is rotten ..I guess


Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 10.6.09 @ 21:15pm


"It's wrong to describe her as slutty or whorish! Sure she may have deliberately sold on image almost solely around pushing boundaries of sexual vulgarity, and her numerous affairs may have been fairly infamously documented and all that. But you would never call ELVIS a whore! (Remember HIS sex book, and his onstage masturbation exhibitions and HIS skimpy outfits and nude magazine pictorials??)"

It's wrong to call her slutty and whorish because it's profoundly sexist to call a woman a whore for being sexual. And yeah, you wouldn't call Elvis a whore even though he also had numerous documented affairs and pushed the boundaries of what was considered sexually vulgar at the time. Congratulations, you've refuted nothing. Yeah, yeah, sex book, masturbation, blah blah blah -- making an ass of yourself doesn't invalidate your claims to legendary status, because that, again, would invalidate Elvis and pretty much every other rock star that ever existed.

"She was a trailblazer for female artists in a POSITIVE way (with obviously artistically wonderful and challenging trends being born in her wake)"

Sarcasm. Wow, I'm sooooo impressed. I like how you manage to take one of the complicated figures in pop history and deliver one of the most myopic, one-sided, painfully reductive takes on the subject. Anyone can't recognize her profound effect on music, including rock music, simply has no understanding of the subject, and does not have an opinion that's worth anybody's time.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 10.7.09 @ 00:14am


"It's wrong to call her slutty and whorish because it's profoundly sexist to call a woman a whore for being sexual."

Well it's too bad that I'm not the type to be swayed by thought-policing, guilt tactics like these. I'm a woman and I don't find this name-calling to be sexist, but rather calling a spade a spade. We're not talking about someone who was just "being sexual" (and why should that be needed for music?), but someone who's antics was censored numerous times and even brought her near encounters with the law. And this is how she became "Madonna", pretty much.

Now, think of how a whore, by the dictionary definition of the word, gets to be called a whore, if you will.

"And yeah, you wouldn't call Elvis a whore "

See, what I love about when "forward thinking" individuals like yourself complain of sexual double standards is how you're always quick to act like you have others' entire thought processes figured out based on one comment from them. Someone condemns a woman for sexual behavior they don't agree with, and the immediate reaction from your type is to accuse the person of holding men to different standards, without ANY evidence of it in their comments. You don't even at least ASK them first.

"and pushed the boundaries of what was considered sexually vulgar at the time."

Yes, but there's that, and there's basing your career almost entirely off of the "shock" of sexual boundary-pushing. 1950s middle America and their introduction to Rock n Roll was quite a different ballgame. Elvis' act was still obviously quite Christian in retrospect (compared to artists of today at even their most innocent), people generally got over their shock, and he would pretty much be an admired figure more than a reviled one.

As for his questionable personal life, yes, obviously he was no saint, but in his favor he tried to actually keep it personal.

"making an ass of yourself doesn't invalidate your claims to legendary status, because that, again, would invalidate Elvis and pretty much every other rock star that ever existed"

I wasn't saying it invalidates her status as a legend. I was just saying, when you repeatedly engage in behaviors like these you pretty much lose your right to be surprised or offended by being likened to a whore.

"Anyone can't recognize her profound effect on music, including rock music, simply has no understanding of the subject, and does not have an opinion that's worth anybody's time."

Well, too late, you already invested time in my opinion. And since you have, why don't you try and explain this profound positive effect that she had in shaping the music industry? As far as I can see, she was a big star and she violated as many sexual taboos as she could find. Great, but unless you count the unleashing of many Britneys/Christinas/Fergies onto the music world as inspiring positive and challenging trends, I don't see exactly where I'm wrong about her here.

Posted by jayne on Friday, 10.9.09 @ 06:13am


Nice job, jayne...couldn't have said it better myself....

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.9.09 @ 06:27am


All the frustration and rage boiling within her poured into the choking bodies around her. Savous sighed, closing his eyes and sinking against the rock wall behind him. They had fought about it too often for Eyrhaen not to know what he meant. She wanted to lash out at Nialdlye, but that was wrong. Rocks and debris filled them still, but she had done what shed come to do. If youre tired, perhaps we should rearrange for another time with Hyle and Gala. Tossing her ponytail behind her shoulders, Eyrhaen got to her knees and crawled forward. She had given them a gift, and they were proud of—worried for—her. What was that swelling feeling deep inside her chest? Big fingers cupped her chin, tilted her face up. His hand trailed up her bare arm, causing gooseflesh. She cant make it easy, can she? Oh yes, this was right. Her breath caught, the tiny, virgin bud of her ass clenching at the thought. None of the others had been carved to look like a reedy young tree. Except that she is not a goddess and could not have maintained such power. He shared in her laughter, and she gloried at how easy it was. There should be more of you in this world. He weighed her breasts with his palms, squeezing gently.

Posted by phateeshacy on Sunday, 02.28.10 @ 15:09pm


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Posted by on Monday, 03.1.10 @ 23:55pm


I kind of stumbled on this site by accident, and I do realize that some of the comments on here are more than two years old. I could care less either way that Madonna was inducted into the hall of fame--more power to her. However, someone mentioned Madonna was the first female artist to incorporate dance and theatrics into her live shows. Well, to the person who said that, if you're still reading, have you not heard of Kate Bush? She was doing that on her Tour of Life back in 1979. She was the first artist to ever wear a wireless headset, especially made for her, JUST so that she could incorporate those respective elements into her live show. Oh, and it was all 100% live singing.

Posted by KC on Saturday, 04.10.10 @ 09:51am


Madonna did as much for rock & roll as B. Marley did for heavy metal.

Posted by Johnny J on Monday, 04.12.10 @ 11:28am


Adding to KC's post Bette Midler was way ahead of Madonna in the theatrics department.

Posted by Johnny J on Monday, 04.12.10 @ 11:32am


One of the worst inductions EVER!! When I heard she was inducted I started thinking of all the groups who are not in and what has the Hall sunk to!! I do not believe she is worthy of induction!! Absolute terrible pick!

Posted by GARY BRYANT on Thursday, 08.12.10 @ 12:16pm


"Rank // Year 1rst Album/Last Album / Artist / Total sales
1 // 1963 1970 Beatles - 92,500,000
2 // 1973 1995 Queen - 80,050,000
3 // 1983 2005 Madonna - 74,600,000 [incl. 1M for Hard Candy]
4 // 1979 2001 Michael Jackson - 70,200,000 [incl. 1M for Thriller 25]"

Hmmm... interesting. I reckon Elvis would've got on there if he'd been able to tour places like the UK.

"This induction pretty much kills any remaining credibility the RRHOF was holding on to. They've consistently denied induction for various quality 80s rock acts because they were supposedly too corporatey and relied too much on studio production. Then they go and pull this shit. Madonna is nothing more than a pathetic talentless whore put on by a label. Yeah, she's influential alright. Think of all the great disgruintled ex-mouskateers she blazed a trail for. What would we have done without the Madonna copycats like Britney who are just as fake as she is? Whatever three-ring circus Jann Wnner is running doesn't deserve to be called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame" - Eddie

The only one of those bands I'll agree with you on is Journey. Now, if we just stick to the 80's, then I would've put in first, to make it short:

-Judas Priest
-Rush
-Iron Maiden
-Motorhead
-New Order
-The Cure
-Metallica (eventually inducted)
-Sonic Youth
-Husker Du
-The Replacements
-Joy Division
-Beastie Boys

That'll do for now. That said, influence is influence. I wouldn't have put her in first-ballot, but I can't really complain too much about her induction. Oh and no, she is nowhere near the all-time greats/an A-list artist.

"1. Madonna
2. Run-DMC
3. Miles Davis
4. Leonard Cohen
5. Jann Wenner
6. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five
7. The Sex Pistols
8. Isaac Hayes
9. Patti Smith
10. Earth, Wind & Fire
11. Prince
12. Bonnie Raitt
13. Paul McCartney
14. Sly & The Family Stone
15. George Harrison"

I agree with a couple of those names, but what exactly makes the others not worthy? The presence of the Pistols and Prince alone makes the entire list worthless. Maybe this list can top my "Worst Lists ever" list. Where is Percy Sledge on that list? Why is Prince on the list and not Michael Jackson? Ass.

Posted by Sam on Saturday, 01.1.11 @ 14:45pm


You think Earth, Wind & Fire and Sly & The Family Stone belong on a worst inductees? Good lord they were a triumph, especially considering how the hall refuses to honor worthy 70s R&B acts like the Commodores and The Spinners and keeps trying to get Chic in instead, the Hall actually had some sense on their induction.

I agree with you on the Beatles solo careers though, although I would include Lennon on that list.

Posted by Jim on Saturday, 01.1.11 @ 15:03pm


*worst inductees list. That post made me type too fast in a furious rage lol

Posted by Jim on Saturday, 01.1.11 @ 15:04pm


That wasn't me, I noticed that list, reposted it and responded to it.

Posted by Sam on Thursday, 01.20.11 @ 13:05pm


Breakfast Club

Posted by Roy on Friday, 09.16.11 @ 10:12am


Roy,

One song you overlooked was Madonna's "Borderline." It follows the same pattern as Stephanie Mills' "Never Knew Love Like This Before" where the keyboard plays a prelude before the band starts. But the difference between "Borderline" and "Never Knew Love Like This Before" is that the keyboard intro preludes the chorus section whereas in "Never Knew Love Like This Before" and "You Are My Lady" the keyboard intro preludes the verses.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Monday, 10.17.11 @ 00:24am


Borderline was written and produced by Reggie Lucas who co-wrote and co-produced the Mill's song. So the connection is not a coincidence.

Posted by astrodog on Monday, 10.17.11 @ 17:34pm


Those tracks have similarities, but they are distinguishable from each other. Love "Never Knew Love Like This Before," but "Borderline" is the bigger classic.

LOL @ Madonna detractors. It must irk them and get right under their skin that she is given so much respect and reverence and she and her work have enjoyed such acclaim. I'm concerned- surely there must be a support group for people with such issues?

BTW- Super Bowl halftime is official. Her Madgesty is going to rock it like few others can.

Posted by JR on Monday, 12.5.11 @ 12:25pm


Meh, I disagree JR. Judging by some of the comment's here I'd say Madonna fans are also in serious need of a support group as well (not all of them, but some of them....Dear Lord).

Posted by Tahvo Parvianen on Monday, 12.5.11 @ 13:33pm


Ignore that apostrophe in "comments"

Posted by Tahvo Parvianen on Monday, 12.5.11 @ 13:34pm


Madonna's fans are an interesting lot. Her fame is secure but they still manage to be perpetually pissed off, which I find very entertaining. It's just a subjective impression, but they win hands down for most embittered fan base. Why? Beats me. But at least they get to see her lip-synch at the SB. Actually the acoustics are always atrocious, so that isn't a bad idea, as the BEPs learned.

Posted by astrodog on Monday, 12.5.11 @ 14:19pm


As expected, Her Madgesty rocked the Super Bowl halftime show. Further securing (as if she needed to) her place as the most important and revered female performer of the last 30 years (and beyhond).

C'mon, VOGUE... :-)

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 02.8.12 @ 10:51am


Hey JR, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel.

Posted by Tahvo Parvianen on Wednesday, 02.8.12 @ 12:40pm


I dont know what halftime show you were watching but I thought it sucked.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 02.8.12 @ 14:28pm


As expected, she lip-synched. I at least give the BEPs marks for actually trying.

Posted by astrodog on Wednesday, 02.8.12 @ 16:20pm


Madonna is the most amazing artist of all time :)

she deserves to be here, she has sold 300 million albums and is still selling out the biggest stadiums in the world! <3

no other artist who has had that much success is still going..

Posted by cloud on Thursday, 09.6.12 @ 15:32pm


I like Madonna but often feel her greatness is overstated. She is sure marketable and influential but so many artists she's influenced are TERRIBLE.

I think her works from 1983-1990 are pretty solidly awesome. I feel like 1997-2001 was kind of her resurgence of good music, but i think despite those two periods she has mainly just wallowed in her own praise.

Posted by Erock on Tuesday, 06.11.13 @ 15:10pm


"but i think despite those two periods she has mainly just wallowed in her own praise."

And in her own press.

Posted by X on Saturday, 03.8.14 @ 07:59am


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